AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 06/24/14


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:44 AM - Re: Z-14 Schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 12:46 PM - Brownout battery charging? (donjohnston)
     3. 04:29 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (Bob-tcw)
     4. 05:08 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (Tim Andres)
     5. 05:47 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (Bob-tcw)
     6. 05:51 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 05:57 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 06:04 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 06:18 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (donjohnston)
    10. 06:20 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (Tim Andres)
    11. 06:35 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (donjohnston)
    12. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Brownout battery charging? (Bob-tcw)
    13. 07:36 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (donjohnston)
    14. 07:37 PM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (donjohnston)
    15. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Brownout battery charging? (Tim Andres)
    16. 10:51 PM - How is it I get a shock from an iPod? (Dave Saylor)
    17. 11:48 PM - Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? (Etienne Phillips)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:44:09 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z-14 Schematic
    At 11:34 PM 6/23/2014, you wrote: I am using your Schematic Z-14 as my guide for the power circuits in my Seawind project. There are some wire size callouts that confuse me. You show 4awg thru the starter circuit up to the starter contactor, for both main and aux. batteries, but 2awg from there to the starter. You also show 2awg for the link between cross-feed contactor and main battery contactor. Seems like the same current should demand the same wire throughout. The Z-figures are ARCHITCTURE drawings, not wiring diagrams. EVERY wire used in the final configuration should be evaluated for suitability to task which includes consideration mostly for voltage drop. 2AWG (or larger) is probably necessary for voltage drop considerations on your long leads. But 4AWG can be used for short run jumpers and especially to battery terminal posts. Batteries have to be in the nose for weight & balance & because there's no other suitable space. It's 25ft from batteries to starter. Seawind specified 2awg. I bumped it up to 1awg welding cable, cause I get more copper for the buck, and want all the starter power available. (No way in hell it can be hand propped.) In other words, if 4AWG will work for the same engine and battery combo in an RV, then the wire isn't in trouble for overheating in a seaplane . . . the long wire runs dictate more copper to keep the cranking performance up. There is no usable firewall space, so the contactors are up front with the batteries. Not sure what you mean here. Battery contactors mount as close as practical to batteries, starter contactor as close as practical to starter. Regulators go there too-only one field wire each need go back. Why is 4awg called out for main alt. "B" to starter contactor? If run to a 50A breaker in the panel Please no b-lead breakers on panel . . . use current limiter or fat-fuse at the contacotrs). Size the wire as your voltage drops dictate. Z-14 in a seaplane brings b-leads up front on long wires. Starter contactor should be close to starter and main alternator b-lead tied into system AT the hot side of the contactor . . . use that starter current fat-wire to service the alternator too., 6awg should be enough? (Regulator reads voltage at the other end?) . . . long wire, legacy practices call for limiting voltage drop to a few percent at full alternator load. What does * = 6 inches or less mean? Means the two devices should be as close to each other as practical. What is "Note 10"--I couldn't find it in your book. Not sure . . . may be an editing error. Why a 30A fuse shown for both alternators? Aux is shown 20A, and Main is shown 40A (Mine is 60A). B & C supplied 2 5A field breakers & one 50A. from the B.O.M on their version of Z-14. This is not a wiring diagram . . . adjust sizes according to your particular constellation of accessories. Should have been one 15A breaker for the Aux. Alt.(Maybe I've misplaced it.) Use fuses on b-leads OFF the panel. Field supply breakers should be 5A Thanks again for showing me where to get P-Lead Ferrule Kits and shielded wire at reasonable cost. I could use some suggestions on the most "sanitary" way to tap into the shielded p-lead wires to get signals to the E.I.S. I am using the Grand Rapids Technology E.I.S. & E.F.I.S. package. The E.I.S.is mounted in the tailcone beneath the engine nacelle. Of 50 pins, 3 do nothing, 3 go to the front and the balance do various engine monitoring chores. One wire carries serial data about everything to the E.F.I.S displays 20ft. to the front. Better to run 3 long wires than 47! Put a terminal block next to GRT databox to 'break out' p-lead signals. After power, the "fun" really starts. Two E.F.I.S. panels, Audio panel, 1 A.H.R.S, 1 ADS-B, Remote Magnetometer, flap and trim indicators, autopilot servos,Garmin 650. Remote G.P.S. antenna, Remote Transponder, Strobes, Ldg. Lights, Nav Lights, Pitot Heat, Dual nav and com antennae, marker beacon antenna, tip float camera, analog to digital camera adapter, video selector switch, maybe fish finder and add'tl camera, 4 fuel pumps,ldg. gear switches and last but not least, DVD player for the copilot to watch dirty movies in the right E.F.I.S. on the way to Air Venture. Would covering the welding cable with oil line fire sleeve satisfy a D.A.R.? (Exhaust will be 6 in. away.) Yes . . . Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:46:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Brownout battery charging?
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    Because my last question was incredibly educational, I thought that I would try another. :D I'm thinking that I would like to have a brownout battery to keep the EFIS up during engine start. I thought about using a "deslumpifier" but figured that a brownout battery would have the added bonus of keeping the EFIS up during a... main battery failure, contactor failure, etc. (those not being the primary reason though). My primary challenge is that I've got a 24v (or 28v if that's how you want to call it) electrical system and every auxiliary or backup battery that I've seen is 12v. But I found these: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/xt.html or these: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/gr12vo45amph.html Which would be wired in series. I'm using a VPX-Pro and they support a backup battery and attached is the approach I was thinking of taking. The EFIS has multiple, diode protected power inputs so I would simply run one of the alternate power inputs to the backup battery. Here's the question: Will they charge when wired as described? These batteries are lead acid batteries so given my limited knowledge of battery technology, it seems to me that it should work. I contacted the vendor and they would not comment beyond using the correct wall charger for these batteries. Attempting to charge them any other way will result in reversing the rotation of the planet and killing all life. So given that, I'm not sure if this is the right battery. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425383#425383 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_160.jpg


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:29:39 PM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    I know many on this list are about rolling their own designs and I'm all for that, however, if you want an engineered solution to this problem we have it available. Our series of IPS products, (intelligent power stabilizer) provides the exact function of preventing critical equipment from rebooting during engine starting. Our products our purpose built DC:DC converters that run from very low voltages and provide a stabilized output to the connected load. We have both 12 volt and 24 volt models in stock. All the details are at: www.tcwtech.com just click on the pictures of IPS products. In my RV-10 I use our IPS-12v-4a unit to protect my Garmin GNS430. It provides stable 12 volt power to the GNS system with battery voltages as low as 4 volts. Bob Newman N541RV -----Original Message----- From: donjohnston Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 3:43 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Brownout battery charging? Because my last question was incredibly educational, I thought that I would try another. :D I'm thinking that I would like to have a brownout battery to keep the EFIS up during engine start. I thought about using a "deslumpifier" but figured that a brownout battery would have the added bonus of keeping the EFIS up during a... main battery failure, contactor failure, etc. (those not being the primary reason though). My primary challenge is that I've got a 24v (or 28v if that's how you want to call it) electrical system and every auxiliary or backup battery that I've seen is 12v. But I found these: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/xt.html or these: http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/gr12vo45amph.html Which would be wired in series. I'm using a VPX-Pro and they support a backup battery and attached is the approach I was thinking of taking. The EFIS has multiple, diode protected power inputs so I would simply run one of the alternate power inputs to the backup battery. Here's the question: Will they charge when wired as described? These batteries are lead acid batteries so given my limited knowledge of battery technology, it seems to me that it should work. I contacted the vendor and they would not comment beyond using the correct wall charger for these batteries. Attempting to charge them any other way will result in reversing the rotation of the planet and killing all life. So given that, I'm not sure if this is the right battery. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425383#425383 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_160.jpg


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:08:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Bob, do you happen to be familiar with the GTN 650 power input scheme? I used the diode isolated power pins on a 430 install (NAV & Comm) to provide power from two different busses, now I'm helping a friend with his 650 install and he wanted to do the same. Were told the multiple input pins on the 650 are not diode isolated. I'm surprised by this, any thoughts why they did this? Thanks, Tim > On Jun 24, 2014, at 4:28 PM, "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote: > > > I know many on this list are about rolling their own designs and I'm all for that, however, if you want an engineered solution to this problem we have it available. Our series of IPS products, (intelligent power stabilizer) provides the exact function of preventing critical equipment from rebooting during engine starting. Our products our purpose built DC:DC converters that run from very low voltages and provide a stabilized output to the connected load. We have both 12 volt and 24 volt models in stock. > > All the details are at: www.tcwtech.com just click on the pictures of IPS products. > > In my RV-10 I use our IPS-12v-4a unit to protect my Garmin GNS430. It provides stable 12 volt power to the GNS system with battery voltages as low as 4 volts. > > Bob Newman > N541RV > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: donjohnston > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 3:43 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Brownout battery charging? > > > Because my last question was incredibly educational, I thought that I would try another. :D > > I'm thinking that I would like to have a brownout battery to keep the EFIS up during engine start. I thought about using a "deslumpifier" but figured that a brownout battery would have the added bonus of keeping the EFIS up during a... main battery failure, contactor failure, etc. (those not being the primary reason though). > > My primary challenge is that I've got a 24v (or 28v if that's how you want to call it) electrical system and every auxiliary or backup battery that I've seen is 12v. But I found these: > > > http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/xt.html > > or these: > > http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/gr12vo45amph.html > > Which would be wired in series. > > I'm using a VPX-Pro and they support a backup battery and attached is the approach I was thinking of taking. The EFIS has multiple, diode protected power inputs so I would simply run one of the alternate power inputs to the backup battery. > > Here's the question: Will they charge when wired as described? These batteries are lead acid batteries so given my limited knowledge of battery technology, it seems to me that it should work. I contacted the vendor and they would not comment beyond using the correct wall charger for these batteries. Attempting to charge them any other way will result in reversing the rotation of the planet and killing all life. > > So given that, I'm not sure if this is the right battery. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425383#425383 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_160.jpg > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:47:21 PM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    Yes, I'm totally aware of this (blunder!) I've talked to my friends at Garmin, as we have designed many of our products with their gear in mind and know them quite well, and they were surprised by the removal of such a useful feature. They really did not have a good reason for this change, only some mild stumbling about how the GTN is probably already on an essential bus of some sort. It was pretty lame. Anyway, there you have it, they removed a perfectly good feature!. BTW, we do have an application drawing for utilizing our IBBS back-up product line with GTN navigators. Our IBBS products have the diode isolation built-in. Bob Newman TCW Technologies, N541RV -----Original Message----- From: Tim Andres Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:07 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Brownout battery charging? Bob, do you happen to be familiar with the GTN 650 power input scheme? I used the diode isolated power pins on a 430 install (NAV & Comm) to provide power from two different busses, now I'm helping a friend with his 650 install and he wanted to do the same. Were told the multiple input pins on the 650 are not diode isolated. I'm surprised by this, any thoughts why they did this? Thanks, Tim > On Jun 24, 2014, at 4:28 PM, "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com> wrote: > > > I know many on this list are about rolling their own designs and I'm all > for that, however, if you want an engineered solution to this problem we > have it available. Our series of IPS products, (intelligent power > stabilizer) provides the exact function of preventing critical equipment > from rebooting during engine starting. Our products our purpose built > DC:DC converters that run from very low voltages and provide a stabilized > output to the connected load. We have both 12 volt and 24 volt models in > stock. > > All the details are at: www.tcwtech.com just click on the pictures of > IPS products. > > In my RV-10 I use our IPS-12v-4a unit to protect my Garmin GNS430. It > provides stable 12 volt power to the GNS system with battery voltages as > low as 4 volts. > > Bob Newman > N541RV > > > -----Original Message----- From: donjohnston > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 3:43 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Brownout battery charging? > > <don@velocity-xl.com> > > Because my last question was incredibly educational, I thought that I > would try another. :D > > I'm thinking that I would like to have a brownout battery to keep the EFIS > up during engine start. I thought about using a "deslumpifier" but > figured that a brownout battery would have the added bonus of keeping the > EFIS up during a... main battery failure, contactor failure, etc. (those > not being the primary reason though). > > My primary challenge is that I've got a 24v (or 28v if that's how you want > to call it) electrical system and every auxiliary or backup battery that > I've seen is 12v. But I found these: > > > http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/xt.html > > or these: > > http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/gr12vo45amph.html > > Which would be wired in series. > > I'm using a VPX-Pro and they support a backup battery and attached is the > approach I was thinking of taking. The EFIS has multiple, diode protected > power inputs so I would simply run one of the alternate power inputs to > the backup battery. > > Here's the question: Will they charge when wired as described? These > batteries are lead acid batteries so given my limited knowledge of battery > technology, it seems to me that it should work. I contacted the vendor > and they would not comment beyond using the correct wall charger for these > batteries. Attempting to charge them any other way will result in > reversing the rotation of the planet and killing all life. > > So given that, I'm not sure if this is the right battery. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425383#425383 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/backup_battery_160.jpg > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:51:22 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    At 07:07 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote: > >Bob, do you happen to be familiar with the GTN 650 power input >scheme? I used the diode isolated power pins on a 430 install (NAV & >Comm) to provide power from two different busses, now I'm helping a >friend with his 650 install and he wanted to do the same. Were told >the multiple input pins on the 650 are not diode isolated. I'm >surprised by this, any thoughts why they did this? Looking through the GTN650 manual at http://tinyurl.com/lc6v4th I find no references to diode isolation within the GTN640 between nav and comm radio power. This is consistent with other Garmin installations I've had any contact with. One input is for comm, the other for nav and they are independent of each other. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:57:11 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Brownout battery charging? At 07:07 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote: Bob, do you happen to be familiar with the GTN 650 power input scheme? I used the diode isolated power pins on a 430 install (NAV & Comm) to provide power from two different busses, now I'm helping a friend with his 650 install and he wanted to do the same. Were told the multiple input pins on the 650 are not diode isolated. I'm surprised by this, any thoughts why they did this? Looking through the GTN650 manual at http://tinyurl.com/lc6v4th I find no references to diode isolation within the GTN640 between nav and comm radio power. This is consistent with other Garmin installations I've had any contact with. One input is for comm, the other for nav and they are independent of each other. Just checked the manual for the 430 at http://tinyurl.com/kwvhtxh and found the same thing . . . Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:04:06 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    At 02:43 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote: > >Because my last question was incredibly educational, I thought that >I would try another. :D > >I'm thinking that I would like to have a brownout battery to keep >the EFIS up during engine start. I thought about using a >"deslumpifier" but figured that a brownout battery would have the >added bonus of keeping the EFIS up during a... main battery failure, >contactor failure, etc. (those not being the primary reason though). What's your anticipated architecture? Under what conditions do you anticipate a battery failure? >My primary challenge is that I've got a 24v (or 28v if that's how >you want to call it) electrical system and every auxiliary or backup >battery that I've seen is 12v. But I found these: Yeah, you'll have to roll your own and you're going to be loathe to install anything with robustness . . . meaning small . . . meaning not particularly long-lived when connected across a DC bus system. The deslumpifier is by far the more elegant solution . . . with a Z-13/8 or similar architecture and rudimentary preventative maintenance, there's just no compelling driver for bolting more boxes full of lead to your airplane . . . even itty-bitty ones. Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:18:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: > I know many on this list are about rolling their own designs and I'm all for > that, however, if you want an engineered solution to this problem we have > it available. Our series of IPS products, (intelligent power > stabilizer) provides the exact function of preventing critical equipment > from rebooting during engine starting. Our products our purpose built > DC:DC converters that run from very low voltages and provide a stabilized > output to the connected load. We have both 12 volt and 24 volt models in > stock. I had asked about 24v versions of your product not too long ago (I think the last time was last year at OSH) and was told you didn't have a 24v version. I looked on your website and couldn't find any mention either. Can you provide a link to your 24v IPS product? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425410#425410


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:20:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    I don't believe it spells this out in the 430 manual (BobK), but the pins are diode isolated internally, multi pins on both comm and NAV sections. So just like GRT equipment it would power from the pin with the highest voltage present. Normally the pins are just tied together, but the option is there if you have a dual bus aircraft. Evidently they decided not to do this on the 650. Tim > On Jun 24, 2014, at 5:55 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Brownout battery charging? > > > At 07:07 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote: > > > Bob, do you happen to be familiar with the GTN 650 power input scheme? I used the diode isolated power pins on a 430 install (NAV & Comm) to provide power from two different busses, now I'm helping a friend with his 650 install and he wanted to do the same. Were told the multiple input pins on the 650 are not diode isolated. I'm surprised by this, any thoughts why they did this? > > Looking through the GTN650 manual at > http://tinyurl.com/lc6v4th > I find no references to diode isolation > within the GTN640 between nav and comm > radio power. This is consistent with > other Garmin installations I've had > any contact with. One input is for comm, > the other for nav and they are independent > of each other. > > Just checked the manual for the 430 at > http://tinyurl.com/kwvhtxh > and found the same thing . . . > > > Bob . . . > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:35:39 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > > What's your anticipated architecture? Not sure what you're looking for. Like I said, I'm running a VPX-Pro, 24v electrical system. I don't know how much more you need beyond the diagram I posted. Let me know, and I'll provide it. > Under what conditions do you anticipate a battery failure? I don't anticipate a battery failure. My primary reason is to keep the EFIS during engine start. An added benefit is being able to power the EFIS in the event of a battery or contactor failure. The latter is just an added benefit. Not a primary reason. > > Yeah, you'll have to roll your own and you're going to be loathe to install anything with robustness . . . meaning small . . . meaning not particularly long-lived when connected across a DC bus system. Well, I was looking at 3-5ah (the EFIS and AHRS draw about 2a). So I certainly wasn't looking for cross-country endurance. > The deslumpifier is by far the more elegant solution . . . with a Z-13/8 or similar architecture and rudimentary preventative maintenance, there's just no compelling driver for bolting more boxes full of lead to your airplane . . . even itty-bitty ones. Eric Jones provided me with a schematic for his DeSlumpifier a while back. But after thinking about the time to make the changes for a 24v system and build it, I thought that a backup battery option may be quicker and easier. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425412#425412


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:58:46 PM PST US
    From: "Bob-tcw" <rnewman@tcwtech.com>
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    The 24 volt version of the IPS system is at: http://tcwtech.com/intelligent_power_stabilize_24v.htm Bob Newman -----Original Message----- From: donjohnston Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Brownout battery charging? rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: > I know many on this list are about rolling their own designs and I'm all > for > that, however, if you want an engineered solution to this problem we > have > it available. Our series of IPS products, (intelligent power > stabilizer) provides the exact function of preventing critical equipment > from rebooting during engine starting. Our products our purpose built > DC:DC converters that run from very low voltages and provide a stabilized > output to the connected load. We have both 12 volt and 24 volt models in > stock. I had asked about 24v versions of your product not too long ago (I think the last time was last year at OSH) and was told you didn't have a 24v version. I looked on your website and couldn't find any mention either. Can you provide a link to your 24v IPS product? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425410#425410


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:36:45 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: > The 24 volt version of the IPS system is at: > http://tcwtech.com/intelligent_power_stabilize_24v.htm > > Bob Newman > -- Ahhh. I think I see the confusion. This is basically a DeSlumpifier, right? I was thinking battery. This is definitely an option. I'm at the point where I'm trying to avoid major detours. And building a DeSlumpifier from scratch could become a black hole of time. Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425420#425420


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:37:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    rnewman(at)tcwtech.com wrote: > The 24 volt version of the IPS system is at: > http://tcwtech.com/intelligent_power_stabilize_24v.htm > > Bob Newman > -- Ahhh. I think I see the confusion. This is basically a DeSlumpifier, right? I was thinking battery. This is definitely an option. I'm at the point where I'm trying to avoid major detours. And building a DeSlumpifier from scratch could become a black hole of time. Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425421#425421


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:43:56 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brownout battery charging?
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    If it's just brownout, and you have a 28V system...I'm guessing the EFIS will run on 12-28 volts, so I doubt you'll sag under 12 volts when cranking. Be fine won't it? Tim > On Jun 24, 2014, at 6:34 PM, "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote: > > > > nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: >> >> What's your anticipated architecture? > > Not sure what you're looking for. Like I said, I'm running a VPX-Pro, 24v electrical system. I don't know how much more you need beyond the diagram I posted. Let me know, and I'll provide it. > >> Under what conditions do you anticipate a battery failure? > > I don't anticipate a battery failure. My primary reason is to keep the EFIS during engine start. An added benefit is being able to power the EFIS in the event of a battery or contactor failure. The latter is just an added benefit. Not a primary reason. > > >> >> Yeah, you'll have to roll your own and you're going to be loathe to install anything with robustness . . . meaning small . . . meaning not particularly long-lived when connected across a DC bus system. > > Well, I was looking at 3-5ah (the EFIS and AHRS draw about 2a). So I certainly wasn't looking for cross-country endurance. > > >> The deslumpifier is by far the more elegant solution . . . with a Z-13/8 or similar architecture and rudimentary preventative maintenance, there's just no compelling driver for bolting more boxes full of lead to your airplane . . . even itty-bitty ones. > > Eric Jones provided me with a schematic for his DeSlumpifier a while back. But after thinking about the time to make the changes for a 24v system and build it, I thought that a backup battery option may be quicker and easier. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425412#425412 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:51:06 PM PST US
    From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
    Subject: How is it I get a shock from an iPod?
    Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with an iPod, I guess. Background: My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's a 5th gen nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple charging cord--not knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he insisted so like an idiot I figured I'd show him how that was impossible....and of course I got shocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC but enough to get my attention. We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the garage. It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch. I've never had any issues with the power strip we were using. Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an invigorating 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any other ground is zero, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly. Inverting the cube (it's not polarized) makes no difference, still 60VAC. I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no shock. Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original combination: BZZZZT. So it is repeatable. There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of static shock when using their device. This was not your typical feet-on-carpet-touch-a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as long as I touched the lock switch. The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular combination of parts. Questions: In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric, non-static shock? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get into the system? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system? Could this happen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting through? Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic, --Dave Saylor


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:48:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod?
    From: Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
    Hi Dave I think it's an Apple thing - I get zapped by my aluminium Macbook Pro, exactly how you describe it - when it's plugged in. Sometimes it's actually painful, since the skin in the inner arms is pretty sensitive! I don't know if it's any different here in a 220V country, but I'd really like to get to the bottom of it. It's happened at multiple locations, which leads me to believe that it's also not affected by the supply wiring. Thanks Etienne On 25 June 2014 07:49, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com> wrote: > Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with an > iPod, I guess. > > Background: > > My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's a 5th > gen nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple charging > cord--not knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he insisted so > like an idiot I figured I'd show him how that was impossible....and of > course I got shocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC but enough to get my > attention. > > We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the garage. > It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch. I've never > had any issues with the power strip we were using. > > Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an > invigorating 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any other > ground is zero, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly. Inverting > the cube (it's not polarized) makes no difference, still 60VAC. > > I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no shock. > Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original combination: > BZZZZT. So it is repeatable. > > There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of static > shock when using their device. This was not your typical > feet-on-carpet-touch-a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as long as I > touched the lock switch. > > The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular > combination of parts. > > Questions: > > In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric, non-static > shock? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get into the > system? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system? Could > this happen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting through? > > Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic, > > --Dave Saylor > > * > > > * > >




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