Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:09 AM - Re: panel colour? (Sacha)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj)
3. 05:38 AM - Re: panel colour? (Robert Borger)
4. 05:46 AM - Re: panel colour? (Harley)
5. 06:29 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj)
6. 07:15 AM - Re: panel colour? (Robert Borger)
7. 07:45 AM - Ignition switch (Jay Bannister)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Jeff Luckey)
9. 08:17 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj)
10. 08:37 AM - Re: panel colour? (Robert Borger)
11. 08:57 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj)
12. 09:11 AM - Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 09:26 AM - Re: Ignition switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:38 AM - Re: IMC Approval? (Owen Baker)
16. 09:58 AM - Re: panel colour? (Bill Watson)
17. 10:43 AM - Re: panel colour? (jan)
18. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: IMC Approval? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
19. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: IMC Approval? ()
20. 12:48 PM - Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (tfarrell839)
21. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: IMC Approval? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
22. 01:42 PM - Re: panel colour? (Bill Watson)
23. 02:09 PM - Re: A clarification on relay/contactor coil suppression (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
Greetings,
Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
cockpits?
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
> <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of
> RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I like ..
>
> RAL 7031
>
> Jan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf
> Of *Bill Allen
> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have
> to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an
> electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle
> of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works
> ergonomically and aesthetically.
>
> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too
> colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>
> Any advice?
>
> Bill Allen
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>*
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>*
>
> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>*
>
> *www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>*
>
> *www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
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> **
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> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> ank">www.mrrace.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> *
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
RayJ,
The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all the
aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US Navy
uses the same or a similar grey. Don=92t know about the US Army.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Greetings,
Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
cockpits?
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
>
> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of RAL
colour codes =85 You can Google it =85 Here is one that I like ..
>
>
> RAL 7031
>
>
> Jan
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Allen
> Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to
decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical
decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the
electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and
aesthetically.
>
>
> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too
colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>
>
> Any advice?
>
>
> Bill Allen
>
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> www.mypilotstore.com
> www.mrrace.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> ank">www.mrrace.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know what
color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did research
to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
> RayJ,
>
> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all
> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US
> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army.
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117
> rlborger@mac.com <mailto:rlborger@mac.com>
>
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
> cockpits?
>
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
>> <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>>
>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot
>> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I
>> like ..
>>
>>
>> RAL 7031
>>
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf
>> Of *Bill Allen
>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I
>> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly
>> an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual
>> pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour
>> that works ergonomically and aesthetically.
>>
>>
>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too
>> colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>>
>>
>> Any advice?
>>
>>
>> Bill Allen
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>*
>>
>> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>*
>>
>> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>*
>>
>> *www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>*
>>
>> *www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com/>*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
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>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
RayJ,
I=92d call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny.
Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt
Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a
translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either
screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed
through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described a
similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor.
Bob
On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know what
color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did research
to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
> RayJ,
>
> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all
the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US
Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don=92t know about the US Army.
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117
> rlborger@mac.com
>
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
cockpits?
>
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>>
>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of
RAL colour codes =85 You can Google it =85 Here is one that I like ..
>>
>>
>> RAL 7031
>>
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Allen
>> Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to
decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical
decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the
electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and
aesthetically.
>>
>>
>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too
colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>>
>>
>> Any advice?
>>
>>
>> Bill Allen
>>
>>
>>
>> www.aeroelectric.com
>> www.buildersbooks.com
>> www.homebuilthelp.com
>> www.mypilotstore.com
>> www.mrrace.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 7
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Hey Bob,
My friend is building a Zodiac 601XLB with a Jabiru 3300 engine. He is usi
ng the Bendix-type,
5-position mag switch. Since the Jabiru does not have an impulse coupled m
ag, the jumper
between the switch terminals =9CR=9D and the adjacent =9C
GND=9D were not connected. Engine running,
with the switch wired as you recommended, the engine would quit when
=9CR=9D was selected.
This made absolutely no sense to me.
At wits end, I asked for and you sent me a diagram showing the switch inter
nal connections.
However I have to conclude that the diagram is wrong.
Let's call the center ground Terminal "GND C" and the other one Ground R "
GND R".
"GND C" is grounded at the engine through the shields, a "true" ground.
A jumper connects terminal "R" and "GND R", not a true ground.
When the switch is in the first Start position the "R" terminal is open, ma
king the right mag hot.
When the switch is turned to Start, cranking position, "GND C" is connecte
d to "GND R".
Since "GND R" and "R" are connected, the "R" terminal is now grounded, kill
ing the Right Mag.
That simply can't be right; or I am reading the diagram wrong.
I had one of those =9Cwhat if we do this?=9D moments and put a
jumper between =9CR=9D and =9CGND R=9D.
Contrary to all logic, that made everything work as it should.
What am I missing?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim |
Motor
Tim,=0A=0AThat's not quite the answer I was looking for.- But rather than
try to figure out what's happening via text in emails, let's start w/ what
ever diagrams you have.- Then we can drill deeper as necessary.=0A=0AStan
ding by until you post the link ...=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________
_______=0A From: tfarrell839 <tim@AirCraftersLLC.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-li
st@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:16 PM=0ASubject: Aer
oElectric-List: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor=0A
rsllc.com>=0A=0AAs I understand it, yes it changes the polarity in the sens
e that if it gets positive on pin 11 and negative on 12 then it will output
positive on 13 an negative on 14 and vice versa. =0A=0AI don't know why th
e attachment didn't come through. I see it here when I m on the list serve.
I'll post a link tomorrow. =0A=0AThanks, =0A=0ATim=0A=0A--------=0ATim Far
rell=0AAircrafters=0A831-722-9141=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here
:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413850#413850=0A=0A=0A
===============
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
On the illuminated panel, what color was the illumination?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/23/2013 09:14 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
> RayJ,
>
> I'd call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny.
> Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt
> Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a
> translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either
> screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed
> through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described
> a similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor.
>
> Bob
>
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know
> what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did
> research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel.
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
>> RayJ,
>>
>> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all
>> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US
>> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army.
>>
>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> rlborger@mac.com <mailto:rlborger@mac.com>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
>> cockpits?
>>
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
>>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
>>> <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>>
>>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot
>>> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that
>>> I like ..
>>>
>>>
>>> RAL 7031
>>>
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Bill Allen
>>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17
>>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I
>>> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly
>>> an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual
>>> pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour
>>> that works ergonomically and aesthetically.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something
>>> too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>>>
>>>
>>> Any advice?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Allen
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com/>*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
>> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
RayJ,
White
Bob
On Nov 23, 2013, at 10:16 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
On the illuminated panel, what color was the illumination?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/23/2013 09:14 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
> RayJ,
>
> I=92d call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny.
Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt
Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a
translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either
screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed
through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described a
similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor.
>
> Bob
>
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know
what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did
research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the
wheel.
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
>> RayJ,
>>
>> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all
the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US
Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don=92t know about the US Army.
>>
>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> rlborger@mac.com
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
cockpits?
>>
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
>>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>>
>>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of
RAL colour codes =85 You can Google it =85 Here is one that I like ..
>>>
>>>
>>> RAL 7031
>>>
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Allen
>>> Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have
to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an
electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all
the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically
and aesthetically.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too
colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>>>
>>>
>>> Any advice?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Allen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.aeroelectric.com
>>> www.buildersbooks.com
>>> www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> www.mypilotstore.com
>>> www.mrrace.com
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
>> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
Thanks very much for the info. I don't think I'll try the illuminated
style, but I'll definitely be using the grey color for the instrument panel.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/23/2013 10:36 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
> RayJ,
>
> White
>
> Bob
>
> On Nov 23, 2013, at 10:16 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
> On the illuminated panel, what color was the illumination?
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 11/23/2013 09:14 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
>> RayJ,
>>
>> I'd call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny.
>> Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt
>> Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a
>> translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either
>> screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed
>> through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described
>> a similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know
>> what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did
>> research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the
>> wheel.
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
>>> RayJ,
>>>
>>> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all
>>> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US
>>> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army.
>>>
>>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>>> Bob Borger
>>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
>>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>>> rlborger@mac.com <mailto:rlborger@mac.com>
>>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
>>> cockpits?
>>>
>>>
>>> Raymond Julian
>>> Kettle River, MN.
>>>
>>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>>> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
>>>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
>>>> <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot
>>>> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that
>>>> I like ..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> RAL 7031
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Bill Allen
>>>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17
>>>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I
>>>> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not
>>>> strictly an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the
>>>> visual pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a
>>>> colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something
>>>> too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any advice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Allen
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>*
>>>>
>>>> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>*
>>>>
>>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>*
>>>>
>>>> *www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>*
>>>>
>>>> *www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com/>*
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> *http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>>>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
>>> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
>> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim |
Motor
So finally, my question: Can we use FETs, an H Bridge (which i don't
fully understand) or something else to amplify the current
proportionally to the PWM signal?
You've identified the fact that your "current boost"
methodology needs to be solid-state fast. Relays
won't cut it.
I should add, we have two sticks, each with trim control. The legacy
system that is in there has Bosch type relays that control the trim.
Figure C-1.6 suggests that manual trim commands
are simply looped through the GX3 hardware when
the autopilot is disengaged.
I am including a schematic for a possible recommendation from
Garmin. The caveat to this installation is that it seems we would
have to run the trim at full speed all the time.
Yes, you can craft an h-bridge amplifier to boost
the G3X output to drive the trim motor. It appears
that GS28 servos from Garmin have built in run-time
limiting features. I suspect that no such feature
is offered internal to the G3X.
The h-brige buffer is not a big deal, probably less
than $10 worth of parts. But such a device puts
major silicon downstream of the G3x in a manner
that no existing run-time limiting can control.
How handy are you with a soldering iron and would
you want to consider building a run-time-limited
buffer amplifier from scratch?
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim |
Motor
At 09:50 AM 11/23/2013, you wrote:
>Tim,
>
>That's not quite the answer I was looking for. But rather than try
>to figure out what's happening via text in emails, let's start w/
>whatever diagrams you have. Then we can drill deeper as necessary.
>
>Standing by until you post the link ...
The entire g3x manual is available at
http://tinyurl.com/l88273j
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition switch |
At 09:43 AM 11/23/2013, you wrote:
Hey Bob,
My friend is building a Zodiac 601XLB with a Jabiru 3300 engine. He
is using the Bendix-type,
5-position mag switch. Since the Jabiru does not have an impulse
coupled mag, the jumper
between the switch terminals R and the adjacent GND were not
connected. Engine running,
with the switch wired as you recommended, the engine would quit when
R was selected.
This made absolutely no sense to me.
At wits end, I asked for and you sent me a diagram showing the switch
internal connections.
However I have to conclude that the diagram is wrong.
Let's call the center ground Terminal "GND C" and the other one
Ground R "GND R".
"GND C" is grounded at the engine through the shields, a "true" ground.
A jumper connects terminal "R" and "GND R", not a true ground.
When the switch is in the first Start position the "R" terminal is
open, making the right mag hot.
When the switch is turned to Start, cranking position, "GND C" is
connected to "GND R".
Since "GND R" and "R" are connected, the "R" terminal is now
grounded, killing the Right Mag.
That simply can't be right; or I am reading the diagram wrong.
I had one of those "what if we do this?" moments and put a jumper
between R and GND R.
Contrary to all logic, that made everything work as it should.
What am I missing?
The diagram in for the OFF-L-R-BOTH-START key switch
in Z-27 and elsewhere is for the Gerdes/ACS A510-2
switch. What's the part number/brand on the switch
you have? I'm unaware of any variations on a theme
for these switches but they've been manufactured
for many decades.
If things are working as you wish, then it's
hard to argue with success . . . even when the
details for that success are not undnerstood.
If you do have some variant switch, I wouldn't
mind seeing it and getting the data off it. Is
it a legacy 510-1?
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: IMC Approval? |
11/23/2013
Hello Bill, You wrote (see copied below): =93Why a chill?=94
A chill because there is no such thing as applying for IFR or IMC
approval for experimental amateur built aircraft in the USA.**
Any attempt to obtain such approval from the FAA by some individual
builder can only lead to confusion and intrusion into an aspect of
amateur building that could do significant harm to our community.
Can we obtain further information on the provenance of the airplane that
you were asking about?
Thanks,
OC
**PS: Here is how the IFR capability of an experimental amateur built
aircraft built and certificated in the USA is resolved: Per FAA Order
8130.2G the Operating Limitations, which are part of the Special
Airworthiness Certificate of that aircraft, will state:
=93(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately
equipped for night
and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR =A7 91.205, this
aircraft is to be operated under
VFR, day only.
(9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 14 CFR
=A7 91.205 must
be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of 14
CFR part 91. Any
maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
aircraft logbook and
maintenance records.=94
Note that:
A) Passing an inspection or obtaining approval for the appropriate
equipment referred to above in the Operating Limitations is not a
required part of the initial airworthiness inspection of the
experimental amateur built aircraft.
B) The builder / operator / pilot is the one who determines whether or
not the aircraft is appropriately equipped after referring to the
appropriate requirements of 14 CFR Part 91. There are some caveats to
this statement. Please see the attachment for further explanation and
let me know if you have any questions. Thanks.
==============
From: Bill Allen
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: IMC Approval?
Hi OC,
you wrote; << This question sent a chill up my spine > Why a chill?
<<Are you asking about an experimental amateur built airplane that is
being built in the United States of America?>> I had presumed, perhaps
erroneously, that this was a UK aircraft
Bill
=======
On 23 November 2013 14:05, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
11/23/2013
Hello Bill Allen, You wrote: =93Is this the RV for which you're
applying for your IMC approval?=94
This question sent a chill up my spine. Are you asking about an
experimental amateur built airplane that is being built in the United
States of America?
Thanks,
OC
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to
gather and understand information."
=======
Time: 04:19:26 PM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
From: Bill Allen <billallensworld@gmail.com>
Yes, this is the shade I'll go with too.
Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light brown/tan to match the rest of my
interior. It was a high gloss polyurethane. No regrets with the paint,
gloss or color after 350 hours. including plenty of IFR work.
My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers. My eye
comfort and performance seems to exclusively be a product of screen
quality and and their brightness (especially at night).
I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from the
flash). Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the only
regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS screen
(they are GRT HXs). I should have put the left and center EFIS close
together. The distance between the two screens makes it uncomfortable
to use the center EFIS as a moving map. Instead I have to split my left
hand unit to get a PFD and moving map on the same screen.
Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent ones" Watson
On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote:
> Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know
> what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did
> research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel.
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
>> RayJ,
>>
>> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all
>> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US
>> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army.
>>
>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> rlborger@mac.com <mailto:rlborger@mac.com>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
>> cockpits?
>>
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
>>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
>>> <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>>
>>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot
>>> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I
>>> like ..
>>>
>>>
>>> RAL 7031
>>>
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Bill Allen
>>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17
>>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I
>>> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly
>>> an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual
>>> pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour
>>> that works ergonomically and aesthetically.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something
>>> too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>>>
>>>
>>> Any advice?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Allen
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>*
>>>
>>> *www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com/>*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>>> ank">www.mrrace.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
>> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
> *
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Hi Bill Watson,
Did Abby do the glare shield cover ? Does it keep up well or have you had
any issues with it ??
Jan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Watson
Sent: 23 November 2013 17:57
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light brown/tan to match the rest of my
interior. It was a high gloss polyurethane. No regrets with the paint,
gloss or color after 350 hours. including plenty of IFR work.
My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers. My eye comfort
and performance seems to exclusively be a product of screen quality and and
their brightness (especially at night).
I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from the
flash). Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the only
regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS screen (they
are GRT HXs). I should have put the left and center EFIS close together.
The distance between the two screens makes it uncomfortable to use the
center EFIS as a moving map. Instead I have to split my left hand unit to
get a PFD and moving map on the same screen.
Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent ones" Watson
On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote:
Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know what
color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did research to
determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
RayJ,
The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all the
aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US Navy uses
the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
<mailto:rlborger@mac.com> rlborger@mac.com
On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
<mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net> > wrote:
Greetings,
Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
cockpits?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
Bill
On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
<mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk> > wrote:
Hi Bill,
In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of RAL
colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I like ..
RAL 7031
Jan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill
Allen
Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17
Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
Hi All,
I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to decide
what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical decision,
but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the electrical work
behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically.
I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too colourful.
Perhaps a charcoal blue?
Any advice?
Bill Allen
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>
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<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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_blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>
ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com/>
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<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com <tp://forums.matronics.com>
href= <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
"http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
href= <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
"http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
href= <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
<http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
href= <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>
"http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com
<http://www.mypilotstore.com>
href= <http://www.mrrace.com/> "http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com
<http://www.mrrace.com>
href= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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href= <http://forums.matronics.com/>
"http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Bill
Watson,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Did Abby do the glare shield cover
? Does
it keep up well or have you had any issues with it
??<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weigh
t:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bill Watson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 23 November 2013
17:57<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">aeroelectric-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re:
AeroElectric-List:
panel colour?</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light
brown/tan to
match the rest of my interior. It was a high gloss
polyurethane. No
regrets with the paint, gloss or color after 350 hours. including
plenty of IFR
work.<br>
<br>
My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers. My
eye
comfort and performance seems to exclusively be a product of
screen
quality and and their brightness (especially at night).<br>
<br>
I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from
the
flash). Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the
only
regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS screen
(they are
GRT HXs). I should have put the left and center EFIS close
together. The distance between the two screens makes it
uncomfortable to
use the center EFIS as a moving map. Instead I have to split my
left hand
unit to get a PFD and moving map on the same screen.<br>
<br>
Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent
ones"
Watson<br>
<br>
On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'
cite="mid:5290BB83.9040400@frontiernet.net" type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:13.5pt'>Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a
flat
finish. Do you know what color and size text was used for
labeling?
I assume they did research to determine what w</span></font>hat was
best, no
reason to reinvent the wheel.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Raymond
Julian<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Kettle River</span></font></st1:City>,
<st1:State
w:st="on">MN</st1:State></st1:place>.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fo
nt
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>"And you know that I could have me a
million more friends,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>and all I'd have to lose is my point of
view." - John Prine <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'
cite="mid:84C5CD74-6C05-4A2E-A0CC-0EB777454B10@mac.com" type=cite>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>RayJ, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or
maybe a bit
lighter, in all the aircraft I was associated with while I was in.
I
believe the US Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don’t
know
about the US Army.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Blue skies & tailwinds,</span><br
style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on"><span style='orphans: 2;widows:
2'>Bob</st1:PersonName>
Borger</span><br style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>Europa XS Tri, Rotax
914, Airmaster C/S
Prop.</span><br style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>Little Toot Sport
Biplane, Lycoming
Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP</span><br style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><span
style='orphans: 2;
widows: 2'>3705 Lynchburg Dr</st1:address></st1:Street>.</span><br
style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><span style='orphans:
2;widows: 2'>Corinth</st1:City>,
<st1:State w:st="on">TX</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">76208-5331</span></st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br
style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<span style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>Cel: 817-992-1117</span><br
style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<a href="mailto:rlborger@mac.com" moz-do-not-send=true><span
style='orphans: 2;
widows: 2'>rlborger@mac.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='orphans: 2;widows: 2'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <<a
href="mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net"
moz-do-not-send=true>raymondj@frontiernet.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:13.5pt'>Greetings,<br>
<br>
Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
cockpits?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Raymond
Julian<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Kettle River</span></font></st1:City>,
<st1:State
w:st="on">MN</st1:State></st1:place>.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><font
size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><fo
nt
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>"And you know that I could have me a
million more friends,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>and all I'd have to lose is my point of
view." - John Prine <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'
cite="mid:CADR3Y5ZYS8NOEwCKmODkUzFG6QT8Hvny11VG+9sg-um3TxC_cg@mail.gma
il.com"
type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <<a
href="mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>jan@claver.demon.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Hi Bill,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>In <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place> for wet paint
(or power
for that matter) we use a lot of RAL colour codes … You can
Google it
… Here is one that I like ..</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>RAL 7031</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Jan</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font
size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com</a>
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com</a>]
<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bill Allen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 22 November 2013
12:17<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>aeroelectric-list@matronics.com</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b>
AeroElectric-List: panel
colour?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times "><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times\000D\000A"'>Hi All,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times "><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times\000D\000A"'>I've just finished a new panel
(aluminium) for a
LongEz and I have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not
strictly
an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of
all the
electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and
aesthetically.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'm
leaning towards something other than black, but something too
colourful.
Perhaps a charcoal blue?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Any
advice?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal
style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bill
Allen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><
b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'> </span></font></b><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
<pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true><span
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com</a></span></sp
an></font></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.buildersbooks.com</a></span></span></font></b
><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.homebuilthelp.com</a></span></span></font></b
><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
href="http://www.mypilotstore.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send=true>www.mypilotstore.com</a></span>
</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
href="http://www.mrrace.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://www.mrrace.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.mrrace.com</a></span></span></font></b><o:p><
/o:p></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a></span><
/span></font></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-L
ist</a></span></span></font></b><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
href="http://forums.matronics.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://forums.matronics.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://forums.matronics.com</a></span></span></fo
nt></b><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
<div>
<div><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></fo
nt></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>_blank"><a
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.aeroelectric.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>.com" target="_blank"><a
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.buildersbooks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font
></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>="_blank"><a
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.homebuilthelp.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font
></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>="_blank"><a href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.mypilotstore.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>ank"><a href="http://www.mrrace.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.mrrace.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></
pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>_blank"><a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a><o:p></o
:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>ist" target="_blank"><a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-L
ist</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'><a href="tp://forums.matronics.com"
moz-do-not-send=true>tp://forums.matronics.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></
font></b></pre></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><
b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.
0pt;font-weight:
bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></pre></blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><
b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>href=<a
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://www.aeroelectric.com/"</a>><
a
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.aeroelectric.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>href=<a href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://www.buildersbooks.com/"</a>>
<a
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.buildersbooks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font
></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>href=<a href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"</a>>
<a
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.homebuilthelp.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font
></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>href=<a href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://www.mypilotstore.com/"</a>><
a
href="http://www.mypilotstore.com"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.mypilotstore.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font>
</b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>href=<a href="http://www.mrrace.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://www.mrrace.com/"</a>><a
href="http://www.mrrace.com"
moz-do-not-send=true>www.mrrace.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></
pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>href=<a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
</a>><a
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a><o:p></o
:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>href=<a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElec
tric-List"</a>><a
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-L
ist</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
bold'>href=<a href="http://forums.matronics.com/"
moz-do-not-send=true>"http://forums.matronics.com/"</a>><
a
href="http://forums.matronics.com"
moz-do-not-send=true>http://forums.matronics.com</a><o:p></o:p></span>
</font></b></pre></div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New
Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><
b><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: IMC Approval? |
Well Put OC,
But I expect that from you! <G>
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 11/23/2013 11:40:04 A.M. Central Standard Time,
bakerocb@cox.net writes:
11/23/2013
Hello Bill, You wrote (see copied below): =9CWhy a chill?=9D
A chill because there is no such thing as applying for IFR or IMC
approval for experimental amateur built aircraft in the USA.**
Any attempt to obtain such approval from the FAA by some individual
builder can only lead to confusion and intrusion into an aspect of amateur
building that could do significant harm to our community.
Can we obtain further information on the provenance of the airplane that
you were asking about?
Thanks,
OC
**PS: Here is how the IFR capability of an experimental amateur built
aircraft built and certificated in the USA is resolved: Per FAA Order 813
0.2G
the Operating Limitations, which are part of the Special Airworthiness
Certificate of that aircraft, will state:
=9C(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriate
ly
equipped for night
and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR =C2=A7 91.205, this air
craft
is to be operated under
VFR, day only.
(9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 14 CFR =C2
=A7
91.205 must
be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of 14 CFR
part 91. Any
maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
aircraft logbook and
maintenance records.=9D
Note that:
A) Passing an inspection or obtaining approval for the appropriate
equipment referred to above in the Operating Limitations is not a required
part of
the initial airworthiness inspection of the experimental amateur built
aircraft.
B) The builder / operator / pilot is the one who determines whether or not
the aircraft is appropriately equipped after referring to the appropriate
requirements of 14 CFR Part 91. There are some caveats to this statement.
Please see the attachment for further explanation and let me know if you ha
ve
any questions. Thanks.
==============
From: _Bill Allen_ (mailto:billallensworld@gmail.com)
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: IMC Approval?
Hi OC,
you wrote; << This question sent a chill up my spine > Why a chill?
<<Are you asking about an experimental amateur built airplane that is
being built in the United States of America?>> I had presumed, perhaps
erroneously, that this was a UK aircraft
Bill
=======
On 23 November 2013 14:05, Owen Baker <_bakerocb@cox.net_
(mailto:bakerocb@cox.net) > wrote:
11/23/2013
Hello Bill Allen, You wrote: =9CIs this the RV for which you're appl
ying for
your IMC approval?=9D
This question sent a chill up my spine. Are you asking about an
experimental amateur built airplane that is being built in the United Stat
es of
America?
Thanks,
OC
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather
and understand information."
=======
Time: 04:19:26 PM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
From: Bill Allen <_billallensworld@gmail.com_
(mailto:billallensworld@gmail.com) >
Yes, this is the shade I'll go with too.
Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval?
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: IMC Approval? |
What is more, OC , and all, (please correct, if wrong) it does not appear, nor
am I aware of any IFR approval or certification even for certified AC. Certified
AC do not (have to) come IFR capable. IFR flights and/or IFR filing for any
AC are legal as long as the AC meets the IFR required equipment requirements
and testing (monthly VOR test, current GPS data bases, 24 months pitot-static
and transponder, etc.). The IFR required equipment may have been installed initially
or much later and is not part of the AW cert. I wasnt aware that this needs
to be applied for for OBAM, if true.
Rumen
---- Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
============
11/23/2013
Hello Bill, You wrote (see copied below): Why a chill?
A chill because there is no such thing as applying for IFR or IMC approval for
experimental amateur built aircraft in the USA.**
Any attempt to obtain such approval from the FAA by some individual builder can
only lead to confusion and intrusion into an aspect of amateur building that
could do significant harm to our community.
Can we obtain further information on the provenance of the airplane that you were
asking about?
Thanks,
OC
**PS: Here is how the IFR capability of an experimental amateur built aircraft
built and certificated in the USA is resolved: Per FAA Order 8130.2G the Operating
Limitations, which are part of the Special Airworthiness Certificate of
that aircraft, will state:
(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for
night
and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR 91.205, this aircraft is to
be operated under
VFR, day only.
(9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 14 CFR 91.205
must
be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of 14 CFR part
91. Any
maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft logbook
and
maintenance records.
Note that:
A) Passing an inspection or obtaining approval for the appropriate equipment referred
to above in the Operating Limitations is not a required part of the initial
airworthiness inspection of the experimental amateur built aircraft.
B) The builder / operator / pilot is the one who determines whether or not the
aircraft is appropriately equipped after referring to the appropriate requirements
of 14 CFR Part 91. There are some caveats to this statement. Please see the
attachment for further explanation and let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks.
==============
From: Bill Allen
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: IMC Approval?
Hi OC,
you wrote; << This question sent a chill up my spine > Why a chill?
<<Are you asking about an experimental amateur built airplane that is being built
in the United States of America?>> I had presumed, perhaps erroneously, that
this was a UK aircraft
Bill
=======
On 23 November 2013 14:05, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
11/23/2013
Hello Bill Allen, You wrote: Is this the RV for which you're applying for your
IMC approval?
This question sent a chill up my spine. Are you asking about an experimental
amateur built airplane that is being built in the United States of America?
Thanks,
OC
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather and
understand information."
=======
Time: 04:19:26 PM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
From: Bill Allen <billallensworld@gmail.com>
Yes, this is the shade I'll go with too.
Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval?
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor |
let's try this. HEre's a link:
http://www.aircraftersllc.com/docs/Garmin%20Suggestion.png
Tim
--------
Tim Farrell
Aircrafters
831-722-9141
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413889#413889
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: IMC Approval? |
Good Afternoon Owen,
One small potential clarification, though it may not be needed. You mention
the necessity for "current GPS databases". May just be semantics, but the
entire database is not required to be current, just the data being used.
If you are flying with an out dated card, but find that the data in the
card you have is current for the function you wish to use, you can fly IFR
with an out of date data card. That can be handy when you are away from h
ome
and the new datacard is not available. That provision can also be utilized
to fly IFR with some older GPS sets where the new databases are no longer
available. Pretty limiting most of the time, but the basis for using
current data that is on an outdated datacard was clarified in the AIM in 2
010.
As Always, It All Depends!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park
Downers Grove, IL
In a message dated 11/23/2013 1:43:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,
rd2@dejazzd.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rd2@dejazzd.com>
What is more, OC , and all, (please correct, if wrong) it does not appear,
nor am I aware of any IFR =9Capproval=9D or =9Ccertifica
tion=9D even for
certified AC. Certified AC do not (have to) come IFR =9Ccapable
=9D. IFR flights
and/or IFR filing for any AC are legal as long as the AC meets the IFR req
uired
equipment requirements and testing (monthly VOR test, current GPS data
bases, 24 months pitot-static and transponder, etc.). The IFR required
equipment may have been installed initially or much later and is not part
of the AW
cert. I wasn=99t aware that this needs to be applied for for OBAM, i
f true.
Rumen
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: panel colour? |
Yes she did. I keeps up well with no visible signs of wear but I don't
think much of the glare shield design in general. It's a padded or
insulated fabric cover that stays comfortable to the touch. It doesn't
create any distracting reflections on the windshield. It fits but it
always seems a bit sloppy.
Personally, I pay no attention to it and it's faded into my mental
background, which is a good thing. If I knew how to fabricate a well
functioning but better looking glare shield, I'd probably not order that
piece from Abby and do my own. But I don't have a clue. I couldn't
even list the functional requirements for the piece.
Bill
On 11/23/2013 1:52 PM, jan wrote:
>
> Hi Bill Watson,
>
> Did Abby do the glare shield cover ? Does it keep up well or have you
> had any issues with it ??
>
> Jan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill Watson
> *Sent:* 23 November 2013 17:57
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>
> FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light brown/tan to match the rest of
> my interior. It was a high gloss polyurethane. No regrets with the
> paint, gloss or color after 350 hours. including plenty of IFR work.
>
> My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers. My eye
> comfort and performance seems to exclusively be a product of screen
> quality and and their brightness (especially at night).
>
> I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from
> the flash). Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the
> only regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS
> screen (they are GRT HXs). I should have put the left and center EFIS
> close together. The distance between the two screens makes it
> uncomfortable to use the center EFIS as a moving map. Instead I have
> to split my left hand unit to get a PFD and moving map on the same
> screen.
>
> Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent ones" Watson
>
> On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know
>> what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did
>> research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the
>> wheel.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River,MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>>
>> On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
>>
>>> RayJ,
>>>
>>> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all
>>> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US
>>> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army.
>>>
>>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>>> Bob Borger
>>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
>>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>>> rlborger@mac.com <mailto:rlborger@mac.com>
>>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their
>>> cockpits?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Raymond Julian
>>> Kettle River,MN.
>>>
>>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>>>
>>> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk
>>>> <mailto:jan@claver.demon.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>
>>>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of
>>>> RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I like ..
>>>>
>>>> RAL 7031
>>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf
>>>> Of *Bill Allen
>>>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17
>>>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour?
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have
>>>> to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an
>>>> electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle
>>>> of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works
>>>> ergonomically and aesthetically.
>>>>
>>>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too
>>>> colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?
>>>>
>>>> Any advice?
>>>>
>>>> Bill Allen
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>> * *
>>>> *www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>*
>>>> *www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>*
>>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>*
>>>> *www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>*
>>>> *www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com/>*
>>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>>> *http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>*
>>>> * *
>>>> * *
>>>> *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>*
>>>> *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>*
>>>> *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>*
>>>> *="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>*
>>>> *ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com/>*
>>>> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>>> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>>> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>> *href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/" <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>>www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>*
>>> *href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/" <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>>www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>*
>>> *href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/" <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>>www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>*
>>> *href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/" <http://www.mypilotstore.com/>>www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>*
>>> *href="http://www.mrrace.com/" <http://www.mrrace.com/>>www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>*
>>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com/" <http://forums.matronics.com/>>http://forums.matronics.com*
>>>
>>> * *
>>> * *
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>
> *
>
> *
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: A clarification on relay/contactor coil suppression |
How the hell did you figure that out? (did it require sacrificing a
chicken or a deal with the devil? -- or was it Divine
Inspiration?) Sometimes I have to chase down some pretty hairy bugs
in software but that arcing problem would have kept me up at night.
I don't think I lost any sleep over it but it WAS
an interesting study. The really buggy thing about it
was the tiny amount of damage to contacts that were
sticking. This was a really low energy event with some
magic signature as yet un-identified.
Emacs!
The hardest part of the study was to get the problem
to duplicate on the bench. All the relay suppliers
were stumped. I worked on it for about a year and
a half (part time . . . skunk werks in my basement)
and getting a lot of inconclusive measurements off
the airplane before I decided to try duplicating the
wiring in the airplane. THEN things started to happen.
http://tinyurl.com/pstsggm
After that, it was a matter of sifting the physics. Even
after I began to get the relays to stick on the bench,
it was probably another several months before I was
able to put all the pieces together. These kinds
of things seldom jump off the bench and into your
lap.
>Zeners:
>
>Others have suggested the use of a bi-directional Zener. What is
>the benefit, either theoretical or actual, of using such a
>device? I'm not clear on what benefit the Zener provides nor do I
>understand what bi-directional buys you.
>
>(In your answer please speak slowly and use small words;)
Emacs!
The 'plain vanilla' approach (A) clamps the coil collapse
EMF off at about 1/2 volt (junction drop of the simple
diode). Time constant for current in an inductor is T = L/R.
Effective R of simple diode+coil is lowest; hence T is longest.
A single zener can be added to raise clamping voltage to
a higher level and raising the L/R time constant.
To make this work, the zener wants to be reverse biased
during spike time. A diode must be included to prevent
the zener from being forward biased when the relay is
energized as in (B).
Any time (A) or (B) is built into the suppressed
device, the coil terminals become polarity sensitive.
and (+) terminal must be marked and observed by the
installer.
In (C) we see two zeners back to back. In this case,
spike energy is clamped off at the same voltage but
the network can be included inside the device without
having to observe polarity of coil connections.
You can purchase two-junction transient suppressors
as 'bi-directional' devices.
http://tinyurl.com/kobtg8o
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim |
Motor
At 02:47 PM 11/23/2013, you wrote:
><tim@aircraftersllc.com>
>
>let's try this. HEre's a link:
>
>http://www.aircraftersllc.com/docs/Garmin%20Suggestion.png
Hmmmm . . . you need to know the nature of Gramin's
PWM philosophy.
NORMALLY . . . pwm means applying a consistent voltage
to a motor where duty cycle is adjusted to move the
motor at any speed from zero to max.
But in systems like the Beechjet (BIG motors with
brakes on them) one cannot get slow, steady motion
from the motor by fooling it into believing that
the supply voltage has dropped. These systems accomplish
precise control by PULSING the motor at full voltage
with varying lengths of time.
I did a study on Beechjets to characterize pitch
trim performance at Mach cruise to see how short
the pulses could be and STILL move the trim system
but not so long as to be noticed by passengers and
crew in the seat of their pants.
Turns out 133 mS was the 'magic' number. If you're
going to control your high current motor through
relays, then you are most definitely limited to
a full-voltage pulsed mode as opposed to the variable
duty cycle so-motion mode.
Question: Does the Garmin system really work in the
PWM mode or PULSED mode?
This can be done with relays . . . having very fast
response times. This might be a case for installing
the zener-based coil suppression. But the ideal
buffer will be solid state. This raises the questions
I cited earlier about prophylactic measures against
unintended motion.
Bob . . .
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