AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 03/10/14


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:43 AM - Re: Marker Beacon Remote Indicators? (Eric M. Jones)
     2. 08:27 AM - Re: Marker Beacon Remote Indicators? (Bill Putney)
     3. 08:30 AM - Re: Timer circuit for led array (Eric M. Jones)
     4. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Timer circuit for led array (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 11:19 AM - LED Landing Lights (Eric M. Jones)
     6. 05:35 PM - Re: Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Question (Ben)
     8. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Timer circuit for led array (David Duperron)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:43:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Marker Beacon Remote Indicators?
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Maybe I'm missing something, but the color filters on the face of the PS Engineering PMA7000M-S were made to light up with plain old sort-of-white lamps. Wouldn't white LEDs do fine? -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420091#420091


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:27:14 AM PST US
    From: Bill Putney <billp@wwpc.com>
    Subject: Re: Marker Beacon Remote Indicators?
    Thanks... Yeah, I'm considering all sorts of things. I like those Dialight lamps because they don't glare like LED's tend to do. I guess I could take some sandpaper to some LED's and fix that problem. I'll take a look at the sources you listed. Thanks again, Bill On 3/9/14, 11:58 AM, Bob McCallum wrote: > > Bill; > > A quick "Google" search reveals several suppliers with part number > 507-3914-1474-600 in stock. (some are the "F" version which appears to be > the RoHS compliant model) Also some have minimums which will be a problem - > but- > http://www.masterelectronics.com shows 2 of the "F" model available to ship > http://www.onlinecomponents.com has 2 of the "F" model in stock for $4.95 > ea > http://www.sierraic.com has 688 in stock > http://www.componentsmax.com says they have 51,800 in stock > http://www.harrykrantz.com shows 17 available > > Why not an LED indicator which would have a better service life than the > incandescent model quoted?? > > Bob McC > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Putney >> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 2:05 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marker Beacon Remote Indicators? >> >> >> Does anyone have a resource for 14V White, Amber, and Blue indicators. >> >> I am reorganizing my panel and the audio panel (PS Engineering >> PMA7000M-S) is going to be out of easy field of view for approaches. The >> PMA7000M-S has pins on the connector for remote lights so it won't be >> too hard to wire it up. The real problem is that I'm finding it really >> hard to find small incandescent lamps. >> >> I'd love to find some Dialight 507-3914 series 14V cartridge lamps and >> holders. They're just about the right size. I see them available in >> white and amber but no blue. There's a hole in the part number series >> where the blue one was and I've found a reference for them but it says >> "Obsolete" and stock "0". :( >> >> These are either Dialight 507-3914-1474-600 or MS-18235-2BT. Someone >> probably has a drawer full of them somewhere... >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> _- >> ===================================================== >> ===== >> _- >> ===================================================== >> ===== >> _- >> ===================================================== >> ===== >> _- >> ===================================================== >> ===== >> >> > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:30:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Timer circuit for led array
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    Some years ago I published the attached regarding the use of LEDs for beacons. I was gratified to know it was pretty much right on because Whelen called me to make a minor correction. They said their engineers love it and use it. It is a companion piece to the LED article also attached which was written for Kitplanes...but remains unpublished. It is easy to make bad LED lighting, and there's a lot of it on the market. Be careful. Some day the FAA might introduce a ramp-check lighting standard. This will happen after a well-publicized accident caused by homemade LED lighting. Now, on timer circuits: (the pertains to Wig-wags, but the same would apply to single pulse units) The difficult problem with using a 555 timer is figuring out how to avoid the 150% first pulse. (I.e. the first pulse is 1-1/2 times as long as the remaining pulses.) I know a couple ways to do this but finally decided the easy way was to ditch the 555 and use a CD4060 14-stage binary ripple counter. The 150% first pulse problem is still there but it is now divided by 256...so it is not noticeable. Various pulse times are just a matter of switching resistors. The circuit is the size of a postage stamp and needs no heat sink. I have sold these in single pulse units for beacons and single landing light aircraft with the output timing 375 ms ON/OFF. I am still working on a system for my own airplane that would consist of half-a-dozen or more synced LEDs instead of a beacon sticking into the breeze. I think this is FAA legal (Bob?). The FAA historically loves red beacons, although white strobes are common, big red LEDs make a heck of a beacon. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420094#420094 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wig_wag_d6d_schematic_121.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/led_lighting_article_draft_13may08_525.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/aircraft_beacons_using_leds_307.pdf


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:34:14 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Timer circuit for led array
    At 10:29 AM 3/10/2014, you wrote: Some years ago I published the attached regarding the use of LEDs for beacons. I was gratified to know it was pretty much right on because Whelen called me to make a minor correction. They said their engineers love it and use it. It is a companion piece to the LED article also attached which was written for Kitplanes...but remains unpublished. Pretty heavy reading for a Kitplanes subscriber . . . I'm wrestling with the 4th installment on batteries with a focus on lithium . . . and trying to peel back the layers on the physics onion without getting too deep . . . If you wish, I'd be pleased to post both articles to aeroelectric.com It is easy to make bad LED lighting, and there's a lot of it on the market. Be careful. Some day the FAA might introduce a ramp-check lighting standard. This will happen after a well-publicized accident caused by homemade LED lighting. Not seeing much risk here . . . the fact that one of the airplanes involved had 'unapproved' lighting goes only to the sanctity of number published by those-who-know-more- about-airplanes-than-we-do and little to do with known facts for cause-effect. The vast majority of airplanes attempting to occupy the same airspace had 'approved' lighting on them. Whether the lights were even ON is not generally a provable condition. But in some cases, as many as four pilots had their heads down . . . no doubt getting an update from the moving map . . . or pouring coffee . . . who knows? http://tinyurl.com/k5alncy I thought I had the NTSB docs on this incident but can't find them now. NTSB monthly index doesn't cite it either . . . Hmmmm . . . But the idea that putting any kind of requirements on lighting characteristics will have a quantifiable effect on accident rates is unsupportable. Now, on timer circuits: (the pertains to Wig-wags, but the same would apply to single pulse units) The difficult problem with using a 555 timer is figuring out how to avoid the 150% first pulse. (I.e. the first pulse is 1-1/2 times as long as the remaining pulses.) I know a couple ways to do this but finally decided the easy way was to ditch the 555 and use a CD4060 14-stage binary ripple counter. The 150% first pulse problem is still there but it is now divided by 256...so it is not noticeable. Various pulse times are just a matter of switching resistors. The circuit is the size of a postage stamp and needs no heat sink. Yeah, I went the software route . . . I have sold these in single pulse units for beacons and single landing light aircraft with the output timing 375 ms ON/OFF. I am still working on a system for my own airplane that would consist of half-a-dozen or more synced LEDs instead of a beacon sticking into the breeze. I think this is FAA legal (Bob?). You got me my friend . . . I'm not sure most of the regulators have the tools and experience to know . . . the safe thing to do is fall back on the regs and somebody else's approvals that came from some desk in OKC. The FAA historically loves red beacons, although white strobes are common, big red LEDs make a heck of a beacon. You bet . . . long stripes of lighting make for much larger viewing angles . . . problem is getting them embedded into surfaces that are the most critical to flight characteristics . . . the stagnation line along leading edges . . . where de-ice systems like to reside. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:19:51 AM PST US
    Subject: LED Landing Lights
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    A customer of mine tried these LED MR-16 lamps and he says they look brighter than the 75W lamps they replace. Google: " Soraa 00241 11.5 Watt LED MR16 75W " And hey, that's 1A each to replace 6A each. You might also try DX.com SKU: 286991 MR16 9W 760lm 6500K -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420108#420108


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:35:00 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Question
    At 05:44 PM 3/10/2014, you wrote: Bob, >I have a copy of the Aeroelectric "manual." Great book/manual. Like >everyone I am taking a different approach. I'm sure you have had similar >questions. I have a Chevy LS-1/V8 on my kit (Murphy Moose). I have dual >alternators, a CS-130 and a CS-130D both capable of 80A output. I am using >dual alternators/batteries as I have electronic ignition and the loss of >the alternator is equivalent to an engine out. Have you done an energy budge study on this project? How many watts of power are required to keep the engine running? >Question 1: So how good are the voltage regulators in these alternators >(mine are from PowerMaster). Reading your manual, I get the need for the >regulation. I'm wondering if it's worth taking out the regulators in the >alternators and use those from B&C or do I stick with those in the >Alternator? Alternatively (no pun intended) is there another method of >regulation I should consider. Can't deal with this question intelligently until I understand your energy requirements and we ponder the options for architectures. >Question 2: Looking at some of the StarkPower lithium batteries... a >little expensive, but really light and lots of power. do you see any issues >with these? LOTS of issues . . . which I'm wrestling with in a series of articles for Kitplanes. There is MUCH that is experimental about the system you described. Suggest you take Uncle Bert's advice to heart when he said, "Playing with an experimental engine? Do it on a solid old TC airframe. Playing with an new airframe?, fly it first with a known-quantity engine." Lithium is NOT known quantity yet . . . suggest you stay with SVLA for the interim. In the mean time, let's talk about your design goals and system requirements on the List so that what we discover can be shared . . . Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:17:37 PM PST US
    From: "Ben" <n801bh@NetZero.com>
    Subject: Re: Question
    I will chime in here as I built and fly a V-8 alternative engine experim ental...Mine is a V-8 347 cu in stroker Ford using MSD ignition and a ca rb... I also run a Holley "red": fuel pump that delivers 6 PSI... The OP has a LS-1 that needs a high pressure fuel pump running ALL the time so power demands are higher, but not out of sight.. My motor needs 1 amp f or every 1000 rpms to run the ignition system and 4 amps for the Holley fuel boost pump I ran for take offs and landings.. I run a Optima Red T op 1000CCA battery for both rear weight ballast and longevity in case of an alternator failure. The DAR that inspected my plane asked that parti cular question and by my calculations I figured I had enough spare power in the battery alone to fly 7 hours, land, refuel, fly another 7 hours. land, refuel, fly another 7 hours and by that time I would be getting c lose to the point of ignition misfire from low power... I told him if I was stupid enough to take off 3 times with a known failed alternator I d eserve to crash.... He agreed and signed off my plane... 500+ hours late r the V-8 runs perfectly.. In fact my plane is on the top of the front c over of this months Kitplanes magazine... <GG> As for the OP's question. . Your answer is in the capacity or your battery... IMHO Ben Haas.www.ha aspowerair.com Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question olls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 05:44 PM 3/10/2014, you wrote: Bob, >I have a copy of the Aeroelectric "manual." Great book/manual. Like >everyone I am taking a different approach. I'm sure you have had simil ar >questions. I have a Chevy LS-1/V8 on my kit (Murphy Moose). I have du al >alternators, a CS-130 and a CS-130D both capable of 80A output. I am u sing >dual alternators/batteries as I have electronic ignition and the loss o f >the alternator is equivalent to an engine out. Have you done an energy budge study on this project? How many watts of power are required to keep the engine running? >Question 1: So how good are the voltage regulators in these alternators >(mine are from PowerMaster). Reading your manual, I get the need for t he >regulation. I'm wondering if it's worth taking out the regulators in th e >alternators and use those from B&C or do I stick with those in the >Alternator? Alternatively (no pun intended) is there another method of >regulation I should consider. Can't deal with this question intelligently until I understand your energy requirements and we ponder the options for architectures. >Question 2: Looking at some of the StarkPower lithium batteries... a >little expensive, but really light and lots of power. do you see any is sues >with these? LOTS of issues . . . which I'm wrestling with in a series of articles for Kitplanes. There is MUCH that is experimental about the system you described. Suggest you take Uncle Bert's advice to heart when he said, "Playing with an experimental engine? Do it on a solid old TC airframe. Playing with an new airframe?, fly it first with a known-quantity engine." Lithium is NOT known quantity yet . . . suggest you stay with SVLA for the interim. In the mean time, let's talk about your design goals and system requirements on the List so that what we discover can be shared . . . Bob . . . ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ____________________________________________________________ How to Stay Asleep All Night Try this one weird trick to put your sleep troubles to rest. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/531e63cac447a63ca34ffst03duc


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:19:48 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Timer circuit for led array
    From: David Duperron <davedup10@gmail.com>
    I'm looking for a timer to shut off my cabin overhead utility light after about 10 minutes of operation. It's fed directly from the main battery buss and I would like to know that if I forgot to turn it off the timer would do it for me before draining the battery. Any ideas? David Duperron dapadup@chartermi.net On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Eric M. Jones <emjones@charter.net> wrote: > emjones@charter.net> > > Some years ago I published the attached regarding the use of LEDs for > beacons. I was gratified to know it was pretty much right on because Whelen > called me to make a minor correction. They said their engineers love it and > use it. It is a companion piece to the LED article also attached which was > written for Kitplanes...but remains unpublished. > > It is easy to make bad LED lighting, and there's a lot of it on the > market. Be careful. Some day the FAA might introduce a ramp-check lighting > standard. This will happen after a well-publicized accident caused by > homemade LED lighting. > > Now, on timer circuits: (the pertains to Wig-wags, but the same would > apply to single pulse units) The difficult problem with using a 555 timer > is figuring out how to avoid the 150% first pulse. (I.e. the first pulse is > 1-1/2 times as long as the remaining pulses.) I know a couple ways to do > this but finally decided the easy way was to ditch the 555 and use a CD4060 > 14-stage binary ripple counter. The 150% first pulse problem is still there > but it is now divided by 256...so it is not noticeable. Various pulse times > are just a matter of switching resistors. The circuit is the size of a > postage stamp and needs no heat sink. > > I have sold these in single pulse units for beacons and single landing > light aircraft with the output timing 375 ms ON/OFF. > > I am still working on a system for my own airplane that would consist of > half-a-dozen or more synced LEDs instead of a beacon sticking into the > breeze. I think this is FAA legal (Bob?). The FAA historically loves red > beacons, although white strobes are common, big red LEDs make a heck of a > beacon. > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones(at)charter.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420094#420094 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wig_wag_d6d_schematic_121.pdf > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/led_lighting_article_draft_13may08_525.pdf > http://forums.matronics.com//files/aircraft_beacons_using_leds_307.pdf > >




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