Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:11 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:38 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (donjohnston)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (donjohnston)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: Carling G-Series switch configuration (user9253)
4. 05:57 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (Eric M. Jones)
5. 08:43 AM - Switch S700 2-11 (Mike M)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: Trim motor speed control (Owen Baker)
7. 12:43 PM - Re: Switch S700 2-11 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Trim motor speed control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Trim motor speed control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 01:09 PM - Re: Switch S700 2-11 (Mike M)
11. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Switch S700 2-11 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 11:02 PM - Re: Battery contactor failure (anthonyharding)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
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USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
The aircraft is a Velocity XL. The trim motor is the one supplied by the factory.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413138#413138
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
The aircraft is a Velocity XL. The trim motor is the one supplied by the factory.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413139#413139
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| Subject: | Re: Carling G-Series switch configuration |
2GH _ _ _ _CIRCUIT 1 ON_ _ _ _2 CIRCUITS ON_ _ _ _ CIRCUIT 2 ON
2GG _ _ _ 2 CIRCUITS ON _ _ _ CIRCUIT 1 ON _ _ _ OFF
The above is quoted from the Carlingswitch data sheet.
I interpret this to mean that 2GH is always on, either circuit 1 or circuit 2 is
on, or both are on.
And 2GG is similar to the 2-10 switch. It can be off, or circuit 1 on, or both
circuits 1 & 2 on.
It is hard to know for sure without having the switch in hand.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413141#413141
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
Motor Speed Control--
An important point of trim motor speed controlling is that the torque should not
be reduced when the speed is reduced (in fact, it could go up...but not down).
This makes regular voltage controllers undesirable except where torque isn't
an issue.
The second point is that trim speed should usually be reduced as a function of
airspeed. Often this is critical and can give the pilot sudden difficulties. Tee-ing
off the pitot line and using the pressure signal is easy to do.
Many speed controls use an LM3524 modulating PWM chip and a P-fet to drive the
trim motor that will take a voltage-input based on the pitot pressure. This makes
the motor go faster at slow speeds and slower at high speeds. No input from
the pilot is needed.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413143#413143
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| Subject: | Switch S700 2-11 |
Bob,
I am looking for a switch that has three potions (Off/On/On). B&C has a switch
S700 2-11 which is shown as On/On/Off but does not have a diagram which shows
how this switch is wired. Can you provide a schematic of this switch?
Mike Marker
--------
Mike Marker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413150#413150
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
11/15/2013
Hello Don, Thanks for the quick response. I=92ve got the picture. Take a
look at the Firgelli Automations FA-SC24 Actuator Speed Controller seen
here:
http://www.firgelliauto.com/product_info.php?cPath=99&products_id=362
Note the the 12V to 40V operating range.
OC
====
From: Don Johnston
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Trim motor speed control
Owen,
Thanks for reaching out to me.
The aircraft is a Velocity-XL. I am trimming a canard-width elevator. I
have been told by the factory and other builders that existing trim is
right at the upper limit of usable speed. The trim motor is connected to
a fiberglass leaf spring.
Fon
Sent from my Android mobile device.
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| Subject: | Re: Switch S700 2-11 |
At 10:42 AM 11/15/2013, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>I am looking for a switch that has three potions (Off/On/On). B&C
>has a switch S700 2-11 which is shown as On/On/Off but does not have
>a diagram which shows how this switch is wired. Can you provide a
>schematic of this switch?
What are you trying to do? You can wire an on-on-on
to be off/on/on by simply leaving one terminal
unused.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
At 07:56 AM 11/15/2013, you wrote:
>
>Motor Speed Control--
>
>An important point of trim motor speed controlling is that the
>torque should not be reduced when the speed is reduced (in fact, it
>could go up...but not down). This makes regular voltage controllers
>undesirable except where torque isn't an issue.
Not true. Speed and torque are not directly related
in terms of motor performance. Speed of a motor is a
function of terminal voltage AND load on the motor.
Torque requirement for moving a flight control surface
is a function of aero-dynamic loads. For example, the
average torque needed to extend a flap from 0-10
degrees is often a small fraction of that required to
push it all the way out to 30 degrees.
Assuming one wishes to slow flap motion as it approaches
fully deployed, there is risk of having the motor STALL
under some conditions of load . . . the risk is a function
of motor resistance and a REDUCTION in available torque
at voltages intended to simply slow it down. It has NOTHING
to do with the manner in which voltage is controlled. You
can set the terminal voltage of the motor by means of regulated
power supply, battery, PWM controller, variable resistor,
you name it. As long as you're holding the motor voltage
constant, then it's possible to experience an unintended
STALL which is illustrated in the following plot of
an exemplar motor's performance in a pitch trim actuator.
Emacs!
Folks that would like to explore all the details of
my assertion are invited to download the data package
at http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Motors
The figure above is an excerpt from one of the figures
in that data package. In high speed trim, applied voltage
was 26.5 volts which means that for ALL other conditions,
the motor speed can be predicted right off the plots.
Aerodynamic loads reflected to the motor ranged from .72 oz-in
to 1.82 oz-in. With high speed voltage applied, the motor
can be expected to run someplace between 3870 and 5304 rpm
for a variation of +/- 16%.
With low speed voltage applied, the same motor's speed
variance from center was predicted to be +/- 100
percent . . . with the motor stalling at max loads.
The data package speaks to the characterization of
motor stall current as (Eapplied-Ecemf)/Resistance
of the motor. Motors being operated at FIXED voltages
appear to 'lose torque' because their speed regulation
is terrible compared to the higher speed operation.
Note that torque-current demand on the motor at say 1.5 oz-in
is exactly the same irrespective of speed (applied
voltage). The motor appears 'crippled' because the SAME
variations in current (CAB) over designed torque range
is a LARGER PERCENTAGE of motor's predictable
behavior at the lower speed (FDE).
Virtually ALL voltage control methodologies popular
with the OBAM aviation community are simply modifications
to applied voltage. The seemingly 'crippled' behavior
of the motor will be the same no matter HOW that
voltage is adjusted. LM317, pwm . . . you pick it.
There ARE ways to close the loop on speed control
by sensing motor current and inserting a derived
correction of speed by increasing terminal voltage
as load increases . . . or by sensing motor speed
with some form of tachometer and closing the loop
on measured speed.
Assertions for expecting loads on a motor to
go UP as shaft speed goes down are incorrect,
the flight surface has no way to know that it's
moving slower . . . it IS influenced only by change
of dynamic pressure and moment arms.
>The second point is that trim speed should usually be reduced as a
>function of airspeed. Often this is critical and can give the pilot
>sudden difficulties. Tee-ing off the pitot line and using the
>pressure signal is easy to do.
I've designed a number of pitch trim controllers.
The first two went on the Lear 55 and the second
was a fleet retrofit to the 30 series. I
proposed a continuously variable pitch trim rate
based on IAS but it proved unnecessary. Trim rates
optimized for cruising flight fell into one fairly
narrow range, speeds for approach to landing in another
narrow range. Turns out that approach:cruise trims
in the Lear systems were 4:1 ratio. Use a flaps-not-stowed
switch to select high speed and we were done.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Trim motor speed control |
At 11:46 AM 11/15/2013, you wrote:
>11/15/2013
>
>Hello Don, Thanks for the quick response. I've got the picture. Take
>a look at the Firgelli Automations FA-SC24 Actuator Speed Controller seen here:
>
><http://www.firgelliauto.com/product_info.php?cPath=99&products_id=362>http://www.firgelliauto.com/product_info.php?cPath=99&products_id=362
>
>Note the the 12V to 40V operating range.
Note also the notation:
The FA-SC24 is intended to control the speed of one Linear actuator
or motor, Do not connect two actuators/motors to the same FA-SC24.
The slowest the actuator/motor will run is about 10% of the full
speed. Reducing the speed can affect the maximum load the actuator can move.
Motor current is proportional to load torque
at any speed. There will come a time as voltage
falls that STALL torque (Eapplied/Resistance of
Motor) is some number smaller than load torque
and the motor stalls.
The load torque doesn't rise because the speed
went down; ability to CARRY rated torque fell
off because stall current came down proportionally
with the drop in applied voltage.
If we could wind the motor with unobtainium having
zero resistance, the speed torque curve would not
have that left-to-right, downward slope . . . it would
be flat. This means that speed is absolutely locked
to applied voltage no matter what load is applied.
The same motor would be 100% efficient because it
doesn't get hot!
I've worked with designs that deliberately picked
a too-large motor with lower values of internal
resistance just to get a flatter speed-torque
curve without use of external electronic controls.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Switch S700 2-11 |
Bob,
I want to wire my electronic ignition switch such that to can select the Main or
Aux battery bus (Off/Aux Bus/Main Bus). The drawing depicts what I'm thinking.
I'm not sure that the S700 2-11 is internally wired as depicted...that is
why I asked for clarification on the switch configuration.
I also want to use this switch for a pulsed landing light (Off/On Steady/Pulsed)
Mike Marker
--------
Mike Marker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413171#413171
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ign_sw_184.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Switch S700 2-11 |
At 03:08 PM 11/15/2013, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>I want to wire my electronic ignition switch such that to can select
>the Main or Aux battery bus (Off/Aux Bus/Main Bus). The drawing
>depicts what I'm thinking. I'm not sure that the S700 2-11 is
>internally wired as depicted...that is why I asked for clarification
>on the switch configuration.
>
>I also want to use this switch for a pulsed landing light (Off/On
>Steady/Pulsed)
The S700-2-10 switch can be wired for single
pole three postion as shown below . . . just leave
the lower throw terminal (3)unhooked and you
get the desired behavior.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor failure |
Often this is a great time to install Battery Master Switch...Well then the main battery starter cable through the car is Dead after start up....So i gives a better suggestion you can used the well batteries and you can found the well shop at : http://www.johnslittlegadgetstore.com.au/.. Thanks..
--------
anthony harding
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413193#413193
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