---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/09/14: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: Connectors and factories (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 04:49 AM - Re: Essential Bus question (Bill Watson) 3. 02:51 PM - Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging (Eric Page) 4. 04:10 PM - Re: Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging (Andy Hawes) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:40 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Connectors and factories >I asked for discussion about the more general case of the several >few-conductor breakaways in a small OBAM plane, such as for wing and >cowling removal. I don't think it's necessary to get wrapped around >any axle as many solutions will work, but thought there might be a >consensus or a better idea than the ones I've had. Never mind, dlj04 out. I'm sorry you didn't receive the response you were seeking . . . but I don't think there's any 'axle wrapping' going on here either. Trim systems are, as a general rule, simply a convenience to the pilot. I flew an ultra-light hangared at our airport back about 1990. Fun machine. But I was initially appalled at the forces I had to hold on the controls to maintain the desired approach configuration for landing. Inputs were light in 'cruise' but it took quite a bit of stick and rudder input to put the little machine down where I intended. I asked the owner if there were any instructions for 'trimming' the airplane for better handling qualities and he was surprised. The 'out of trim' condition of his particular choice of flying enjoyment was transparent to him . . . he had learned how to make the airplane do what he wanted and the awareness of demands on him as a pilot disappeared into automatic responses. So in the grand scheme of things, the value of a trim system for any axis goes to reducing pilot workloads to free up concentration on other things. Except for the risks posed by a runaway trim system that has too much aerodynamic authority, those little plastic boxes with motors in them do not warrant great concern for system reliability. Should a trim actuator become inoperative during some phase of otherwise controlled and trimmed flight, loss of said actuator does not represent a significant threat to aluminum and bones. This is generally a design goal for TC aircraft that must be demonstrated during qualification. The Beechjet was demonstrated to be manageable all the way to the runway with the trim system stuck at full nose down trim (general position for cruise a Mach airspeeds and altitudes). We can use that information to guide decisions in the selection of components for those little black plastic boxes. The generally controlling desire for most installations has been compactness. The wires need to route though small holes in structure. There's also been no demonstrated need for environmental robustness. Consider the manner in which these actuators are built. The connectors need be no more robust than the actuator on the other end of a 6-inch wire bundle. With the above points in mind, we can begin to consider connector styles and methods. It appears that this thread has run the spectrum of choices . . . as it has on several other occasions over the years. The only really elegant, small and robust connectors identified to date are Lemo products. At the same time, our conversation has failed to identify any operational or risk-reducing need to do anything fancier than 'lectric Bob's chopped down d-sub or even knife-splices under heat-shrink. It is useful to review these questions in open forum from time to time. Newcomers haven't participated or read past discussions and they just may be aware of an alternative, heretofore un-known solution. The electronics business is dynamic and it's quite likely that any new and exciting solution will be tossed in from out in left field by someone who may be surprised at how exciting his/her contribution is to the rest of us. Old timers on the List may fine these repeats boring but this is a class-room with a constantly rotating clientele. Let us be mindful of our role as teachers. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:49 AM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus question > The 430w will allow storing a limited number of flight plans, IIRC 10, > but if not using it again I hesitate to replace one of the ones I do > use frequently with one I won't use again. ... And it's kind of awkward to store, retrieve and managed stored plans on them. I tried doing that to get around the problems I was having but I kept screwing the button pushing up. Now I don't use the feature at all. I'm thinking that the GNS-430 is getting a bit long in the tooth and clearly doesn't have some features that one would want though I'm happy that it doesn't have an internal battery. I had an old Becker comm radio with an internal battery for saved frequency storage and all it means is that periodic shop service is required. G430s will be laying around some panels for a very long time.... To the G430s credit, it doesn't consume a lot of power and is tolerant of low voltage during starts and such. It takes a lot to get it to re-boot. I used 2.1 amps for planning purposes with 6.0 amps when transmitting. But my 3 EFIS screens were power hogs. I assumed 4.5 amps in aggregate plus 1 amp for the dual AHRS. I chose to have them come on with the master and not have a separate switch or switches. Bill "thanks to Bob and the list the panel works as desired now" Watson >> On Feb 8, 2014, at 4:51 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> I don't know about a GNS-430, but the GTN-650 I have uses around 2.8 amps for the nav side and maybe .8 for the com side when in receive mode. >> My Dynon Skyview screens use about 3 amps each. My SL-30 is under 2 amps in receive mode for com and nav together. So the governing draw will be how much current the EFIS needs and how much the certified GPS needs. >> It seems odd that a certified GPS doesn't let you program and save a flight plan in non-volatile >> memory as most portable GPS units allow. If it doesn't, then an isolated backup battery powering just the essential items would seem to be required. >> My antique Northstar M3 GPS allows storing flight plans as long as the soldered in keep alive battery is good. (no longer is). >> >>> On 2/8/2014 4:23 PM, Bill Watson wrote: >>>> On 2/8/2014 12:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >>>> >>>> Honestly Mr Nuckolls is the guy who puts my nose out of joint with the "kitchen sink" stuff. Just as Bob and this list has enabled me to design and build my dream traveling machine, I feel the need to defend all that has been enabled. Bob, I love you man! I value your advice, counsel and guidance above all others. This list and the people on it, especially folks like Kelly, are to die for. Just please stop calling my panel a "kitchen sink". >>>> >>>> Did I use that term . . . can you cite the posting? >>> Well here is the one I remember: >>> * >>> *Match:* */#6/* >>> *Message:* */#58841/* >>> >>> *Date:* */Jul 08, 2013/* >>> >>> *From:* */"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" /* >>> >>> *Subject:* /*Re: Low voltage indicator with dual alternators */ >>> >>> *(snip) >>> * >>> >>> > >However, I normally start with the buses separated because if I >>> go >parallel, the voltage drop causes my 3 MDFs to re-boot. How >>> much 'stuff' do you have to turn on before engine start? On the >>> Beech products we used to offer a mini-ebus switch that would let >>> you fire up a comm radio directly from the battery. Your comm >>> radio probably needs 0.2A receive, and maybe 1.5A transmit. A long >>> winded pre-flight activity might need 1000 watt-seconds. I'm >>> thinking that the bus from which all your 'kitchen sink' >>> accessories is powered also powers the comm radio and you have no >>> way to power up the comm radio independently? You might want to >>> consider moving a comm radio to a battery bus and adding . . . *I hesitate to point out that you use the term generally to describe electro-whiz intensive panels but no matter. >>>> I promise I'll upgrade it, pare it down and streamline it with some excess $$$$ the next time I see the opportunity to do it. >>>> >>>> I'm sorry if you've found my contributions trying . . . >>>> but my friend . . . it's my job. >>> And I'm on this list because you do it so well. No harm, no foul Mr Nuckolls! >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> >> >> > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:40 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging From: Eric Page Bob & Listers, There's been some talk on here in recent weeks about measuring and logging v oltage and current in aircraft buses for diagnostic purposes. I came across a crowd-funding campaign for an interesting device that looks like it might be just the ticket for this kind of measurement, so I thought I'd pass it a long: https://www.dragoninnovation.com/projects/34-mooshimeter Eric ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:17 PM PST US From: Andy Hawes Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage/Current Measurement & Logging very cool On Feb 9, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Eric Page wrote: > Bob & Listers, > > There's been some talk on here in recent weeks about measuring and logging voltage and current in aircraft buses for diagnostic purposes. I came across a crowd-funding campaign for an interesting device that looks like it might be just the ticket for this kind of measurement, so I thought I'd pass it along: > > https://www.dragoninnovation.com/projects/34-mooshimeter > > Eric > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.