---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/15/14: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:50 AM - Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector (Jay Hyde) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector (Craig L. Reding) 3. 10:36 AM - Lithium batteries (Thomas E Blejwas) 4. 11:28 AM - Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector (Eric M. Jones) 5. 12:10 PM - Re: Lithium batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector (Roger & Jean) 7. 06:43 PM - Re: Lithium batteries (B Tomm) 8. 06:57 PM - Re: Lithium batteries (Michael McMahon) 9. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 08:04 PM - Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 09:40 PM - Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector (Craig Reding) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:30 AM PST US From: "Jay Hyde" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector That's a perfectly acceptable way to do it; I have used that method many times without any problems. Jay From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Reding Sent: 13 March 2014 11:46 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector In the sprit of the comic books that Bob has put together which have proven so valuable I need to split a shielded wire into 2 pins on on a DSUB. I am sure that what I did would be an acceptable approach but is there a better way? this is a 2 conductor shielded wire. I have already added a pigtail using a solder sleeve thanks for the help I striped off a 1/4 inch strip of insulation about 1 1/2 inches back from the pin I following Bob's comic book on splicing wires i teased out a couple of strands of the wire to be joined Wrapped and soldered added shrink wrap and crimped on the pin ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector From: "Craig L. Reding" Jay Thanks > On Mar 15, 2014, at 4:47 AM, "Jay Hyde" wrote: > > That=99s a perfectly acceptable way to do it; I have used that metho d many times without any problems. > > Jay > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Reding > Sent: 13 March 2014 11:46 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector > > > In the sprit of the comic books that Bob has put together which have prov en so valuable > > I need to split a shielded wire into 2 pins on on a DSUB. I am sure that w hat I did would be an acceptable approach but is there a better way? > this is a 2 conductor shielded wire. I have already added a pigtail using a solder sleeve > > thanks for the help > > > I striped off a 1/4 inch strip of insulation about 1 1/2 inches back from t he pin > I > > following Bob=99s comic book on splicing wires i teased out a couple of strands of the wire to be joined > > > Wrapped and soldered > > > added shrink wrap and crimped on the pin > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries From: Thomas E Blejwas Bob, Don't know which message it was in, but you mentioned that you we were working on the last battery article for Kitplanes that would include lithium batteries. I hope you will look at the EarthX batteries. They are now recommended on the Viking website, so I've read their promotions. They actually have a section on their website for experimental aircraft applications and they claim to deal with charging/discharging issues that other lithium-iron-phosphate batteries don't. I learned the hard way (had a meter lead plugged into the wrong socket) that a brief inadvertent short of a Shorai battery will ruin it. Still haven't heard of any explosive failures of batteries with this chemistry. I look forward to your article. Tom Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:02 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector From: "Eric M. Jones" For frequencies above about a MHz, this shouldn't be done, since the insulation itself carries the signal. See attached. By the way. I ran across a paper that recommended wire-nuts for connecting multiple wires. Is there some reason not to do this? -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420383#420383 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electricity_565.pdf ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries At 12:35 PM 3/15/2014, you wrote: > > >Bob, > >Don't know which message it was in, but you mentioned that you we >were working on the last battery article for Kitplanes that would >include lithium batteries. I hope you will look at the EarthX >batteries. They are now recommended on the Viking website, so I've >read their promotions. They actually have a section on their >website for experimental aircraft applications and they claim to >deal with charging/discharging issues that other >lithium-iron-phosphate batteries don't. I learned the hard way (had >a meter lead plugged into the wrong socket) that a brief inadvertent >short of a Shorai battery will ruin it. Still haven't heard of any >explosive failures of batteries with this chemistry. I look forward >to your article. > >Tom Excellent input . . . thanks. I'll add them to the 'research'. So far I've submitted three articles that speak to battery selection and operations in general. The 4th is taking longer than I thought . . . input from folks like yourself have been helping me peel away the layers of the onion . . . In the mean time, I'm submitting an article on mean time between failure and how it has little or nothing to do with system reliability. The article will be a prelude to chapter 4 on lithium batteries where I'll remind readers that irrespective of their battery choice, the electrically dependent engine places new requirements on batteries. Builders they need to look past the marketing rhetoric for weight, cranking ability and any mumbling that speaks to 'safety'. It's unfortunate that all the smoke and fire (no pun intended) has pushed performance issues to the back of the bus. The article are to remind builders that they need to purchase to design goals then test and maintain to those goals. A Kitplanes reader wrote Paul Dye to take issue with a statement I made to the effect that I'd never read of an accident where a backup system would have made a difference. The "box" into which the pilot driven was profound and in-escapable. He related the fact that during a flight behind his electrically dependent engine, a wire came loose ad "took down the main bus". He said that the presence of a back-up battery and a constellation of switches to access it saved the day. Through a couple of exchanges I discovered that he had a hefty alternator and a 34 a.h. battery . . . both of which became unavailable to him thus forcing dependance upon a small 'backup' battery. I suggested that while his particular system WAS tolerant of that particular failure, it was not very robust. I hoped to engage him in conversation that would reduce his reliance on a backup battery . . . but he was rather unhappy about my assessment. The point to be pondered is that no matter what kind of battery you have on board, failure tolerance has little to do with choice of parts, their MTBF numbers or their marketing position amongst the stars of products. I'm getting no outpouring of data to support anyone's marketing hype. E-mails are brushed aside with an assertion of no comment, use on airplanes is not supported, or simply ignored. This has been an interesting exercise . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:06 PM PST US From: "Roger & Jean" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector > > By the way. I ran across a paper that recommended wire-nuts for connecting > multiple wires. Is there some reason not to do this? The main reason that I could see is the added bulk of the wire nuts might make it difficult to impossible to add a cover to the connector. Roger ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:32 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries Bob, I agree that EarthX, based on their forthcoming dialog, substance in their answers, and willingness to support the amateur aircraft builders (even encourage the use of their batteries in our aircraft, and why) has them on my short list for when I finally need a battery for the RV7A. I strongly suggest that you get in touch with them for your article. It will be very easy to have an audience there. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries --> At 12:35 PM 3/15/2014, you wrote: > > >Bob, > >Don't know which message it was in, but you mentioned that you we were >working on the last battery article for Kitplanes that would include >lithium batteries. I hope you will look at the EarthX batteries. They >are now recommended on the Viking website, so I've read their >promotions. They actually have a section on their website for >experimental aircraft applications and they claim to deal with >charging/discharging issues that other lithium-iron-phosphate batteries >don't. I learned the hard way (had a meter lead plugged into the wrong >socket) that a brief inadvertent short of a Shorai battery will ruin >it. Still haven't heard of any explosive failures of batteries with >this chemistry. I look forward to your article. > >Tom Excellent input . . . thanks. I'll add them to the 'research'. So far I've submitted three articles that speak to battery selection and operations in general. The 4th is taking longer than I thought . . . input from folks like yourself have been helping me peel away the layers of the onion . . . In the mean time, I'm submitting an article on mean time between failure and how it has little or nothing to do with system reliability. The article will be a prelude to chapter 4 on lithium batteries where I'll remind readers that irrespective of their battery choice, the electrically dependent engine places new requirements on batteries. Builders they need to look past the marketing rhetoric for weight, cranking ability and any mumbling that speaks to 'safety'. It's unfortunate that all the smoke and fire (no pun intended) has pushed performance issues to the back of the bus. The article are to remind builders that they need to purchase to design goals then test and maintain to those goals. A Kitplanes reader wrote Paul Dye to take issue with a statement I made to the effect that I'd never read of an accident where a backup system would have made a difference. The "box" into which the pilot driven was profound and in-escapable. He related the fact that during a flight behind his electrically dependent engine, a wire came loose ad "took down the main bus". He said that the presence of a back-up battery and a constellation of switches to access it saved the day. Through a couple of exchanges I discovered that he had a hefty alternator and a 34 a.h. battery . . . both of which became unavailable to him thus forcing dependance upon a small 'backup' battery. I suggested that while his particular system WAS tolerant of that particular failure, it was not very robust. I hoped to engage him in conversation that would reduce his reliance on a backup battery . . . but he was rather unhappy about my assessment. The point to be pondered is that no matter what kind of battery you have on board, failure tolerance has little to do with choice of parts, their MTBF numbers or their marketing position amongst the stars of products. I'm getting no outpouring of data to support anyone's marketing hype. E-mails are brushed aside with an assertion of no comment, use on airplanes is not supported, or simply ignored. This has been an interesting exercise . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:17 PM PST US From: "Michael McMahon" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries Mr. Brent Regan is apparently an expert on the use of Lithium batteries in aircraft. I attempted to start a discussion on the LML list a few years ago and he shut me down with his expertise. You may want to tap into his exhaustive research on the subject: http://lancair.net/lists/lml/Message/57030-P.txt Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:43 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries Bob, I agree that EarthX, based on their forthcoming dialog, substance in their answers, and willingness to support the amateur aircraft builders (even encourage the use of their batteries in our aircraft, and why) has them on my short list for when I finally need a battery for the RV7A. I strongly suggest that you get in touch with them for your article. It will be very easy to have an audience there. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries --> At 12:35 PM 3/15/2014, you wrote: > > >Bob, > >Don't know which message it was in, but you mentioned that you we were >working on the last battery article for Kitplanes that would include >lithium batteries. I hope you will look at the EarthX batteries. They >are now recommended on the Viking website, so I've read their >promotions. They actually have a section on their website for >experimental aircraft applications and they claim to deal with >charging/discharging issues that other lithium-iron-phosphate batteries >don't. I learned the hard way (had a meter lead plugged into the wrong >socket) that a brief inadvertent short of a Shorai battery will ruin >it. Still haven't heard of any explosive failures of batteries with >this chemistry. I look forward to your article. > >Tom Excellent input . . . thanks. I'll add them to the 'research'. So far I've submitted three articles that speak to battery selection and operations in general. The 4th is taking longer than I thought . . . input from folks like yourself have been helping me peel away the layers of the onion . . . In the mean time, I'm submitting an article on mean time between failure and how it has little or nothing to do with system reliability. The article will be a prelude to chapter 4 on lithium batteries where I'll remind readers that irrespective of their battery choice, the electrically dependent engine places new requirements on batteries. Builders they need to look past the marketing rhetoric for weight, cranking ability and any mumbling that speaks to 'safety'. It's unfortunate that all the smoke and fire (no pun intended) has pushed performance issues to the back of the bus. The article are to remind builders that they need to purchase to design goals then test and maintain to those goals. A Kitplanes reader wrote Paul Dye to take issue with a statement I made to the effect that I'd never read of an accident where a backup system would have made a difference. The "box" into which the pilot driven was profound and in-escapable. He related the fact that during a flight behind his electrically dependent engine, a wire came loose ad "took down the main bus". He said that the presence of a back-up battery and a constellation of switches to access it saved the day. Through a couple of exchanges I discovered that he had a hefty alternator and a 34 a.h. battery . . . both of which became unavailable to him thus forcing dependance upon a small 'backup' battery. I suggested that while his particular system WAS tolerant of that particular failure, it was not very robust. I hoped to engage him in conversation that would reduce his reliance on a backup battery . . . but he was rather unhappy about my assessment. The point to be pondered is that no matter what kind of battery you have on board, failure tolerance has little to do with choice of parts, their MTBF numbers or their marketing position amongst the stars of products. I'm getting no outpouring of data to support anyone's marketing hype. E-mails are brushed aside with an assertion of no comment, use on airplanes is not supported, or simply ignored. This has been an interesting exercise . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:31 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector At 01:27 PM 3/15/2014, you wrote: > >For frequencies above about a MHz, this shouldn't be done, since the >insulation itself carries the signal. See attached. I'd like to see the physics of this explained. Yes, there is a skin-effect that pushes the current flow to the surface of the conductor http://tinyurl.com/n2h9ljy . . . but carried on the insulation? >By the way. I ran across a paper that recommended wire-nuts for >connecting multiple wires. Is there some reason not to do this? Wire nuts? Like this? [] Not recommended for aircraft Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector > > >I need to split a shielded wire into 2 pins on on a DSUB. I am sure >that what I did would be an acceptable approach but is there a better way? >this is a 2 conductor shielded wire. I have already added a pigtail >using a solder sleeve > >thanks for the help Works good, lasts a long time . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: spliting 2 wires at a dsub connector From: Craig Reding Bob, Thank you very much for all of your lessons! On Mar 15, 2014, at 10:59 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > >> >> >> I need to split a shielded wire into 2 pins on on a DSUB. I am sure that what I did would be an acceptable approach but is there a better way? >> this is a 2 conductor shielded wire. I have already added a pigtail using a solder sleeve >> >> thanks for the help > > > > > > Works good, lasts a long time . . . > > > Bob . . . > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.