Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:28 AM - Re: Schumacher 1562 and PC 680 (Jay Hyde)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Copper Bar (Eric M. Jones)
3. 06:35 AM - Re: Schumacher 1562 and PC 680 (Charles Plumery)
4. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Copper Bar (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Copper Bar (Dave Saylor)
6. 10:40 AM - Re: Copper Bar (Eric M. Jones)
7. 11:54 AM - Essential Bus question (rkharr)
8. 06:27 PM - Re: Essential Bus question (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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Subject: | Schumacher 1562 and PC 680 |
I don=99t think that it was bad to send it out to the list; its
aircraft related, if not electrical. Any extra bit of information like
that is almost always useful
Jay
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Andres
Sent: 31 January 2014 06:30 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Schumacher 1562 and PC 680
Sorry guys, didn't intend to broadcast that.
Tim
On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:54 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
This came from Russel Mahlon, I had the email from him but lost it. I
had been hot starting by:
No boost
Idle cut off
Throttle cracked
Crank and go rich when it catches.
It works ok but on occasion, well you know.
So his procedure is:
No Boost
Both levers forward and then back to idle
Mixture idle cutoff
Throttle half
Crank
When it catches move throttle slowly back to idle
Then mixture forward to about where you normally taxi.
His method is much more reliable than my other, it seems to work every
time. If I'm uncertain about whether to use cold or hot, like after an
hour lunch stop, I'll hit the boost for just a second first.
Hope it works for you.
Tim
On Jan 30, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Charles Plumery <barber_seville@msn.com>
wrote:
Tim,
Send me your trick for a hot start on FI engine. I have a friend that is
always having problems with his setup.
Thanks,
Sent from my iPad,
Chuck
=9CA nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it
cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less
formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the
traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers
rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government
itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents
familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he
appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots
the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to
undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that
it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.=9D
On Jan 30, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
Fuel injected? If so PM me, it would be off topic here.
I just learned a slick trick for hot start on a FI engine.
Tim
On Jan 30, 2014, at 2:01 PM, John Morgensen <john@morgensen.com> wrote:
<john@morgensen.com>
The starter is a sky tech lightweight on an IO-320. Cold starts are one
or two blades. Hot starts are still a learning process and the starter
can occasionally get a work-out.
When I was stranded in Chandler, the airplane had flown 3 hours cross
country day vfr and then parked for 2 weeks. The battery should have
been fully charged.
There should not be any drain on the battery with the master off. P-mags
are wired to the main bus. The only thing on the battery bus is the
cigarette lighter and the switch to the essential bus.
When I get to the hanger, I will test for any current flow on the
battery. Is there any thing else I can measure/test that might shed some
light on the problem?
john
On 1/30/2014 8:36 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Good. The self-discharge rate on RG batteries
is very low . . . there's probably no value in
hooking an airplane to the wall outlet as long as
it's flown every month . . . or more often.
There's something going on with your airplane
at appears abusive to the battery. What kind
of starter? Are your starting events expeditious?
Bob . . .
< span="">
http://www.matronics.==================
=========; - MATRONICS WEB
FORUM"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<>
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lectric-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 2
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The optimal way to make bus bars is to use Copper-Clad Aluminum. I have tried to
get these add to my product line, but complications regarding size and quantity
have delayed the deal.
Still, there's some out there someplace. Weighs about half what copper weighs.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417943#417943
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Schumacher 1562 and PC 680 |
Thanks Tim,
I will pass it on.
Sent from my iPad,
Chuck
=9CA nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cann
ot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, fo
r he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst t
hose within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alley
s, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not
a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their
face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the h
earts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknow
n in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body pol
itic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.=9D
> On Jan 30, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry guys, didn't intend to broadcast that.
> Tim
>
>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:54 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> This came from Russel Mahlon, I had the email from him but lost it. I had
been hot starting by:
>> No boost
>> Idle cut off
>> Throttle cracked
>> Crank and go rich when it catches.
>> It works ok but on occasion, well you know.
>>
>> So his procedure is:
>> No Boost
>> Both levers forward and then back to idle
>> Mixture idle cutoff
>> Throttle half
>> Crank
>> When it catches move throttle slowly back to idle
>> Then mixture forward to about where you normally taxi.
>> His method is much more reliable than my other, it seems to work every ti
me. If I'm uncertain about whether to use cold or hot, like after an hour lu
nch stop, I'll hit the boost for just a second first.
>> Hope it works for you.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Charles Plumery <barber_seville@msn.com> wr
ote:
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>> Send me your trick for a hot start on FI engine. I have a friend that is
always having problems with his setup.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad,
>>> Chuck
>>> =9CA nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it c
annot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable,
for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongs
t those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the al
leys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears n
ot a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears the
ir face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in th
e hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unk
nown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body p
olitic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.=9D
>>>
>>>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
net>
>>>>
>>>> Fuel injected? If so PM me, it would be off topic here.
>>>> I just learned a slick trick for hot start on a FI engine.
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 2:01 PM, John Morgensen <john@morgensen.com> wrote
:
>>>>>
n.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The starter is a sky tech lightweight on an IO-320. Cold starts are on
e or two blades. Hot starts are still a learning process and the starter can
occasionally get a work-out.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I was stranded in Chandler, the airplane had flown 3 hours cross c
ountry day vfr and then parked for 2 weeks. The battery should have been ful
ly charged.
>>>>>
>>>>> There should not be any drain on the battery with the master off. P-ma
gs are wired to the main bus. The only thing on the battery bus is the cigar
ette lighter and the switch to the essential bus.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I get to the hanger, I will test for any current flow on the batt
ery. Is there any thing else I can measure/test that might shed some light o
n the problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> john
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/30/2014 8:36 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good. The self-discharge rate on RG batteries
>>>>>> is very low . . . there's probably no value in
>>>>>> hooking an airplane to the wall outlet as long as
>>>>>> it's flown every month . . . or more often.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's something going on with your airplane
>>>>>> at appears abusive to the battery. What kind
>>>>>> of starter? Are your starting events expeditious?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.matronics.=================
==========================
=========; - MATRONICS WEB FORUM"http://forums.mat
ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>> <========================
============
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>> lectric-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>> //forums.matronics.com
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> lectric-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>
>
>
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>
Message 4
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At 07:33 AM 1/31/2014, you wrote:
>
>The optimal way to make bus bars is to use Copper-Clad Aluminum. I
>have tried to get these add to my product line, but complications
>regarding size and quantity have delayed the deal.
>
>Still, there's some out there someplace. Weighs about half what copper weighs.
But how would that work? What thickness
of cladding are you looking for? Same
question goes to the advantages offered
by copper clad aluminum wire.
Copper and aluminum are not that far
separated for resistance so for the addition
of copper to reduce cross section of aluminum
for purposes of conserving energy is minimal . . .
the copper is not likely to be more than a few
mils thick.
On the other hand, that thin layer of copper
greatly benefits the installer's ability to
secure a high quality, gas-tight connection with
the aluminum either by crimping or soldering.
A short-fall that has plagued the use of
aluminum wiring for decades.
Are you asserting that a copper clad, aluminum
bus material will weigh half that of an
equivalency in copper because cladding
has improved on conductivity . . . our just
connectivity . . . or both? And what is the
expected weight savings for having substituted
aluminum for copper in a piece that is
3-4 inches long?
A copper bus 4 x .75 x .062 inches is about
0.2 cu inch (3.2 cu-cm) of copper for a
weight on the order of 30 grams. What is
the return on investment for saving less than
15 grams of weight with the application of a
sophisticated bus-bar material?
The copper clad wires of significant length
can have some savings of scale that are
attractive . . . savings that don't seem
to repeat with bus-bar material.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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I've used 1100 aluminum sheet for several bus bars on various airplanes.
My own plane has been flying for 7 years and 1300 hrs with 0 bus issues.
I put a drop of CorrosionX on each screw hoping it will help prevent any
corrosion taking root at the connection. I found the ratio for resistance
for alum/copper and sized it accordingly. Cheap, light, great conductor.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> At 07:33 AM 1/31/2014, you wrote:
>
>> emjones@charter.net>
>>
>> The optimal way to make bus bars is to use Copper-Clad Aluminum. I have
>> tried to get these add to my product line, but complications regarding size
>> and quantity have delayed the deal.
>>
>> Still, there's some out there someplace. Weighs about half what copper
>> weighs.
>>
>
> But how would that work? What thickness
> of cladding are you looking for? Same
> question goes to the advantages offered
> by copper clad aluminum wire.
>
> Copper and aluminum are not that far
> separated for resistance so for the addition
> of copper to reduce cross section of aluminum
> for purposes of conserving energy is minimal . . .
> the copper is not likely to be more than a few
> mils thick.
>
> On the other hand, that thin layer of copper
> greatly benefits the installer's ability to
> secure a high quality, gas-tight connection with
> the aluminum either by crimping or soldering.
> A short-fall that has plagued the use of
> aluminum wiring for decades.
>
> Are you asserting that a copper clad, aluminum
> bus material will weigh half that of an
> equivalency in copper because cladding
> has improved on conductivity . . . our just
> connectivity . . . or both? And what is the
> expected weight savings for having substituted
> aluminum for copper in a piece that is
> 3-4 inches long?
>
> A copper bus 4 x .75 x .062 inches is about
> 0.2 cu inch (3.2 cu-cm) of copper for a
> weight on the order of 30 grams. What is
> the return on investment for saving less than
> 15 grams of weight with the application of a
> sophisticated bus-bar material?
>
> The copper clad wires of significant length
> can have some savings of scale that are
> attractive . . . savings that don't seem
> to repeat with bus-bar material.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 6
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> Copper and aluminum are not that far
> separated for resistance...Bob N.)
Bob, There are many ways to measure conductivity. But when you care about weight:
The Figure of Merit is Conductivity per unit mass (x 1000)
Aluminum =137
Copper = 66
So Aluminum is more than twice as conductive per unit mass as Copper. And it would
be a whole lot cheaper too, except that every piece of Copper-Clad Aluminum
is custom built. The CCA I use to make battery cables is 10% (by diameter) Copper
and 90% Aluminum. The electric company just uses plain aluminum and employs
special mean to terminate the wires.
One big advantage of CCA is that it has very low scrap value (thus no theft). Furthermore
the price can be set and guaranteed going into the future because Aluminum's
price is very stable.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417952#417952
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_656.pdf
Message 7
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Subject: | Essential Bus question |
My RV-6 has been flying 12 years now with an electrical system based on the Z diagrams.
Now I am assisting my wife complete her RV-7 electrical system. She
has chosen to use the VPX Pro unit and wants to incorporate a "backup" source
of power for clearances, engine start, and "endurance" (if the VPX box were to
quit).
The circuit that we are considering uses a bridge diode that would allow the main
battery to supplement the "backup" battery for increased endurance. Since
I have not seen this variation before, there must be a "gotcha" that I haven't
found. Attached is a picture of the basic circuit. Any suggestions and/or
comments would be appreciated.
--------
Ken
RV-6
South Carolina
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417953#417953
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/essential_bus_237.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Essential Bus question |
My first question would be why add the complexity of a second electrical
system, when virtually all situations can be handled by either backup
battery for EFIS, ship's battery or just plain old magnetos.
On 1/31/2014 12:53 PM, rkharr wrote:
>
> My RV-6 has been flying 12 years now with an electrical system based on the Z
diagrams. Now I am assisting my wife complete her RV-7 electrical system. She
has chosen to use the VPX Pro unit and wants to incorporate a "backup" source
of power for clearances, engine start, and "endurance" (if the VPX box were
to quit).
> The circuit that we are considering uses a bridge diode that would allow the
main battery to supplement the "backup" battery for increased endurance. Since
I have not seen this variation before, there must be a "gotcha" that I haven't
found. Attached is a picture of the basic circuit. Any suggestions and/or
comments would be appreciated.
>
> --------
> Ken
> RV-6
> South Carolina
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417953#417953
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/essential_bus_237.jpg
>
>
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