Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:35 AM - =?UTF-8?Q?Re:__Re:_Sourc?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_for_Relay_=C3=A2=82=AC=9C_DPDT_=28On=29_Off_=28O?= =?UTF-8?Q?n=29_=3F? (Bob McCallum)
2. 09:22 AM - Re: Problem Creating AeroElectric Forum Postings (Bob McCallum)
3. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Source for Relay =?iso-8859-1?Q?=93?= DPDT (On) Off (On) ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 11:39 AM - AeroElectric-List Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) Off (On) (Jeff Page)
5. 12:23 PM - More on the use of LED strings (Robert Borger)
6. 01:49 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Re:_Source_for_Relay_=3F=22_DP?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?DT_=28On=29_Off_=28On=29_=3F? (Roger & Jean)
7. 02:20 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) Off (On) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) Off (On ? -- VPX to Lancair Flap Motor Integration (Valin & Allyson Thorn)
9. 04:08 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) Off (On) (Valin & Allyson Thorn)
10. 04:11 PM - =?UTF-8?Q?Re:__Re:_Sourc?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_for_Relay___=C3=A2=82=AC=9C_DPDT_=28On=29_Off_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=28On=29_=3F? (Valin & Allyson Thorn)
11. 04:15 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Re:_Source_for_Relay_=3F=22_DP?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?DT_=28On=29_Off_=28On=29_=3F? (Valin & Allyson Thorn)
12. 04:33 PM - E-bus diode (user9253)
13. 06:04 PM - Re: E-bus diode (Roger & Jean)
14. 06:54 PM - Re: E-bus diode (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE:_AeroElectric-List:_Re:_Sourc?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_for_Relay_=C3=A2=82=AC=9C_DPDT_=28On=29_Off_=28O?= |
=?UTF-8?Q?n=29_=3F?
Valin;
It's simple enough to take the two wires which reverse polarity (and
which I would assume turn off when no motion is desired) and wire them
to two relays through a pair of diodes such that one polarity energizes
one relay and the other polarity energizes the other relay. One polarity
thus energizes the "up" relay, opposite polarity energizes the "down"
relay.
(As an aside the Lancair drawing you=99ve included still has the
same error in the notes on the motor leads that we discussed back in May
of 2010. Where adjacent to the red wire it says =9C- negative
close actuator extend flaps=9D it should be =9C+ positive
close actuator extend flaps=9D)
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin
> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:35 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Source for Relay
=C3=A2=82=AC=9C DPDT (On) Off (On) ?
>
<thorn@starflight.aero>
>
> Here's more detail in what I'm trying to accomplish in trying to use
the VPX and its flap
> control features with the motor breaking circuitry of the Lancair
Legacy flap control
> mechanism.
>
> The good things the VPX does for flap control is not allow deployment
above the
> maximum flap extended speed, incremental deployment/retraction with
flap momentary
> switch activation, and read/display its position.
> The VPX controls the flap motor by changing the polarity of the
outputs driving the flap
> motor.
>
> The Legacy's flap control circuitry, with motor braking (grounding
both sides) when not
> driving the motor or at its deploy and retraction limits, drives the
motor in different
> direction at the flap switch (DPDT (Retract) Off (Deploy)) with the
positive electrical
> connection to both the retract and deploy circuits. See attachment.
This is much the way
> Bob N. showed how to do it where he was switching the ground.
>
> So it seems that with the VPS sending out motor commands just directly
changing the
> polarity that it could be hooked up to a Relay replacing the manual
flap switch function
> DPDT (On) Off (On). But as some have pointed out, there's apparently
no such animal.
> I'm not sure how to take the changing flap control polarity coming out
of the VPX and
> set up two relays to achieve the same result in the Lancair wiring of
the DPDT flap
> control switch. I'm at novice at this but will think about it some
more tomorrow. If
> anyone can suggest a specific solution to this interesting challenge
I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2d sure
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Valin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416309#416309
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lancair_flap_drive_wiring_drawing_111.
jpg
>
>
>
>
> _-
>
===
> =====
> _-
>
===
> =====
> _-
>
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> =====
> _-
>
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> =====
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Problem Creating AeroElectric Forum Postings |
Valin;
Not sure, but when I post to the list I simply send a "standard" e-mail to
"aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" and my standard e-mail programme looks
after all of the formatting and editing. I've never used the forum forms as
such. My browser isn't involved in reading or answering to the list. Also
when replying or answering a post, I simply hit "reply" when reading the
post and type a reply. My e-mail programme looks after the rest.
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valin
> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Problem Creating AeroElectric Forum Postings
>
>
> When I type in a post, if it gets too long, the auto preview runs over the
typing window
> and makes it impossible to edit. See screen shot example attachment. I'm
using
> Internet Explorer 10. Does anyone know how to stop this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Valin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416310#416310
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/aeroelectric_postings_problem_478.jpg
>
>
>
>
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
> _-
> =====================================================
> =====
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Relay =?iso-8859-1?Q?=93?= DPDT |
(On) Off (On) ?
At 11:35 PM 12/28/2013, you wrote:
>
>Here's more detail in what I'm trying to
>accomplish in trying to use the VPX and its flap
>control features with the motor breaking
>circuitry of the Lancair Legacy flap control mechanism.
>
>The good things the VPX does for flap control is
>not allow deployment above the maximum flap
>extended speed, incremental
>deployment/retraction with flap momentary switch
>activation, and read/display its position.
>The VPX controls the flap motor by changing the
>polarity of the outputs driving the flap motor.
>
>The Legacy's flap control circuitry, with motor
>braking (grounding both sides) when not driving
>the motor or at its deploy and retraction
>limits, drives the motor in different direction
>at the flap switch (DPDT (Retract) Off (Deploy))
>with the positive electrical connection to both
>the retract and deploy circuits. See attachment.
>This is much the way Bob N. showed how to do it
>where he was switching the ground.
>
>So it seems that with the VPS sending out motor
>commands just directly changing the polarity
>that it could be hooked up to a Relay replacing
>the manual flap switch function DPDT (On) Off
>(On). But as some have pointed out, there's apparently no such animal.
>I'm not sure how to take the changing flap
>control polarity coming out of the VPX and set
>up two relays to achieve the same result in the
>Lancair wiring of the DPDT flap control switch.
>I'm at novice at this but will think about it
>some more tomorrow. If anyone can suggest a
>specific solution to this interesting challenge Id sure appreciate it.
My first response to this thread was without
benefit of capable image viewing . . . got a Kindle
for xmas . . . pretty amazing but limited.
No special changes needed. The wiring shown is
what I suggested earlier . . . a pair of spdt
relays for extend, retract and dynamic braking.
Output from the VPX is going to + and ground
or ground and + . . . you can wire
these outputs directly to the limit switches
depicted in the Lancair drawing.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) Off |
(On)
Valin,
You may have already looked into this, and I am not at all familiar
with the VPX, but if the VPX has flap control functionality, perhaps
it already incorporates shorting the flap motor for braking ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> Time: 09:36:36 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Source for Relay
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=93?= DPDT (On)
> Off (On) ?
> From: "Valin" <thorn@starflight.aero>
>
>
> Here's more detail in what I'm trying to accomplish in trying to use
> the VPX and
> its flap control features with the motor breaking circuitry of the
> Lancair Legacy
> flap control mechanism.
Message 5
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| Subject: | More on the use of LED strings |
Friends,
In my last posting on this subject I described hooking up a 5 meter
string of LEDs to a small variable power supply and showing the results.
To me it was quite encouraging and I elected to proceed.
There was some question as to using that power supply in an aircraft as
it was a VPW (Variable Pulse Width) unit. These VPW units are notorious
for introducing considerable electronic noise into aircraft electrical
system. Another variable power supply had to be located.
Eric Jones, proprietor of Perihelion Design, advertised his
Extraordinarily General Purpose Adjustable Voltage Regulator, hereafter
referred to as the EGPAVR, as a low noise variable power supply for both
incandescent and LED lamps. Here is his documentation for the unit:
I ordered a unit which arrived in very short time and connected it up to
my power supply and the LED string.
Here is a picture of the EGPAVR connected to the power supply and the
LED string with the power out to the string coming from the variable
output (yellow lead) of the EGPAVR:
Here is a picture of the EGPAVR connected to the power supply and the
LED string with the power out to the string coming from the constant
output (green lead) of the EGPAVR:
It all seem to work quite well for my application. I plan to use a
short section of the LED string to back-light my fuel sight gage. Power
for this LED string will come from the variable output. The remainder
of the LED string will be used to illuminate the tunnel area of the
Europa and thereby serve as an interior work light. Power for this
string will come from the constant output of the EGPAVR. I=92ll have to
add an inline switch from the constant output to the work LED string.
This is so that the interior work light doesn=92t come on every time the
sight gage is illuminated, it can be turned on only when needed.
Now, if only it will warm up enough for me to get back to work in the
hanger. It has been quite cold here in N.TX. I=92ve tried a couple of
the warmer days to work but still froze. And there=92s no way that
epoxy will set up in this weather. So I work at home in the shop on
other projects.
Next posting on this subject will happen when I have had time &
temperature to install the LED strings and EGPAVR in the aircraft.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 59-1?Q?Re:_AeroElectric-List:_Re:_Source_for_Relay_=3F=22_DP?= |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?DT_=28On=29_Off_=28On=29_=3F?
>>The good things the VPX does for flap control is not allow deployment
>>above the maximum flap extended speed
> No special changes needed. The wiring shown is
> what I suggested earlier . . . a pair of spdt
> relays for extend, retract and dynamic braking.
I believe that you could add the feature of not deploying the flaps
above a given airspeed by adding a pressure switch activated by the pito air
pressure system. This would be a normally closed switch inserted in series
between the flap down position switch and its relay. It will then be
adjusted to open at the maximum flap deployment speed. With this mod you
can retract the flaps above the max deployment speed but would be unable to
deploy at the high speed.
Roger
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) |
Off (On)
At 01:38 PM 12/29/2013, you wrote:
>
>Valin,
>
>You may have already looked into this, and I am not at all familiar
>with the VPX, but if the VPX has flap control functionality, perhaps
>it already incorporates shorting the flap motor for braking ?
Good questions. I've dropped Marc a note
to inquire into the flap motor output
characteristics . . .
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) Off (On ? -- VPX |
to Lancair Flap Motor Integration
Thanks Bob McC, you have an excellent memory. I=99ve corrected
those labels now.
I=99ve worked up a drawing with yours and the other=99s
suggestion to just use two relays to interface between the VPX and
Lancair flap motor circuitry. I=99ve attached the drawing. If
anyone sees any problems or can suggest how to make it simpler please
let me know.
I expect Marc at VPX will be concerned the VPX will use the position
senor to stop the flaps and if a limit switch stops it first the VPX
will see it as a fault. So for it to work this way the VPX stop
settings using the position sensor (not as accurate) will have to be in
sync with the limit switches. And the position sensor may not be
accurate enough to sync with the limit switches.
A big thanks for everyone=99s help!
Valin
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 9:34 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Source for Relay
=C3=A2=82=AC=9C DPDT (On) Off (On) ?
Valin;
It's simple enough to take the two wires which reverse polarity (and
which I would assume turn off when no motion is desired) and wire them
to two relays through a pair of diodes such that one polarity energizes
one relay and the other polarity energizes the other relay. One polarity
thus energizes the "up" relay, opposite polarity energizes the "down"
relay.
(As an aside the Lancair drawing you=99ve included still has the
same error in the notes on the motor leads that we discussed back in May
of 2010. Where adjacent to the red wire it says =9C- negative
close actuator extend flaps=9D it should be =9C+ positive
close actuator extend flaps=9D)
Bob McC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server@matronics.com <mailto:server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of
Valin
> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:35 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
<mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Source for Relay
=C3=A2=82=AC=9C DPDT (On) Off (On) ?
>
<thorn@starflight.aero <mailto:thorn@starflight.aero> >
>
> Here's more detail in what I'm trying to accomplish in trying to use
the VPX and its flap
> control features with the motor breaking circuitry of the Lancair
Legacy flap control
> mechanism.
>
> The good things the VPX does for flap control is not allow deployment
above the
> maximum flap extended speed, incremental deployment/retraction with
flap momentary
> switch activation, and read/display its position.
> The VPX controls the flap motor by changing the polarity of the
outputs driving the flap
> motor.
>
> The Legacy's flap control circuitry, with motor braking (grounding
both sides) when not
> driving the motor or at its deploy and retraction limits, drives the
motor in different
> direction at the flap switch (DPDT (Retract) Off (Deploy)) with the
positive electrical
> connection to both the retract and deploy circuits. See attachment.
This is much the way
> Bob N. showed how to do it where he was switching the ground.
>
> So it seems that with the VPS sending out motor commands just directly
changing the
> polarity that it could be hooked up to a Relay replacing the manual
flap switch function
> DPDT (On) Off (On). But as some have pointed out, there's apparently
no such animal.
> I'm not sure how to take the changing flap control polarity coming out
of the VPX and
> set up two relays to achieve the same result in the Lancair wiring of
the DPDT flap
> control switch. I'm at novice at this but will think about it some
more tomorrow. If
> anyone can suggest a specific solution to this interesting challenge
I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2d sure
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Valin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416309#416309
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lancair_flap_drive_wiring_drawing_111.
jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/lancair_flap_drive_wiring_drawing_111.
jpg>
>
>
>
>
> _-
> ===
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) |
Off (On)
Thanks Bob N and Jeff Page for pointing this out . This detail isn't in the
VPX Installation Manual and I assumed, maybe incorrectly, that the flap
motor power lines just went dead to stop the flap motor. The manual does
specially say that the VPX doesn't work with the Lancair flap circuitry
because it uses limit switches to stop the flaps rather than the position
sensor. So Marc may have thought of how to work around the VPX flap
commanding and polarity changes vs. the Lancair Legacy's flap circuitry with
motor braking but rejected it because he didn't think the position sensor
could sync closely enough with the limit switches...
Thanks for asking Marc A at VPX for the specifics!
Valin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AeroElectric-List Re: Source for Relay DPDT
(On) Off (On)
<mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 01:38 PM 12/29/2013, you wrote:
<mailto:jpx@qenesis.com> jpx@qenesis.com>
>
>Valin,
>
>You may have already looked into this, and I am not at all familiar
>with the VPX, but if the VPX has flap control functionality, perhaps
>it already incorporates shorting the flap motor for braking ?
Good questions. I've dropped Marc a note
to inquire into the flap motor output
characteristics . . .
Bob . . .
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE:_AeroElectric-List:_Re:_Sourc?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_for_Relay___=C3=A2=82=AC=9C_DPDT_=28On=29_Off_?= |
=?UTF-8?Q?=28On=29_=3F?
Thanks Bob N. Yea, the Kendle looks nice. I think when you see the Lancair flap
circuitry drawing it will be more clear why connecting the VPX motor drive
lines directly to the limit switches won't work. Both lines running through the
retracted and extended limit swtiches need positive feeds...
Thanks again,
Valin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Source for Relay DPDT (On) Off (On) ?
At 11:35 PM 12/28/2013, you wrote:
>
>Here's more detail in what I'm trying to
>accomplish in trying to use the VPX and its flap
>control features with the motor breaking
>circuitry of the Lancair Legacy flap control mechanism.
>
>The good things the VPX does for flap control is
>not allow deployment above the maximum flap
>extended speed, incremental
>deployment/retraction with flap momentary switch
>activation, and read/display its position.
>The VPX controls the flap motor by changing the
>polarity of the outputs driving the flap motor.
>
>The Legacy's flap control circuitry, with motor
>braking (grounding both sides) when not driving
>the motor or at its deploy and retraction
>limits, drives the motor in different direction
>at the flap switch (DPDT (Retract) Off (Deploy))
>with the positive electrical connection to both
>the retract and deploy circuits. See attachment.
>This is much the way Bob N. showed how to do it
>where he was switching the ground.
>
>So it seems that with the VPS sending out motor
>commands just directly changing the polarity
>that it could be hooked up to a Relay replacing
>the manual flap switch function DPDT (On) Off
>(On). But as some have pointed out, there's apparently no such animal.
>I'm not sure how to take the changing flap
>control polarity coming out of the VPX and set
>up two relays to achieve the same result in the
>Lancair wiring of the DPDT flap control switch.
>I'm at novice at this but will think about it
>some more tomorrow. If anyone can suggest a
>specific solution to this interesting challenge Id sure appreciate it.
My first response to this thread was without
benefit of capable image viewing . . . got a Kindle
for xmas . . . pretty amazing but limited.
No special changes needed. The wiring shown is
what I suggested earlier . . . a pair of spdt
relays for extend, retract and dynamic braking.
Output from the VPX is going to + and ground
or ground and + . . . you can wire
these outputs directly to the limit switches
depicted in the Lancair drawing.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: -1?Q?RE:_AeroElectric-List:_Re:_Source_for_Relay_=3F=22_DP?= |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?DT_=28On=29_Off_=28On=29_=3F?
Thanks Roger, that is a viable approach for that feature without the
VPX.
What I like about the VPX flap control most is just pressing the flap
button
and it automatically moving to the next programmed flap extension
setting.
The Legacy circuitry doesn't have that so pilots hold the flap's
momentary
switch until they get the setting they'd like.
Thanks again,
Valin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger
&
Jean
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Source for Relay ?" DPDT (On) Off
(On)
?
<mailto:mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
>>The good things the VPX does for flap control is not allow deployment
>>above the maximum flap extended speed
> No special changes needed. The wiring shown is
> what I suggested earlier . . . a pair of spdt
> relays for extend, retract and dynamic braking.
I believe that you could add the feature of not deploying the
flaps
above a given airspeed by adding a pressure switch activated by the pito
air
pressure system. This would be a normally closed switch inserted in
series
between the flap down position switch and its relay. It will then be
adjusted to open at the maximum flap deployment speed. With this mod
you
can retract the flaps above the max deployment speed but would be unable
to
deploy at the high speed.
Roger
www.aeroelectric.com
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Would this Schottky Diode be suitable for E-bus Feed?
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/IXYS/DSA300I200NA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fAkrg%2fe%2fM1X2RJuduJKKNsI%3d
It appears to be very robust with easy mounting.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416356#416356
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> Would this Schottky Diode be suitable for E-bus Feed?
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/IXYS/DSA300I200NA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fAkrg%2fe%2fM1X2RJuduJKKNsI%3d
> It appears to be very robust with easy mounting.
The spec sheet says the forward voltage drop is 0.98V. Do you think that is
acceptable?
Roger
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The voltage drop is dependent on the current. It is 0.98 volt at 300 amp. At
30 amps it is less than 0.5 volts. See the graph on the data sheet:
http://ixapps.ixys.com/DataSheet/DSA300I200NA.pdf
Under the picture of the device on the data sheet, it says, "Backside: Isolated".
So the base does not have to be electrically insulated from the airframe.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416361#416361
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