Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:27 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle)
1. 08:58 AM - Re: Carling G-Series switch configuration (Tundra10)
2. 09:57 AM - Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 (Owen Baker)
3. 10:58 AM - Re: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 (Robert Reed)
4. 11:42 AM - Re: Alternator over voltage protection. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:57 AM - Re: Questions about Z-08 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:45 PM - Re: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:56 PM - Re: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 (Robert Reed)
8. 02:08 PM - Contactors (Eric M. Jones)
9. 02:38 PM - Re: Contactors (jan)
10. 03:34 PM - Re: Contactors (Jeff Luckey)
11. 03:37 PM - Re: Contactors (Jeff Luckey)
12. 04:55 PM - Re: Contactors (Eric M. Jones)
13. 05:26 PM - Re: Contactors (Dj Merrill)
14. 05:55 PM - Re: Contactors (Eric M. Jones)
15. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Contactors (Dj Merrill)
16. 08:39 PM - Of pencils and airplanes . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 08:50 PM - Of pencils and airplanes . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
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| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least
that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get
a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during
this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through
YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Carling G-Series switch configuration |
Hmm.
It looks from the diagram that the 2GE switch is the one with all six terminals.
Does anyone have any of these to confirm the switches are actually what the diagrams
show ?
Circuit 1 on, Circuit 2 on are painfully useless descriptions when a two different
connections can be made for each pole.
Thanks,
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413572#413572
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/carling_643.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 |
11/20/2013
Hello Kent, One way to solve the problem of getting wires from the
fuselage to the wing tip, for now and in the future, is to install a
thin wall plastic tube like sprinkler systems use in the wing as a
conduit to run the wires within. Very easy to snake in additional wires
if required.
=98OC=99
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to
gather and understand information."
=======
Time: 08:38:10 AM PST US
From: "Kent Ogden" <ogdenk@upstate.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10
Hi all,
I am trying to get my wings closed up on my RV-10, but I would like to
get
all the wiring in first if possible. I haven't decided on an autopilot
yet, but I was wondering if the roll servos that are out there would use
a
more or less similar wiring harness. If, for example, I got a SteinAir
wiring harness for a Trutrak servo, would it be compatible with another
AP? I guess I don't know how many different servos there are, do
different AP's use basically the same servos?
Kent
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 |
One additional hint....always pull a string through with the wire and tie o
ff at both ends.=C2- That way you have a pull line to use if you ever nee
d to add an additional wire for some reason.=C2- =0A=C2-=0ABOB=0A =0A
=0A________________________________=0A From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
=0ATo: ogdenk@upstate.edu; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesd
ay, November 20, 2013 11:56 AM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Roll Servo Wir
ing for RV-10=0A =0A=0A=0A11/20/2013 =0A=0AHello Kent, One way to solve th
e problem of getting wires from the fuselage =0Ato the wing tip, for now an
d in the future, is to install a thin wall plastic =0Atube like sprinkler s
ystems use in the wing as a conduit to run the wires =0Awithin. Very easy t
o snake in additional wires if required. =0A=0A=98OC=99 =0A=0A'
O C' Baker =0Asays "The best investment you can make is the effort to gathe
r and understand =0Ainformation." =0A=0A===========
====================== =0ATime:
08:38:10 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Kent Ogden" =0A<ogdenk@upstate.edu>=0ASubject:
AeroElectric-List: Roll Servo Wiring for =0ARV-10=0A=0AHi all,=0A=0AI am t
rying to get my wings closed up on my RV-10, =0Abut I would like to get =0A
all the wiring in first if possible.=C2- I haven't =0Adecided on an autop
ilot =0Ayet, but I was wondering if the roll servos that are =0Aout there w
ould use a =0Amore or less similar wiring harness.=C2- If, for =0Aexample
, I got a SteinAir =0Awiring harness for a Trutrak servo, would it be =0Aco
mpatible with another =0AAP?=C2- I guess I don't know how many different
=0Aservos there are, do =0Adifferent AP's use basically the same =0Aservos?
=============
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator over voltage protection. |
At 02:28 AM 11/20/2013, you wrote:
>G'day Bob,
>
>I am really enjoying your articles in Kitplanes - but one comment
>that always gets my attention is your references to over voltage
>protection on the alternator. I have your book and while it is
>covered there, I am interested in the latest advice you have.
>
>I have an Air-Tec ND internally regulated alternator that I intended
>to install in an experimental. Other builders have basically told me
>to stop worrying and simply install the damn thing, but I still have
>that uneasy feeling in the gut about no over voltage protection. So
>I hope you don't mind giving your opinion on what I should do.
>
>While the dollars are important, if your suggestion is to dump the
>existing alt. and go with an externally regulated unit, that is what I will do.
High John, thanks for the thumbs-up on Kitplanes.
To be sure there are no doubt MANY alternators with internal
or external regulation flying that do not have ov protection.
It's a fact that modern regulator fabrication techniques have
produced very robust electronics suited to the task.
It would be interesting to know how the counters of risk-beans
would rate the MTBF numbers on the modern internally regulated
alternator. I'm not sure that the folks with talent to do an
aerospace-style MTBF study could even gain access to the
kind of internal data necessary to make an MTBF assessment.
But even if the MTBF numbers are based on pretty solid
information, the risks are not going to be zero. Further,
not many folks really understand that MTBF means "mean" or
"average" time between failures. In a symmetrical world
one might assert that essentially all devices will be failed
at 2x their MTBF number. That statement is illustrated in
the following graph . . .
Emacs!
After a 'burn in' period to weed out infant
mortality, one can generally expect failure
rates to follow the ol' bell-curve. But notice
that failure numbers just a short distance out from
zero hours is not zero. A 100 hour failure of
a 10,000 hour device does not argue with
the study. It simply means that there will probably
be a 'balancing' failure out at 19,900 hours or
thereabouts.
The folks who studied on failure modes came upon the
ideas for low cost, relatively simple processes
by which system reliability could be greatly
enhanced.
The 'solution' arises from a study of the
question: "What is the likelihood of having
TWO cooperating failures during the expenditure
of one tank of fuel?" I.e. consider the probability
for TWO, 10,000 hour devices failing within the
SAME 4-hour window.
All of a sudden, the odds get MUCH better assuming
that the lightly stressed, simple prophylactic
against ov events gets tested periodically . . .
say every annual.
The numbers that support a notion of long and
satisfactory performance for the bare-foot
IR alternator are quite good . . . but the
risks are not zero. Adding the protection drives
the risks very close to zero.
There are few, if any, internally regulated
alternators that cannot be adapted for (1)
piggy-backed OV protection (like PlanePower)
or modified for external regulation like
B&C.
I don't champion the notion of active ov
protection out of fear but of understanding
of how easy it is to drive the risk to zero.
I'll leave the choice to you. Know that there
are many builders who fly comfortably without
it.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Questions about Z-08 |
At 04:57 PM 11/19/2013, you wrote:
>Bob.
>I have been unable to find any attachments pertaining to the Z-08
>architecture that is being talked about.
>Are you able to point me in the right direction please?
>When I receive the aeroelectric-list in e-mail form there are never
>any attachments with them.
>Am I missing something?
>Any help much appreciated.
>Patrick Elliott.
I'm still studying the options for reliable
attachment of illustrations to my postings. . .
In the mean time, the discussions that drive
the dialog on a new z-figure so far are
illustrated in a preliminary release of
figure Z-07. Seems Z-08 was recently used
in another discussion so I've renumbered
the drawing you can download at:
tinyurl.com/kbn6bys
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 |
At 12:56 PM 11/20/2013, you wrote:
>One additional hint....always pull a string through with the wire
>and tie off at both ends. That way you have a pull line to use if
>you ever need to add an additional wire for some reason.
>
>BOB
Yeah . . . but be sure to pull a new string in with the new
wires or you only get to do it the easy way once . . .
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10 |
Been there, done that, have recorded the choice words for posterity.- =0A
-=0AThanks,=0A-=0ABob=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From
: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelect
ric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 2:44 PM=0ASubj
ect: Re: AeroElectric-List: Roll Servo Wiring for RV-10=0A =0A=0A=0AAt 12:
56 PM 11/20/2013, you wrote:=0A=0AOne additional hint....always=0Apull a st
ring through with the wire and tie off at both ends.- That=0Away you have
a pull line to use if you ever need to add an additional=0Awire for some r
eason.- =0A>-=0A>BOB=0A- Yeah . . . but be sure to pull a new string
in with the new=0A- wires or you only get to do it the easy way once . .
===================
Message 8
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We have discussed contactors for years and I have always recommended the Kilovac
EV200 and the Gigavac GX11, but there is a new contactor available from Gigavac
to compete directly with the Kilovac EV200 and offers some additional benefits,
such as no noise, terminal shields, and improved performance characteristics.
I was considering selling these, but there isn't any meat on the bone left
after getting them from Gigavac.
I have one and I like these more than the Kilovacs.
Part Number Description
GX200BB 350A, 12Vdc coil, 24" leads
1-4 $116
5-9 $104
10-24 $99
See: http://www.gigavac.com/pdf/ds/pp/gx200.pdf
(ignore their weird warning to see their other contactors (remember Gigavac is
refering to 200A continuous). Gigavac is known for having strange marketing, but
great products. Also ignore their manual switches...they are made for really,
really, high-voltage applications and are much too big.
But I recommend the GX200 as the best contactor for the task, if you are planning
to use a contactor at all.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413611#413611
Message 9
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Hi Eric,
I hope they have improved. We changed from EV200 to Gigavac and had nothing
but problems .. This was in high voltage EV applications - must have used
more than 1000 units .. all had to go back .... it was a few years ago ...
so things may have changed ...
Strange thing was that application was fine ..all the Gigavac tech info
etc..was great .. but we keep getting welded contactor ... it was a very
expensive exercise, we will never use them again. Never had problem with
the EV200.
Yes the circuit saver on the EV200 can be noisy. But have not been a great
problem. Also can use the EV200 with no circuit saver and use a external
circuit saver ...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: 20 November 2013 22:08
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactors
<emjones@charter.net>
We have discussed contactors for years and I have always recommended the
Kilovac EV200 and the Gigavac GX11, but there is a new contactor available
from Gigavac to compete directly with the Kilovac EV200 and offers some
additional benefits, such as no noise, terminal shields, and improved
performance characteristics. I was considering selling these, but there
isn't any meat on the bone left after getting them from Gigavac.
I have one and I like these more than the Kilovacs.
Part Number Description
GX200BB 350A, 12Vdc coil, 24" leads
1-4 $116
5-9 $104
10-24 $99
See: http://www.gigavac.com/pdf/ds/pp/gx200.pdf
(ignore their weird warning to see their other contactors (remember Gigavac
is refering to 200A continuous). Gigavac is known for having strange
marketing, but great products. Also ignore their manual switches...they are
made for really, really, high-voltage applications and are much too big.
But I recommend the GX200 as the best contactor for the task, if you are
planning to use a contactor at all.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413611#413611
Message 10
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Eric,=0A=0AAs you know, the typical small experimental aircraft may typical
ly have 2 contactors:=0A1. the "master" - continuous duty, usually rated fo
r ~80 amps, typically handles < 40 amps=0A2. the starter solenoid - intermi
ttent duty, rated for cranking 200-300 amps=0A=0AFor which of these mission
s are you suggesting the GX200?=0A=0A=0ALooks like a great device but seems
to be overkill for these applications w/ a price to match.=0A=0A-Jeff=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Eric M. Jones <emjones@c
harter.net>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, Novem
ber 20, 2013 2:07 PM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Contactors=0A =0A=0A-->
AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
=0A=0AWe have discussed contactors for years and I have always recommended
the Kilovac EV200 and the Gigavac GX11, but there is a new contactor availa
ble from Gigavac to compete directly with the Kilovac EV200 and offers some
additional benefits, such as no noise, terminal shields, and improved perf
ormance characteristics. I was considering selling these, but there isn't a
ny meat on the bone left after getting them from Gigavac.=0A=0AI have one a
nd I like these more than the Kilovacs.=0A=0APart Number--- Descripti
on--- --- --- =0AGX200BB--- 350A, 12Vdc coil, 24" l
eads- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- --- 1-4- $116=0A5-9- $104=0A10-24 $99 =0A=0ASee: http://www.g
igavac.com/pdf/ds/pp/gx200.pdf- =0A=0A(ignore their weird warning to see
their other contactors (remember Gigavac is refering to 200A continuous). G
igavac is known for having strange marketing, but great products. Also igno
re their manual switches...they are made for really, really, high-voltage a
pplications and are much too big.=0A=0ABut I recommend the GX200 as the bes
t contactor for the task, if you are planning to use a contactor at all.=0A
=0A--------=0AEric M. Jones=0Awww.PerihelionDesign.com=0A113 Brentwood Driv
e=0ASouthbridge, MA 01550=0A(508) 764-2072=0Aemjones(at)charter.net=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
====
Message 11
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Eric,=0A=0AAs you know, the typical small experimental aircraft may typical
ly have 2 contactors:=0A1. the "master" - continuous duty, usually rated fo
r ~80 amps, typically handles < 40 amps=0A2. the starter solenoid - intermi
ttent duty, rated for cranking 200-300 amps=0A=0AFor which of these mission
s are you suggesting the GX200?=0A=0A=0ALooks like a great device but seems
to be overkill for these applications w/ a price to match.=0A=0A-Jeff=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Eric M. Jones <emjones@c
harter.net>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, Novem
ber 20, 2013 2:07 PM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Contactors=0A =0A=0A-->
AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
=0A=0AWe have discussed contactors for years and I have always recommended
the Kilovac EV200 and the Gigavac GX11, but there is a new contactor availa
ble from Gigavac to compete directly with the Kilovac EV200 and offers some
additional benefits, such as no noise, terminal shields, and improved perf
ormance characteristics. I was considering selling these, but there isn't a
ny meat on the bone left after getting them from Gigavac.=0A=0AI have one a
nd I like these more than the Kilovacs.=0A=0APart Number--- Descripti
on--- --- --- =0AGX200BB--- 350A, 12Vdc coil, 24" l
eads- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- --- 1-4- $116=0A5-9- $104=0A10-24 $99 =0A=0ASee: http://www.g
igavac.com/pdf/ds/pp/gx200.pdf- =0A=0A(ignore their weird warning to see
their other contactors (remember Gigavac is refering to 200A continuous). G
igavac is known for having strange marketing, but great products. Also igno
re their manual switches...they are made for really, really, high-voltage a
pplications and are much too big.=0A=0ABut I recommend the GX200 as the bes
t contactor for the task, if you are planning to use a contactor at all.=0A
=0A--------=0AEric M. Jones=0Awww.PerihelionDesign.com=0A113 Brentwood Driv
e=0ASouthbridge, MA 01550=0A(508) 764-2072=0Aemjones(at)charter.net=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
====
Message 12
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Jan,
>
> I hope they have improved. We changed from EV200 to Gigavac and had nothing
but problems .. This was in high voltage EV applications - must have used more
than 1000 units .. all had to go back .... it was a few years ago ...
> so things may have changed ...
I have heard of problems with big contactors in EVs charging supercaps. Inless
the caps are "pre-charged" or there is a line resistor, the current is ~infinite.
These lessons were learned painfully in EVs. But Gigavac makes good stuff
and they deserve a look. Gigavac makes scores of different contactors.
Jeff,
There are main battery contactors. Maybe more. They would be overkill for 40A.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413621#413621
Message 13
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On Nov 20, 2013, at 5:07 PM, "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> wrote:
>
> GX200BB 350A, 12Vdc coil, 24" leads
1-4 $116
>
This is not intended as a flame, and I am not trying to join the contactor war.
:-)
I literally just received a starter contactor from Aircraft Spruce that cost $9.95,
and I bought a pair of IN5402 diodes from Radio Shack for $1.99. The contactor
on my Glastar is identical as far as I can tell, and has been working for
the last 14 years even though it has no diode installed on it. Once this summer
I pushed the button and did not get the "click" from the contactor and the
starter did not turn. A few seconds later I pushed the button and it worked
fine, and has worked fine for a few dozen starts since then. I'm replacing it
"just because" and also because it is dirt cheap to do so.
Serious question, what benefit do I really get for that extra $104?
-Dj
Message 14
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Dj-
I don't want to crank out another bushel of words on this either (and I'm certain
Bob N is tired of it), but:
The type 70 you used is position-sensitive, operates up to only 122 degF (!), is
not airtight, water-tight not fuel-proof, and sucks current. Yes, it has been
used for years, and it is cheap. Time to change.
ps, if you'd used bidirectional Zeners instead of p/n diodes, the contactor would
probably still be working.
pps, I am a proponent of using NO contactors if you can arrange it. So that's where
I stand. Check the PDF and if it suits your plans, try one.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413624#413624
Message 15
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On 11/20/2013 8:55 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>
> The type 70 you used is position-sensitive, operates up to only 122 degF (!),
is not airtight, water-tight not fuel-proof, and sucks current. Yes, it has been
used for years, and it is cheap. Time to change.
Hi Eric,
Thank you for responding. I don't really feel that answers my
question though, at least I don't think it answers it from my
perspective as a typical experimental guy on a budget. This email (and
the previous one) really isn't directed at you specifically, although I
suppose it might look that way.
Literally, what benefit do I really get for that extra $104? All I
want is to push the button and have the starter turn. At $9.95, the 14
year old contactor provided that for 71 cents per year. I do not
understand how the more expensive contactor is going to do the job any
better. Budget is a concern for me, so if I am looking at a $12
solution compared to a $116 solution, I really need to see some clear
benefits before I am willing to spend the extra money when they both
seem to do the same thing.
Having said all that, understand that I'm not an electronics
expert, and am unlikely to appreciate the finer nuances of the method of
how each of these types of contactors work. That is probably fairly
typical of most of the people on this list. The $116 contactor may save
a few amps of current, for example, but that really doesn't mean a lot
to me. I have a 20 ah battery, and I use the contactor for a few
seconds to start the engine, then the battery gets charged back up
during the flight. Whether it uses 1 amp versus 5 amps (made up numbers
for illustration), it doesn't really have an impact on how I use it, at
least in this case.
I live in New England, so 122F as a limit isn't a concern (-20F
might be! :-) ), and even a 10 minute turnaround for a fuel stop in the
summer so the cowling is still hot hasn't seemed to create any issues.
Airtight and watertight doesn't seem to matter since it is inside the
cowling and protected from the elements.
The one item that you mentioned, not being fuel proof, could be a
potential safety issue if somehow fuel were to be sprayed onto the
contactor and an internal spark when I push the button caused it to
ignite. It is pretty far away from my fuel system though, and I have a
gravity feed fuel setup, so very low pressure. The chances of fuel
getting to the contactor seems very slight even in the event of a fuel leak.
This email went on longer than I intended, but I thought it useful
to offer a perspective from someone that I think is a typical
representation of people on this list.
> ps, if you'd used bidirectional Zeners instead of p/n diodes, the contactor would
probably still be working.
For clarity, the 14 year old contactor has never had diodes (or
zeners) installed on it, and it is still working. I don't really have
any reason to replace it except for that one blip a few months back, and
that I am completely re-doing a bunch of electrical items on the plane
and it is convenient to do it while I have everything apart. The new
one that I will be installing will get a diode across it. Maybe it will
last 28 years instead of only 14... ;-)
I hope this email is taken in the positive spirit in which it is
intended. I mean no offense, and hope none is taken.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Of pencils and airplanes . . . |
As most of you know, Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial
details for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago.
The Lists, Matt's business site, and AeroElectric.com got really
flakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of
my e-mail services for several days. Out of business and out
of touch.
After two days, I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as
to root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . .
I began to mull over plan-B options. Of course, plan-B
would have entailed seeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and
ancillary services. NOT a quick, inexpensive or happy thing to
contemplate.
The time talents and resources that go into fabrication and
maintenance of some of the 'simplest' features of our lives often
go unnoticed . . . not because they're unappreciated . . . but simply
because we're unaware of their significance.
I will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read written
in 1958 titled "I pencil". See:
http://tinyurl.com/me3q3hj
It's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of
unacquainted, self-interested individuals who exploited
uncountable windows of opportunity for what has
been called "spontaneous order" in the manufacture and sales
of the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Read's
essay is to examine two features of the human experience that
contribute to the success of this List and our various interests
in airplanes.
The first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know
the millions of individuals who contributed to the materials
and infrastructure that make this List possible. We sit at the
top of a pyramid of work-product derived from the time,
talents and resources of millions of people who we'll never
know.
Another feature I'd like to emphasis is our ignorance
of the criticality for any single component for a host
of materials and components for the manufacture and
sales of a simple pencil or an affordable airplane. Suppose
any one of the materials or processes described in Read's
essay were simply unavailable. How would that impact
the price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to
exist at it's new price? The really big question is, "How
might some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the
economy of our existence?"
The time, talent and resources that support infrastructure
for this List, my website, Matt's website, and our e-mails
cannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands
on an exceedingly complex array of activities that arose
from the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free-
market enterprises. But from our perch at the top of
this pyramid we need only look down a few layers and see that
this resource upon which we depend is vulnerable. There are
risks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-boned in an
intersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind
his facility and do catastrophic damage to the hardware.
Yours truly could take a deer through the windshield on
his way to Wichita some morning.
Other risks are less catastrophic. They include things
like amateurish behaviors by maintainers of the Internet
highway's potholes. Perhaps some material critical to
the manufacture of terabyte hard drives dries up. Or
maybe the cost of keeping the lights on and the bytes
herded become more than Matt can justify given his personal
needs for existence.
Several times a year I get an opportunity to
plant new seeds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens.
One of my favorites is to be standing in a long line
at Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and
hear somebody in line complaining about the
wait. I suggest to them that to wait in line for a
much desired product is a GOOD thing. Not having
to wait is a BAD thing if there is not enough business
to encourage them to be open tomorrow.
It goes without saying that few, if any of us, possess the
talents, resources or motivation to step up and do what
Matt does. At last count, there were about 1600 individuals
who subscribe to this List . . . certainly many more
make up the population of subscribers to all of the
Lists on Matronics.
A few years back, Matt was besieged by legal trials
and tribulations over the naming of his products . . .
seems somebody claimed ownership of the words 'scan'
and/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElectric-List
perceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with
several thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense
fund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's
operations now than it takes to stand in a line for
a Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils.
You and I can have no more positive influence over the
manufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue
to purchase such things and encourage those with the
time, talent and resources to continue doing what they
do best.
Let's contribute to the comfortable maintenance of this
service which is probably more valuable than we know.
Just a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics
Lists can make a big difference.
Bob . . .
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Of pencils and airplanes . . . |
As most of you know, Matt's ISP was fiddling with some crucial
details for the exchange of data on the 'net a few weeks ago.
The Lists, Matt's business site, and AeroElectric.com got really
flakey. . . I was 'unhooked' from the List and all of three of
my e-mail services for several days. Out of business and out
of touch.
After two days, I was beginning to worry. I had no idea as
to root cause nor was there a time table for resolution . . .
I began to mull over plan-B options. Of course, plan-B
would have entailed seeking a new home for aeroelectric.com and
ancillary services. NOT a quick, inexpensive or happy thing to
contemplate.
The time talents and resources that go into fabrication and
maintenance of some of the 'simplest' features of our lives often
go unnoticed . . . not because they're unappreciated . . . but simply
because we are ignorant of their significance.
I will invite you all to read an essay by one Leonard Read written
in 1958 titled "I pencil". See:
See: tinyurl.com/me3q2hj
It's a fascinating and well crafted peek into a society of
unacquainted, self-interested individuals who exploited
uncountable windows of opportunity for what has
been called "spontaneous order" in the manufacture and sales
of the simple wood pencil. The point of citing Mr. Read's
essay is to examine two features of the human experience that
contribute to the success of this List and our various interests
in airplanes.
The first point I'd like to make is that we cannot know
the millions of individuals who contributed to the materials
and infrastructure that make this List possible. We sit at the
top of a pyramid of work-product derived from the time,
talents and resources of millions of people who we'll never
meet . . . much less know.
Another feature I'd like to emphasis is our ignorance
of the criticality for some single feature amongst a host
of materials and components for the manufacture and
sales of a simple pencil or an affordable airplane. Suppose
any one of the materials or processes described in Read's
essay were simply unavailable. How would that impact
the price of a pencil? Would the pencil even continue to
exist at it's new price? The really big question is, "How
might some seemingly small loss ripple throughout the
economy of our existence?"
The time, talent and resources that support infrastructure
for this List, my website, Matt's website, and our e-mails
cannot be accurately known. That infrastructure stands
on an exceedingly complex array of activities that arose
from the ingenuity and spontaneous organization of free-
market enterprises. But from lofty perch at the top of
this pyramid we need only look down a few layers and see that
this resource upon which we depend is vulnerable. There are
risks we all assume . . . Matt could get t-boned in an
intersection tomorrow. Lightning could strike the pole behind
his facility and do catastrophic damage to the hardware.
Other effects are less dramatic but no less risky. They
include things like amateurish effort of the "fixers
of potholes" in the Internet highway. Perhaps some
material critical to the manufacture of terabyte hard
drives dries up. Or maybe the cost of keeping the lights
on and the bytes herded become more than Matt can justify
given his personal needs for existence.
Several times a year I get an opportunity to
plant new seeds of thought in the minds of fellow citizens.
One of my favorites is to be standing in a long line
at Panera's waiting to purchase a bagel and coffee and
hear somebody complaining about the wait. I suggest to
them that to wait in line for a much desired product is
a GOOD thing. Not having to wait is a BAD thing if it
demonstrates insufficient business to encourage them
to be open tomorrow.
It goes without saying that few, if any of us, possess the
talents, resources or motivation to step up and do what
Matt does.
A few years back, Matt was besieged by legal trials
and tribulations over the naming of his products . . .
seems somebody claimed ownership of the words 'scan'
and/or 'scanner' . . . We here on the AeroElectric-List
perceived a risk to Matt's operations and came up with
several thousands of dollars to contribute to his defense
fund. We need make no greater 'investment' in Matt's
operations now than it takes to stand in a line for
a Quarter-Pounder Combo . . . or a fist full of pencils.
You and I can effect no more positive influence over the
manufacture of pencils and hard drives than to continue
to purchase such things and encourage those with the
time, talent and resources to continue doing what they
do best. In the same spirit of smart, free-market
consumerism, let us contribute to the comfortable maintenance
of Matt's service which is probably more valuable than we know.
Just a little bit from thousands of us on the Matronics
Lists can make a big difference.
Bob . . .
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