Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:09 AM - Equipping experimental for IFR (Owen Baker)
2. 06:12 AM - Re: Microphone Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:44 AM - Re: Equipping experimental for IFR (Owen Baker)
4. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Equipping experimental for IFR (Bill Bradburry)
5. 02:52 PM - Re: Equipping experimental for IFR (Owen Baker)
Message 1
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Subject: | Equipping experimental for IFR |
5/16/2014
Hello Curt, You wrote: =9C.... trying to learn.=9D
I really appreciate it when an EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft
builder or owner comes out with an attitude like that =93 way to
go!
Some time back I created the attached document to help answer questions
like yours. It has been published in Kitplanes magazine.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
=98OC=99 Baker
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to
gather and understand information."
==================
Time: 05:27:36 PM PST US
Subject: Avionics-List: Equipping experimental for IFR
From: "curts63" <curt.stein@verizon.net>
I"m new to owning a plane and trying to learn. I bought a used
experimental plane.
The panel includes an MGL Voyager EFIS, Backup airspeed, Backup
altimeter,
Garmin 430W, Garmin GTX-327, Garmin 240 audio panel, and a Navworx
ADS-B.
The Voyager has the horizon, slip skid ball, compass, altimeter,
airspeed, OAT,
clock, timer, oil temp, oil pressure, RPM, CDI, glideslope, autopilot,
and more.
My question is, what is the required equipment for IFR and what testing
has to
be done prior to filing and flying?
Any insight and guidance is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Curt
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Microphone Question |
At 05:11 PM 5/14/2014, you wrote:
Hi,
Found your page on the web -- very helpful, thanks.
I'm trying to find a way to use a Lectrosonics HM162MC Noise
Cancelling Microphone
(http://www.fullcompass.com/product/348924.html) in my Piper Dakota.
The mic comes with a 2.5mm 2 conductor plug.
I've looked everywhere for converters, but they do not exist. I'm
happy to make one myself. The question is the wiring:
Do I wire the tip from the 2 conductor 2.5mm plug to the ring of the
3 conductor .206" plug, and the sleeve of the 2.5mm to the sleeve of
the .206" plug? Do I leave the tip not connected (so that my PTT still works)?
Any recommendations on a source for .206" plugs? Will this work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILMORE-3-16-206-MIKE-MICROPHONE-PLUG-FOR-COLLINS-DRAKE-AVIATION-524WT-/150998288305
No. Aviation communications systems are unique
amongst the constellation of ways that people talk
to each other.
The first transmitters to go into airplanes used
the same kind of microphone as telephones. Carbon
granule. Simple, rugged, but needed to be POWERED
by a voltage applied to the microphone audio line
from within the transmitter.
To this day, aviation microphones still supply
power out to the mic . . . the transducer is no
longer filled with carbon granules but it IS
fitted with some form of active electronics
designed to amplify the microphone's inherently
tiny signal up to a level commensurate with the
legacy carbon mic output. On the order of 1 volt
peak to peak.
Here's an example of a modern non-carbon microphone
adapted to aviation service
http://tinyurl.com/qf2nqhl
Here's an in-depth explanation of the world
of aviation microphones
http://tinyurl.com/mffn8pm
The data sheet for your microphone says it's 'electret'
and speaks to requirements for a bias voltage. But
it doesn't give us output voltage and impedance
levels. It's sure to require more than a simple
wiring adapter . . . some electronics are needed
to let it masquerade as an 1950's carbon mic for aircraft.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Equipping experimental for IFR |
5/16/2014
Hello Curt, You wrote:
1) Does it have to be field tested/certified prior to IFR flight .....?
a) Lets take the certified part first. This extract:
Fly WAAS Approaches
GNS 430W comes with built-in WAAS navigation capabilities. It is approved to
fly LPV glideslope approaches without reference to ground-based navaids of
any kind. Featuring an advanced 15-channel receiver capable of five position
updates per second, GNS 430W meets the FAA's stringent TSO C146a standards
for WAAS "sole means" navigation providing vertical and lateral approach
guidance into thousands of U.S. airports previously inaccessible in IFR
conditions.
copied from a Garmin page shows that the 430W is fully compliant with TSO
C146a for sole means navigation including precision approaches. No further
certification in the field is needed.
b) Regarding field testing: There are no provisions in the federal
regulatory system for the FAA to field test the avionics installation in
your EAB aircraft. One may turn to an FAA approved MRO (Maintenance and
Repair Organization) for such field testing, but that organization is
obligated to comply with some regulatory provisions established for type
certificated aircraft which do not apply to your EAB. In the MRO's misguided
attempts to comply with type certificated aircraft criteria in regard to
your EAB you can wind up with a real (and expensive) mess on your hands.
So my recommendation is that you use an FAA approved MRO for the bench
testing and repair of your individual avionics components when required, but
do not attempt to have them field test any EAB entire avionics installation.
b) .... does it need to be certified on an ongoing interval,...
No regulatory recertification for the 430W is required, but there are the
issues of navigation data base and software updates:
a) Navigation Data Base Updates: This can be an ongoing chore / expense
depending upon how you approach it. The ultimate (and most expensive)
navigation data base update solution is to have a Jeppesen subscription that
provides one an appropriate geographic navigation data base update every 26
days that you must download with your computer onto the navigation data base
card for your 430W and then install in the unit. An alternative is to call
Jeppesen to order and install a one time navigation data base download when
you see the need.
b) Software Updates: If you poke around digitally inside your 430W you will
discover an amazingly large number of different software programs that
control the various aspects of that box. You can write down the identity,
including the version, of each of those software programs and carry it off
to a nearby qualified Garmin dealer / servicing facility. They can check
their Garmin files to see if there are any available updates to those
software programs. Those updates will fall into categories such as mandatory
(in Garmins opinion) or sort of nice to have. Use your judgment as to
whether you want to go to the effort / expense to have any software updates
done.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
'OC'
====================================================================================
From: Curt
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: Equipping experimental for IFR
Owen, Thank you for the equipment list, that helps with whats needed for
flight rules. The one outstanding question is with the Garmin 430W. Does
it have to be field tested/certified prior to IFR flight and does it need to
be certified on an ongoing interval, like the transponder?
Sincerely,
Curt Stein
====================================================
From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:08 AM
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Equipping experimental for IFR
5/16/2014
Hello Curt, You wrote: .... trying to learn.
I really appreciate it when an EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft
builder or owner comes out with an attitude like that way to go!
Some time back I created the attached document to help answer questions like
yours. It has been published in Kitplanes magazine.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
OC Baker
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather
and understand information."
====================================================================
Time: 05:27:36 PM PST US
Subject: Avionics-List: Equipping experimental for IFR
From: "curts63" <curt.stein@verizon.net>
I"m new to owning a plane and trying to learn. I bought a used experimental
plane.
The panel includes an MGL Voyager EFIS, Backup airspeed, Backup altimeter,
Garmin 430W, Garmin GTX-327, Garmin 240 audio panel, and a Navworx ADS-B.
The Voyager has the horizon, slip skid ball, compass, altimeter, airspeed,
OAT,
clock, timer, oil temp, oil pressure, RPM, CDI, glideslope, autopilot, and
more.
My question is, what is the required equipment for IFR and what testing has
to
be done prior to filing and flying?
Any insight and guidance is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Curt
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Equipping experimental for IFR |
OC,
Where do I find the procedures to "poke around digitally inside your 430W"?
I would like to check to see what software is loaded in my unit.
Thanks,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen
Baker
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:42 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Equipping experimental for IFR
5/16/2014
Hello Curt, You wrote:
1) "Does it have to be field tested/certified prior to IFR flight .....?"
a) Let's take the "certified" part first. This extract:
"Fly WAAS Approaches
GNS 430W comes with built-in WAAS navigation capabilities. It is approved to
fly LPV "glideslope" approaches without reference to ground-based navaids of
any kind. Featuring an advanced 15-channel receiver capable of five position
updates per second, GNS 430W meets the FAA's stringent TSO C146a standards
for WAAS "sole means" navigation - providing vertical and lateral approach
guidance into thousands of U.S. airports previously inaccessible in IFR
conditions."
copied from a Garmin page shows that the 430W is fully compliant with TSO
C146a for "sole means" navigation including precision approaches. No further
certification in the field is needed.
b) Regarding field testing: There are no provisions in the federal
regulatory system for the FAA to field test the avionics installation in
your EAB aircraft. One may turn to an FAA approved MRO (Maintenance and
Repair Organization) for such field testing, but that organization is
obligated to comply with some regulatory provisions established for type
certificated aircraft which do not apply to your EAB. In the MRO's misguided
attempts to comply with type certificated aircraft criteria in regard to
your EAB you can wind up with a real (and expensive) mess on your hands.
So my recommendation is that you use an FAA approved MRO for the bench
testing and repair of your individual avionics components when required, but
do not attempt to have them field test any EAB entire avionics installation.
b) ".... does it need to be certified on an ongoing interval,..."
No regulatory recertification for the 430W is required, but there are the
issues of navigation data base and software updates:
a) Navigation Data Base Updates: This can be an ongoing chore / expense
depending upon how you approach it. The ultimate (and most expensive)
navigation data base update solution is to have a Jeppesen subscription that
provides one an appropriate geographic navigation data base update every 26
days that you must download with your computer onto the navigation data base
card for your 430W and then install in the unit. An alternative is to call
Jeppesen to order and install a one time navigation data base download when
you see the need.
b) Software Updates: If you poke around digitally inside your 430W you will
discover an amazingly large number of different software programs that
control the various aspects of that box. You can write down the identity,
including the version, of each of those software programs and carry it off
to a nearby qualified Garmin dealer / servicing facility. They can check
their Garmin files to see if there are any available updates to those
software programs. Those updates will fall into categories such as mandatory
(in Garmin's opinion) or sort of nice to have. Use your judgment as to
whether you want to go to the effort / expense to have any software updates
done.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
'OC'
===========================================================================
========
From: Curt
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: Equipping experimental for IFR
Owen, Thank you for the equipment list, that helps with what's needed for
flight rules. The one outstanding question is with the Garmin 430W. Does
it have to be field tested/certified prior to IFR flight and does it need to
be certified on an ongoing interval, like the transponder?
Sincerely,
Curt Stein
====================================================
From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:08 AM
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Equipping experimental for IFR
5/16/2014
Hello Curt, You wrote: ".... trying to learn."
I really appreciate it when an EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft
builder or owner comes out with an attitude like that - way to go!
Some time back I created the attached document to help answer questions like
yours. It has been published in Kitplanes magazine.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
'OC' Baker
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather
and understand information."
====================================================================
Time: 05:27:36 PM PST US
Subject: Avionics-List: Equipping experimental for IFR
From: "curts63" <curt.stein@verizon.net>
I"m new to owning a plane and trying to learn. I bought a used experimental
plane.
The panel includes an MGL Voyager EFIS, Backup airspeed, Backup altimeter,
Garmin 430W, Garmin GTX-327, Garmin 240 audio panel, and a Navworx ADS-B.
The Voyager has the horizon, slip skid ball, compass, altimeter, airspeed,
OAT,
clock, timer, oil temp, oil pressure, RPM, CDI, glideslope, autopilot, and
more.
My question is, what is the required equipment for IFR and what testing has
to
be done prior to filing and flying?
Any insight and guidance is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Curt
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Equipping experimental for IFR |
5/16/2014
Hello Curt, You wrote:
1) "There are no mandatory tests like you would see in the VOR area where
you're required to check the accuracy?"
I am aware of no regulatory mandatory requirement to check the GPS accuracy
performance of a Garmin 430W prior to filing and flying IFR. You may wish to
check into the subject of RAIM (Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitoring).
2) "So in conclusion, the 430w does not need any kind of test prior to using
it in IFR conditions?"**
As you imply in 1 above, if you are using the VOR capability of the 430W for
IFR navigation then you must comply with 14 CFR 91.171.
3) "You don't need a signed flight manual supplement to go along with the
POH?"
Here you are treading into the area of trying to super impose regulatory
requirements established by the FAA for type certificated aircraft onto the
far thinner regulatory arena that EAB aircraft operate in. Where is the
regulation that requires a POH for an EAB aircraft? Where is the regulation
that says who is authorized to sign the flight manual supplement for an EAB
aircraft POH?##
4) "I really appreciate you taking the time to educate me."
It is my pleasure, sir.
5) "Thanks again for your assistance."
You are welcome any time.
'OC'
**PS: I would recommend extensive practice under VFR in VMC conditions with
your aircraft's avionics installation before venturing into IFR under IMC
conditions.
##PS: I am not saying that a good POH / supplement is not needed for safe
flight in EAB aircraft, just that the FAA does not mandate those items by
regulations and it is up to the builder / pilot of the EAB aircraft to
create what is needed for safe flight for him and his aircraft.
=======================================================
From: Curt
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: Equipping experimental for IFR
Owen,
So in conclusion, the 430w does not need any kind of test prior to using it
in IFR conditions? There are no mandatory tests like you would see in the
VOR area where you're required to check the accuracy? You don't need a
signed flight manual supplement to go along with the POH?
I do know about the monthly nav data updates from Jeppesen. I did purchase
the expensive annual update package for my intended area of flying.
Thanks again for your assistance. I really appreciate you taking the time
to educate me.
Curt
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