Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: Contactor recommendation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Joining multiple wires (donjohnston)
3. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Joining multiple wires (H. Marvin Haught)
4. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Joining multiple wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: Joining multiple wires (H. Marvin Haught)
6. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Joining multiple wires (Bob McCallum)
7. 05:30 PM - Audio Amp input (user9253)
8. 05:52 PM - PCB Mfg board house (user9253)
9. 06:09 PM - Re: Audio Amp input (Charlie England)
10. 09:31 PM - Re: PCB Mfg board house (Eric Page)
11. 09:48 PM - Re: Audio Amp input (Eric Page)
12. 11:35 PM - Re: PCB Mfg board house (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor recommendation |
At 11:30 AM 2/17/2014, you wrote:
>Hello group
>
>Wondering if I can use a 28V cutler hammer 6041 series contactor in
>a 12V system?
>
>New Type II contactors are way too expensive and exploring good
>condition used ones.
>
>Question is, is it better to use a new inexpensive Type I contactor
>or a used Type II.
>
>Are there recommendations for good quality Type I?
I'll suggest you update yourself on the
contactor discussions here on the List.
In particular, this thread in the archives . . .
http://tinyurl.com/kdkbhk7
"Good quality" is not a quantified term.
One might infer that the speaker's concerns
are for "reliability" in the sense that the
part has an attractively low demonstrated failure rate.
Or the speaker may be referring to service life
wherein the demonstrated effects of wear-and-
tear are not so great as to necessitate unduly
frequent replacement. But then, both gross
failure and wear-out will drive a remove and
replace event . . . so perhaps there is little
value in differentiating the root cause for
the replacement.
Contactor failure rooted in any cause is of
little safety concern for the failure tolerant
design (see chapter 17) . . . it should be only
a cost-of-ownership issue.
The beer-barrel contactors from White-Rogers/
Stancore and Cole-Hersee . . .
http://tinyurl.com/lomgmle
. . . have been around for a very long time. They
demonstrate low remove/replace rates and
are quite economical. One may embrace any
number of ideas for 'upgrading' a contactor
but in the final analysis, a positive return
on investment is exceedingly hard to demonstrate.
If it were my airplane . . .
Emacs!
. . . these can be purchased from a variety
of sources.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Joining multiple wires |
[quote="Bob McC"]Don;
The last picture in the post (the "practical example")has ONE wire going to
ONE pin, just as designed. How do you feel the need to get 4 wires into the
housing??? I must be missing something in your question.
Bob McC
> --
Bob,
My apologies. I didn't see the very bottom image. I followed the sequence and
saw the multiple wires to a single ring terminal and figured that was the end
of the post.
-Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418935#418935
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Joining multiple wires |
Bob McC - For some reason, your last post did not come through on my
email, and I found it on the aeroelectric site. Thank you for the
affirmation - and you brought out a point that I have been
missing....fusing is to protect the SMALLEST wire in the downstream.
Could you provide a practical example?
Also, Bob, did you ever get the new edition of the manual completed? Is
it available? If so, I would like to make an order.
M. Haught
Marvin;
Yes. The last picture under "practical example" is one way to connect
multiple wires to a single source when space within the connector may be
an
issue. It allows for a single wire into the connector, just as it was
designed for and is an acceptable way to take that single wire to
multiple
devices. (assuming the fusing of that single source is properly
protecting
the SMALLEST wire attached downstream of it)
Bob McC
[quote] --
On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Bob McCallum wrote:
<robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
>
> Don;
>
> The last picture in the post (the "practical example")has ONE wire
going to
> ONE pin, just as designed. How do you feel the need to get 4 wires
into the
> housing??? I must be missing something in your question.
>
> Bob McC
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of donjohnston
>> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 1:30 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Joining multiple wires
>>
> <don@velocity-xl.com>
>>
>> [quote="Bob McC"]Don;
>>
>> Did you read to the very bottom of the page in the link??
>> The section called "practical example"??
>> It shows multiple wires originating from a single wire attached to a
> single
>> terminal which is, I think, what you're asking to do. (the single
wire
> would
>> go to your single pin on VPX, the multiple wires to your multiple
lights.)
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>>
>>> --
>>
>>
>> Yes, I did.
>>
>> And I wrote:
>>
>> "that could be a problem since the supply is a pin on a VPX and there
may
> not be space
>> in the connector housing (for 4 wires).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418885#418885
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> =====
>> _-
>> ========================
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>> =====
>> _-
>> ========================
====
>> =====
>> _-
>> ========================
====
>> =====
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Joining multiple wires |
At 08:51 AM 2/18/2014, you wrote:
>Bob McC - For some reason, your last post did not come through on my
>email, and I found it on the aeroelectric site. Thank you for the
>affirmation - and you brought out a point that I have been
>missing....fusing is to protect the SMALLEST wire in the
>downstream. Could you provide a practical example?
>
>Also, Bob, did you ever get the new edition of the manual
>completed? Is it available? If so, I would like to make an order.
No, that's some time off yet. I'm having to shoe-horn
it into a single word processing application and
completely review all past words and illustrations.
Rev 12 will be with us for a bit yet . . .
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Joining multiple wires |
Okay, where do I order Rev 12?
M. Haught
On Feb 18, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 08:51 AM 2/18/2014, you wrote:
>> Bob McC - For some reason, your last post did not come through on my
email, and I found it on the aeroelectric site. Thank you for the
affirmation - and you brought out a point that I have been
missing....fusing is to protect the SMALLEST wire in the downstream.
Could you provide a practical example?
>>
>> Also, Bob, did you ever get the new edition of the manual completed?
Is it available? If so, I would like to make an order.
>
> No, that's some time off yet. I'm having to shoe-horn
> it into a single word processing application and
> completely review all past words and illustrations.
>
> Rev 12 will be with us for a bit yet . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Joining multiple wires |
Marvin=3B
Lets use Ron's example of several lighting circuits off of one fuse. Preten
d he chooses to use 18 gauge wire to run out to some "ice" lights at the en
ds of the wings and from the same fuse uses 22gauge wires to bring power to
some overhead panel flood lights and some 20 gauge wire leading to a map l
ight. The fuse installed would have to be sized to protect the 22gauge wire
. The SMALLEST wire downstream of the fuse. You wouldn't want to size the f
use for the 18 gauge wire because a short on the 22 gauge might melt the wi
re before the fuse blew. A very bad idea. Also keep in mind that the fuse a
nd thus SMALLEST wire must be capable of carrying the TOTAL load of ALL ite
ms attached to that one fuse. (Even though the loads have their own individ
ual wires and all the load isn't actually carried on the smallest wire. Rem
ember the fuse protects the wire=2C nothing else.)
Bob McC
From: handainc@madisoncounty.net
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Joining multiple wires
Bob McC - For some reason=2C your last post did not come through on my emai
l=2C and I found it on the aeroelectric site. Thank you for the affirmatio
n - and you brought out a point that I have been missing....fusing is to pr
otect the SMALLEST wire in the downstream. Could you provide a practical e
xample?
Also=2C Bob=2C did you ever get the new edition of the manual completed? I
s it available? If so=2C I would like to make an order.
M. Haught
Marvin=3B=0A
=0A
Yes. The last picture under "practical example" is one way to connect=0A
multiple wires to a single source when space within the connector may be an
=0A
issue. It allows for a single wire into the connector=2C just as it was=0A
designed for and is an acceptable way to take that single wire to multiple
=0A
devices. (assuming the fusing of that single source is properly protecting
=0A
the SMALLEST wire attached downstream of it)=0A
=0A
Bob McC=0A
=0A
[quote] --
On Feb 17=2C 2014=2C at 2:23 PM=2C Bob McCallum wrote:--> AeroElectric-List
message posted by: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Don=3B
The last picture in the post (the "practical example")has ONE wire going to
ONE pin=2C just as designed. How do you feel the need to get 4 wires into t
he
housing??? I must be missing something in your question.
Bob McC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of donjohnston
Sent: Monday=2C February 17=2C 2014 1:30 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Joining multiple wires
<don@velocity-xl.com>
[quote="Bob McC"]Don=3B
Did you read to the very bottom of the page in the link??
The section called "practical example"??
It shows multiple wires originating from a single wire attached to a
single
terminal which is=2C I think=2C what you're asking to do. (the single wire
would
go to your single pin on VPX=2C the multiple wires to your multiple lights.
)
Bob McC
--
Yes=2C I did.
And I wrote:
"that could be a problem since the supply is a pin on a VPX and there may
not be space
in the connector housing (for 4 wires).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418885#418885
_-
===
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===
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===
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===
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http://www.m &n - &nbs --> h
ttp://www.matronics.com/co================
=0A
=0A
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Message 7
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Bob's audio amplifier http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/Audio_Iso_Amp_9009-700L.pdf has 10 microfarad capacitors connected to the LM386 input. Does the polarity matter in this circuit? If so, I assume that the curved part of the capacitor symbol is negative.
Are the values of the input capacitors and resistors critical? I have seen similar
circuits whose capacitors are 1 microfarad and whose resistors are 10K
or even 100K.
Thanks, Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418965#418965
Message 8
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| Subject: | PCB Mfg board house |
I recently designed a circuit board using Cadsoft Eagle. The program is not intuitive
and requires reading the directions or watching YouTube tutorials. Even
after learning the program, if not used regularly, it is soon forgotten and
requires watching the tutorial over again. I could have saved many hours by
using ExpressPCB which is very easy to learn. But I wanted to be able to use
a more competitive PCB board house. I sent my design to Elecrow in Hong Kong
and they made 5 boards 10 x 10 cm for $23 delivered. The boards are beautiful
and exactly like I ordered, including my mistakes. :-) The only disadvantage
is that it took a whole month from the time I ordered the boards until they
arrived in the mail.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418966#418966
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Audio Amp input |
On 2/18/2014 7:28 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Bob's audio amplifier http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/Audio_Iso_Amp_9009-700L.pdf has 10 microfarad capacitors connected to the LM386 input. Does the polarity matter in this circuit? If so, I assume that the curved part of the capacitor symbol is negative.
> Are the values of the input capacitors and resistors critical? I have seen
similar circuits whose capacitors are 1 microfarad and whose resistors are 10K
or even 100K.
> Thanks, Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
The straight line is the positive terminal of the capacitor.
https://www.google.com/search?q=electrolytic+capacitor+symbol&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aBEEU5SrG43ykQfX-YHQDQ&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=993
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: PCB Mfg board house |
Joe,
I agree with you re ExpressPCB, PCB123, and similar services. Their software isn't
anywhere near as competent as a commercial CAD package, your files are locked
into a format that's not portable, and you can only order boards from their
overpriced fab service.
I tried Eagle some years ago and found its interface impenetrable. I switched
to DipTrace and have never looked back. I found it much easier and more intuitive
to learn.
Take the time to set up the design rules for your board fab in DipTrace, and turn
on real-time Design Rules Checking. It will instantly show you if trace spacing
is too close, you have unconnected or cross-connected nets, etc. This reduces
board errors to zero (unless your source schematic contains errors, of
course).
Click "Buy" then "Non-Profit" to get a free license. The site also has a nice
video guided tour and PDF tutorial document.
http://www.diptrace.com/
For prototype or small run PCBs, I use OSH Park. They charge $5 per square inch
for three copies of your board, made in the USA, with free USPS First Class
Mail shipping. I've put dozens of orders through their system and been very pleased.
I had one order a year or so ago that had a manufacturing error in one
of the three boards, but they emailed to notify me before the boards even arrived.
It made no difference, as I only needed one board. The only time I use
a Chinese fab is if I need 2-ounce copper, which is very costly from domestic
fabs.
If you continue using Eagle, you can just upload your .BRD file to OSH Park. With
any other CAD package, you just upload a .ZIP containing your Gerber files.
The website shows you a rendering of what your board will look like, then you
can order. It's a very slick system. Boards typically arrive in less than
two weeks.
http://www.oshpark.com/
If you do surface mount designs and want to simplify assembly by using a solder
paste stencil, you can get them for very reasonable prices at OSH Stencils.
Like OSH Park, you just upload a .ZIP containing your board outline and top paste
Gerbers, and the site shows you a picture of your stencil before you order.
My last order for two stencils was produced the day after I ordered and arrived
in about four days.
http://www.oshstencils.com/
Eric
On Feb 18, 2014, at 8:51 PM, "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
> I recently designed a circuit board using Cadsoft Eagle. The program is not
intuitive and requires reading the directions or watching YouTube tutorials.
Even after learning the program, if not used regularly, it is soon forgotten and
requires watching the tutorial over again. I could have saved many hours by
using ExpressPCB which is very easy to learn. But I wanted to be able to use
a more competitive PCB board house. I sent my design to Elecrow in Hong Kong
and they made 5 boards 10 x 10 cm for $23 delivered. The boards are beautiful
and exactly like I ordered, including my mistakes. :-) The only disadvantage
is that it took a whole month from the time I ordered the boards until they
arrived in the mail.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Audio Amp input |
Joe,
If you really want to split hairs, the symbol on Bob's schematic does mean polarized
capacitor, but many symbol guides use it interchangeably with the symbol
that uses two straight lines (unpolarized). For schematics drawn in the US,
unless you see a "+" on the straight line, it's generally safe to assume the cap
is unpolarized.
If you look at the photos of Bob's circuit board, you can see that he used unpolarized
ceramic capacitors across the board.
I'll leave it to Bob to handle your question about R and C values on the input.
I suspect he chose those values for reasons of impedance matching...
Eric
On Feb 18, 2014, at 8:28 PM, "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob's audio amplifier http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/Audio_Iso_Amp_9009-700L.pdf has 10 microfarad capacitors connected to the LM386 input. Does the polarity matter in this circuit? If so, I assume that the curved part of the capacitor symbol is negative.
> Are the values of the input capacitors and resistors critical? I have seen
similar circuits whose capacitors are 1 microfarad and whose resistors are 10K
or even 100K.
> Thanks, Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: PCB Mfg board house |
Eric,
Thanks for that information.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418976#418976
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