AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 05/21/14


Total Messages Posted: 5



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:21 AM - Re: Re: Schematic Z-17 questions (Michael Garmon)
     2. 02:10 PM - Need picture for product display at OSH2014 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 02:38 PM - Re: Schematic Z-17 questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 04:08 PM - Re: Need picture for product display at OSH2014 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 05:47 PM - Aerovoltz and Starter Draw (was Z-17 Schematic) (Matt Stecher)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:21:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Schematic Z-17 questions
    From: Michael Garmon <michaelagarmon@gmail.com>
    TWF0dCzCoApJIGFtIG5vdCBzdXJlIGlmIHlvdSBzaG91bGQgZHJpbGwgaG9sZXMgaW4gdGhlIFZh cmktRVogc3BhciwgwqBidXQgSSBrbm93IHRoYXQgdGhlIENvenkgc3BhciBzaG91bGQgbm90IGhh dmUgYW55IGhvbGVzLiBJIHBsYW4gb24gdXNpbmcgY2xpY2tib25kcyBvciBzb21ldGhpbmcgZXF1 aXZhbGVudCBpbnNpZGUgbXkgc3Bhci4gSSBwbGFuIG9uIHVzaW5nIHRoZW0gb24gdGhlIGZpcmV3 YWxsIHRvIG1pbmltaXplIHRoZSBob2xlcyBkcmlsbGVkIGluIHRoZSBmaXJld2FsbC7CoAoKTWlj aGFlbCBHYXJtb24gClNlbnQgZnJvbSBTYW1zdW5nIHRhYmxldAoKLS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwg bWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLQpGcm9tOiBNYXR0IFN0ZWNoZXIgPG1yY2MxMjM0QHNiY2dsb2JhbC5u ZXQ+IApEYXRlOiAwNS8yMC8yMDE0ICA5OjMzIFBNICAoR01ULTA2OjAwKSAKVG86IGFlcm9lbGVj dHJpYy1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gClN1YmplY3Q6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0OiBSZTog U2NoZW1hdGljIFotMTcgcXVlc3Rpb25zIAogCi0tPiBBZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdl IHBvc3RlZCBieTogIk1hdHQgU3RlY2hlciIgPG1yY2MxMjM0QHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ+CgpUaGFu a3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgcmVzcG9uc2VzIEJvYiwKCkkgaGF2ZSBwdXJjaGFzZWQgYW4gQWVyb3ZvbHRz IDEyIGNlbGwgbGl0aGl1bSBiYXR0ZXJ5IHRvIGdpdmUgYSB0cnkuIEl0IGlzCmJpbGxlZCBhcyB0 aGUgY2hvaWNlIGZvciBjcmFua2luZyBhbiBPLTIwMCBhbmQgaXMgNC40IngzLjQieDQiIGFuZCAy LjUgbGJzLgoKSSBhbSBzaG9vdGluZyBmb3IgYW4gYWZ0IGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbiBhbmQgYXMgeW91 IHNhaWQgdGhhdCB3aWxsIGxldCBtZSBrZWVwCm15IGhlYXZ5IHdpcmVzIHNob3J0LiBJIHdvdWxk IGxpa2UgdG8gcHV0IGl0IGluIHRoZSBtYWluIHNwYXIsIGJ1dCBub3Qgc3VyZQphYm91dCBkcmls bGluZyBob2xlcyBpbiBpdCB0byBydW4gdGhlIHdpcmVzIG91dCBvciBmb3IgbW91bnRpbmcgdGhl IGJhdHRlcnkuCklmIHRoYXQgZG9lcyBub3Qgd29yayBJIGFtIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgdGhlIGhlbGwg aG9sZSBhYm92ZSB0aGUgbGFuZGluZyBnZWFyCmF0dGFjaG1lbnQuCgpJZiB0aGUgYWZ0IGxvY2F0 aW9ucyBwcm92ZSBtb3JlIHRyb3VibGUgdGhhbiB0aGV5IGFyZSB3b3J0aCB0aGFuIEkgYW0KbG9v a2luZyBhdCB0aGUgdHJhZGl0aW9uYWwgYmF0dGVyeSBzcG90IGluIHRoZSBub3NlIGFuZCAyQVdH IHdpcmVzLiBJdCB3YXJtCm1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHRpbWUgaGVyZSBuZWFyIEhvdXN0b24sIGJ1dCB3 ZSBkbyBnZXQgYSB3ZWVrIG9yIHR3byB3b3J0aCBvZgphbG1vc3QgY29sZCB3ZWF0aGVyLgoKUmVn YXJkcywKTWF0dCBTdGVjaGVyCkthdHkgVFgKVmFyaWV6ZSBONTRFRyByZWJ1aWxkCgpUaW1lOiAx MTo0Nzo1MCBBTSBQU1QgVVMKRnJvbTogIlJvYmVydCBMLiBOdWNrb2xscywgSUlJIiA8bnVja29s bHMuYm9iQGFlcm9lbGVjdHJpYy5jb20+ClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBBZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMtTGlzdDog U2NoZW1hdGljIFotMTcgcXVlc3Rpb25zCgoKQXQgMDE6MjEgUE0gNS8xOC8yMDE0LCB5b3Ugd3Jv dGU6Cj48bXJjYzEyMzRAc2JjZ2xvYmFsLm5ldD4KPgo+SSBhbSByZXdpcmluZyBhIFZlcmlFemUg KHdpdGggTy0yMDBBKSBhbmQgcHV0dGluZyBpbiBhIG5ldyBwYW5lbC4KPgo+V2VpZ2h0IGlzIGFs d2F5cyBhIGZhY3RvciBhbmQgSSBhbSB0cnlpbmcgdG8ga2VlcCBpdCBsaWdodCwgYnV0IGFmdGVy IAo+ZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgd2l0aCB0aGUgZ2FuZywgSSBhbSBub3cgY29udmluY2VkIHRoYXQgYSBz dGFydGluZyBzeXN0ZW0gCj4odnMgcHJvcCBzdGFydCkgaXMgbmV4dCB0byBtYW5kYXRvcnkuCj4K PlNvIHRoZSBzaW1wbGVzdCBzeXN0ZW0gdGhhdCBtZWV0cyB0aGlzIG5lZWQgaXMgdGhlIFotMTcg ZGVzaWduLCBidXQgSSAKPndvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gdXNlIHRoZSBCJkMgMjAwRyAoMTJhbXApIGFs dGVybmF0b3IgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiB0aGUgU0Q4IAo+KG5vdGVkIGluIHRoZSBkaWFncmFtKS4KCsKg wqDCoCBUaGUgU0QtOCBhbmQgdGhlIDIwMEcgYXJlIGludGVyY2hhbmdlYWJsZSBzY2hlbWF0aWMK wqDCoMKgIHdpc2UuIEFyZSB5b3UgZ29pbmcgd2l0aCBsaWdodCB3ZWlnaHQgc3RhcnRlciB0b28/ CsKgwqDCoCBBcmUgeW91IHZmciBhbmQga2VlcGluZyBtYWduZXRvcz8gSWYgc28sIHlvdSBDT1VM RArCoMKgwqAgY29uc2lkZXIgYSByZWFsbHkgbGlnaHQgbGl0aGl1bSBiYXR0ZXJ5IG1vdW50ZWQK wqDCoMKgIGFmdCBzdWNoIHRoYXQgYWxsIHlvdXIgZmF0IHdpcmVzIGFyZSBzaG9ydC4KCj5JcyBp dCBhIGRyb3AgaW4gc3Vic3RpdHV0ZSB3aXRob3V0IG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgd2lyaW5n IGRpYWdyYW0/CgrCoMKgwqAgWWVzIC4gLiAuCgoKPkFuZCBpcyB0aGUgNEFXRyB3aXJpbmcgZm9y IHN0YXJ0aW5nIGFuZCBwcmltYXJ5IGdyb3VuZCB3aXJlcyBzdGlsbCAKPnN1ZmZpY2llbnQ/CgrC oMKgwqAgTWlnaHQgZXZlbiBkcm9wIHRvIDZBV0cgaWYgdGhlIGxlYWRzIHdlcmUgc2hvcnQgYXMK wqDCoMKgIGh5cG90aGVzaXplZCBhYm92ZSAuIC4gLgoKwqDCoMKgIEJ1dCBpZiB5b3VyIGJhdHRl cnkgaGFzIHRvIGdvIHVwIGZyb250LCB5b3UgY2FuIHByb2JhYmx5CsKgwqDCoCBnZXQgYnkgd2l0 aCA0QVdHIGluIHdhcm0gd2VhdGhlciBjb3VudHJ5IC4gLiAuIHdoaWNoCsKgwqDCoCBtYXkgYmUg YSBnaXZlbiB3aXRoIHRoZSBWZXJpRXplIC4gLiAuCgoKwqDCoCBCb2IgLiAuIC4KCgpfLT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpf LT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLSBUaGUgQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0g LQpfLT0gVXNlIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3MgTGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBOYXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3Nl Cl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9u LApfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEs Cl8tPSBQaG90b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6Cl8tPQpfLT3CoMKgIC0tPiBodHRw Oi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP0Flcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0Cl8tPQpfLT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PQpfLT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMg LQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVt cyEKXy09Cl8tPcKgwqAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQpfLT0KXy09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0K Xy09wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUg LQpfLT3CoCBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCEKXy09wqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAtTWF0dCBE cmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uCl8tPcKgwqAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9j b250cmlidXRpb24KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KCgoK


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:10:17 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Need picture for product display at OSH2014
    Still looking for a nose-on shot of a OBAM aircraft . . . probably tricycle gear . . . looking right down the center of spinner. Need to see it all out to wing tips. 1024 x 768 resolution or better would be nice too. Selected a/c will figure in table top display of the programmable wig-wag flasher we did here on the List as an open source project last year. It's going to be the first AeroElectric Connection product to be added to B&C's stable of offerings. Thanks! Bob . . .


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:38:28 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Schematic Z-17 questions
    At 06:06 PM 5/19/2014, you wrote: >Thanks Bob. Good info and I will watch for the Kitplanes articles. I >hear your concern about capacity and I was wondering about that. I >am thinking about an electrically dependent airplane with EFII but >also thinking about two alternators like your figure Z-13/8. Z-13/8 (or similar) is probably the-best- we-know-how-to-do for the down-sizing of battery capacity. I think I recall writing that mounting the SD-8 alternator on the vacated vacuum pump pad validates common practice in both the automotive and light aircraft worlds of flogging the battery until it simply won't crank the engine any more. When your airplane is fitted with THREE sources of energy of which only one is a battery, then you're firmer ground in spite of a flagging battery. By extension we can assert that once the battery is relieved of duties for flight in an endurance mode, then the battery can be (1) routinely flogged to death or (2) down-sized as long as it still cranks the engine. But we're still not very smart with respect to cost of ownership for these little power-houses. The satisfaction of having saved a few pounds may flag in the face of extra-ordinary maintenance to protect their easily insulted physics. In one of the Kitplanes articles I posed a question along the lines: "Okay you've shed 10 pounds of empty weight and freed up 30 cubic inches of volume. How will you used those newly acquired assets? Store sandwiches in the newly opened volume? Will a ten pound delta get you off fields you could not operate out of before . . . can you now climb over taller mountains?" Burt Rutan told us that it takes about 5 pounds of fuel to carry one pound of airplane around the world. So leaving 1 pound behind gave them either 6# lighter gross at t/o . . . or freed up nearly a gallon of gas for end of flight endurance . . . which in that airplane was about 100 miles! Those are the discussions and experiments we can be doing amongst members of the List . . . and Kitplanes offers us a forum to share our findings. Bob . . .


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:08:51 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Need picture for product display at OSH2014
    At 06:01 PM 5/21/2014, you wrote: >Not a very interesting background, but is this what you want? EXACTLY! Thanks. Bob . . .


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:47:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Aerovoltz and Starter Draw (was Z-17 Schematic)
    From: Matt Stecher <mrcc1234@sbcglobal.net>
    The Aerovoltz is in the mail as they say and I can report the details as soon as I get it. You probably spell out how to build the cap check curves in your book so I will look into that. Good to know that 4awg should be sufficient at least that saves a little weight. I was having trouble figuring out how much current to assume was being drawn during a cold start to base the wire size calc on. Thanks, Matt > At 09:33 PM 5/20/2014, you wrote: >> <mrcc1234@sbcglobal.net> >> >> Thanks for your responses Bob, >> >> I have purchased an Aerovolts 12 cell lithium battery to give a try. It is >> billed as the choice for cranking an O-200 and is 4.4"x3.4"x4" and 2.5 lbs. > > Hmmmm . . . I'd sure like to do a family of > cap check curves on it . . . > > I've looked over their website. They seem to offer > a 'special charger' for 'improved life' but also > says 'no special charger necessary'. > > Did any paperwork come with the battery that > cautions about deep discharge and/or making sure > the bus voltage is not too high? > > >> I am shooting for an aft installation and as you said that will let me keep >> my heavy wires short. I would like to put it in the main spar, but not sure >> about drilling holes in it to run the wires out or for mounting the battery. >> If that does not work I am looking at the hell hole above the landing gear >> attachment. >> >> If the aft locations prove more trouble than they are worth than I am >> looking at the traditional battery spot in the nose and 2AWG wires. It warm >> most of the time here near Houston, but we do get a week or two worth of >> almost cold weather. > > 4AWG is about 300 micro-ohms per foot WARM (160F > from cranking). Assuming 24' round trip, a 200A > cranking current will toss off 1.44 volts in the > wire. 2AWG is 200 micro-ohms per foot and wouldn't > warm up as much . . . so figure about 0.9 volts > in wire drop for a net savings of about 0.5 volts > out of a total of 9-10 volts at the starter motor > terminals. 4AWG would probably be fine. > > > Bob . . . >




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --