---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/18/13: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:45 AM - Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question (Sacha) 2. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question (Dave Saylor) 3. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Copper Foil width for VOR antenna (Lynn Cole) 4. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question (Jeff Luckey) 5. 11:04 AM - elec. noise in antennas (Fred Klein) 6. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question (John W Livingston) 7. 12:19 PM - Re: elec. noise in antennas (Tim Andres) 8. 02:08 PM - Re: elec. noise in antennas (Fred Klein) 9. 02:13 PM - Switch question (John Evens) 10. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question (Sacha) 11. 04:41 PM - Re: elec. noise in antennas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 04:47 PM - Re: Switch question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 04:57 PM - Re: Switch question !!!OOPS!!!! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 06:08 PM - Re: elec. noise in antennas (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:33 AM PST US From: "Sacha" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question I recently bought a new wire stripper from Klein Tools: http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-11063-Katapult-Stripper/dp/B0035KF232 It's a pretty standard one-squeeze unit with very good quality. I bought mine from the local electrical wholesaler for about $25. A word of caution - it is fairly easy to nick the copper w/ these. You must be careful to CENTER the wire in the proper cutting slot for your size wire. Very often I strip wire using the slot for the next size up wire. In other words, when stripping 22 AWG wire, I put it in the #20 slot. When you get good at using this tool it is very fast. Replacement blades are about $15. All-in-all a good tool at a good value. Hi Jeff, I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and then the "claws" then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand. Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn't do that? Sacha ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question From: Dave Saylor I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section. > Hi Jeff,**** > > I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to use it > because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips the insulation > off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I fin d > that it holds onto the insulated part and then the =9Cclaws =9D then ruin the > copper strands by squashing them. Its nothing major, but then I have to go > and twist the strands together again by hand.**** > > Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn =99t do > that?**** > > Sac > > *_* > > -- --Dave Saylor ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:35 AM PST US From: Lynn Cole Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Copper Foil width for VOR antenna Why not use some fiberglas to laminate the sheath into the wing in the position where you want it? ----- Lynn Cole LynnCole@foxvalley.net On Oct 16, 2013, at 6:27 PM, p32gxy wrote: > > I am loving the idea of a protective sheath/tube to achieve mechanical isolation... > Unfortunately, i don't see how I can make use of this approach without either drilling holes in the spar or messing up the wing's shape/airflow > > The VOR antenna I can install has to be flat so that it integrates into the wing surface. Don't want to be compromising the wing skin... moving the antenna is also not an option because the only place I can keep the tips away from "metal" antennae like structures is in the outboard 1/3 of the wing. > > I am all open to suggestions and will consider anything and everything including novel designs and unusual shapes as I am finding that the 22.8" per leg of the V shaped antennae is hard to place without interference.... please keep them comming. > > Thx. > > > nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: >> At 04:26 PM 10/15/2013, you wrote >> The problem with embedded antennas is the potential for >> fatigue failure of the conductors if the composite >> structure flexes. This can produce hairline fractures >> in foil or wire antennas bonded to a composite surface. It can >> make your antenna conductors look like the wires in a strain >> guage . . . that stretch and compress as the surface responds >> to structure flexing. >> >> RF bandwidth of the wider foil is attractive but as mentioned >> here, insignificant with respect to performance. Consider an >> ALL COAX antenna assembly. Balun is optional . . . cool >> but performance difference is very small. Making the >> antenna elements from coax braid FLOATING INSIDE a piece of 1/4" >> Nylon tubing will get you a simple antenna material, >> adequate performance and the tubing isolates the antenna >> from structure so that flexing doesn't mechanically irritate >> the elements. >> >> >> Bob . . . > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410717#410717 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:38 AM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question =0A=0AI've not had that problem, but the suggestion below is probably a goo d one.=C2- Also, I always give the strands of a freshly stripped end a go od twisting - it makes insertion into the wire terminal easier.=C2- I'm n ot aware of any settings or adjustments on the tool that would help.=0A=0A =0A-J=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Dave Saylor =0ATo: "aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:21 AM=0ASub ject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has questio n=0A =0A=0A=0AI know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you=C2-just=C2-release the handles a little more slowly th at the grip=C2-will release the wire before the blades can smack the fres hly stripped section.=C2-=0AHi Jeff,=0A>I bought the same tool a few mont hs ago.=C2- But I am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty in usi ng it properly: it strips the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated p art and then the =9Cclaws=9D then ruin the copper strands by sq uashing them. =C2-Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands together again by hand.=0A>Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it doesn=99t do that?=0A>Sac=0A>_ =0A=0A-- =0A--Dav ======================== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:44 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: AeroElectric-List: elec. noise in antennas All, I have been diligent in separating antenna wiring from power wiring...in my fiberglass airframe, I molded in conduits along the sides of the fuselage...all power wiring on the port side...antenna wiring and pneumatics on starboard. My port conduit is getting pretty filled, and I have ample space in the stbd conduit. With my batteries mounted aft, I have 2AWG feed to the starter and a 2 AWG ground wire from battery to engine. So here's a question: Since the feed to the starter is only passing current when the starter contactor is closed, can I run its feed along w/ my RG58 com and xpndr antenna wires?...or will the mere presence of the starter feed (all that metal!) alongside the antenna wires degrade my reception and transmissions? And...am I correct in reasoning that the 2AWG ground wire definitely needs to stay away from those antenna wires? thanks for your insights, Fred ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:40 AM PST US From: John W Livingston Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp terminal. Better gas tight crimp. JWL On 10/18/2013 1:39 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: > > I've not had that problem, but the suggestion below is probably a good > one. Also, I always give the strands of a freshly stripped end a good > twisting - it makes insertion into the wire terminal easier. I'm not > aware of any settings or adjustments on the tool that would help. > > -J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Dave Saylor > *To:* "aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 7:21 AM > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee > has question > > I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that > if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the > grip will release the wire before the blades can smack the freshly > stripped section. > > Hi Jeff, > I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I am reluctant to > use it because I have difficulty in using it properly: it strips > the insulation off the wire fine, but when I open the handles to > release the wire, I find that it holds onto the insulated part and > then the claws then ruin the copper strands by squashing them. > Its nothing major, but then I have to go and twist the strands > together again by hand. > Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to set it so it > doesnt do that? > Sac > > *_ > * > > > -- > --Dave Saylor > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: elec. noise in antennas From: Tim Andres Is this a pusher with the engine and battery aft? In either case, some separation is good insurance, more is better where possible. Less so if your using good coax like RG 400. I'd suggest just do the best you can to keep them apart at least a couple of inches. The 2AWG ground will be busy when you crank like you said, but if you have an alternator or electronic ignition or engine monitoring system it could have 30-40 amps on it at times after start, probably 8-12 or so on it after the battery is charged. I'd still keep apart as far as is reasonably possible. Just one opinion... Tim All spelling errors are Apples responsibility. > On Oct 18, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Fred Klein wrote: > > > All, > > I have been diligent in separating antenna wiring from power wiring...in my fiberglass airframe, I molded in conduits along the sides of the fuselage...all power wiring on the port side...antenna wiring and pneumatics on starboard. > > My port conduit is getting pretty filled, and I have ample space in the stbd conduit. > > With my batteries mounted aft, I have 2AWG feed to the starter and a 2 AWG ground wire from battery to engine. > > So here's a question: > > Since the feed to the starter is only passing current when the starter contactor is closed, can I run its feed along w/ my RG58 com and xpndr antenna wires?...or will the mere presence of the starter feed (all that metal!) alongside the antenna wires degrade my reception and transmissions? > > And...am I correct in reasoning that the 2AWG ground wire definitely needs to stay away from those antenna wires? > > thanks for your insights, > > Fred > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:19 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: elec. noise in antennas On Oct 18, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Tim Andres wrote: > Is this a pusher with the engine and battery aft? Tim...to clarify, my engine is a tractor (forward) w/ battery aft...Fred ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:18 PM PST US From: "John Evens" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch question I purchased some very nice DC-rated Mil-spec Honeywell switches (#MS24523-23) to use as ignition switches with my Rotax powered Kitfox. In checking the spec sheet after the fact, I see that they have "silver cadmium oxide" contacts. Then there is a statement that "non-arcing loads (generally less than 12v & 0.5 amps) are not recommended" with silver cadmium oxide contacts. Can anyone tell me if using these style switches with the silver cadmium oxide points, for ignition (or master switches with the DPDT version), would be acceptable & prudent? John Evens ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question From: Sacha > I believe its better not to twist the wires before insertion into a crimp t erminal. Better gas tight crimp. Yup. Also better not to touch the strands if you're going to be soldering. A t least according to the NASA guide. >> >> I know exactly the problem you're describing. I think you'll find that if you just release the handles a little more slowly that the grip will releas e the wire before the blades can smack the freshly stripped section. I tried doing it slower but had no success. I'll give it another try when do wn at the hangar again. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: elec. noise in antennas At 01:04 PM 10/18/2013, you wrote: > >All, > >I have been diligent in separating antenna wiring from power >wiring...in my fiberglass airframe, I molded in conduits along the >sides of the fuselage...all power wiring on the port side...antenna >wiring and pneumatics on starboard. > >My port conduit is getting pretty filled, and I have ample space in >the stbd conduit. There is no demonstrable value in separating antenna coax wires and other ship's wiring. The idea that 'noise' escapes ships wiring to invade the inner-sanctum of your coax is a poplar myth morphed into sage advice. >With my batteries mounted aft, I have 2AWG feed to the starter and a >2 AWG ground wire from battery to engine. How do you know htat you need 2AWG feeders? How long are your battery-to-firewall runs? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:09 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch question At 04:12 PM 10/18/2013, you wrote: >I purchased some very nice DC-rated Mil-spec Honeywell switches >(#MS24523-23) to use as ignition switches with my Rotax powered >Kitfox. In checking the spec sheet after the fact, I see that they >have "silver cadmium oxide" contacts. Then there is a statement that >"non-arcing loads (generally less than 12v & 0.5 amps) are not >recommended" with silver cadmium oxide contacts. Can anyone tell me >if using these style switches with the silver cadmium oxide points, >for ignition (or master switches with the DPDT version), would be >acceptable & prudent? > > John Evens Yes, I don't understand that admonition in in the spec sheet. Did you find that on the 'net? Very few applications for toggle switches are free of arcing. The degree by which arcing is generated can be all over the map but in your airplane, the worst case loads that might exist . . . paired with the exceedingly low duty cycle for switches in light aircraft do not pose any threat of premature failure due to overloading. Can you sent me a copy of the spec sheet or a link for downloading it? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:38 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch question !!!OOPS!!!! At 04:12 PM 10/18/2013, you wrote: >I purchased some very nice DC-rated Mil-spec Honeywell switches >(#MS24523-23) to use as ignition switches with my Rotax powered >Kitfox. In checking the spec sheet after the fact, I see that they >have "silver cadmium oxide" contacts. Then there is a statement that >"non-arcing loads (generally less than 12v & 0.5 amps) are not >recommended" with silver cadmium oxide contacts. Can anyone tell me >if using these style switches with the silver cadmium oxide points, >for ignition (or master switches with the DPDT version), would be >acceptable & prudent? > > John Evens Yes, I don't understand that admonition in in the spec sheet. Did you find that on the 'net? Very few applications for toggle switches are free of arcing. The degree by which arcing is generated can be all over the map but in your airplane, the worst case loads that might exist . . . paired with the exceedingly low duty cycle for switches in light aircraft do not pose any threat of premature failure due to overloading. Can you sent me a copy of the spec sheet or a link for downloading it? Had a momentary case of keyboard-in-mouth disease. Meeting design life with switches/relays with silver-cad ASSUMES some degree of arcing to help burn away corrosion. Non-Arcing is sometimes referred to as 'dry contact' switching too. Switches/ and relays working in these tiny loads generally have gold plated contacts . . . no corrosion . . . but don't hit them with an arcing load or you burn away the gold and convert the thing to a really bad, dry-circuit switch. Short answer is yes, those switches are entirely suitable for use on your airplane. There is a very SMALL possibility that they'll 'go open' because they're not used enough . . . I.e. a special application switch that is not routinely used. Found this in a Beechjet once. It was in some kind of seldom used press to test function. The tech was headed off the stockroom to get a new switch. I told him to hold off. Got a bench supply that I set up for 28v at 3A constant current and used the open swicth to 'short out' the power supply. I wiggled the switch a couple dozen times and rechecked it with a micro-ohmmeter. Contacts were restore to like new. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:40 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAA SPORTAIR Workshop attendee has question >Hi Jeff, >I bought the same tool a few months ago. But I >am reluctant to use it because I have difficulty >in using it properly: it strips the insulation >off the wire fine, but when I open the handles >to release the wire, I find that it holds onto >the insulated part and then the =9Cclaws=9D then >ruin the copper strands by squashing them. Its >nothing major, but then I have to go and twist >the strands together again by hand. >Do you have the same problem? Is there a way to >set it so it doesn=99t do that? >Sac Emacs! The tool you linked is a clone of the Ideal Industries Stripmaster. I have excerpted a few parts from the spare parts catalog. Check your tool for Item 8 and it's associated spring Item 9. If the spring is too weak or missing, you will experience the late release phenomenon you describe. On old tools, the cam-notch in the latch wears and can cause the same problem. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:13 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: elec. noise in antennas On Oct 18, 2013, at 4:40 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> With my batteries mounted aft, I have 2AWG feed to the starter and a 2 AWG ground wire from battery to engine. > > How do you know htat you need 2AWG feeders? > How long are your battery-to-firewall runs? Bob...thanks for asking... I don't in fact "know" that I need 2 AWG feeders...I used that size solely for the purpose of emphasizing that the problem I was facing was caused by some VERY large wires; I note however that Z-19RB calls for 2AWG feeder from battery contactor to starter contactor. My "battery-to-firewall runs" are exactly 9 feet; firewall to starter is another 3 to 4 feet. Fred PS: Thanks for dispelling one more myth! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.