Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:08 AM - Re: Charging the Aux Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 02:19 AM - Re: Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:29 AM - Re: Contactors (Bill Allen)
4. 08:56 AM - King KT78 Manual (Jay Hyde)
5. 09:31 AM - Transponder Interference with Icom A-22 Comm Radio (djtoddb)
6. 12:31 PM - Harbor Freight sells the big switches too (cardinalnsb)
7. 02:35 PM - Re: Contactors (jan)
8. 04:12 PM - Re: King KT78 Manual (Jerald Folkerts)
9. 04:57 PM - Re: King KT78 Manual (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:23 PM - Re: Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 05:30 PM - Re: Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 09:30 PM - Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
13. 11:39 PM - Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! (Bob Verwey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Charging the Aux Battery |
At 11:41 AM 10/1/2013, you wrote:
><trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>
>Bob
>
>Thank you for the dissertation about the theme I had proposed.
>I confess that I still didn't read it thoroughly, so I will have to digest
>it conveniently.
>
>Meanwhile, I can confirm that my question was not academic, I am building an
>RV-10 and did consider the Dual battery, One main Alternator - one Aux
>alternator system.
>
>So far, I am considering a variation of the Z-14 architecture, but still
>didn't reach the "end of the line" in what regards the final schematic, so
>would appreciate all suggestions.
Okay, start with Z-14 and tell us what you would
do differently and why that seems to be a good idea.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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This then opens up the possibility of removing the 40amp alternator
from the aft of my Lycoming (worst place for weight on a pusher) and
replacing it with a 20amp unit in place of one magneto, and with a
(B&C SD20) 20amp unit, one scrutinises all consumers to reduce
appetites where possible.
The B&C 20A machine drives from a vacuum
pump pad. I don't think you want to replace
any magnetos with other than an electronic
ignition.
While populating my electrical load schedule, I was taken aback to
see that the master contactor takes a constant 2amps. That would make
it the most hungry consumer of watts in my aircraft, 10% of my
alternators output going to keep the master latched.
Actually, it's more like 1 amp cold and drops to about
.6 amps warm for a Cole-Hersee contactor. See
http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
Thus I'm struggling to see why I should not use a mechanical master
along the lines of that suggested by Eric;
(http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0015/s0001/FR1013)
particularly as I'm at the "clean sheet" stage. And I've had an
electrical master fail on a certified aircraft (PA30).
That works too. The Piper Pacer and Tri-Pacers
were originally fitted with manual battery switches
and starter push-buttons.
How did the contactor fail . . . and how did
you become aware of the failiure? If your
system is architectured for failure tolerance,
a contactor failure is not an emergency; only
a maintenance event.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply.
1. Yes, well caught, the B&C SD20 fits on the vacpad not the mag location.
My mis-type. - trying to colour in one point (the draw of the master relay)
and not paying attention to the details. I'm using a Pmag-E and an
LSEas ignition systems.
2. Your tests showing the real draw on the master solenoid are very
revealing, presuming that the master solenoid I have from Aircraft Spruce (
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php?clickkey=10293
) is
a Cole-Hersee - I'm unfamiliar with the term but gather from googling that
they are to solenoids what Hoover is to vacuum cleaners.
However, 0.8amps is still almost the equivalent of a Garmin 430 (0.2a stby),
Funkwerk Com (0.1a stby),DynonXPDR-262 (0.15a stby) and AeroLED
Navlights(0.4a). All are "brochure figures" unless I've misread them.
3. The failure I experienced on my PA30 was on the ground. I found a
totally dead system with a good battery, and traced it quickly to the
master relay not activating. A new unit fixed it, and upon stripping the
old one, I found moisture penetration of the internals to be the cause.
Cleaning it up got it working again, but not to the point that I wanted to
risk the disruption it could cause if it failed again.
Had it failed in flight I would not have lost engine power, but would have
lost all ships power, unless there is an e-bus on a 1966 PA30 that I'm not
aware of, which is possible.
If you'd like me to mail it to you for dissection, I can do that.
4. What I've learnt from this (ie, point 2 above) is to actually measure
the current used by each of the consumers one plans to use. If the
acceptance of 2amps for the master relay (but actually 0.8amps) is read
across in this way for all other units, it's easily possible to end up with
an alternator, wires, switches, fuses etc all way oversize and overweight.
regards,
Bill Allen
On 29 October 2013 11:18, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**>
>
>
> This then opens up the possibility of removing the 40amp alternator from
> the aft of my Lycoming (worst place for weight on a pusher) and replacing
> it with a 20amp unit in place of one magneto, and with a (B&C SD20) 20amp
> unit, one scrutinises all consumers to reduce appetites where possible.
>
> The B&C 20A machine drives from a vacuum
> pump pad. I don't think you want to replace
> any magnetos with other than an electronic
> ignition.
>
>
> While populating my electrical load schedule, I was taken aback to see
> that the master contactor takes a constant 2amps. That would make it the
> most hungry consumer of watts in my aircraft, 10% of my alternators output
> going to keep the master latched.
>
> Actually, it's more like 1 amp cold and drops to about
> .6 amps warm for a Cole-Hersee contactor. See
>
> http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
> http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
>
>
> Thus I'm struggling to see why I should not use a mechanical master along
> the lines of that suggested by Eric; (http://www.flamingriver.com/**
> index.php/products/c0015/**s0001/FR1013<http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0015/s0001/FR1013>)
> particularly as I'm at the "clean sheet" stage. And I've had an electrical
> master fail on a certified aircraft (PA30).
>
> That works too. The Piper Pacer and Tri-Pacers
> were originally fitted with manual battery switches
> and starter push-buttons.
>
> How did the contactor fail . . . and how did
> you become aware of the failiure? If your
> system is architectured for failure tolerance,
> a contactor failure is not an emergency; only
> a maintenance event.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | King KT78 Manual |
Does anyone have a copy of the King KT78 manual and or pinouts?
I tried a google search and came across a link to one at www.gobookee.org
but they want a 'credit card verification' to download a 'free' document and
I'm suspicious. J
Alternatively, does anyone have any experience with gobookee?
Johannesburg Jay
Message 5
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| Subject: | Transponder Interference with Icom A-22 Comm Radio |
I just installed a Sandia Transponder with an Icom A-22 handheld radio hard wired
into the electrical system. On the first flight, ATC had a difficult time
understanding me and I heard "clicks" in then headset while receiving. Not knowing
if it was RF interference from the transponder OR feedback from the aircraft
12 volt power system, I removed the hard wire power from the radio and used
the battery pack... Everything worked great. I even placed the VHF receiver
within a inch of the transponder antenna while it was being interrogated and
it still worked fine.
Seems I am having some strange pulses running through the 12V system while the
transponder is ON because it is eliminated when I remove acft power from it and
use the battery pack.
QUESTION - Is there something I can do or install that will isolate electrically
the Comm Radio from getting this feedback from the transponder OR is there something
I can add to the Transponder Power feed?
--------
Titan Tornado II with Jab 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411680#411680
Message 6
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| Subject: | Harbor Freight sells the big switches too |
"Harbor Freight sells the big switches too. Roll your own actuator."
The one I bought at HF was of poor quality and I would not use it on a motorhome.
Skip Simpson
Message 7
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What about using a Kilovac EV200 with a circuit saver ? Any experience with
them ?? They pull in under high A.. then the circuit saver lowers the
current to hold the relay closed... (but I am told the circuit saver is
'noisy' ... i.e. lots of EMC ...)
Anyone have any comments ??
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Allen
Sent: 29 October 2013 13:28
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply.
1. Yes, well caught, the B&C SD20 fits on the vacpad not the mag location.
My mis-type. - trying to colour in one point (the draw of the master relay)
and not paying attention to the details. I'm using a Pmag-E and an LSE as
ignition systems.
2. Your tests showing the real draw on the master solenoid are very
revealing, presuming that the master solenoid I have from Aircraft Spruce
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php?clickkey=1029
3
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php?clickkey=1029
3> ) is a Cole-Hersee - I'm unfamiliar with the term but gather from
googling that they are to solenoids what Hoover is to vacuum cleaners.
However, 0.8amps is still almost the equivalent of a Garmin 430 (0.2a stby),
Funkwerk Com (0.1a stby),DynonXPDR-262 (0.15a stby) and AeroLED Navlights
(0.4a). All are "brochure figures" unless I've misread them.
3. The failure I experienced on my PA30 was on the ground. I found a totally
dead system with a good battery, and traced it quickly to the master relay
not activating. A new unit fixed it, and upon stripping the old one, I found
moisture penetration of the internals to be the cause. Cleaning it up got it
working again, but not to the point that I wanted to risk the disruption it
could cause if it failed again.
Had it failed in flight I would not have lost engine power, but would have
lost all ships power, unless there is an e-bus on a 1966 PA30 that I'm not
aware of, which is possible.
If you'd like me to mail it to you for dissection, I can do that.
4. What I've learnt from this (ie, point 2 above) is to actually measure the
current used by each of the consumers one plans to use. If the acceptance of
2amps for the master relay (but actually 0.8amps) is read across in this way
for all other units, it's easily possible to end up with an alternator,
wires, switches, fuses etc all way oversize and overweight.
regards,
Bill Allen
On 29 October 2013 11:18, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >
wrote:
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >
This then opens up the possibility of removing the 40amp alternator from
the aft of my Lycoming (worst place for weight on a pusher) and replacing it
with a 20amp unit in place of one magneto, and with a (B&C SD20) 20amp unit,
one scrutinises all consumers to reduce appetites where possible.
The B&C 20A machine drives from a vacuum
pump pad. I don't think you want to replace
any magnetos with other than an electronic
ignition.
While populating my electrical load schedule, I was taken aback to see that
the master contactor takes a constant 2amps. That would make it the most
hungry consumer of watts in my aircraft, 10% of my alternators output going
to keep the master latched.
Actually, it's more like 1 amp cold and drops to about
.6 amps warm for a Cole-Hersee contactor. See
http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo <http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo>
http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t <http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t>
Thus I'm struggling to see why I should not use a mechanical master along
the lines of that suggested by Eric;
(http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0015/s0001/FR1013
<http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0015/s0001/FR1013> )
particularly as I'm at the "clean sheet" stage. And I've had an electrical
master fail on a certified aircraft (PA30).
That works too. The Piper Pacer and Tri-Pacers
were originally fitted with manual battery switches
and starter push-buttons.
How did the contactor fail . . . and how did
you become aware of the failiure? If your
system is architectured for failure tolerance,
a contactor failure is not an emergency; only
a maintenance event.
Bob . . .
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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What about using a Kilovac EV200
with a
circuit saver ? Any experience with them ?? They pull in under
high A.. then
the circuit saver lowers the current to hold the relay closed…
(but I am
told the circuit saver is ‘noisy’ … i.e. lots of EMC
…)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyone have any comments
??<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bill Allen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 29 October 2013
13:28<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">aeroelectric-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re:
AeroElectric-List:
Contactors</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Bob</st1:PersonName>,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks for the reply.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>1. Yes, well caught, the B&C SD20 fits on the vacpad not
the mag
location. My mis-type. - trying to colour in one point (the draw of the
master
relay) and not paying attention to the details. I'm using
a Pmag-E
and an LSE as ignition systems.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>2. Your tests showing the real draw on the master solenoid are
very
revealing, presuming that the master solenoid I have from Aircraft
Spruce (<a
href="http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php?cl
ickkey=10293"
target="_blank">http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterre
lay.php?clickkey=10293</a> ) is
a Cole-Hersee - I'm unfamiliar with the term but gather from googling
that they
are to solenoids what <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Hoover</st1:place></st1:City>
is to vacuum cleaners.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>However, 0.8amps is still almost the equivalent of a Garmin 430
(0.2a
stby), Funkwerk Com (0.1a stby),DynonXPDR-262 (0.15a stby) and AeroLED
Navlights (0.4a). All are "brochure figures" unless I've
misread
them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>3. The failure I experienced on my PA30 was on the ground. I
found a
totally dead system with a good battery, and traced it quickly to the
master
relay not activating. A new unit fixed it, and upon stripping the old
one, I
found moisture penetration of the internals to be the cause. Cleaning
it up got
it working again, but not to the point that I wanted to risk the
disruption it
could cause if it failed again.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Had it failed in flight I would not have lost engine power, but
would
have lost all ships power, unless there is an e-bus on a 1966 PA30 that
I'm not
aware of, which is possible.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>If you'd like me to mail it to you for dissection, I can do
that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>4. What I've learnt from this (ie, point 2 above) is to
actually
measure the current used by each of the consumers one plans to use. If
the
acceptance of 2amps for the master relay (but actually 0.8amps) is read
across
in this way for all other units, it's easily possible to end up with an
alternator, wires, switches, fuses etc all way oversize and
overweight.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Bill Allen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 29 October 2013 11:18, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <<a
href="mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com"
target="_blank">nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
Nuckolls,
III" <<a href="mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com"
target="_blank">nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span
></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
This then opens up the possibility of removing the 40amp
alternator from
the aft of my Lycoming (worst place for weight on a pusher) and
replacing it
with a 20amp unit in place of one magneto, and with a (B&C SD20)
20amp
unit, one scrutinises all consumers to reduce appetites where
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> The B&C 20A machine drives from a vacuum<br>
pump pad. I don't think you want to replace<br>
any magnetos with other than an electronic<br>
ignition.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
While populating my electrical load schedule, I was taken aback to see
that the
master contactor takes a constant 2amps. That would make it the most
hungry
consumer of watts in my aircraft, 10% of my alternators output going to
keep
the master latched.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> Actually, it's more like 1 amp cold and drops to
about<br>
.6 amps warm for a Cole-Hersee contactor. See<br>
<br>
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo"
target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo</a><br>
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t"
target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t</a><o:p></o:p></span></font
></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
Thus I'm struggling to see why I should not use a mechanical master
along the
lines of that suggested by Eric; (<a
href="http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0015/s0001/FR101
3"
target="_blank">http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0015/s
0001/FR1013</a>)
particularly as I'm at the "clean sheet" stage. And I've had
an
electrical master fail on a certified aircraft
(PA30).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:
12.0pt'> That works too. The Piper Pacer and Tri-Pacers<br>
were originally fitted with manual battery switches<br>
and starter push-buttons.<br>
<br>
How did the contactor fail . . . and how did<br>
you become aware of the failiure? If your<br>
system is architectured for failure tolerance,<br>
a contactor failure is not an emergency; only<br>
a maintenance event.<br>
<br>
<br>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bob</st1:PersonName> . . .
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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Message 8
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| Subject: | King KT78 Manual |
Jay,
I have one for KT78A. If you want, send me your email address.
Best,
Jerry Folkerts
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Hyde
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: King KT78 Manual
Does anyone have a copy of the King KT78 manual and or pinouts?
I tried a google search and came across a link to one at www.gobookee.org
but they want a 'credit card verification' to download a 'free' document and
I'm suspicious. J
Alternatively, does anyone have any experience with gobookee?
Johannesburg Jay
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: King KT78 Manual |
At 10:55 AM 10/29/2013, you wrote:
>Does anyone have a copy of the King KT78 manual and or pinouts?
Check here http://tinyurl.com/kcwmt6f
Bob . . .
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At 08:28 AM 10/29/2013, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>Thanks for the reply.
>
>1. Yes, well caught, the B&C SD20 fits on the vacpad not the mag
>location. My mis-type. - trying to colour in one point (the draw of
>the master relay) and not paying attention to the details. I'm
>using a Pmag-E and an LSE as ignition systems.
Okay, you've got a 15a current budget . . . 5A of
rated output should be 'walled off' for battery
recharging in flight . . . and remember, the SD-20
doesn't give you any useful output until you're airborne.
>2. Your tests showing the real draw on the master solenoid are very
>revealing, presuming that the master solenoid I have from Aircraft
>Spruce
>(<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php?clickkey=10293>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php?clickkey=10293
>) is a Cole-Hersee - I'm unfamiliar with the term but gather from
>googling that they are to solenoids what Hoover is to vacuum cleaners.
>However, 0.8amps is still almost the equivalent of a Garmin 430
>(0.2a stby), Funkwerk Com (0.1a stby),DynonXPDR-262 (0.15a stby) and
>AeroLED Navlights (0.4a). All are "brochure figures" unless I've misread them.
So do all the math. Get this form
http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj
and do an inventory of every electrical
load . . . including the battery contactor.
Don't fuss with bus-decisions yet, just
get a read on total loads under various
flight conditions.
>
>3. The failure I experienced on my PA30 was on the ground. I found a
>totally dead system with a good battery, and traced it quickly to
>the master relay not activating. A new unit fixed it, and upon
>stripping the old one, I found moisture penetration of the internals
>to be the cause. Cleaning it up got it working again, but not to the
>point that I wanted to risk the disruption it could cause if it failed again.to
Surely your anticipated system can function
with the battery contactor open . . . whether
it opens from failure or the fact that you
shut it off, getting to an airport of intended
destination shouldn't be a foreboding task.
>Had it failed in flight I would not have lost engine power, but
>would have lost all ships power, unless there is an e-bus on a 1966
>PA30 that I'm not aware of, which is possible.
No, they don't have that feature . . . but if
it were my airplane . . . it would.
Do you have a flight-bag back-up?
http://tinyurl.com/lg3n4gh
>If you'd like me to mail it to you for dissection, I can do that.
Not useful at this stage. The major point is that
it failed on the ground. I won't say that failures
in fight never happen . . . but they are exceedingly
rare. If one has failed in flight, I'd give pretty
good odds that the pilot was 'warned' . . . probably
conducted more than one flight where the contactor
had to be 'jiggered' in some way before the panel lit
up . . . and he doesn't even know what an e-bus is.
I'd also give pretty good odds that the contactor
you replaced had been in service for a considerable
period of time.
I'm supposed to get a networked computer at Cessna
on Monday. I'd should be able to search the archives
for history on part numbers used for both production
and spares on the single engine line going back a
very long way.
>4. What I've learnt from this (ie, point 2 above) is to actually
>measure the current used by each of the consumers one plans to use.
That's never wrong. When you get all the numbers, give
us a list of your findings.
> If the acceptance of 2amps for the master relay (but actually
> 0.8amps) is read across in this way for all other units, it's
> easily possible to end up with an alternator, wires, switches,
> fuses etc all way oversize and overweight.
That's not typical. I've never seen a value greater
than 1.0A assigned to battery contactors on single
engine airplanes. Further, the numbers from installation
manuals on items used in TC aircraft should be golden.
Updating load analysis and weight and balance for
any changes to an airplane is pretty much a given for
which the manufacturer is obligated to support with
good numbers.
Add 'em all up and see if you've busted your 15A
bubble. Running loads only, intermittent loads like
flap motors, trim motors, transmitters, etc are
not significant energy consumers.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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At 04:44 PM 10/29/2013, you wrote:
>What about using a Kilovac EV200 with a circuit
>saver ? Any experience with them ?? They pull
>in under high A.. then the circuit saver lowers
>the current to hold the relay closed=85 (but I am
>told the circuit saver is =91noisy=92 =85 i.e. lots of EMC =85)
>
>Anyone have any comments ??
A fine contactor with a price to match . . .
and yes . . . pwm management of holding
current is not noise free. Most users
have not found the noise to be a problem.
I think I've got an EV200 in the skunk-werks
box of goodies somewhere . . . if I can put
my hands on it, I'll see if I can get the
EMC lab gurus to do a quick conducted survey
on it.
We'll have a contactor-cooler product available
pretty soon. The 9024 4-function module will
include that capability. I'll it checked for
conducted emissions too. The goal would be
to offer a low cost alternative to lowering
operating current (and temperature rise) on
the generic contactors. Reduced operating
temp should improve on what has already been
a good service life.
But aside from weight and cost, the EV200 is
a fine opportunity for increased service life
assuming you find $value$ in the exchange.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! |
Hi group
I'm an idiot. I purchased an Odyssey PC545 a while back and listened
to the distributors rhetoric, blah, blah blah I best buy one of his
magical chargers custom suited for an odyssey battery. Wasn't very
much so I bought one. My battery is aft located on my Europa Monowheel,
so a bit of contortion needed to get to it. No problem. Very early on the
strain relief for the insulation at the charger broke in half, so I was
just measuring the charger output at the break (which is easily located
forward). Today we were working on the flap control and were crawling
around in the back of the aeroplane and decided we should check the
voltage at the battery with the charger connected. The charger was
indicating float (green) and at the forward break in the insulation at
13.54 volts. When we tested at the battery, it was only 12.75 volts?
Closer inspection revealed really poor solder connection to the battery
clamps. There is a plating on the clamps, and the solder never stuck real
well. EZ fix, scratch, mild activated flux and solder. Just a note, best
check charge voltage right at the battery, don't trust a green LED
saying all is well.
Ron Parigoris
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! |
Ron I am busy with a new build and have a similar problem...the battery
voltage at the battery is 13.4 and the MGL Efis shows supply voltage as
12.9. I have checked all feeds and connectors, but cannot isolate the
voltage drop....
Best...
Bob Verwey
On 30 October 2013 06:29, <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
> Hi group
>
> I'm an idiot. I purchased an Odyssey PC545 a while back and listened to
> the distributors rhetoric, blah, blah blah I best buy one of his magical
> chargers custom suited for an odyssey battery. Wasn't very much so I bought
> one. My battery is aft located on my Europa Monowheel, so a bit of
> contortion needed to get to it. No problem. Very early on the strain relief
> for the insulation at the charger broke in half, so I was just measuring
> the charger output at the break (which is easily located forward). Today we
> were working on the flap control and were crawling around in the back of
> the aeroplane and decided we should check the voltage at the battery with
> the charger connected. The charger was indicating float (green) and at the
> forward break in the insulation at 13.54 volts. When we tested at the
> battery, it was only 12.75 volts? Closer inspection revealed really poor
> solder connection to the battery clamps. There is a plating on the clamps,
> and the solder never stuck real well. EZ fix, scratch, mild activated flux
> and solder. Just a note, best check charge voltage right at the battery,
> don't trust a green LED saying all is well.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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