Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - non-PC680 battery experience (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
2. 06:23 AM - Re: non-PC680 battery experience (H. Marvin Haught)
3. 08:21 AM - Re: non-PC680 battery experience (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:57 AM - Re: non-PC680 battery experience (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 01:28 PM - Wire tag ID needed (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | non-PC680 battery experience |
At original build, I also was looking at less-expensive alternatives to
the PC680, especially since I have an electrically dependent Corvair
engine and am using the 2-battery+PM alternator approach espoused by
Bob, where I change the primary (starting) battery every year and keep
last year=92s starting battery as the #2. So I purchased two fresh
Universal Power UB12220 batteries from a local distributor.
After about 7 months, I began having trouble with the primary battery
cranking the very light, very easy to crank 190 c.i. engine. It got
worse quickly and by the 8th month, I had replaced it with a PC680. At
the annual, I moved that one to the #2 and put another PC680 in the #1
slot. No troubles since.
I noted, in post-change research, that the specs for the UB12220 list
the charging temp range as 0=B0-40=B0C and the discharging range as
-15=B0-45=B0C. The storage limits are -15=B0-40=B0C. I operate out of
Mesa, AZ
and my son lives in Avon, CO, so I can guarantee that I exceeded those
limits on both ends, but probably the worst effect was on the high end.
With the #2 battery on the firewall, I bet it regularly sees 65=B0+,
even
in its insulated bracket. Heck, even for the #1 under the copilot=92s
seat, we have ramp and hangar temps over 50=B0C for a good portion of
the
summer.
So my purely anecdotally-based advice is to stick with batteries
designed for motor vehicle use, especially if you have an electrically
dependent airplane. If it=92ll survive on a Harley, it=92ll survive on
your
plane. The $80/year cost delta is pretty insignificant when you compare
it to everything else. FWIW,
Andy
------------------------
Andy Elliott, CL:480-695-9568
N601GE/Z601XLb/TD/Corvair
601 hrs since 11/08
<http://servi-aero.com/n601ge/4sale/> Web Site Link
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: non-PC680 battery experience |
Another anecdote as to "RV" type batteries: When I first bought my
Pacer 22 years ago, the aircraft batteries I was using would only last a
year. Plus, outgassing from the battery was eating up my battery box
every 3 or 5 months. A good friend of mine advised me to buy a good,
five year RV battery - almost exactly the same size as the aircraft
battery I had been using, but with better cranking power....he had
several airplanes and was using them in all of them. Now, I know this
wasn't a "legal" installation, but I was sick of battery problems. That
first RV battery lasted 6 years, was still cranking the airplane when I
took it out, and lasted another couple of years in my lawnmower. In 20
years, I bought four batteries at around $55 to $60, all sealed type
batteries. Except for one battery that was allowed to sit to long in a
discharged state, none failed, but were replaced because of age. Using
those batteries put an end to the outgassing and corrosion in the
battery box, gave me reliable cranking power, and when camping, I ran my
CPAP machine off of the battery. The battery still had enough power to
crank the engine the next day. For their size, they are heavy, but have
been the best solution for my use. When I sold my Pacer, the new owner
installed one of the new lightweight batteries before we flew to Alaska.
It worked fine in warm weather, but would not stand up to the cold when
winter came. My new project is underway and is an experimental. I will
again be using an RV battery, as they have been the best spark for my
buck to this point. I will likely install two batteries in the project,
which will be a back country airplane....both under the front seat right
on the CG, as I will be using the aux battery to power my CPAP machine.
M. Haught
On May 23, 2014, at 7:35 AM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote:
> At original build, I also was looking at less-expensive alternatives
to the PC680, especially since I have an electrically dependent Corvair
engine and am using the 2-battery+PM alternator approach espoused by
Bob, where I change the primary (starting) battery every year and keep
last year=92s starting battery as the #2. So I purchased two fresh
Universal Power UB12220 batteries from a local distributor.
> After about 7 months, I began having trouble with the primary
battery cranking the very light, very easy to crank 190 c.i. engine. It
got worse quickly and by the 8th month, I had replaced it with a PC680.
At the annual, I moved that one to the #2 and put another PC680 in the
#1 slot. No troubles since.
> I noted, in post-change research, that the specs for the UB12220
list the charging temp range as 0=B0-40=B0C and the discharging range as
-15=B0-45=B0C. The storage limits are -15=B0-40=B0C. I operate out of
Mesa, AZ and my son lives in Avon, CO, so I can guarantee that I
exceeded those limits on both ends, but probably the worst effect was on
the high end. With the #2 battery on the firewall, I bet it regularly
sees 65=B0+, even in its insulated bracket. Heck, even for the #1 under
the copilot=92s seat, we have ramp and hangar temps over 50=B0C for a
good portion of the summer.
> So my purely anecdotally-based advice is to stick with batteries
designed for motor vehicle use, especially if you have an electrically
dependent airplane. If it=92ll survive on a Harley, it=92ll survive on
your plane. The $80/year cost delta is pretty insignificant when you
compare it to everything else. FWIW,
> Andy
> ------------------------
> Andy Elliott, CL:480-695-9568
> N601GE/Z601XLb/TD/Corvair
> 601 hrs since 11/08
> Web Site Link
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: non-PC680 battery experience |
>
> So my purely anecdotally-based advice is to stick with batteries
> designed for motor vehicle use, especially if you have an
> electrically dependent airplane. If it'll survive on a Harley,
> it'll survive on your plane. The $80/year cost delta is pretty
> insignificant when you compare it to everything else. FWIW,
Thanks Andy . . . good information.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: non-PC680 battery experience |
> I will again be using an RV battery, as they have been the best
> spark for my buck to this point. I will likely install two
> batteries in the project, which will be a back country
> airplane....both under the front seat right on the CG, as I will be
> using the aux battery to power my CPAP machine.
>
>M. Haught
When you say "RV" battery, I presume you're making
reference to batteries tailored to deep cycle service
in recreational vehicles . . . and yes, in the modern
sealed, recombinant gas architecture, they should
be very long lived in a light duty-cycle service
like a light airplane.
The elegant solution for batteries in airplanes
is the product of a talented hat-dance around the
features that drive weight, capacity and load-dumping
ability. Ask Skip Koss about the music to which
Concorde dances in the evolution of their products
for aircraft.
Earlier this week I mentioned an "RV" battery I
was testing . . . a battery supposedly fitted with
a leading edge technology that would reduce weight
while at least not degrading capacity per unit
volume and internal impedance . . . like grunting
an over the road diesel engine to life.
The thing I tested is an okay battery for capacity.
100 amp-hours plus at 20 hour rate, probably 75 amp-
hours at a 1 hour rate. But it's ability to crank
engines is problematic. In fact, a 24 volt incarnation
of this product wouldn't get the typical piston engine
airplane started.
Now, it may well be a great RV battery in terms
of service life . . . I'm not going to test
for that. But your narrative underscores the uncertainty
one experiences when staring at one of these things
attempting to answer the question: "Should I use
this in my airplane?"
Emacs!
'
Bottom line is that I don't have a clue . . . just as
that Firefly battery came in a nice, colorful plastic
case and proved that it would run my ham-rig for
perhaps months on one charge, there was no way to know
its true suitability to task without (1) testing and/
or (2) real-life feedback.
Few manufacturers offer the hard-data offered by
our legacy suppliers of known performance like
Hawker-Enersys and Concorde. That doesn't mean
one should avoid alternatives but do conduct
the experiments at minimum risk.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Wire tag ID needed |
Anyone know a source for these? Looks like the fastest way to label wires 'o
n the fly'. It's on a wire for a Garmin 327 xponder I bought used.
Thanks,
Charlie
Sent from my iPhone
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