Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:24 AM - Re: Re: Brownout battery charging? (Tcwtech)
2. 04:18 AM - Re: Brownout battery charging? (donjohnston)
3. 04:19 AM - Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? (John MacCallum)
4. 04:21 AM - Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? (racerjerry)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? (Eric M. Jones)
6. 06:51 AM - Re: How to decide if a heat sink is required for a Rect Br (Eric M. Jones)
7. 07:11 AM - Vintage Electronics at ShopGoodwill.com (Eric M. Jones)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: Vintage Electronics at ShopGoodwill.com (donjohnston)
9. 07:19 AM - Re: iPod shocks (GLEN MATEJCEK)
10. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: iPod shocks (Daniel Hooper)
11. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: iPod shocks (Etienne Phillips)
12. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: iPod shocks (James Kilford)
13. 10:44 AM - Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? (Eric Page)
14. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: iPod shocks (Dave Saylor)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Brownout battery charging? |
Our information is that at least the GRT 24 volt version is Not 12-24 capable
and suffers from low voltage reboot issues during engine cranking and for some
during electric hydraulic pump actuation. We have solved their issues on a
number of occasions using the 24 volt ips product.
Bob Newman.
TCW technologies.
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 10:42 PM, Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> If it's just brownout, and you have a 28V system...I'm guessing the EFIS will
run on 12-28 volts, so I doubt you'll sag under 12 volts when cranking. Be fine
won't it?
> Tim
>
>> On Jun 24, 2014, at 6:34 PM, "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>>>
>>> What's your anticipated architecture?
>>
>> Not sure what you're looking for. Like I said, I'm running a VPX-Pro, 24v electrical
system. I don't know how much more you need beyond the diagram I posted.
Let me know, and I'll provide it.
>>
>>> Under what conditions do you anticipate a battery failure?
>>
>> I don't anticipate a battery failure. My primary reason is to keep the EFIS
during engine start. An added benefit is being able to power the EFIS in the event
of a battery or contactor failure. The latter is just an added benefit. Not
a primary reason.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, you'll have to roll your own and you're going to be loathe to install
anything with robustness . . . meaning small . . . meaning not particularly long-lived
when connected across a DC bus system.
>>
>> Well, I was looking at 3-5ah (the EFIS and AHRS draw about 2a). So I certainly
wasn't looking for cross-country endurance.
>>
>>
>>> The deslumpifier is by far the more elegant solution . . . with a Z-13/8 or
similar architecture and rudimentary preventative maintenance, there's just no
compelling driver for bolting more boxes full of lead to your airplane . . .
even itty-bitty ones.
>>
>> Eric Jones provided me with a schematic for his DeSlumpifier a while back. But
after thinking about the time to make the changes for a 24v system and build
it, I thought that a backup battery option may be quicker and easier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425412#425412
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Brownout battery charging? |
tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> If it's just brownout, and you have a 28V system...I'm guessing the EFIS will
run on 12-28 volts, so I doubt you'll sag under 12 volts when cranking. Be fine
won't it?
> Tim
No. With GRT, you get either a 12v or a 24v version. The 24v version drops off
at around 21v.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425439#425439
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Subject: | How is it I get a shock from an iPod? |
HI Dave,
I think Carl can probably answer this best but I should think
it=99s caused by the Switch mode power supply of the Charger and a
floating ground coupled with
Double Insulation. In layman=99s terms the charger is building up
a charge because it=99s not earthed and because you are by
standing on the ground (or concrete) you get a small amount of
Current that flows through yourself from Ground. Therefore if your skin
resistance is low enough you feel a slight tingle. This often happens
with other devices that have floating grounds.
Tv=99s, Stereo Systems and other such devices.
It=99s gets to be more than 5 volts because the power supply has
internal high frequency switching transistors that are driving an output
transformer the primary winding of which is at least at
110 volts, (in the US and 240 volts here in Australia).
I don=99t think it is really correct for Apple to refer to it as a
static charge because usually if you continue to touch the device the
tingle will persist because the source of the current is still present
but others may have more information on that subject.
Cheers
John MacCalllum
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Saylor
Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014 3:49 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How is it I get a shock from an iPod?
Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with an
iPod, I guess.
Background:
My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's a
5th gen nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple
charging cord--not knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he
insisted so like an idiot I figured I'd show him how that was
impossible....and of course I got shocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC
but enough to get my attention.
We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the
garage. It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch.
I've never had any issues with the power strip we were using.
Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an
invigorating 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any other
ground is zero, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly.
Inverting the cube (it's not polarized) makes no difference, still
60VAC.
I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no
shock. Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original
combination: BZZZZT. So it is repeatable.
There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of static
shock when using their device. This was not your typical
feet-on-carpet-touch-a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as long
as I touched the lock switch.
The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular
combination of parts.
Questions:
In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric, non-static
shock? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get into
the system? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system?
Could this happen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting
through?
Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic,
--Dave Saylor
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? |
Buy one of those cheap LED type plug-in polarity testers from a home improvement
store and check the polarity of your garage outlets. It sounds like you may
have a dangerous condition in your shop with possible wire polarity reversal
and/or a grounded neutral. For about 5 bucks, the tester will quickly alert you
of any problem.
Another good idea is to retrofit a ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) into
garage outlets now required by code for new construction. A single GFCI will
protect all downstream outlets, so a GFCI is not required at every outlet for
protection and retrofitting is not a big deal. GFCIs are LIFESAVERS.
Your shock may be a wake-up call to a larger and quite dangerous problem for the
sake of your children and their breadwinner, please dont ignore it.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425442#425442
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Subject: | Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? |
> Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an invigorating
60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any other ground is zero, so
I figure the power strip is wired correctly. Inverting the cube (it's not polarized)
makes no difference, still 60VAC.
The actual ground to neutral is never zero, but it should be less than 3VAC. But
this is probably not the problem. Sounds like you have a bad charger, Dave.
And don't think because this is a common problem that it is acceptable. They could
all be bad.
do not archive
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425452#425452
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Subject: | Re: How to decide if a heat sink is required for a |
Rect Br
I sell very nice Power_Deuce_Schottkys for the Z-19 half bridges or any other purpose.
Very low Vf, modest heat sink included.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425453#425453
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/power_deuce_schottky_manual_269.pdf
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Subject: | Vintage Electronics at ShopGoodwill.com |
Do Not Archive
A couple weeks ago someone wanted to sell off a TV repair inventory and it reminded
me that my favorite "vintage electronics" market was the vintage electronics
(and miscellaneous) pages of ShopGoodwill.com.
There among the odd junk you can find Simpson 360/370's, old oscilloscopes, test
gear and all manner of stuff you wish you hadn't tossed. I keep thinking I should
email a note to Bob N., saying, "BOB!, you really should see this!" But
I have restrained myself... so far.
Last week I bid on a Curta Type I calculator. Cheeeeez..........
I just grabbed a 4DX Flightcom headset (brand new) for $49.
Remember it all goes to charity.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425454#425454
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Subject: | Re: Vintage Electronics at ShopGoodwill.com |
Eric M. Jones wrote:
> Last week I bid on a Curta Type I calculator. Cheeeeez..........
A Curta Type I? How much did you bid and did you get it???
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425456#425456
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>
> Hi Guys- it sounds like you are getting a half wave tickle, which could
> imply that the guts of the device are intended for a polarized plug while
> the polarized plug itself is absent. If that is the case, each time you
> plug in you would have a 50 / 50 chance of getting a have wave zap, 60v
> here and 110 v for Etienne. I'd repeat the V measurement excercise twice,
> once with each plug / recceptacle orientation. If you get 1/2 line V one
> way and zero the other, there you go.
>
>
> Time: 10:51:06 PM PST US
> From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: How is it I get a shock from an iPod?
>
> Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with an iPod,
> I guess.
>
> Background:
>
> My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's a 5th
> gen nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple charging
> cord--not knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he insisted so
> like an idiot I figured I'd show him how that was impossible....and of
> course I got shocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC but enough to get my
> attention.
>
> We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the garage.
> It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch. I've never
> had any issues with the power strip we were using.
>
> Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an
> invigorating 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any other
> ground is zero, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly. Inverting
> the cube (it's not polarized) makes no difference, still 60VAC.
>
> I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no shock.
> Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original combination:
> BZZZZT. So it is repeatable.
>
> There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of static
> shock when using their device. This was not your typical
> feet-on-carpet-touch-a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as long as I
> touched the lock switch.
>
> The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular combination
> of parts.
>
> Questions:
>
> In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric, non-static
> shock? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get into the
> system? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system? Could
> this happen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting through?
>
> Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic,
>
> --Dave Saylor
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:48:32 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How is it I get a shock from an iPod?
> From: Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Dave
>
> I think it's an Apple thing - I get zapped by my aluminium Macbook Pro,
> exactly how you describe it - when it's plugged in. Sometimes it's actually
> painful, since the skin in the inner arms is pretty sensitive! I don't know
> if it's any different here in a 220V country, but I'd really like to get to
> the bottom of it. It's happened at multiple locations, which leads me to
> believe that it's also not affected by the supply wiring.
>
> Thanks
> Etienne
>
>
> On 25 June 2014 07:49, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with an
> > iPod, I guess.
> >
> > Background:
> >
> > My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's a 5th
> > gen nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple charging
> > cord--not knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he insisted so
> > like an idiot I figured I'd show him how that was impossible....and of
> > course I got shocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC but enough to get my
> > attention.
> >
> > We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the
> garage.
> > It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch. I've never
> > had any issues with the power strip we were using.
> >
> > Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an
> > invigorating 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any other
> > ground is zero, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly. Inverting
> > the cube (it's not polarized) makes no difference, still 60VAC.
> >
> > I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no
> shock.
> > Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original combination:
> > BZZZZT. So it is repeatable.
> >
> > There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of static
> > shock when using their device. This was not your typical
> > feet-on-carpet-touch-a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as long
> as I
> > touched the lock switch.
> >
> > The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular
> > combination of parts.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric, non-static
> > shock? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get into
> the
> > system? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system? Could
> > this happen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting through?
> >
> > Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic,
> >
> > --Dave Saylor
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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The puzzling thing is that there should be no path for these kinds of
shocks, no matter what...
See Ken Shirriff's teardown of an apple charger here:
http://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html
and here:
http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html
Is the voltage between neutral and ground zero *when it's plugged in*? I
wonder if you don't have some resistance there or something that
develops a voltage only when there is a load applied. Very odd.
On Jun 25, 2014, at 9:18 AM, GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys- it sounds like you are getting a half wave tickle, which
could imply that the guts of the device are intended for a polarized
plug while the polarized plug itself is absent. If that is the case,
each time you plug in you would have a 50 / 50 chance of getting a have
wave zap, 60v here and 110 v for Etienne. I'd repeat the V measurement
excercise twice, once with each plug / recceptacle orientation. If you
get 1/2 line V one way and zero the other, there you go.
>
>
>
>
>
> Time: 10:51:06 PM PST US
> From: Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: How is it I get a shock from an iPod?
>
> Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with an
iPod,
> I guess.
>
> Background:
>
> My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's a
5th
> gen nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple charging
> cord--not knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he insisted
so
> like an idiot I figured I'd show him how that was impossible....and of
> course I got shocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC but enough to get
my
> attention.
>
> We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the
garage.
> It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch. I've
never
> had any issues with the power strip we were using.
>
> Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an
> invigorating 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any
other
> ground is zero, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly.
Inverting
> the cube (it's not polarized) makes no difference, still 60VAC.
>
> I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no
shock.
> Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original combination:
> BZZZZT. So it is repeatable.
>
> There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of static
> shock when using their device. This was not your typical
> feet-on-carpet-touch-a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as long
as I
> touched the lock switch.
>
> The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular
combination
> of parts.
>
> Questions:
>
> In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric, non-static
> shock? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get into
the
> system? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system?
Could
> this happen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting through?
>
> Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic,
>
> --Dave Saylor
>
> ________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:48:32 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How is it I get a shock from an iPod?
> From: Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Dave
>
> I think it's an Apple thing - I get zapped by my aluminium Macbook
Pro,
> exactly how you describe it - when it's plugged in. Sometimes it's
actually
> painful, since the skin in the inner arms is pretty sensitive! I don't
know
> if it's any different here in a 220V country, but I'd really like to
get to
> the bottom of it. It's happened at multiple locations, which leads me
to
> believe that it's also not affected by the supply wiring.
>
> Thanks
> Etienne
>
>
> On 25 June 2014 07:49, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with
an
> > iPod, I guess.
> >
> > Background:
> >
> > My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's
a 5th
> > gen nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple
charging
> > cord--not knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he
insisted so
> > like an idiot I figured I'd show him how that was impossible....and
of
> > course I got shocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC but enough to get
my
> > attention.
> >
> > We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the
garage.
> > It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch. I've
never
> > had any issues with the power strip we were using.
> >
> > Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an
> > invigorating 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any
other
> > ground is zero, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly.
Inverting
> > the cube (it's not polarized) makes no difference, still 60VAC.
> >
> > I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no
shock.
> > Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original combination:
> > BZZZZT. So it is repeatable.
> >
> > There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of
static
> > shock when using their device. This was not your typical
> > feet-on-carpet-touch-a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as
long as I
> > touched the lock switch.
> >
> > The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular
> > combination of parts.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric,
non-static
> > shock? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get
into the
> > system? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system?
Could
> > this happen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting
through?
> >
> > Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic,
> >
> > --Dave Saylor
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> -
> ric-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Hi Glen
I've tried swapping the plug around, with no improvement. The charger is
supplied with a non-polarized 2-pin plug on the end, so it's being used as
intended (certainly as intended by Apple, but maybe not by the people who
designed the insides - if not Apple).
This isn't an isolated incident, it happened on my previous Macbook Pro (7
years ago) and happened in the iStore last week on the latest generation
stuff. I'm not saying it's right, as it certainly isn't pleasant - but it
doesn't seem as though Apple is taking complaints about it too seriously.
I'll try and remember to take a voltage measurement tonight to see how bad
it is. What is interesting is that it zaps me no matter how well I'm
insulated from the floor.
Etienne
On 25 June 2014 16:18, GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys- it sounds like you are getting a half wave tickle, which could
>> imply that the guts of the device are intended for a polarized plug while
>> the polarized plug itself is absent. If that is the case, each time you
>> plug in you would have a 50 / 50 chance of getting a have wave zap, 60v
>> here and 110 v for Etienne. I'd repeat the V measurement excercise twice,
>> once with each plug / recceptacle orientation. If you get 1/2 line V one
>> way and zero the other, there you go.
>
>
Message 12
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Hi Etienne,
Same here in the UK, but with a Toshiba laptop. Some of the black coating
has rubbed off the left-hand front corner of the laptop, revealing a tiny
1x1mm bit of metal... right where my wrist is. When it's plugged in, I get
a shock from it; when it's not, I don't. Here in the UK, all sockets are
wired the same way, with specific L, N & E terminals.
FWIW.
James
p.s. a further oddity. If I run my finger along the laptop, for example
next to the mousepad, it sort of "drags" when the laptop's plugged in...
when it's not, there's no friction at all. Go figure!
On 25 June 2014 15:46, Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Glen
>
> I've tried swapping the plug around, with no improvement. The charger is
> supplied with a non-polarized 2-pin plug on the end, so it's being used as
> intended (certainly as intended by Apple, but maybe not by the people who
> designed the insides - if not Apple).
>
> This isn't an isolated incident, it happened on my previous Macbook Pro (7
> years ago) and happened in the iStore last week on the latest generation
> stuff. I'm not saying it's right, as it certainly isn't pleasant - but it
> doesn't seem as though Apple is taking complaints about it too seriously.
>
> I'll try and remember to take a voltage measurement tonight to see how bad
> it is. What is interesting is that it zaps me no matter how well I'm
> insulated from the floor.
>
> Etienne
>
>
> On 25 June 2014 16:18, GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys- it sounds like you are getting a half wave tickle, which could
>>> imply that the guts of the device are intended for a polarized plug while
>>> the polarized plug itself is absent. If that is the case, each time you
>>> plug in you would have a 50 / 50 chance of getting a have wave zap, 60v
>>> here and 110 v for Etienne. I'd repeat the V measurement excercise twice,
>>> once with each plug / recceptacle orientation. If you get 1/2 line V one
>>> way and zero the other, there you go.
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: How is it I get a shock from an iPod? |
Dave,
I think it's likely that the charging cube you have, though it may look like
genuine Apple, is actually a knockoff. There have been many examples of th
ese coming from China, and they almost never have the same safety-minded des
ign as the genuine article. They look virtually identical, but the insides a
re a joke by comparison. If it is an Apple, it clearly has a manufacturing d
efect.
Obviously, these things convert 120VAC to 5VDC. Believe it or not, the proc
ess involves AC voltages much higher than line voltage. If the device doesn
't have proper allowances in its design for creepage and clearance (distance
between high and low voltage sections), it can be a death trap. I *STRONGL
Y* recommend that you throw the offending charger away *IMMEDIATELY* and get
a new one. I would stick with either a genuine Apple part, or one of the w
ell-known aftermarket brands like Belkin.
You should never feel an AC shock from any consumer electronics device. Eve
r.
Eric
P.S. Crack the cube open and take a couple pictures of the insides before y
ou toss it. It's pretty easy to tell the difference between Apple and knock
off.
On Jun 25, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters@gmail.com
> wrote:
> Here's a non-aviation question for the group. Unless you fly with an iPod
, I guess.
>
> Background:
>
> My son complained today that he got shocked by an iPod. FWIW, it's a 5th g
en nano plugged into an Apple USB charging cube by an Apple charging cord--n
ot knock-off parts. First I said yeah, right...but he insisted so like an i
diot I figured I'd show him how that was impossible....and of course I got s
hocked too. Not as strong as 120VAC but enough to get my attention.
>
> We were both barefoot (key, I think...) on a concrete slab, in the garage.
It happened when either of us touched the metal lock switch. I've never h
ad any issues with the power strip we were using.
>
> Putting a meter between the lock switch and ground I measure an invigorati
ng 60VAC. Between the neutral of the power strip to any other ground is zer
o, so I figure the power strip is wired correctly. Inverting the cube (it's n
ot polarized) makes no difference, still 60VAC.
>
> I tried a few things: different plug, no shock. Different cord, no shock.
Different cube, no shock. I went back to the original combination: BZZZZ
T. So it is repeatable.
>
> There's an Apple support document describing the possibility of static sho
ck when using their device. This was not your typical feet-on-carpet-touch-
a-doorknob static shock. It was sustained as long as I touched the lock swit
ch.
>
> The iPod works and charges just fine except for that particular combinatio
n of parts.
>
> Questions:
>
> In general, how is it that an iPod can give me an electric, non-static sho
ck? I thought that USB was only 5V. How does more than 5V get into the syst
em? Or more appropriately, how does it get out of the system? Could this h
appen from a 12V system, or is part of the 120V getting through?
>
> Thanks for tolerating a non-airplane topic,
>
> --Dave Saylor
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Thanks to everyone who replied. This is such a great resource, I never get
tired of the discussion.
I did some more checking. My garage wiring seems to be fine. Can't find
any fault there. I really do appreciate the concern, you guys are great.
As for the half wave, even with polarity reversed, same effect.
I tried a couple more chargers. A different Belkin charger gives me a 45V
potential to ground. I have one of the dedicated USB receptacles that
wires into a wall plug. It only gives me about 3V, which I figure is maybe
just noise.
And I tried a few more locations for the chargers. They seem to give the
same result no matter where they're plugged in.
Same result with two iPods and an iPhone. Nothing, though, with an iPad
that uses the new type of mini plug.
So the problem seems to be in the charger, some worse than others. I think
the big difference was being barefoot on the concrete slab. That gave a
great path to ground, courtesy of yours truly.
I'm getting a new charger!
--Dave
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 8:02 AM, James Kilford <james@etravel.org> wrote:
> Hi Etienne,
>
> Same here in the UK, but with a Toshiba laptop. Some of the black coating
> has rubbed off the left-hand front corner of the laptop, revealing a tiny
> 1x1mm bit of metal... right where my wrist is. When it's plugged in, I get
> a shock from it; when it's not, I don't. Here in the UK, all sockets are
> wired the same way, with specific L, N & E terminals.
>
> FWIW.
>
> James
>
> p.s. a further oddity. If I run my finger along the laptop, for example
> next to the mousepad, it sort of "drags" when the laptop's plugged in...
> when it's not, there's no friction at all. Go figure!
>
>
> On 25 June 2014 15:46, Etienne Phillips <etienne.phillips@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Glen
>>
>> I've tried swapping the plug around, with no improvement. The charger is
>> supplied with a non-polarized 2-pin plug on the end, so it's being used as
>> intended (certainly as intended by Apple, but maybe not by the people who
>> designed the insides - if not Apple).
>>
>> This isn't an isolated incident, it happened on my previous Macbook Pro
>> (7 years ago) and happened in the iStore last week on the latest generation
>> stuff. I'm not saying it's right, as it certainly isn't pleasant - but it
>> doesn't seem as though Apple is taking complaints about it too seriously.
>>
>> I'll try and remember to take a voltage measurement tonight to see how
>> bad it is. What is interesting is that it zaps me no matter how well I'm
>> insulated from the floor.
>>
>> Etienne
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 June 2014 16:18, GLEN MATEJCEK <fly4grins@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys- it sounds like you are getting a half wave tickle, which could
>>>> imply that the guts of the device are intended for a polarized plug while
>>>> the polarized plug itself is absent. If that is the case, each time you
>>>> plug in you would have a 50 / 50 chance of getting a have wave zap, 60v
>>>> here and 110 v for Etienne. I'd repeat the V measurement excercise twice,
>>>> once with each plug / recceptacle orientation. If you get 1/2 line V one
>>>> way and zero the other, there you go.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
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