Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: Connectors and factories (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:49 AM - Re: Essential Bus question (Bill Watson)
3. 02:51 PM - Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging (Eric Page)
4. 04:10 PM - Re: Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging (Andy Hawes)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Connectors and factories |
>I asked for discussion about the more general case of the several
>few-conductor breakaways in a small OBAM plane, such as for wing and
>cowling removal. I don't think it's necessary to get wrapped around
>any axle as many solutions will work, but thought there might be a
>consensus or a better idea than the ones I've had. Never mind, dlj04 out.
I'm sorry you didn't receive the response you were
seeking . . . but I don't think there's any 'axle
wrapping' going on here either.
Trim systems are, as a general rule, simply a convenience
to the pilot. I flew an ultra-light hangared at our
airport back about 1990. Fun machine. But I was initially
appalled at the forces I had to hold on the controls to
maintain the desired approach configuration for landing.
Inputs were light in 'cruise' but it took quite a bit
of stick and rudder input to put the little machine down
where I intended.
I asked the owner if there were any instructions for
'trimming' the airplane for better handling qualities
and he was surprised. The 'out of trim' condition of
his particular choice of flying enjoyment was transparent
to him . . . he had learned how to make the airplane
do what he wanted and the awareness of demands on him
as a pilot disappeared into automatic responses.
So in the grand scheme of things, the value of a trim
system for any axis goes to reducing pilot workloads
to free up concentration on other things. Except for
the risks posed by a runaway trim system that has
too much aerodynamic authority, those little plastic
boxes with motors in them do not warrant great
concern for system reliability. Should a trim actuator
become inoperative during some phase of otherwise
controlled and trimmed flight, loss of said actuator
does not represent a significant threat to aluminum and
bones.
This is generally a design goal for TC aircraft that
must be demonstrated during qualification. The Beechjet
was demonstrated to be manageable all the way to
the runway with the trim system stuck at full
nose down trim (general position for cruise
a Mach airspeeds and altitudes).
We can use that information to guide decisions
in the selection of components for those little
black plastic boxes. The generally controlling desire
for most installations has been compactness. The
wires need to route though small holes in structure.
There's also been no demonstrated need for
environmental robustness. Consider the
manner in which these actuators are built.
The connectors need be no more robust
than the actuator on the other end of a 6-inch
wire bundle.
With the above points in mind, we can begin
to consider connector styles and methods. It
appears that this thread has run the spectrum
of choices . . . as it has on several other
occasions over the years. The only really
elegant, small and robust connectors identified
to date are Lemo products. At the same time,
our conversation has failed to identify any
operational or risk-reducing need to do anything
fancier than 'lectric Bob's chopped down
d-sub or even knife-splices under heat-shrink.
It is useful to review these questions in open
forum from time to time. Newcomers haven't
participated or read past discussions and they
just may be aware of an alternative, heretofore
un-known solution. The electronics business is
dynamic and it's quite likely that any new
and exciting solution will be tossed in from
out in left field by someone who may be surprised
at how exciting his/her contribution is to the
rest of us.
Old timers on the List may fine these repeats
boring but this is a class-room with a constantly
rotating clientele. Let us be mindful of our
role as teachers.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Essential Bus question |
> The 430w will allow storing a limited number of flight plans, IIRC 10,
> but if not using it again I hesitate to replace one of the ones I do
> use frequently with one I won't use again.
... And it's kind of awkward to store, retrieve and managed stored plans on them.
I tried doing that to get around the problems I was having but I kept screwing
the button pushing up. Now I don't use the feature at all.
I'm thinking that the GNS-430 is getting a bit long in the tooth and
clearly doesn't have some features that one would want though I'm happy
that it doesn't have an internal battery. I had an old Becker comm
radio with an internal battery for saved frequency storage and all it
means is that periodic shop service is required. G430s will be laying
around some panels for a very long time....
To the G430s credit, it doesn't consume a lot of power and is tolerant
of low voltage during starts and such. It takes a lot to get it to
re-boot. I used 2.1 amps for planning purposes with 6.0 amps when
transmitting.
But my 3 EFIS screens were power hogs. I assumed 4.5 amps in aggregate
plus 1 amp for the dual AHRS. I chose to have them come on with the
master and not have a separate switch or switches.
Bill "thanks to Bob and the list the panel works as desired now" Watson
>> On Feb 8, 2014, at 4:51 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't know about a GNS-430, but the GTN-650 I have uses around 2.8 amps for
the nav side and maybe .8 for the com side when in receive mode.
>> My Dynon Skyview screens use about 3 amps each. My SL-30 is under 2 amps in
receive mode for com and nav together. So the governing draw will be how much
current the EFIS needs and how much the certified GPS needs.
>> It seems odd that a certified GPS doesn't let you program and save a flight
plan in non-volatile
>> memory as most portable GPS units allow. If it doesn't, then an isolated backup
battery powering just the essential items would seem to be required.
>> My antique Northstar M3 GPS allows storing flight plans as long as the soldered
in keep alive battery is good. (no longer is).
>>
>>> On 2/8/2014 4:23 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>>>> On 2/8/2014 12:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Honestly Mr Nuckolls is the guy who puts my nose out of joint with the "kitchen
sink" stuff. Just as Bob and this list has enabled me to design and build
my dream traveling machine, I feel the need to defend all that has been enabled.
Bob, I love you man! I value your advice, counsel and guidance above
all others. This list and the people on it, especially folks like Kelly, are
to die for. Just please stop calling my panel a "kitchen sink".
>>>>
>>>> Did I use that term . . . can you cite the posting?
>>> Well here is the one I remember:
>>> *
>>> *Match:* */#6/*
>>> *Message:* */#58841/*
>>>
>>> *Date:* */Jul 08, 2013/*
>>>
>>> *From:* */"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>/*
>>>
>>> *Subject:* /*Re: Low voltage indicator with dual alternators <http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=115279638?KEYS=kitchen_sink?LISTNAME=AeroElectric?HITNUMBER=6?SERIAL=15121118825?SHOWBUTTONS=NO>*/
>>>
>>> *(snip)
>>> *
>>>
>>> > >However, I normally start with the buses separated because if I
>>> go >parallel, the voltage drop causes my 3 MDFs to re-boot. How
>>> much 'stuff' do you have to turn on before engine start? On the
>>> Beech products we used to offer a mini-ebus switch that would let
>>> you fire up a comm radio directly from the battery. Your comm
>>> radio probably needs 0.2A receive, and maybe 1.5A transmit. A long
>>> winded pre-flight activity might need 1000 watt-seconds. I'm
>>> thinking that the bus from which all your 'kitchen sink'
>>> accessories is powered also powers the comm radio and you have no
>>> way to power up the comm radio independently? You might want to
>>> consider moving a comm radio to a battery bus and adding . . . *I hesitate
to point out that you use the term generally to describe electro-whiz intensive
panels but no matter.
>>>> I promise I'll upgrade it, pare it down and streamline it with some excess
$$$$ the next time I see the opportunity to do it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry if you've found my contributions trying . . .
>>>> but my friend . . . it's my job.
>>> And I'm on this list because you do it so well. No harm, no foul Mr Nuckolls!
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging |
Bob & Listers,
There's been some talk on here in recent weeks about measuring and logging v
oltage and current in aircraft buses for diagnostic purposes. I came across
a crowd-funding campaign for an interesting device that looks like it might
be just the ticket for this kind of measurement, so I thought I'd pass it a
long:
https://www.dragoninnovation.com/projects/34-mooshimeter
Eric
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging |
very cool
On Feb 9, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Eric Page wrote:
> Bob & Listers,
>
> There's been some talk on here in recent weeks about measuring and
logging voltage and current in aircraft buses for diagnostic purposes.
I came across a crowd-funding campaign for an interesting device that
looks like it might be just the ticket for this kind of measurement, so
I thought I'd pass it along:
>
> https://www.dragoninnovation.com/projects/34-mooshimeter
>
> Eric
>
>
>
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>
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