Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:43 AM - Re: Carling G-Series switch configuration (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:46 AM - Trim motor speed control (donjohnston)
3. 10:08 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (Tim Andres)
4. 10:18 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:29 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 11:12 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (The Kuffels)
7. 11:45 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:45 PM - Re: wire routing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 01:13 PM - Re: Trim motor speed control (donjohnston)
10. 05:22 PM - Re: Re: Trim motor speed control (The Kuffels)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Carling G-Series switch configuration |
At 09:42 PM 11/13/2013, you wrote:
>
>Here is the link to the Carling G-Series toggle switch data:
>http://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/Carling-TS-G-Series-Ext.pdf
>
>I find the switching descriptions unclear.
>
>I believe a 2GH51-73 is a standard toggle switch, with quick connect
>terminals that operates as an AeroElectric 2-10. Can anyone confirm
>that ?
The 2GH switch is form, fit and function equivalent
to the 2-10 switch. Carling just has a funny (?)
way of describing it's operation which should be
simply described as 2-pole, on-on-on, progressive
transfer.
Emacs!
The isn't clear as to which of the 6 tab positions
on the switch are populated. I'm thinking that a
2GG switch is a 2GH with three of the six tabs simply
left off. Another variation on the theme is the
2GE switch having only 4 tabs . . . two are jumpered
together to fabricate a SP3T operation out of the
box. My guess says you can do any of these three
functions using a GH switch with simple choices
of how the terminals are wired (or not).
I wrote to them about this probably 20 years
ago . . . no response.
Hmmm . . . maybe they did respond and just didn't
tell me about it. Just found this document on Carling
that
http://tinyurl.com/mxv8g2l
This document confirms the suppositions cited
above.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Trim motor speed control |
I have two trim motors that I need to control. The motors provided are 24v motors
(3-5amps). But they are intended for with a 12v electrical system. This is
done because the 12v motors on a 12v system turn too fast and you keep overshooting
when you try to adjust the trim.
This is the elevator trim motor.
http://www.grainger.com/product/WARNER-LINEAR-Linear-Actuator-18G685?s_pp=false
But my electrical system is 24v. Which means the motors will turn too fast. I looked
for 48v versions and they're either too expensive or not available at all.
So I'm going to have to slow down the existing motors. And to that end, I
have come up with 3 possibilities:
1) Put in a DC-DC step down converter. I can get one for about $250. But it is
a rather large box that I'll have to mount somewhere and put in the necessary
breakers and wiring. I may need 14v for other things in the future so this wouldn't
be the worst solution.
http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Step-Down-Conveter-24V-to-13.8-Volts.html
2) I had picked up a motor speed controllers for the heater fan speed controller.
But it's only $10! You know the old saying about something being too good
to be true?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009HKFAIQ/ref=pe_385040_30332190_pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1
3) Finally, I could get a dedicated trim motor controller. But I would need their
"HD" version and I would need two them... at $245 each for a $490 total.
http://www.tcwtech.com/safety_trim.html
I've pretty much removed option #2 because I have to think that there's this $10
solution either generates noise, is unreliable, or... something else.
So the question(s) are: Does anyone have any experience with a situation like this
and if so, which path did you chose? Or does anyone have any opinions on which
would be the best solution? And finally, is there an option that I haven't
considered? (and changing my entire electrical system to 14v is NOT an option)
:)
Thanks,
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413041#413041
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
I would call TCW. I sent my Firgelli linear actuator (pitch trim) to them for approval.
It was rated well over his specification, but in this application never
sees much of a load. He approved it and it I'm using it now.
I would recommend his trim controller for just the stuck trim switch over ride
protection alone. Speed control is also available and 2 speeds if you want that.
I'm not sure if they work with 28 v systems.
Tim
> On Nov 14, 2013, at 9:45 AM, "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have two trim motors that I need to control. The motors provided are 24v motors
(3-5amps). But they are intended for with a 12v electrical system. This is
done because the 12v motors on a 12v system turn too fast and you keep overshooting
when you try to adjust the trim.
>
> This is the elevator trim motor.
> http://www.grainger.com/product/WARNER-LINEAR-Linear-Actuator-18G685?s_pp=false
>
> But my electrical system is 24v. Which means the motors will turn too fast. I
looked for 48v versions and they're either too expensive or not available at
all. So I'm going to have to slow down the existing motors. And to that end,
I have come up with 3 possibilities:
>
> 1) Put in a DC-DC step down converter. I can get one for about $250. But it is
a rather large box that I'll have to mount somewhere and put in the necessary
breakers and wiring. I may need 14v for other things in the future so this wouldn't
be the worst solution.
> http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Step-Down-Conveter-24V-to-13.8-Volts.html
>
> 2) I had picked up a motor speed controllers for the heater fan speed controller.
But it's only $10! You know the old saying about something being too good
to be true?
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009HKFAIQ/ref=pe_385040_30332190_pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1
>
> 3) Finally, I could get a dedicated trim motor controller. But I would need
their "HD" version and I would need two them... at $245 each for a $490 total.
> http://www.tcwtech.com/safety_trim.html
>
> I've pretty much removed option #2 because I have to think that there's this
$10 solution either generates noise, is unreliable, or... something else.
>
> So the question(s) are: Does anyone have any experience with a situation like
this and if so, which path did you chose? Or does anyone have any opinions on
which would be the best solution? And finally, is there an option that I haven't
considered? (and changing my entire electrical system to 14v is NOT an option)
:)
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413041#413041
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
At 11:45 AM 11/14/2013, you wrote:
I have two trim motors that I need to control. The motors provided
are 24v motors (3-5amps). But they are intended for with a 12v
electrical system. This is done because the 12v motors on a 12v
system turn too fast and you keep overshooting when you try to adjust the trim.
This is the elevator trim motor.
http://www.grainger.com/product/WARNER-LINEAR-Linear-Actuator-18G685?s_pp=false
First, why such a 'horse' of an actuator?
What are the force, speed and travel requirements
for moving the trim mechanism on your airplane?
But my electrical system is 24v. Which means the motors will turn too
fast. I looked for 48v versions and they're either too expensive or
not available at all. So I'm going to have to slow down the existing
motors. And to that end, I have come up with 3 possibilities:
With a full load current rating of 2.3A (assuming
that it's moving a 100# load), your voltage
control task is pretty simple. But with a PM motor,
inrush current is pretty high compared to the 2.3A
max running load.
1) Put in a DC-DC step down converter. I can get one for about $250.
But it is a rather large box that I'll have to mount somewhere and
put in the necessary breakers and wiring. I may need 14v for other
things in the future so this wouldn't be the worst solution.'
How about this one?
Rated for 8A (plenty of headroom) but
in addition to an adjustable output voltage
(controls speed) there's an adjustable
current limit (controls inrush).
Use this dc/dc converter upstream of your
dpdt center off polarity control switch.
Set voltage for max desired speed. Then
set the current limit to some benign value
well above max rated load for the actuator . . .
say 3A.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
Emacs!
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
Don,
Agree with the others about the heftiness of your actuators. 100 pounds and
4 inch travel sounds like something for a jet. Finding a lower current
actuator would ease your problem.
But assuming you can't change actuators, here is a full featured 2 axis trim
controller:
Start with the circuit published in the June 2013 issue of Kitplanes
(schematic attached).
Modify the circuit to use an LM338 (40 volt, 5 amp, 7 amp surge, $2.03 from
Mouser) instead of the LM317 shown.
Power the low current logic part of the circuit with a separate regulator
(LM317) set to supply 12 volts. The heat sink specified is more than
adequate for both jobs.
This gives you all the features of the fanciest commercial controllers for
less than $35 in parts.
If you do not have access to the Kitplanes issue email me off list for a set
of figures, photos and text.
Tom
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
My link to the suggested power supply
didn't paste . . . her 'tis again.
> How about this one?
http://tinyurl.com/mk6vs4l
> Rated for 8A (plenty of headroom) but
> in addition to an adjustable output voltage
> (controls speed) there's an adjustable
> current limit (controls inrush).
>
> Use this dc/dc converter upstream of your
> dpdt center off polarity control switch.
> Set voltage for max desired speed. Then
> set the current limit to some benign value
> well above max rated load for the actuator . . .
> say 3A.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>-----
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | re: wire routing |
>
>
> "D" for my routing of panel wires is about 3 inches
> behind the wet compass and remote compass indicator. There are
> lots of small ground wires mixed in with power wires in this
> bundle; some wires go to the switches and instruments and some to
> the ground forest of tabs. Would it help to just wrap the wet
> compass and remote detector with shielding and leave wire routing as is?
Most of the situation you describe does not
raise concerns for large effects on a compass
except wires routed within inches of the
wet compass. While still inside the hangar, you
probably can't gage the effects of these wires.
You will probably have to wait until you get outside.
The magnitude and direction of interference
will vary with orientation of the fuselage
. . . i.e. compass 'heading'.
Back in the old days of panel mounted radios
with harnesses carrying perhaps 5A, it was
not uncommon to see several degrees of error
injected onto a compass reading when a radio was turned
ON/OFF. An SD-20 alternator on the back of an engine
had enough external field leakage to deflect the
magnetic compass 10-15 degrees on some headings.
That was 'fixed' with moving the compass from
a point on the glare shield onto the windshield.
Just raising the compass 12" or so reduced the
effects to 'acceptable'.
There's no way to accurately predict deleterious
effects for the situation you describe . . . it's
a try-it-and-see situation.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
>
> > This is the elevator trim motor.
> > http://www.grainger.com/product/WARNER-LINEAR-Linear-Actuator-18G685?s_pp=false
>
>
> First, why such a 'horse' of an actuator?
> What are the force, speed and travel requirements
> for moving the trim mechanism on your airplane?
>
One word... Canard. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413053#413053
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
Don,
<< why such a 'horse' of an actuator? ... One word... Canard. >>
Must confess to still being confused. My Defiant had very light control
forces which were still heavier than any Eze I've seen. Assume you are
planning to use springs and not aerodynamic trim tabs? Could you supply
more information?
Tom
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