Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:19 AM - Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? (Sacha)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: lm7321 substatute (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:28 AM - Re: lm7321 substatute (Bill S)
4. 09:45 AM - Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? (John)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? (airelectricjim)
6. 11:43 AM - Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:21 PM - Re: lm7321 substatute (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:38 PM - Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about Rivnuts (Jeff Luckey)
9. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:42 PM - Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about Rivnuts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 01:14 PM - Re: lm7321 substatute (Bill S)
12. 01:27 PM - Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about Rivnuts (Jeff Luckey)
13. 01:36 PM - Re: lm7321 substatute (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 01:53 PM - Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about Rivnuts (Sacha)
15. 03:09 PM - Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about Rivnuts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 06:00 PM - Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about Rivnuts (Kelly McMullen)
17. 06:48 PM - Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about Rivnuts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? |
Thank you Jeff!
do not archive
> On Apr 30, 2014, at 6:44, Jeff Luckey <jluckey@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> Mounting the battery on its side and the contactors horizontally is just f
ine. It won't affect the operation of either device.
>
>
> From: Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 6:41 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount hor
izontally?
>
>
> Quick question about Battery and contactor installation position:
>
> I am moving my battery aft and am planning to make an installation similar
to the example on Bob's website at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Bat
tery_Grounds/Battery_Grounds.html
> Except that instead of having the (SVLA) battery upright I want it on its s
ide. Is that ok? And is it ok to mount the master and starter contactors hor
izontally (I'm planning to use rivnuts and bolt them to a horizontal sheet o
f stainless steel) instead of using L-shctric-List" target="_blank">http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectrp; --> http:=========
==============
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: lm7321 substatute |
At 12:50 PM 4/29/2014, you wrote:
>
>Bob Can you recomend a substatute for a lm7321 opamp, in a din
>package? The sot23 package is just tooooooo small for me to work
>with. Thanks Bill S.
What's the application? Can you share a schematic
along with a description of function? There are probably
100+ suitable substitutes with rare exception . . . I
don't want to offer substitute that stumbles over
an exception.
The LM7321 is a fine example of the current state
of op-amp art. Low voltage performance, rail-to-rail
input and outputs, lots of drive capability, etc.
http://tinyurl.com/otlg7je
However, depending on requirements for the circuit
you're crafting, you may NEED few if any of these
stellar features.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: lm7321 substatute |
At 10:59 AM 12/22/2011, you wrote:
>I am wanting to parllel two Ray Allen RP3 led position indicators useing
>only one POS5 position sensor. RAC said that thay wont work just parelling
>them and that I need to add another position sensor or a switch which I
>would rather not do. Can anyone sudjest an electrical ckt. that would work
>for this? Thanks Bill S.
>
You need a 'buffer-amplifier' between the position
feedback potentiometer and ONE of the two indicators.
The problem with paralleling the two indicators arises
from the fact that they're not a 'high impedance' voltmeter.
The system is calibrated for one pot driving one indicator.
Adding a second indicator doubles the load on the position
signal from the potentiometer.
The 'fix' is to convert one of the indicators into a
high-impedance voltmeter. You need an operational
amplifier with rail-to-rail inputs and outputs. A device
like the LM7321 would probably work.
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/LM7321MF%2FNOPB/LM7321MFCT-ND/1878646
Adding this device to the second indicator prevents
it from loading the potentiometer. You need to
fabricate something like this . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Ray-Allen_Dual_Indicators.pdf
It could be fabricated on an etched circuit board
that would fit inside a d-sub connector back shell.
Bob . . .
>>Bob Can you recomend a substatute for a lm7321 opamp, in a din package?
>>The sot23 package is just tooooooo small for me to work with. Thanks
>>Bill S.
>
> What's the application? Can you share a schematic
> along with a description of function? There are probably
> 100+ suitable substitutes with rare exception . . . I
> don't want to offer substitute that stumbles over
> an exception.
>
> The LM7321 is a fine example of the current state
> of op-amp art. Low voltage performance, rail-to-rail
> input and outputs, lots of drive capability, etc.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/otlg7je
>
> However, depending on requirements for the circuit
> you're crafting, you may NEED few if any of these
> stellar features.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? |
Mounting position is definitely a consideration with some contactors.
There are units that are designed for horizontal mounting,
or are position insensitive, but there are others that are not. The
Series 70 White-Rogers units, that have been very commonly
used in aircraft for decades are position sensitive. Here is a link to
some info:
http://www.emersonclimate.com/Documents/White-Rodgers/sell_sheets/R-4003web.pdf
<http://www.emersonclimate.com/Documents/White-Rodgers/sell_sheets/R-4003web.pdf>
This literature recommends dome, or cap, down. Depending on whether the
unit is used as a master or start "solenoid", some
recommend mounting dome up These solenoid/contactors will seem to work
OK either way, but there is more potential wear
and possibility of binding or improper operation if they are operated
horizontally.
/John
/
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? |
Hi, Jeff,
A word of caution for rivnuts: Be sure that you use rivnuts that are HARDER than
the substrate, in your case stainless steel. Rivnuts have a bad habit of loosening
in their holes, making the bolt nigh onto impossible to unscrew. Don't
ask me how I know!
This might be even worse if you use aluminum rivnuts, as there will be corrosion
between the metals, which will act as a lubricant.
Jim
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422600#422600
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? |
At 11:44 AM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
Mounting position is definitely a consideration with some contactors.
There are units that are designed for horizontal mounting, or are
position insensitive, but there are others that are not. The Series
70 White-Rogers units, that have been very commonly used in aircraft
for decades are position sensitive. Here is a link to some info:
http://www.emersonclimate.com/Documents/White-Rodgers/sell_sheets/R-4003web.pdf
This literature recommends dome, or cap, down. Depending on whether
the unit is used as a master or start "solenoid", some
recommend mounting dome up These solenoid/contactors will seem to
work OK either way, but there is more potential wear
and possibility of binding or improper operation if they are operated
horizontally.
We've had some discussion about both alleged
and demonstrated position sensitivity of these
contactors here on the List . . . here is but
one of several dialogs . . .
http://tinyurl.com/p8uv67n
In other discussions we deduced that the W/R
Type 70 is not well suited to starter contactor
service even in the intermittent version. There
are similarly priced contactors optimized for
starter contactor service.
http://tinyurl.com/n9sql7g
http://tinyurl.com/o5turon
As a battery contactor mounted in a location
certain to be 'drip free', a horizontal mounting
doesn't give rise to great concerns. In any
case, concerns for in-flight g-loading of contactors
has no demonstrable foundation in physics or practice.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: lm7321 substatute |
At 10:27 AM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
>
OOOPS! The 7321 was my selection . . . not sure
why I went with SOT23 only except that my head
was probably thinking about packaging in the
dsub housing . . .
Refresh my memory, we ARE talking about a 5v
system? This op amp would do the job
http://tinyurl.com/ol9jm4v
but it's limited to 7.5v max supply voltage.
It IS in stock at Digikey at 0.88 each.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? |
Now about Rivnuts
(Please pardon the hijacking of this thread...)=0A=0A=0AJim,=0A=0AI wasn't
the original poster on this thread.- I think it was Sacha.- However, sp
eaking of Rivnuts...=0A=0AI've experienced some of the issues you are talki
ng about.- The last few times I've used Rivnuts, I put an internal-tooth
lockwasher on the back side of the Rivnut before squeezing it, so that it g
ets clamped between the work surface and the bulge formed by squeezing.=0A
=0AThis give some additional thickness for the Rivnut and some sharp edges
to help prevent rotation years from now.- IIRC I had some difficulty find
ing appropriate lock washers because they need to fit over the shank of the
Rivnut with very little slop, otherwise the teeth won't be engaged by the
bulge.- Ended up using metric lock washers because they fit the best over
the shank of the #8 Rivnut.=0A=0ANot sure what the long term results will
be since it has only been a year or two since I did this install - will let
you know in 5-10 years ;)=0A=0A-Jeff=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0A From: airelectricjim <jamesmcburney002@gmail.com>=0ATo: aeroel
ectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:55 AM=0ASubj
ect: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount hori
" <jamesmcburney002@gmail.com>=0A=0AHi, Jeff,=0AA word of caution for rivnu
ts:- Be sure that you use rivnuts that are HARDER than the substrate, in
your case stainless steel.- Rivnuts have a bad habit of loosening in thei
r holes, making the bolt nigh onto impossible to unscrew.- - Don't ask
me how I know!=0A=0AThis might be even worse if you use aluminum rivnuts, a
s there will be corrosion between the metals, which will act as a lubricant
.=0A=0AJim=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422600#422600=0A=0A=0A
======================
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Battery and master contactor - ok to mount |
horizontally?
At 11:55 AM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
><jamesmcburney002@gmail.com>
>
>Hi, Jeff,
>A word of caution for rivnuts: Be sure that you use rivnuts that
>are HARDER than the substrate, in your case stainless
>steel. Rivnuts have a bad habit of loosening in their holes, making
>the bolt nigh onto impossible to unscrew. Don't ask me how I know!
>
>This might be even worse if you use aluminum rivnuts, as there will
>be corrosion between the metals, which will act as a lubricant.
Good catch Jim . . . rivnuts are problematic
If he cannot get at the back side to install
a real 10-32 nutplate, I think I'd fabricate
a scab-on with nutplates to mount the
contactor. The scab plate needs to have sufficient
footprint so that pop-rivets used to fasten
it to the aircraft surface are not under
the contactor's mounting feet.
I would then cut clearance holes in the
aircraft surface for the nutplates and pop-
rivet the scab with a half dozen or so aluminum
rivets.
This is the sure-bet prophylactic against that
gut wrenching experience of having the rivnut
spin in the hole while trying to dismount the
contactor . . . just hate it when that happens!
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount |
horizontally? Now about Rivnuts
At 02:37 PM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
>(Please pardon the hijacking of this thread...)
>
>
>Jim,
>
>I wasn't the original poster on this thread. I think it was
>Sacha. However, speaking of Rivnuts...
>
>I've experienced some of the issues you are talking about. The last
>few times I've used Rivnuts, I put an internal-tooth lockwasher on
>the back side of the Rivnut before squeezing it, so that it gets
>clamped between the work surface and the bulge formed by squeezing.
Nice vaccination against spinning rivnut syndrome
. . . but if you could get at the back side, why not
nutplates?
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: lm7321 substatute |
The opamp should be rated at least 15v min.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: lm7321 substatute
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 10:27 AM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
>>
>
> OOOPS! The 7321 was my selection . . . not sure
> why I went with SOT23 only except that my head
> was probably thinking about packaging in the
> dsub housing . . .
>
> Refresh my memory, we ARE talking about a 5v
> system? This op amp would do the job
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ol9jm4v
>
> but it's limited to 7.5v max supply voltage.
> It IS in stock at Digikey at 0.88 each.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount |
horizontally? Now about Rivnuts
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 12:42 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-Lis
t: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount horizontally? Now about
lls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0A=0AAt 02:37 PM 4/30/2014, you w
rote:=0A>(Please pardon the hijacking of this thread...)=0A>=0A>=0A>Jim,=0A
>=0A>I wasn't the original poster on this thread.- I think it was =0A>Sac
ha.- However, speaking of Rivnuts...=0A>=0A>I've experienced some of the
issues you are talking about.- The last =0A>few times I've used Rivnuts,
I put an internal-tooth lockwasher on =0A>the back side of the Rivnut befor
e squeezing it, so that it gets =0A>clamped between the work surface and th
e bulge formed by squeezing.=0A=0A- Nice vaccination against spinning ri
vnut syndrome=0A- . . . but if you could get at the back side, why not
=0A- nutplates?=0A=0AAgree - but that's the big IF - sometimes you just
don't have enough space or access to use nutplates.- (It's just another a
rrow in the "How am I gonna fix this GD thing" quiver.)-- -JL=0A=0A=0A
=
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: lm7321 substatute |
At 03:13 PM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
>
>
>The opamp should be rated at least 15v min.
Okay, this one should work
http://tinyurl.com/llsm37s
Let me know how this works for you . . . I'll
revise my document on the website. I could
also whack out a little ecb that would sit
between the solder-cups on a d-sub and make
it a whole lot easier to package . . .
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount |
horizontally? Now about Rivnuts
> I wasn't the original poster on this thread. I think it was
> >Sacha.
No need to apologize for "high jacking". I've gathered lots of food for thought
which I will now attempt to digest in order to design the battery and contactor
mount. Thank you all.
I wanted to use rivnuts because they would allow me to permanently fix the steel
plate and then bolt things onto it. The rivnuts I was going to use were steel
ones. Of course I wasn't aware of the issues with them coming loose.
I'm also having second thoughts about using a stainless steel base as I just weighed
it and it's 1kg which seems like overkill.
Sacha
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount |
horizontally? Now about Rivnuts
>
>
>I'm also having second thoughts about using a stainless steel base
>as I just weighed it and it's 1kg which seems like overkill.
The SVLA battery is essentially leak proof.
They cannot exude stuff that eats on your
airplane. A tray with 1/2" sides to capture
the battery's footprint is quite sufficient
for a base. A couple of nylon straps, 1" wide
with velcro closures are good for holding it
down in the tray.
You only need to grab the battery with enough
security to withstand a 10g load. For an 18 Ah
battery that's 200 pounds or less. A pair of
1" with velcro closures are good for MUCH more
than this.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount |
horizontally? Now about Rivnuts
If riveting a nut plate isn't possible, a Clickbond nutplate is next
best thing, unless you cannot get to backside at all.
On 4/30/2014 12:42 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 02:37 PM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
>> (Please pardon the hijacking of this thread...)
>>
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> I wasn't the original poster on this thread. I think it was Sacha.
>> However, speaking of Rivnuts...
>>
>> I've experienced some of the issues you are talking about. The last
>> few times I've used Rivnuts, I put an internal-tooth lockwasher on
>> the back side of the Rivnut before squeezing it, so that it gets
>> clamped between the work surface and the bulge formed by squeezing.
>
> Nice vaccination against spinning rivnut syndrome
> . . . but if you could get at the back side, why not
> nutplates?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Was Battery and master contactor - ok to mount |
horizontally? Now about Rivnuts
At 07:59 PM 4/30/2014, you wrote:
>
>If riveting a nut plate isn't possible, a Clickbond nutplate is next
>best thing, unless you cannot get to backside at all.
I would have suggested that . . . did an article in
Kitplanes a few months ago that spoke to DIY bond-studs.
All versions of this mounting mode disrupt the otherwise
smooth mounting surface under the contactor's mounting
feet.
Bob . . .
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