---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/23/13: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:09 AM - Re: panel colour? (Sacha) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj) 3. 05:38 AM - Re: panel colour? (Robert Borger) 4. 05:46 AM - Re: panel colour? (Harley) 5. 06:29 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj) 6. 07:15 AM - Re: panel colour? (Robert Borger) 7. 07:45 AM - Ignition switch (Jay Bannister) 8. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Jeff Luckey) 9. 08:17 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj) 10. 08:37 AM - Re: panel colour? (Robert Borger) 11. 08:57 AM - Re: panel colour? (rayj) 12. 09:11 AM - Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 09:26 AM - Re: Ignition switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 09:38 AM - Re: IMC Approval? (Owen Baker) 16. 09:58 AM - Re: panel colour? (Bill Watson) 17. 10:43 AM - Re: panel colour? (jan) 18. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: IMC Approval? (BobsV35B@aol.com) 19. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: IMC Approval? () 20. 12:48 PM - Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (tfarrell839) 21. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: IMC Approval? (BobsV35B@aol.com) 22. 01:42 PM - Re: panel colour? (Bill Watson) 23. 02:09 PM - Re: A clarification on relay/contactor coil suppression (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 24. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? From: Sacha ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:07 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? Greetings, Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their cockpits? do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: > Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. > > Bill > > > On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan > wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of > RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I like .. > > RAL 7031 > > Jan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > ] *On Behalf > Of *Bill Allen > *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17 > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour? > > Hi All, > > I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have > to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an > electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle > of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works > ergonomically and aesthetically. > > I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too > colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? > > Any advice? > > Bill Allen > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com * > > *www.buildersbooks.com * > > *www.homebuilthelp.com * > > *www.mypilotstore.com * > > *www.mrrace.com * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com > ank">www.mrrace.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > * > > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? From: Robert Borger RayJ, The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don=92t know about the US Army. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj wrote: Greetings, Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their cockpits? do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: > Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. > > Bill > > > On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan wrote: > Hi Bill, > > > In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of RAL colour codes =85 You can Google it =85 Here is one that I like .. > > > RAL 7031 > > > Jan > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Allen > Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? > > > Hi All, > > > I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically. > > > I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? > > > Any advice? > > > Bill Allen > > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.buildersbooks.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > www.mypilotstore.com > www.mrrace.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com > ank">www.mrrace.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:32 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:05 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > RayJ, > > The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all > the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US > Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj > wrote: > > Greetings, > > Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their > cockpits? > > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: >> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. >> >> Bill >> >> >> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan > > wrote: >> >> Hi Bill, >> >> >> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot >> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I >> like .. >> >> >> RAL 7031 >> >> >> Jan >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> ] *On Behalf >> Of *Bill Allen >> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17 >> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> >> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour? >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I >> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly >> an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual >> pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour >> that works ergonomically and aesthetically. >> >> >> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too >> colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? >> >> >> Any advice? >> >> >> Bill Allen >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *www.aeroelectric.com * >> >> *www.buildersbooks.com * >> >> *www.homebuilthelp.com * >> >> *www.mypilotstore.com * >> >> *www.mrrace.com * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> ank">www.mrrace.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> >> * >> >> * > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com > href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? From: Robert Borger RayJ, I=92d call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny. Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described a similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor. Bob On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj wrote: Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > RayJ, > > The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don=92t know about the US Army. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj wrote: > > Greetings, > > Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their cockpits? > > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: >> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. >> >> Bill >> >> >> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan wrote: >> Hi Bill, >> >> >> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of RAL colour codes =85 You can Google it =85 Here is one that I like .. >> >> >> RAL 7031 >> >> >> Jan >> >> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Allen >> Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17 >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically. >> >> >> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? >> >> >> Any advice? >> >> >> Bill Allen >> >> >> >> www.aeroelectric.com >> www.buildersbooks.com >> www.homebuilthelp.com >> www.mypilotstore.com >> www.mrrace.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> ank">www.mrrace.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com > href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:02 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ignition switch From: Jay Bannister Hey Bob, My friend is building a Zodiac 601XLB with a Jabiru 3300 engine. He is usi ng the Bendix-type, 5-position mag switch. Since the Jabiru does not have an impulse coupled m ag, the jumper between the switch terminals =9CR=9D and the adjacent =9C GND=9D were not connected. Engine running, with the switch wired as you recommended, the engine would quit when =9CR=9D was selected. This made absolutely no sense to me. At wits end, I asked for and you sent me a diagram showing the switch inter nal connections. However I have to conclude that the diagram is wrong. Let's call the center ground Terminal "GND C" and the other one Ground R " GND R". "GND C" is grounded at the engine through the shields, a "true" ground. A jumper connects terminal "R" and "GND R", not a true ground. When the switch is in the first Start position the "R" terminal is open, ma king the right mag hot. When the switch is turned to Start, cranking position, "GND C" is connecte d to "GND R". Since "GND R" and "R" are connected, the "R" terminal is now grounded, kill ing the Right Mag. That simply can't be right; or I am reading the diagram wrong. I had one of those =9Cwhat if we do this?=9D moments and put a jumper between =9CR=9D and =9CGND R=9D. Contrary to all logic, that made everything work as it should. What am I missing? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:21 AM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor Tim,=0A=0AThat's not quite the answer I was looking for.- But rather than try to figure out what's happening via text in emails, let's start w/ what ever diagrams you have.- Then we can drill deeper as necessary.=0A=0AStan ding by until you post the link ...=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________ _______=0A From: tfarrell839 =0ATo: aeroelectric-li st@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, November 22, 2013 10:16 PM=0ASubject: Aer oElectric-List: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor=0A rsllc.com>=0A=0AAs I understand it, yes it changes the polarity in the sens e that if it gets positive on pin 11 and negative on 12 then it will output positive on 13 an negative on 14 and vice versa. =0A=0AI don't know why th e attachment didn't come through. I see it here when I m on the list serve. I'll post a link tomorrow. =0A=0AThanks, =0A=0ATim=0A=0A--------=0ATim Far rell=0AAircrafters=0A831-722-9141=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here :=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413850#413850=0A=0A=0A =============== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:44 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? On the illuminated panel, what color was the illumination? Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/23/2013 09:14 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > RayJ, > > I'd call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny. > Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt > Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a > translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either > screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed > through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described > a similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor. > > Bob > > On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj > wrote: > > Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know > what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did > research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel. > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: >> RayJ, >> >> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all >> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US >> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj > > wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their >> cockpits? >> >> >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN. >> >> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: >>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> >>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot >>> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that >>> I like .. >>> >>> >>> RAL 7031 >>> >>> >>> Jan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> ] *On >>> Behalf Of *Bill Allen >>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17 >>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> >>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour? >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I >>> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly >>> an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual >>> pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour >>> that works ergonomically and aesthetically. >>> >>> >>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something >>> too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? >>> >>> >>> Any advice? >>> >>> >>> Bill Allen >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *www.aeroelectric.com * >>> >>> *www.buildersbooks.com * >>> >>> *www.homebuilthelp.com * >>> >>> *www.mypilotstore.com * >>> >>> *www.mrrace.com * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://forums.matronics.com * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * >>> >>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>> ank">www.mrrace.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com >> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> * >> >> * > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com > href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? From: Robert Borger RayJ, White Bob On Nov 23, 2013, at 10:16 AM, rayj wrote: On the illuminated panel, what color was the illumination? Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/23/2013 09:14 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > RayJ, > > I=92d call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny. Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described a similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor. > > Bob > > On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj wrote: > > Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel. > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: >> RayJ, >> >> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don=92t know about the US Army. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their cockpits? >> >> >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN. >> >> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: >>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan wrote: >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> >>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of RAL colour codes =85 You can Google it =85 Here is one that I like .. >>> >>> >>> RAL 7031 >>> >>> >>> Jan >>> >>> >>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Allen >>> Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17 >>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically. >>> >>> >>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? >>> >>> >>> Any advice? >>> >>> >>> Bill Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> www.aeroelectric.com >>> www.buildersbooks.com >>> www.homebuilthelp.com >>> www.mypilotstore.com >>> www.mrrace.com >>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> >>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>> ank">www.mrrace.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com >> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com > href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:12 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? Thanks very much for the info. I don't think I'll try the illuminated style, but I'll definitely be using the grey color for the instrument panel. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/23/2013 10:36 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > RayJ, > > White > > Bob > > On Nov 23, 2013, at 10:16 AM, rayj > wrote: > > On the illuminated panel, what color was the illumination? > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > On 11/23/2013 09:14 AM, Robert Borger wrote: >> RayJ, >> >> I'd call the finish a semi-gloss. Not truly flat but not shiny. >> Labeling was black, in a simple san-serif, Something like this 14pt >> Arial Rounded MT Bold. The later aircraft went to grey over a >> translucent plastic that was back or edge lit and the text was either >> screened out or removed in some way so that the illumination showed >> through the text. That was a nice panel. Other folks have described >> a similar panel type that can be done today from the right vendor. >> >> Bob >> >> On Nov 23, 2013, at 8:28 AM, rayj > > wrote: >> >> Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know >> what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did >> research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the >> wheel. >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN. >> >> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >> On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: >>> RayJ, >>> >>> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all >>> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US >>> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army. >>> >>> Blue skies & tailwinds, >>> Bob Borger >>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >>> Cel: 817-992-1117 >>> rlborger@mac.com >>> >>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj >> > wrote: >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their >>> cockpits? >>> >>> >>> Raymond Julian >>> Kettle River, MN. >>> >>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >>> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: >>>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Bill, >>>> >>>> >>>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot >>>> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that >>>> I like .. >>>> >>>> >>>> RAL 7031 >>>> >>>> >>>> Jan >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>>> >>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>>> ] *On >>>> Behalf Of *Bill Allen >>>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17 >>>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>>> >>>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour? >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> >>>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I >>>> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not >>>> strictly an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the >>>> visual pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a >>>> colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically. >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something >>>> too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? >>>> >>>> >>>> Any advice? >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill Allen >>>> >>>> * * >>>> >>>> * * >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *www.aeroelectric.com * >>>> >>>> *www.buildersbooks.com * >>>> >>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com * >>>> >>>> *www.mypilotstore.com * >>>> >>>> *www.mrrace.com * >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *http://forums.matronics.com * >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>>> ank">www.mrrace.com >>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com >>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com >>> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com >>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >>> * >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com >> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> * >> >> * > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com > href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor So finally, my question: Can we use FETs, an H Bridge (which i don't fully understand) or something else to amplify the current proportionally to the PWM signal? You've identified the fact that your "current boost" methodology needs to be solid-state fast. Relays won't cut it. I should add, we have two sticks, each with trim control. The legacy system that is in there has Bosch type relays that control the trim. Figure C-1.6 suggests that manual trim commands are simply looped through the GX3 hardware when the autopilot is disengaged. I am including a schematic for a possible recommendation from Garmin. The caveat to this installation is that it seems we would have to run the trim at full speed all the time. Yes, you can craft an h-bridge amplifier to boost the G3X output to drive the trim motor. It appears that GS28 servos from Garmin have built in run-time limiting features. I suspect that no such feature is offered internal to the G3X. The h-brige buffer is not a big deal, probably less than $10 worth of parts. But such a device puts major silicon downstream of the G3x in a manner that no existing run-time limiting can control. How handy are you with a soldering iron and would you want to consider building a run-time-limited buffer amplifier from scratch? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor At 09:50 AM 11/23/2013, you wrote: >Tim, > >That's not quite the answer I was looking for. But rather than try >to figure out what's happening via text in emails, let's start w/ >whatever diagrams you have. Then we can drill deeper as necessary. > >Standing by until you post the link ... The entire g3x manual is available at http://tinyurl.com/l88273j Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ignition switch At 09:43 AM 11/23/2013, you wrote: Hey Bob, My friend is building a Zodiac 601XLB with a Jabiru 3300 engine. He is using the Bendix-type, 5-position mag switch. Since the Jabiru does not have an impulse coupled mag, the jumper between the switch terminals R and the adjacent GND were not connected. Engine running, with the switch wired as you recommended, the engine would quit when R was selected. This made absolutely no sense to me. At wits end, I asked for and you sent me a diagram showing the switch internal connections. However I have to conclude that the diagram is wrong. Let's call the center ground Terminal "GND C" and the other one Ground R "GND R". "GND C" is grounded at the engine through the shields, a "true" ground. A jumper connects terminal "R" and "GND R", not a true ground. When the switch is in the first Start position the "R" terminal is open, making the right mag hot. When the switch is turned to Start, cranking position, "GND C" is connected to "GND R". Since "GND R" and "R" are connected, the "R" terminal is now grounded, killing the Right Mag. That simply can't be right; or I am reading the diagram wrong. I had one of those "what if we do this?" moments and put a jumper between R and GND R. Contrary to all logic, that made everything work as it should. What am I missing? The diagram in for the OFF-L-R-BOTH-START key switch in Z-27 and elsewhere is for the Gerdes/ACS A510-2 switch. What's the part number/brand on the switch you have? I'm unaware of any variations on a theme for these switches but they've been manufactured for many decades. If things are working as you wish, then it's hard to argue with success . . . even when the details for that success are not undnerstood. If you do have some variant switch, I wouldn't mind seeing it and getting the data off it. Is it a legacy 510-1? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:28 AM PST US From: "Owen Baker " Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: IMC Approval? 11/23/2013 Hello Bill, You wrote (see copied below): =93Why a chill?=94 A chill because there is no such thing as applying for IFR or IMC approval for experimental amateur built aircraft in the USA.** Any attempt to obtain such approval from the FAA by some individual builder can only lead to confusion and intrusion into an aspect of amateur building that could do significant harm to our community. Can we obtain further information on the provenance of the airplane that you were asking about? Thanks, OC **PS: Here is how the IFR capability of an experimental amateur built aircraft built and certificated in the USA is resolved: Per FAA Order 8130.2G the Operating Limitations, which are part of the Special Airworthiness Certificate of that aircraft, will state: =93(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR =A7 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only. (9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 14 CFR =A7 91.205 must be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of 14 CFR part 91. Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records.=94 Note that: A) Passing an inspection or obtaining approval for the appropriate equipment referred to above in the Operating Limitations is not a required part of the initial airworthiness inspection of the experimental amateur built aircraft. B) The builder / operator / pilot is the one who determines whether or not the aircraft is appropriately equipped after referring to the appropriate requirements of 14 CFR Part 91. There are some caveats to this statement. Please see the attachment for further explanation and let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. ============== From: Bill Allen Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:42 AM Subject: Re: IMC Approval? Hi OC, you wrote; << This question sent a chill up my spine > Why a chill? <> I had presumed, perhaps erroneously, that this was a UK aircraft Bill ======= On 23 November 2013 14:05, Owen Baker wrote: 11/23/2013 Hello Bill Allen, You wrote: =93Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval?=94 This question sent a chill up my spine. Are you asking about an experimental amateur built airplane that is being built in the United States of America? Thanks, OC 'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather and understand information." ======= Time: 04:19:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? From: Bill Allen Yes, this is the shade I'll go with too. Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:42 AM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light brown/tan to match the rest of my interior. It was a high gloss polyurethane. No regrets with the paint, gloss or color after 350 hours. including plenty of IFR work. My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers. My eye comfort and performance seems to exclusively be a product of screen quality and and their brightness (especially at night). I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from the flash). Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the only regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS screen (they are GRT HXs). I should have put the left and center EFIS close together. The distance between the two screens makes it uncomfortable to use the center EFIS as a moving map. Instead I have to split my left hand unit to get a PFD and moving map on the same screen. Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent ones" Watson On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote: > Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know > what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did > research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel. > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: >> RayJ, >> >> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all >> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US >> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj > > wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their >> cockpits? >> >> >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN. >> >> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: >>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> >>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot >>> of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I >>> like .. >>> >>> >>> RAL 7031 >>> >>> >>> Jan >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>> ] *On >>> Behalf Of *Bill Allen >>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17 >>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>> >>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour? >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I >>> have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly >>> an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual >>> pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour >>> that works ergonomically and aesthetically. >>> >>> >>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something >>> too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? >>> >>> >>> Any advice? >>> >>> >>> Bill Allen >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *www.aeroelectric.com * >>> >>> *www.buildersbooks.com * >>> >>> *www.homebuilthelp.com * >>> >>> *www.mypilotstore.com * >>> >>> *www.mrrace.com * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://forums.matronics.com * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * >>> >>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>> ank">www.mrrace.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> * >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com >> href="http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> * >> >> * > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:05 AM PST US From: jan Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? Hi Bill Watson, Did Abby do the glare shield cover ? Does it keep up well or have you had any issues with it ?? Jan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson Sent: 23 November 2013 17:57 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light brown/tan to match the rest of my interior. It was a high gloss polyurethane. No regrets with the paint, gloss or color after 350 hours. including plenty of IFR work. My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers. My eye comfort and performance seems to exclusively be a product of screen quality and and their brightness (especially at night). I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from the flash). Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the only regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS screen (they are GRT HXs). I should have put the left and center EFIS close together. The distance between the two screens makes it uncomfortable to use the center EFIS as a moving map. Instead I have to split my left hand unit to get a PFD and moving map on the same screen. Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent ones" Watson On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote: Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: RayJ, The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj > wrote: Greetings, Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their cockpits? Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. Bill On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan > wrote: Hi Bill, In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I like .. RAL 7031 Jan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Allen Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17 Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? Hi All, I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically. I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? Any advice? Bill Allen www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com www.mypilotstore.com www.mrrace.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tp://forums.matronics.com href= "http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com href= "http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com href= "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com href= "http://www.mypilotstore.com/">www.mypilotstore.com href= "http://www.mrrace.com/">www.mrrace.com href= "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n href= "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href= "http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

Hi Bill Watson,

 

Did Abby do the glare shield cover ?  Does it keep up well or have you had any issues with it ??

 

Jan

 

 

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Watson
Sent: 23 November 2013 17:57
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?

 

FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light brown/tan to match the rest of my interior.  It was a high gloss polyurethane.  No regrets with the paint, gloss or color after 350 hours. including plenty of IFR work.

My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers.  My eye comfort and performance seems to exclusively be a product of  screen quality and and their brightness (especially at night).

I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from the flash).  Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the only regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS screen (they are GRT HXs).  I should have put the left and center EFIS close together.  The distance between the two screens makes it uncomfortable to use the center EFIS as a moving map.  Instead I have to split my left hand unit to get a PFD and moving map  on the same screen.

Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent ones" Watson

On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote:

Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish.  Do you know what color and size text was used for labeling?  I assume they did research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the wheel.

Raymond 
Julian
Kettle River, 
MN.
 
"And you know that I could have me a 
million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of 
view." - John Prine

On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote:

RayJ,

 

The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all the aircraft I was associated with while I was in.  I believe the US Navy uses the same or a similar grey.  Don’t know about the US Army.

 

Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX  76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com

 

On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:

 

Greetings,

Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their cockpits?



Raymond 
Julian
Kettle River, 
MN.
 
"And you know that I could have me a 
million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of 
view." - John Prine

On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote:

Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of.

 

Bill

 

On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan <jan@claver.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Bill,

 

In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of RAL colour codes … You can Google it …  Here is one that I like ..

 

RAL 7031

 

Jan

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Allen
Sent: 22 November 2013 12:17
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: panel colour?

 

Hi All,

 

I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works ergonomically and aesthetically.

 

I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue?

 

Any advice?

 

Bill Allen

 
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________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:38 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: IMC Approval? Well Put OC, But I expect that from you! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 11/23/2013 11:40:04 A.M. Central Standard Time, bakerocb@cox.net writes: 11/23/2013 Hello Bill, You wrote (see copied below): =9CWhy a chill?=9D A chill because there is no such thing as applying for IFR or IMC approval for experimental amateur built aircraft in the USA.** Any attempt to obtain such approval from the FAA by some individual builder can only lead to confusion and intrusion into an aspect of amateur building that could do significant harm to our community. Can we obtain further information on the provenance of the airplane that you were asking about? Thanks, OC **PS: Here is how the IFR capability of an experimental amateur built aircraft built and certificated in the USA is resolved: Per FAA Order 813 0.2G the Operating Limitations, which are part of the Special Airworthiness Certificate of that aircraft, will state: =9C(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriate ly equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR =C2=A7 91.205, this air craft is to be operated under VFR, day only. (9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 14 CFR =C2 =A7 91.205 must be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of 14 CFR part 91. Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records.=9D Note that: A) Passing an inspection or obtaining approval for the appropriate equipment referred to above in the Operating Limitations is not a required part of the initial airworthiness inspection of the experimental amateur built aircraft. B) The builder / operator / pilot is the one who determines whether or not the aircraft is appropriately equipped after referring to the appropriate requirements of 14 CFR Part 91. There are some caveats to this statement. Please see the attachment for further explanation and let me know if you ha ve any questions. Thanks. ============== From: _Bill Allen_ (mailto:billallensworld@gmail.com) Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:42 AM Subject: Re: IMC Approval? Hi OC, you wrote; << This question sent a chill up my spine > Why a chill? <> I had presumed, perhaps erroneously, that this was a UK aircraft Bill ======= On 23 November 2013 14:05, Owen Baker <_bakerocb@cox.net_ (mailto:bakerocb@cox.net) > wrote: 11/23/2013 Hello Bill Allen, You wrote: =9CIs this the RV for which you're appl ying for your IMC approval?=9D This question sent a chill up my spine. Are you asking about an experimental amateur built airplane that is being built in the United Stat es of America? Thanks, OC 'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather and understand information." ======= Time: 04:19:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? From: Bill Allen <_billallensworld@gmail.com_ (mailto:billallensworld@gmail.com) > Yes, this is the shade I'll go with too. Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval? ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:22 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: IMC Approval? What is more, OC , and all, (please correct, if wrong) it does not appear, nor am I aware of any IFR approval or certification even for certified AC. Certified AC do not (have to) come IFR capable. IFR flights and/or IFR filing for any AC are legal as long as the AC meets the IFR required equipment requirements and testing (monthly VOR test, current GPS data bases, 24 months pitot-static and transponder, etc.). The IFR required equipment may have been installed initially or much later and is not part of the AW cert. I wasnt aware that this needs to be applied for for OBAM, if true. Rumen ---- Owen Baker wrote: ============ 11/23/2013 Hello Bill, You wrote (see copied below): Why a chill? A chill because there is no such thing as applying for IFR or IMC approval for experimental amateur built aircraft in the USA.** Any attempt to obtain such approval from the FAA by some individual builder can only lead to confusion and intrusion into an aspect of amateur building that could do significant harm to our community. Can we obtain further information on the provenance of the airplane that you were asking about? Thanks, OC **PS: Here is how the IFR capability of an experimental amateur built aircraft built and certificated in the USA is resolved: Per FAA Order 8130.2G the Operating Limitations, which are part of the Special Airworthiness Certificate of that aircraft, will state: (8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only. (9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 14 CFR 91.205 must be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of 14 CFR part 91. Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records. Note that: A) Passing an inspection or obtaining approval for the appropriate equipment referred to above in the Operating Limitations is not a required part of the initial airworthiness inspection of the experimental amateur built aircraft. B) The builder / operator / pilot is the one who determines whether or not the aircraft is appropriately equipped after referring to the appropriate requirements of 14 CFR Part 91. There are some caveats to this statement. Please see the attachment for further explanation and let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. ============== From: Bill Allen Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:42 AM Subject: Re: IMC Approval? Hi OC, you wrote; << This question sent a chill up my spine > Why a chill? <> I had presumed, perhaps erroneously, that this was a UK aircraft Bill ======= On 23 November 2013 14:05, Owen Baker wrote: 11/23/2013 Hello Bill Allen, You wrote: Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval? This question sent a chill up my spine. Are you asking about an experimental amateur built airplane that is being built in the United States of America? Thanks, OC 'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather and understand information." ======= Time: 04:19:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? From: Bill Allen Yes, this is the shade I'll go with too. Is this the RV for which you're applying for your IMC approval? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:43 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor From: "tfarrell839" let's try this. HEre's a link: http://www.aircraftersllc.com/docs/Garmin%20Suggestion.png Tim -------- Tim Farrell Aircrafters 831-722-9141 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413889#413889 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:14 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: IMC Approval? Good Afternoon Owen, One small potential clarification, though it may not be needed. You mention the necessity for "current GPS databases". May just be semantics, but the entire database is not required to be current, just the data being used. If you are flying with an out dated card, but find that the data in the card you have is current for the function you wish to use, you can fly IFR with an out of date data card. That can be handy when you are away from h ome and the new datacard is not available. That provision can also be utilized to fly IFR with some older GPS sets where the new databases are no longer available. Pretty limiting most of the time, but the basis for using current data that is on an outdated datacard was clarified in the AIM in 2 010. As Always, It All Depends! Happy Skies, Old Bob Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park Downers Grove, IL In a message dated 11/23/2013 1:43:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, rd2@dejazzd.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: What is more, OC , and all, (please correct, if wrong) it does not appear, nor am I aware of any IFR =9Capproval=9D or =9Ccertifica tion=9D even for certified AC. Certified AC do not (have to) come IFR =9Ccapable =9D. IFR flights and/or IFR filing for any AC are legal as long as the AC meets the IFR req uired equipment requirements and testing (monthly VOR test, current GPS data bases, 24 months pitot-static and transponder, etc.). The IFR required equipment may have been installed initially or much later and is not part of the AW cert. I wasn=99t aware that this needs to be applied for for OBAM, i f true. Rumen ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:33 PM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? Yes she did. I keeps up well with no visible signs of wear but I don't think much of the glare shield design in general. It's a padded or insulated fabric cover that stays comfortable to the touch. It doesn't create any distracting reflections on the windshield. It fits but it always seems a bit sloppy. Personally, I pay no attention to it and it's faded into my mental background, which is a good thing. If I knew how to fabricate a well functioning but better looking glare shield, I'd probably not order that piece from Abby and do my own. But I don't have a clue. I couldn't even list the functional requirements for the piece. Bill On 11/23/2013 1:52 PM, jan wrote: > > Hi Bill Watson, > > Did Abby do the glare shield cover ? Does it keep up well or have you > had any issues with it ?? > > Jan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Bill Watson > *Sent:* 23 November 2013 17:57 > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: panel colour? > > FWIW, I painted my RV10 panel a light brown/tan to match the rest of > my interior. It was a high gloss polyurethane. No regrets with the > paint, gloss or color after 350 hours. including plenty of IFR work. > > My panel is mostly glass panel, lit screens and lit rockers. My eye > comfort and performance seems to exclusively be a product of screen > quality and and their brightness (especially at night). > > I'll attempt to attach a pic of the panel (with plenty of glare from > the flash). Assuming the pic comes thru as intended, I'd add that the > only regret I have about the panel is placement of the center EFIS > screen (they are GRT HXs). I should have put the left and center EFIS > close together. The distance between the two screens makes it > uncomfortable to use the center EFIS as a moving map. Instead I have > to split my left hand unit to get a PFD and moving map on the same > screen. > > Bill "still needing to replace stuck on labels with permanent ones" Watson > > On 11/23/2013 9:28 AM, rayj wrote: > >> Thanks for the info. I assume it was in a flat finish. Do you know >> what color and size text was used for labeling? I assume they did >> research to determine what what was best, no reason to reinvent the >> wheel. >> >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River,MN. >> >> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >> >> On 11/23/2013 07:37 AM, Robert Borger wrote: >> >>> RayJ, >>> >>> The USAF used that 18% neutral grey, or maybe a bit lighter, in all >>> the aircraft I was associated with while I was in. I believe the US >>> Navy uses the same or a similar grey. Don't know about the US Army. >>> >>> Blue skies & tailwinds, >>> Bob Borger >>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >>> Cel: 817-992-1117 >>> rlborger@mac.com >>> >>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 7:06 AM, rayj >> > wrote: >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Does anyone know what color the military, any military, use in their >>> cockpits? >>> >>> >>> >>> Raymond Julian >>> Kettle River,MN. >>> >>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, >>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine >>> >>> On 11/22/2013 12:16 PM, Bill Allen wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Jan - it's a color I was thinking of. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> On 22 November 2013 17:47, jan >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Bill, >>>> >>>> In Europe for wet paint (or power for that matter) we use a lot of >>>> RAL colour codes ... You can Google it ... Here is one that I like .. >>>> >>>> RAL 7031 >>>> >>>> Jan >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>>> >>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >>>> ] *On Behalf >>>> Of *Bill Allen >>>> *Sent:* 22 November 2013 12:17 >>>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >>>> >>>> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: panel colour? >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I've just finished a new panel (aluminium) for a LongEz and I have >>>> to decide what colour to paint it. I know it's not strictly an >>>> electrical decision, but in terms of it being the visual pinnacle >>>> of all the electrical work behind it, I want a colour that works >>>> ergonomically and aesthetically. >>>> >>>> I'm leaning towards something other than black, but something too >>>> colourful. Perhaps a charcoal blue? >>>> >>>> Any advice? >>>> >>>> Bill Allen >>>> >>>> * * >>>> * * >>>> *www.aeroelectric.com * >>>> *www.buildersbooks.com * >>>> *www.homebuilthelp.com * >>>> *www.mypilotstore.com * >>>> *www.mrrace.com * >>>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >>>> *http://forums.matronics.com * >>>> * * >>>> * * >>>> *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com * >>>> *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com * >>>> *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com * >>>> *="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com * >>>> *ank">www.mrrace.com * >>>> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>>> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >>>> *tp://forums.matronics.com* >>>> >>>> * * >>>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> * * >>> *href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/" >www.aeroelectric.com * >>> *href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/" >www.buildersbooks.com * >>> *href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/" >www.homebuilthelp.com * >>> *href="http://www.mypilotstore.com/" >www.mypilotstore.com * >>> *href="http://www.mrrace.com/" >www.mrrace.com * >>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" >http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >>> *href="http://forums.matronics.com/" >http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> * * >>> * * >> >> * * >> * * > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:55 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: A clarification on relay/contactor coil suppression How the hell did you figure that out? (did it require sacrificing a chicken or a deal with the devil? -- or was it Divine Inspiration?) Sometimes I have to chase down some pretty hairy bugs in software but that arcing problem would have kept me up at night. I don't think I lost any sleep over it but it WAS an interesting study. The really buggy thing about it was the tiny amount of damage to contacts that were sticking. This was a really low energy event with some magic signature as yet un-identified. Emacs! The hardest part of the study was to get the problem to duplicate on the bench. All the relay suppliers were stumped. I worked on it for about a year and a half (part time . . . skunk werks in my basement) and getting a lot of inconclusive measurements off the airplane before I decided to try duplicating the wiring in the airplane. THEN things started to happen. http://tinyurl.com/pstsggm After that, it was a matter of sifting the physics. Even after I began to get the relays to stick on the bench, it was probably another several months before I was able to put all the pieces together. These kinds of things seldom jump off the bench and into your lap. >Zeners: > >Others have suggested the use of a bi-directional Zener. What is >the benefit, either theoretical or actual, of using such a >device? I'm not clear on what benefit the Zener provides nor do I >understand what bi-directional buys you. > >(In your answer please speak slowly and use small words;) Emacs! The 'plain vanilla' approach (A) clamps the coil collapse EMF off at about 1/2 volt (junction drop of the simple diode). Time constant for current in an inductor is T = L/R. Effective R of simple diode+coil is lowest; hence T is longest. A single zener can be added to raise clamping voltage to a higher level and raising the L/R time constant. To make this work, the zener wants to be reverse biased during spike time. A diode must be included to prevent the zener from being forward biased when the relay is energized as in (B). Any time (A) or (B) is built into the suppressed device, the coil terminals become polarity sensitive. and (+) terminal must be marked and observed by the installer. In (C) we see two zeners back to back. In this case, spike energy is clamped off at the same voltage but the network can be included inside the device without having to observe polarity of coil connections. You can purchase two-junction transient suppressors as 'bi-directional' devices. http://tinyurl.com/kobtg8o Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:20 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin G3X Autopliot Auto Trim with Big Trim Motor At 02:47 PM 11/23/2013, you wrote: > > >let's try this. HEre's a link: > >http://www.aircraftersllc.com/docs/Garmin%20Suggestion.png Hmmmm . . . you need to know the nature of Gramin's PWM philosophy. NORMALLY . . . pwm means applying a consistent voltage to a motor where duty cycle is adjusted to move the motor at any speed from zero to max. But in systems like the Beechjet (BIG motors with brakes on them) one cannot get slow, steady motion from the motor by fooling it into believing that the supply voltage has dropped. These systems accomplish precise control by PULSING the motor at full voltage with varying lengths of time. I did a study on Beechjets to characterize pitch trim performance at Mach cruise to see how short the pulses could be and STILL move the trim system but not so long as to be noticed by passengers and crew in the seat of their pants. Turns out 133 mS was the 'magic' number. If you're going to control your high current motor through relays, then you are most definitely limited to a full-voltage pulsed mode as opposed to the variable duty cycle so-motion mode. Question: Does the Garmin system really work in the PWM mode or PULSED mode? This can be done with relays . . . having very fast response times. This might be a case for installing the zener-based coil suppression. But the ideal buffer will be solid state. This raises the questions I cited earlier about prophylactic measures against unintended motion. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.