---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/15/14: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:57 AM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 06:02 AM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 08:46 AM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (B Tomm) 4. 09:27 AM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 10:17 AM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (Gerry van Dyk) 6. 10:20 AM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (Roger & Jean) 7. 01:51 PM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (Russ & Marilyn) 8. 02:24 PM - Re: Fat wires and plumber's solder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder At 05:48 PM 2/14/2014, you wrote: > > >Bob, > >I am in the process of integrating a power input module (Cole Hersee 11041) >see http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/248/11041/ and am wondering >about the best method for connecting a heavy wire to it. See http://tinyurl.com/m85ohwx >It might be a good time to have a discussion on plumbing solder and why it >should or should not be used for electrical stuff. "Plumbing" solder is not a very definitive term. Solders come in all sorts of alloys including the modern lead-free versions. They each have a unique set of behaviors for joining parts. The best-we-know-how-to-do solders are 63/37 Tin-Lead alloys popular with the electronics industry among others. 63/37 is, perhaps not the optimum structural alloy but it has some over-riding properties that make it the joining material of choice for the things we do. Lowest melting point of all tin-lead ratios known as 'eutectic'. This property promotes joining with the least possible heat stress on parts and their surrounding insulators. Nearly zero plastic range . . . it moves quickly between solid and liquid phases during temperature excursions. Hence, you have to work at it to get a 'cold' solder joint. See Chapter 8 of The 'Connection. When the occasional task calls for soldering fat wires to equally fat terminals, I pull off 6 feet or so of my fine-wire, 63/37 and fold it into a 6-8 strand, twisted bundle. This offers a nice does of flux into the joint while increasing the delivery rate of solder into the melt. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:52 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder Nearly zero plastic range . . . it moves quickly between solid and liquid phases during temperature excursions. Hence, you have to work at it to get a 'cold' solder joint. See Chapter 8 of The 'Connection. CORRECTION: CHAPTER 9 Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:46 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder Thanks Bob and all, I was concerned that 63/37 may add too much flux causing undesirable effects. Twisting is together is an excellent idea. Thanks Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 5:56 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder At 05:48 PM 2/14/2014, you wrote: Bob, I am in the process of integrating a power input module (Cole Hersee 11041) see http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/248/11041/ and am wondering about the best method for connecting a heavy wire to it. See http://tinyurl.com/m85ohwx It might be a good time to have a discussion on plumbing solder and why it should or should not be used for electrical stuff. "Plumbing" solder is not a very definitive term. Solders come in all sorts of alloys including the modern lead-free versions. They each have a unique set of behaviors for joining parts. The best-we-know-how-to-do solders are 63/37 Tin-Lead alloys popular with the electronics industry among others. 63/37 is, perhaps not the optimum structural alloy but it has some over-riding properties that make it the joining material of choice for the things we do. Lowest melting point of all tin-lead ratios known as 'eutectic'. This property promotes joining with the least possible heat stress on parts and their surrounding insulators. Nearly zero plastic range . . . it moves quickly between solid and liquid phases during temperature excursions. Hence, you have to work at it to get a 'cold' solder joint. See Chapter 8 of The 'Connection. When the occasional task calls for soldering fat wires to equally fat terminals, I pull off 6 feet or so of my fine-wire, 63/37 and fold it into a 6-8 strand, twisted bundle. This offers a nice does of flux into the joint while increasing the delivery rate of solder into the melt. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:19 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder At 10:46 AM 2/15/2014, you wrote: >Thanks Bob and all, > >I was concerned that 63/37 may add too much flux causing undesirable >effects. Twisting is together is an excellent idea. > >Thanks > >Bevan The 'service life' of flux in electronic solder is measured in seconds. The active features in the chemistry evaporate pretty quickly as they dissolve the products of corrosion from surfaces to be joined. The residuals do not add to the appearance of the finished joint but it'a all on the surface. It wipes off with a rag wetted with lacquer thinner or acetone. I keep cans of "carburetor cleaner" around for spray de-greasing and de-fluxing of work product. But there's no risk of deleterious effects for having left it in place . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:45 AM PST US From: "Gerry van Dyk" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder However the acid core of structural solder would have a lasting corrosive effect on electronics. By all means be sure you use electrical solder. The specific alloy percentages have little bearing on weather it's electronic or structural solder, the application determines what flux you need to use. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: February 15, 2014 10:27 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder At 10:46 AM 2/15/2014, you wrote: Thanks Bob and all, I was concerned that 63/37 may add too much flux causing undesirable effects. Twisting is together is an excellent idea. Thanks Bevan The 'service life' of flux in electronic solder is measured in seconds. The active features in the chemistry evaporate pretty quickly as they dissolve the products of corrosion from surfaces to be joined. The residuals do not add to the appearance of the finished joint but it'a all on the surface. It wipes off with a rag wetted with lacquer thinner or acetone. I keep cans of "carburetor cleaner" around for spray de-greasing and de-fluxing of work product. But there's no risk of deleterious effects for having left it in place . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:42 AM PST US From: "Roger & Jean" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder The 'service life' of flux in electronic solder is measured in seconds. The active features in the chemistry evaporate pretty quickly as they dissolve the products of corrosion from surfaces to be joined. The residuals do not add to the appearance of the finished joint but it'a all on the surface. It wipes off with a rag wetted with lacquer thinner or acetone. I keep cans of "carburetor cleaner" around for spray de-greasing and de-fluxing of work product. But there's no risk of deleterious effects for having left it in place . . . Question: If one were to use plumbers solder and plumbers flux on a join t and thouroughly cleaned it with acetone or lacquor thinner, would this be acceptable? I am just not aware of the chemistry involved, or if anyone h as done any experimentation with this process. Roger --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protec tion is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:49 PM PST US From: "Russ & Marilyn" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder One thing to remember with the 95-5 Tin / Antimony Solder is that it does not fill gaps well. It was common practice when using 95/5 to flood the joint with 50/50 solder after first adding the 95/5. Another point is that real "Silver Solder" AKA "Silver Braze" has 35 of 45 % silver with the remainder being bronze and melts typically around 1100 degrees f or more. Plumbers "silver solder" is basically a 95/5 solder with a little silver so it will fill gaps better and melts around 450 f. I have used rosin core solder to tin a joint then add the plumbers silver solder to complete the connection. Russ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:39 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat wires and plumber's solder > >Question: If one were to use plumbers solder and plumbers flux on a >joint and thouroughly cleaned it with acetone or lacquor thinner, >would this be acceptable? I am just not aware of the chemistry >involved, or if anyone has done any experimentation with this process. My sense is that the chemistry that promotes corrosion in the "perfect joint" is all on the outside and easily neutralized and/or cleaned. The biggest risk to joint longevity probably has more to do with alloy than with removal of residual flux. > >Roger > > >---------- > >[] > > >This email is free from viruses and malware because >avast! Antivirus protection is active. > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.