Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:19 AM - Alternator Field Wiring Approaches (Jeff Page)
2. 11:40 AM - Re: Alternator Field Wiring Approaches (Jeff Luckey)
3. 12:57 PM - 'Ford' Voltage regulator (Peter Pengilly)
4. 02:31 PM - Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator (Joe Dubner)
5. 02:53 PM - Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator (David Lloyd)
6. 03:03 PM - Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 03:16 PM - Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 03:17 PM - Re: Alternator Field Wiring Approaches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Alternator Field Wiring Approaches |
I just noticed an interesting wiring difference between Tony Bingelis'
diagram on page 212 of Firewall Forward and the typical AeroElectric
diagram. I bring this up as an interesting learning opportunity.
On Z13-8 the 5A field breaker is fed from the main power bus.
On Tony's diagram, it is fed from the 60A alternator breaker. Z13-8
has replaced this with an ANL current limiter, which is not pertinent
to this discussion. The Z13-8 current limiter is located at the
starter contactor, which avoids bringing the 4AWG wiring into the
cockpit, which is obviously preferable.
To me, the biggest consequence of the Z13-8 approach is that if the
ANL current limiter blows, the regulator (sensing the sagging bus
voltage) will attempt to drive the alternator to full output, which
would be a "bad thing", since the output is likely shorted to ground.
With Tony's approach, the voltage sensing path is unbroken when the
60A breaker pops.
I say "bad thing", since I expect Bob to remind us the damages in this
situation are inadequately qualified, probably not life-threatening,
and besides, the alternator is self-limited to its maximum rating,
which will probably clear the short.
With Tony's approach, there would be much less of the "bad thing" :-)
However, to gain the advantage of Tony's approach, some disadvantages
must be accepted.
Since we prefer the ANL current limiter be connected as shown at the
starter contactor, it would mean we would have to run the wire from
the 5A field breaker through the firewall.
This would further mean more connections and more wire in the voltage
sensing path, resulting is less accurate voltage regulation.
Since the "bad thing" is not life-threatening, and extremely unlikely,
it makes sense to me to use the Z13-8 approach, which provides shorter
and more reliable wiring and better voltage regulation.
I will be interested in others opinions of the two approaches.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Wiring Approaches |
where can we see a drawing of Tony's design?=0A=0AIt's tough to discuss w/o
seeing the diagram...=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From:
Jeff Page <jpx@qenesis.com>=0ATo: Aero_Electric_List <aeroelectric-list@ma
tronics.com> =0ASent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:17 AM=0ASubject: AeroElect
ric-List: Alternator Field Wiring Approaches=0A =0A=0A--> AeroElectric-List
message posted by: Jeff Page <jpx@qenesis.com>=0A=0AI just noticed an inte
resting wiring difference between Tony Bingelis'- =0Adiagram on page 212
of Firewall Forward and the typical AeroElectric- =0Adiagram.- I bring
this up as an interesting learning opportunity.=0A=0AOn Z13-8 the 5A field
breaker is fed from the main power bus.=0A=0AOn Tony's diagram, it is fed f
rom the 60A alternator breaker.- Z13-8- =0Ahas replaced this with an AN
L current limiter, which is not pertinent- =0Ato this discussion.- The
Z13-8 current limiter is located at the- =0Astarter contactor, which avoi
ds bringing the 4AWG wiring into the- =0Acockpit, which is obviously pref
erable.=0A=0ATo me, the biggest consequence of the Z13-8 approach is that i
f the- =0AANL current limiter blows, the regulator (sensing the sagging b
us- =0Avoltage) will attempt to drive the alternator to full output, whic
h- =0Awould be a "bad thing", since the output is likely shorted to groun
d.- =0AWith Tony's approach, the voltage sensing path is unbroken when th
e- =0A60A breaker pops.=0A=0AI say "bad thing", since I expect Bob to rem
ind us the damages in this- =0Asituation are inadequately qualified, prob
ably not life-threatening,- =0Aand besides, the alternator is self-limite
d to its maximum rating,- =0Awhich will probably clear the short.=0A=0AWi
th Tony's approach, there would be much less of the "bad thing" :-)=0A=0AHo
wever, to gain the advantage of Tony's approach, some disadvantages- =0Am
ust be accepted.=0A=0ASince we prefer the ANL current limiter be connected
as shown at the- =0Astarter contactor, it would mean we would have to run
the wire from- =0Athe 5A field breaker through the firewall.=0A=0AThis w
ould further mean more connections and more wire in the voltage- =0Asensi
ng path, resulting is less accurate voltage regulation.=0A=0ASince the "bad
thing" is not life-threatening, and extremely unlikely,- =0Ait makes sen
se to me to use the Z13-8 approach, which provides shorter- =0Aand more r
eliable wiring and better voltage regulation.=0A=0AI will be interested in
others opinions of the two approaches.=0A=0AJeff Page=0ADream Aircraft Tund
======================
Message 3
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Subject: | 'Ford' Voltage regulator |
Guys,
Does anyone have a part number for a generic 'Ford' voltage regulator?
I know they are readily available in the US, but in the UK the first
question is always,
"What car does it come from...?"
When you can't provide a model & year, or a part number most parts store
guys give up.
They must be available if only we could figure out what to ask for!
Thanks in advance.
Peter
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator |
Peter, I used a "VR166" voltage regulator with my 40A B&C alternator and bought
it from Amazon.com. Assuming this link is available in the UK, you can see it
here:
http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-VR166-Regulator/dp/B000C805SW
Best,
Joe
Independence, OR
Peter Pengilly wrote, On 5/14/2014 12:52:
> <peter@sportingaero.com>
>
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone have a part number for a generic 'Ford' voltage regulator?
> I know they are readily available in the US, but in the UK the first
> question is always,
> "What car does it come from...?"
> When you can't provide a model & year, or a part number most parts store
> guys give up.
> They must be available if only we could figure out what to ask for!
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Peter
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator |
Peter,
Are you looking for the old "mechanical" type or the newer solid state
model. . .??
If it is the newer integrated circuit type, here is my suggestion.
Take your old unit into a marine or truck type parts house. Show them the
unit ( remove any Cessna stickers off it ) and tell them that it is off a
boat. There is no parts references really for boats. A smart parts guy
will know the exact unit to pick. They usually also have a heavy duty unit.
I would op for that model as it will only be a few dollars more.
Last time I did this, it was a truck store. I started in with a mechanical
type reg. Asked for the newer style unit that was a direct plug
replacement. The parts guy knew what would work. He even offered to run
the new regulator on his shop equipment and check the control voltage.
Being a solid state unit, it is very easy to adjust this with the internal
pot.
David
_______________________________________________________________________-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Pengilly" <peter@sportingaero.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:52 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 'Ford' Voltage regulator
> <peter@sportingaero.com>
>
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone have a part number for a generic 'Ford' voltage regulator?
> I know they are readily available in the US, but in the UK the first
> question is always,
> "What car does it come from...?"
> When you can't provide a model & year, or a part number most parts store
> guys give up.
> They must be available if only we could figure out what to ask for!
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator |
At 02:52 PM 5/14/2014, you wrote:
><peter@sportingaero.com>
>
>Guys,
>
>Does anyone have a part number for a generic 'Ford' voltage regulator?
>I know they are readily available in the US, but in the UK the first
>question is always,
>"What car does it come from...?"
>When you can't provide a model & year, or a part number most parts
>store guys give up.
>They must be available if only we could figure out what to ask for!
Yup . . . airplane parts business suffers
from the same malady . . . no part number
no part . . . assuming it's even in the system.
That's one regulator that has a 99% chance
of being 'correct' by simply observing it's
shape. If it looks like this
Emacs!
It's going to work.
Here's an array of options from a local US
supplier. Used 1980 Ford Fairmont as baseline
but if you look at other models over 1975-1990
model years, you find a similar array.
http://tinyurl.com/m7ke8p2
other examples:
http://tinyurl.com/od994zl
http://tinyurl.com/l6qm8js
http://tinyurl.com/m83q5q8
http://tinyurl.com/lro7dlh
Poke around on the 'net long enough and you'll
find this part offered on a dozen or more part numbers.
You should be able to pick one up for about $20-30 . . .
perhaps less.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: 'Ford' Voltage regulator |
At 04:47 PM 5/14/2014, you wrote:
>
>Peter,
>
>Are you looking for the old "mechanical" type or the newer solid
>state model. . .??
>If it is the newer integrated circuit type, here is my suggestion.
>
>Take your old unit into a marine or truck type parts house. Show
>them the unit ( remove any Cessna stickers off it ) and tell them
>that it is off a boat. There is no parts references really for
>boats. A smart parts guy will know the exact unit to pick. They
>usually also have a heavy duty unit. I would op for that model as it
>will only be a few dollars more.
>
>Last time I did this, it was a truck store. I started in with a
>mechanical type reg. Asked for the newer style unit that was a
>direct plug replacement. The parts guy knew what would work. He
>even offered to run the new regulator on his shop equipment and
>check the control voltage. Being a solid state unit, it is very easy
>to adjust this with the internal pot.
Good data . . . with one caveat . . . not ALL
solid state replacements are not 'drop in'
replacements for the manner in which Cessna
used the "S" terminal and the o.v. module.
http://tinyurl.com/7g7mn6l
Tried the substitution on of our rental fleet
a/c at Benton and had an uncontrolled runaway
under some switch positions. Don't recall details
right now but do the substitution in a Cessna
with caution.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Wiring Approaches |
At 01:17 PM 5/14/2014, you wrote:
>
>I just noticed an interesting wiring difference between Tony Bingelis'
>diagram on page 212 of Firewall Forward and the typical AeroElectric
>diagram. I bring this up as an interesting learning opportunity.
Would you scan the page and post it. Schematics
are the ultimate communications tools in such
discussions . . .
Bob . . .
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