Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:04 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle)
1. 11:06 AM - Re: Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 11:06 AM - Re: Contactors (Sacha)
3. 11:08 AM - Re: Contactors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 11:19 AM - Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:12 PM - Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR (racerjerry)
7. 12:42 PM - Re: Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! (Roger & Jean)
8. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR (Ken)
10. 05:51 PM - When is 2AWG not 2AWG? (donjohnston)
11. 06:39 PM - Re: When is 2AWG not 2AWG? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 06:45 PM - Re: When is 2AWG not 2AWG? (donjohnston)
13. 09:16 PM - Re: Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! (Bob Verwey)
Message 0
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Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
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Message 1
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At 03:16 AM 11/2/2013, you wrote:
><peter@sportingaero.com>
>
>There is a potential problem in using only the starter contactor to
>switch the starter motor power - those contactors are known to
>occasionally weld themselves together. In that case, with only the
>starter contactor switching power to the starter, there is then no
>way of disengaging it from the running engine until the battery is flat
This was a greater risk when starter contactors
were intermittent duty versions of the battery
contactors (large surface area, low pressure).
The modern automotive contactor is a low area,
very high pressure connection. These CAN stick
but probably not if the battery is good. Too
many batteries are flogged until they don't
crank the engine any more . . . they've been
unsuited for use on an airplane for some period
of time before a soggy battery makes a 'soft closure'
of a contactor and causes it to stick.
> (if that ever happens as the starter is now a generator).
Doesn't happen. Every starter has a disconnect
mechanism that prevents a running engine from
back-driving the starter. Consider that a starter
armature runs at or near it's max horsepower rpm
while cranking an engine at ~200 rpm. An engine
running at 2000 rpm would drive a starter at 10x
it's rated running speed . . . throws windings
and/or tears up gearboxes.
> In the UK the authorities insist that a light is installed in the
> panel warning the pilot the starter remains energised, as there
> have been several accidents. The engaged starter saps a large
> amount of power from the engine and gets very hot, with unpleasant
> consequences.
Yes, the starter does continue to run from
due to applied electrical energy. These are
NOT efficient motors. They draw substantial
current even when no mechanically loaded. Given
their design goals for intermittent duty operation,
they simply cannot reject internal heat generated
while running unloaded
Keep the battery in good shape and starter
contactor sticking is very rare. Starter energized
light is a simple hedge against taxiing out with
a starter energized. Having a battery contactor
carry starter current is a pretty cheap insurance.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Being able to pull the mixture control whilst on the ground will stop the
engine from producing power, but if the start motor is still energised due
to the failed contactor, won't it keep cranking until you pull a terminal
off the battery? I'm not that familiar with the starters used in aviation (I
hand-swing my engine), so am unsure if they have a disengage mechanism like
they do on cars.
Hi Etienne,
I'm not really sure either. But in any case it sounds manageable enough
(though maybe expensive if the starter motor gets wrecked) if one is on the
ground.
By the way I stuck a loop-type ammeter on the ground cable today and set it
to the MAX function and then got in and cranked away. I usually put the
electric fuel pump on for 10 seconds before I start the engine and it
usually starts immediately. This time I left the fuel pump off so I needed
to crank the engine four or five times before it started. The maximum
recorded current was 99.6 amps, i.e. 100A. Outside temp was 15C.
I'm thinking that my automotive 70A relay might even take this kind of
current if I decided to run the starter current through it since it's such a
short amount of time. Or I could mount two 70A relays in parallel (total
coil current would still only be 0.7 amps), but honestly I'm not sure it
would be worth the hassle. What do people think?
Sacha
Message 3
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>
>
>I couldn't find anything there unfortunately. The starter motor just
>has one terminal for the fat positive wire.
Rotax starter doesn't have a contactor/solenoid
combo. Rotax uses a simple external contactor
to control power to the motor. The pinion gear
is extended inertially on spiral grooves cut into
the motor shaft.
Recommend you have either a battery contactor
or manually operated battery switch.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR |
At 10:09 AM 11/3/2013, you wrote:
<gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>Can someone give me the (working tip end)
>dimensions of the Bendix/King contact extraction
>tool p/n 047-05099-001 that is used to remove
>contacts p/n 030-01107-00xx as used on KT 76 and
>KX 155. Please =93 no guesses =93 I need a
>caliper on this one. I will be working under extremely difficult
conditions.
>
>Apparently, this tool is also known as Molex p/n HT-1884
>Thank you for your help.
How many terminals do you need to extract?
The tool size is not critical . . . it needs
to fit inside the width of the slot in the
connector housing and be no thicker than the
depth of the slot. It's a thin blade that
is used to depress the retention tang
on the pin.
Emacs!
Unless you have bunch of terminals to pull,
suggest you try a sewing needle inserted into
the center of the slot. The tang is only about
.4" inside and not hard to reach.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! |
At 07:55 AM 11/2/2013, you wrote:
>
>
> > the battery is 13.4 and the MGL Efis shows supply voltage as
> 12.9. I have checked all feeds and connectors, but cannot isolate
> the voltage drop....
>
>Subtracting 12.9 from 13.4 equals 0.5 volts which is the voltage
>drop across a diode. Is the MGL EFIS powered through an E-Bus
>diode? What happens when the E-Bus alternate feed path (if
>installed) is turned on?
>Joe
Excellent question!!!!
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR |
Bob, Thank you for your response. Fortunately, I have only two terminals to extract.
I was hoping to get measurements of the actual tool; especially the blade thickness,
so the contact would release easily, yet I wouldnt have to worry about permanently
deforming the retainer clip. Also, I dont have a spare Bendix/King
card edge connector body to give me the slot width, but I could probably guesstimate
that.
My idea was to cut a sliver of shim stock. Do YOU have a guess as to blade thickness
of this tool?
Yes, I may have to resort to the sewing needle approach, but I dont know if these
old eyes will be able to keep the needle centered in the slot. Besides, trying
different sizes, I can ruin only so many of my wifes sewing needles before
there is hell to pay.
Thanks again,
Jerry King
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412114#412114
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! |
> the battery is 13.4 and the MGL Efis shows supply voltage as
>> 12.9. I have checked all feeds and connectors, but cannot isolate
>> the voltage drop....
Were you able to measure the voltage at the connector going
into the EFIS? If this measures at 13.4V, then you may have
a calibration error in your EFIS.
Roger
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR |
At 02:11 PM 11/4/2013, you wrote:
>
>Bob, Thank you for your response. Fortunately,
>I have only two terminals to extract.
>I was hoping to get measurements of the actual
>tool; especially the blade thickness, so the
>contact would release easily, yet I wouldnt
>have to worry about permanently deforming the retainer clip.
There is possibility of 'flattening' the
clip even when the 'right tool' is used.
I always tweak the clip to increase it's
grip before re-inserting a used terminal
back into the housing.
> Also, I dont have a spare Bendix/King card
> edge connector body to give me the slot width,
> but I could probably guesstimate that.
I don't think I've ever actually measured one.
The last two that I made were fabricated from
flat spring stock cabbaged from a pocket tape
measure. I used a cutoff wheel in a Dremel to
sculpt the material.
Many moons ago I published this offering
Vhttp://tinyurl.com/nknv4bk
I believe these numbers were suited to
the various versions of this pin retention
methodology . . . but that was some time ago.
>Yes, I may have to resort to the sewing needle
>approach, but I dont know if these old eyes
>will be able to keep the needle centered in the
>slot. Besides, trying different sizes, I can
>ruin only so many of my wifes sewing needles before there is hell to pay.
Get your own needles. In fact, I think
sewing machine needles are about the right
thickness and they offer a 'handle' of sorts
on the machine end. Again, a little sculpting
with a Dremel would tailor them to the task.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: CONTACT EXTRACTOR |
I find that one of my very small flat screwdrivers (watchmaker type)
often works well on these types of pins.
Ken
On 04/11/2013 6:50 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 02:11 PM 11/4/2013, you wrote:
>> <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>>
>> Bob, Thank you for your response. Fortunately, I have only two
>> terminals to extract.
>> I was hoping to get measurements of the actual tool; especially the
>> blade thickness, so the contact would release easily, yet I wouldnt
>> have to worry about permanently deforming the retainer clip.
>
> There is possibility of 'flattening' the
> clip even when the 'right tool' is used.
> I always tweak the clip to increase it's
> grip before re-inserting a used terminal
> back into the housing.
>
>> Also, I dont have a spare Bendix/King card edge connector body to
>> give me the slot width, but I could probably guesstimate that.
>
> I don't think I've ever actually measured one.
> The last two that I made were fabricated from
> flat spring stock cabbaged from a pocket tape
> measure. I used a cutoff wheel in a Dremel to
> sculpt the material.
>
> Many moons ago I published this offering
>
> Vhttp://tinyurl.com/nknv4bk
>
> I believe these numbers were suited to
> the various versions of this pin retention
> methodology . . . but that was some time ago.
>
>
>> Yes, I may have to resort to the sewing needle approach, but I dont
>> know if these old eyes will be able to keep the needle centered in the
>> slot. Besides, trying different sizes, I can ruin only so many of my
>> wifes sewing needles before there is hell to pay.
>
> Get your own needles. In fact, I think
> sewing machine needles are about the right
> thickness and they offer a 'handle' of sorts
> on the machine end. Again, a little sculpting
> with a Dremel would tailor them to the task.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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Message 10
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Subject: | When is 2AWG not 2AWG? |
I purchased some 2AWG welding cable from McMaster-Carr. But the 2AWG ring terminals
are too big. After trying all the ring terminals in my collection, the ones
that fit are for 4AWG.
Does welding cable have a smaller diameter than... regular wire?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412123#412123
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: When is 2AWG not 2AWG? |
At 07:51 PM 11/4/2013, you wrote:
>
>I purchased some 2AWG welding cable from McMaster-Carr. But the 2AWG
>ring terminals are too big. After trying all the ring terminals in
>my collection, the ones that fit are for 4AWG.
>
>Does welding cable have a smaller diameter than... regular wire?
The standard for sizing wire is predicated
on the cross-section of copper . . . so a
10AWG SOLID wire will be a tad smaller in
diameter than STRANDED wire due to the
included air-space between strands. As a
general rule, copper wires can be counted
on to be as-advertised. Aluminum wire has a
slightly higher resistance. Assuming that
it is marked for AWG equivalency, then a
2AWG aluminum wire would be decidedly larger
than it's copper cousin.
Terminals are another matter. You cannot
know the tooling for which the terminal was
designed . . . which may indeed bring a
'too big' terminal down to size with the
right squish. So pick the terminal with
the tightest practical fit and then close
the gap with wedges/solder or judicious
application of force.
The 'rating' for wire is more consistent
and reliable than the sizing of terminals.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: When is 2AWG not 2AWG? |
Thanks! :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412126#412126
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Trusting a chargers reputation, what an idiot! |
I run a wire direct from the Bat bus to the EFIS CB (2 amp) then via a
switch to the EFIS. Sooooo, thinking out loud, it can only be the CB or the
switch causing the voltage drop?
My master switch is one of those manual types recently discussed on the
list. All parts brand new, but worth checking! I imagine a .5v volt drop
across the master could turn exiting once the starter starts pulling 200
amps!
Best...
Bob Verwey
On 4 November 2013 21:20, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 07:55 AM 11/2/2013, you wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > the battery is 13.4 and the MGL Efis shows supply voltage as 12.9. I
>> have checked all feeds and connectors, but cannot isolate the voltage
>> drop....
>>
>> Subtracting 12.9 from 13.4 equals 0.5 volts which is the voltage drop
>> across a diode. Is the MGL EFIS powered through an E-Bus diode? What
>> happens when the E-Bus alternate feed path (if installed) is turned on?
>> Joe
>>
>
> Excellent question!!!!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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