Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Re: Dual master solenoids (tomhanaway)
2. 04:20 AM - Re: Learning (Tomhanaway)
3. 05:07 AM - Re: Dual master solenoids (user9253)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Dual master solenoids (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:10 AM - Re: Battery choice (Dj Merrill)
6. 09:19 AM - Re: Battery choice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:01 AM - Re: Battery choice (Dj Merrill)
8. 12:31 PM - Re: Battery choice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 01:55 PM - Noisy USB Charger (Dennis Johnson)
10. 04:56 PM - Re: Noisy USB Charger (Sacha)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dual master solenoids |
Thanks Joe,
Once I started thinking in terms of a relay, this came pretty close to what I was
looking for.
Interesting use of a starter enable/disable switch to ensure no cranking current
through relay.
Interesting question ( to me, anyway), are heavy duty continuous service relays
any less reliable than mechanical relays? If about the same
reliability, what are the reasons that they aren't used more often for a
master solenoid? As you stated, the weight differential is pretty significant.
Thanks again,
Tom
--------
RV-10. Built and sold
RV-8a. Building
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426622#426622
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
If you don't find what you want, contact SteinAir and tell them exactly what instruments
you'll be installing. They will provide a complete schematic showing
where each wire connects to each pin. Great company to do business with.
Worth it's weight in gold for those doing their own wiring. Plus, it gives you
and any future operator a reference chart for the future.
I made a copy of mine and marked off each wire as I installed them
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 13, 2014, at 12:21 PM, John Tipton <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> You are so lucky Jim: over here (UK/Europe) we have to fit to new builds 8.33
radios, and Mode S transponders, and all aircraft by the end of 2015 are to be
so equipped - a lot of surplus equipment will be available !!!
>
> John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> ----x--O--x----
>
>> On 13 Jul 2014, at 04:45 pm, Jim Gilliatt <jim.gilliatt@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>> Not to my knowledge, and I have talked to many people who are well aware of
the requirements.
>> I hope I'm not showing my ignorance here.
>> Jim
>>
>>> On 7/13/2014 11:33 AM, John Tipton wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I take it that 8.33 radios, and mode S transponders are not a (I presume your
in) USA requirement for new fits
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> ----x--O--x----
>>>
>>>> On 13 Jul 2014, at 04:21 pm, Jim Gilliatt <jim.gilliatt@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> I am installing a Bendix KX155 transceiver, a Bendix KT 76A transponder, a
Dynon EFIS D100 and a PM500EX intercom in a Kitfox Series 7 with a Continental
IO240. Can anyone supply me with a wiring diagram for this configuration?
It has to be plain to a 6 year old; I have all the installation manuals, and
they are mostly Greek to the uninformed; I am floundering around like a beginner,
which I am. I may have bitten off more that I can chew, but I'll be a monkey's
uncle if I'll it give up.
>>>> At least I'm learning a whole lot.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim Gilliatt
>>>> Rhode Island
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dual master solenoids |
> are heavy duty continuous service relays any less reliable than mechanical relays?
If about the same reliability, what are the reasons that they aren't used
more often for a master solenoid?
There are several ways that a relay or contactor can fail. The contacts can develop
a high resistance, the coil can burn open, springs or other mechanical parts
can break, and etc. I do not know which type is more likely to fail. The
current carrying capability determines which relay or contactor to use. Starters
can draw a few hundred amps initially to get the engine rotating. A 30
amp automotive relay would not last very long carrying that much current.
So why have the starter current go though the master contactor? The starter
contactor could be wired directly to the battery. I think the reason is that
contactors have been known to fail closed. Having two contactors in series makes
sure that the circuit can be opened.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426626#426626
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Dual master solenoids |
At 07:06 AM 7/14/2014, you wrote:
>
>
> > are heavy duty continuous service relays any less reliable than
> mechanical relays? If about the same reliability, what are the
> reasons that they aren't used more often for a master solenoid?
"Reliability" is a rather soggy concept.
It can mean different things to most speakers
in a group of conversants. If you
write to Stancore/White-Rogers and ask,
just HOW reliable is your 70-110 contactor?
. . . they MIGHT fire back with a laboratory
study that cites cycle-life of the contactor
under various loads and perhaps environmental
conditions. Write to Tyco about reliability
of their Kilovac contactors and you MIGHT
get another report.
Okay, Tyco's numbers are better than S/W-R
numbers . . . now what?
As I've been explaining in my writing and
presentations for the past 30 years, the
elegant design has little, if any, interest
in those numbers. Lessons-learned in over
a century of building airplanes have demonstrated
that the designer's prime directive is to
reduce risk for a bad day in the cockpit.
To be sure, if money, weight, $time$
to market and cost of ownership were
of no concern, then there are virtually
limitless ways that hedges against risk
can be applied to the system. But applied
without the confidence that comes from
understanding there is a larger risk that
the end-product is burdened with "safety
features" that degrade performance to
far greater degrees than protecting the
airframe and crew.
Emacs!
My teachers would ask, "Okay, you've selected a
whiz-bang part for that location in the airplane,
make your case for the decision." Had I whipped
out the reliability data sheets for the constellation
of choices and said, "See here, look at THOSE numbers!"
they might have banished me to purchasing support
or perhaps the EMC lab.
The first bit of guidance germane to your decision
resides in lessons-learned. Question: How many
times have pilots experienced a bad day in the
cockpit due to in-flight failure of the battery
master contactor?
I haven't a clue . . . because the incidents have
been so few in numbers and so benign as to become
completely buried in COMPONENT failures that
put the whole SYSTEM at risk . . . The aviation
journals are replete with what I have called
"dark n stormy night" stories . . . most of
which are so lacking in data as to defy understanding
of root cause . . . or more illustrative of human
weaknesses than those of the airplane.
Consider that EVERY contactor is RATED and
TESTED in the lab to perform as advertised
for tens of thousands of cycles at rated lioad.
YOUR battery contactor is going to close/open
once per flight cycle . . . perhaps 100 times
per YEAR and under nearly zero-load conditions.
Were you to conduct laboratory reliability
testing for conditions in YOUR airplane, it's
unlikely that you would ever see a failure.
We HAVE seen some failures here on the List.
Detailed analysis revealed failure due to
a variety of reasons including manufacturing
defects
Emacs!
moisture ingress, and installation error . . . but in no
case were the failures first detected in flight.
Carrying lessons-learned a step further we can conduct
a failure effects study. You do this by ASSUMING that every
part will fail at some point in time. You then analyze
how that failure will affect system performance. For
failures that pose unacceptable risk, you make some
design changes. Except for things like wing struts
and prop bolts, the elegant design drives more toward
failure TOLERANCE than failure PROOF.
See: http://tinyurl.com/ozum5u9
If your studies for optimal design are driving you
toward the purchase of high-dollar hardware -OR-
adding backup components, then perhaps your confidence
born of lessons-learned and artful conduct of
failure analysis is shaky. I suggest that crafting
any of the Z-Figures chosen to match your mission
profiles and hardware will produce an exceedingly
failure tolerant system. I suggest further that
Z13/8 has more bang for the buck/pound/volume than
systems flying in some pretty sophisticated airplanes.
The very first example of Z13-8 flying in an OBAM
aircraft was in an RV-8 in Connecticut about 25
years ago . . . the father-son build team were
delighted with its performance and confidence
levels.
They could loose a battery master contactor
every few months and not suffer a bad day in
the cockpit . . . but I'll bet that the Model
70 contactor installed day-on is still flying.
Bob . . .
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery choice |
On 05/22/2014 09:18 PM, Dj Merrill wrote:
> $44 including shipping from Amazon for the UB12220 battery, 12v 22Ah in
> the same form factor.
> A plus is that it is 9 lbs lighter than the 25 Ah battery it will be
> replacing (a B and C model BC110-1).
>
> Bob,
> I will report back to the list as to how it performs. I have a low
> compression 150hp Lycoming O-320 with a light weight starter, so it
> should hopefully turn it over with no difficulty.
Finally got the plane back together yesterday from the panel upgrade,
and am reporting back to the list with the results. I installed one of
these as the main battery:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G8FY38/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and one of these as the aux battery:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004J2TAZQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I was only able to do taxi testing yesterday due to weather, however,
the UB12220 battery turned the engine over just as fast as the previous
B&C battery, so no issues with cranking power (in summer at least).
I'll let you know more as I test further.
On a somewhat related note, do contactors normally get very hot when in
use? After running the engine and taxiing around for 15-20 mins
yesterday, I stuck my hand back behind the baggage area to feel the
battery and listen to see if I could hear it "boiling" (it was not hot
or boiling). I happened to touch the contactor, and it was very hot,
almost to the point of burning my hand, but not quite. Hot enough so
that it was very uncomfortable keeping my hand on it for more than a few
seconds. Is this is normal?
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery choice |
On a somewhat related note, do contactors normally get very hot when in
use? After running the engine and taxiing around for 15-20 mins
yesterday, I stuck my hand back behind the baggage area to feel the
battery and listen to see if I could hear it "boiling" (it was not hot
or boiling). I happened to touch the contactor, and it was very hot,
almost to the point of burning my hand, but not quite. Hot enough so
that it was very uncomfortable keeping my hand on it for more than a few
seconds. Is this is normal?
Yes. "Hot" is a relative term. While the outside
surface of the contactor may become too warm to
keep your fingers on it, this condition is normal.
http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
Internal components of the contactor
are rated for much higher levels.
An RG battery in distress doesn't 'gurgle' but
it does whistle. Finished some tests on a really
big RG battery a few months ago wherein a Schumacher
charger failed to perform as advertised . . .
the battery was 'singing' as pressures exceeded
settings on the vent valves.
Bob . . .
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery choice |
On 07/14/2014 12:18 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Yes. "Hot" is a relative term. While the outside
> surface of the contactor may become too warm to
> keep your fingers on it, this condition is normal.
Excellent, thank you!
> An RG battery in distress doesn't 'gurgle' but
> it does whistle.
I was listening for any sort of weird noise coming from the battery.
I've also had a Schumacher charger go wonky on me (it is sitting on my
bench right now), and from one RG battery I could clearly hear what
sounded like "boiling/bubbling", and from another the "hissing/singing"
as you describe. The voltage from the charger was getting up to 15.7 or
so. I haven't had the time to tear it apart to see if it can be
adjusted down. The other charger that seems to be working correctly
puts out 14.5 volts.
The UB12220 battery has a label on the top that says it can handle up to
14.7 volts, and my alternator is putting out 14.2, so I am hopeful this
battery will work fine in the plane. The essential bus diode is
dropping 0.6v across it, giving 13.6 v on the e-bus, which seems reasonable.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery choice |
The UB12220 battery has a label on the top that says it can handle up to
14.7 volts, and my alternator is putting out 14.2, so I am hopeful this
battery will work fine in the plane. The essential bus diode is
dropping 0.6v across it, giving 13.6 v on the e-bus, which seems reasonable.
-Dj
Some weeks ago, a Lister published a reply from Odyssey
in response to a query about his PC680 battery life.
The response spoke to the holy-watered manner in which
Odyssey batteries should be recharged . . . the letter
also stated that "no Schumacher chargers are approved".
I've been a follower of SOME Schumacher products for
a dozen years or more. In particular, I've owned a number
of 1562, 2A charger/maintainers. For the most part, every
1562 I've tested produced a recharge profile that mirrored
this plot. Well within the recommended profile suggested
by Hawker-Enersys.
http://tinyurl.com/pwo2oxv
I do have a 1562 charger around here that was
sent to me for testing . . . but it got 'swallowed
up' in a re-organization of my shop digs perpetrated
by a grandma/grand-daughter conspiracy . . .
the charter is not lost, I just don't know where it
is right now . . . the shop looks nice.
A few weeks ago I spoke to my disappointment for the
demonstrated performance of a new Schumacher XC75W
charger with lots of push buttons and a digital display.
Three successive recharge cycles of the same battery
produced these profiles . . .
Emacs!
The first recharge was in the "AGM" mode, consistent with
the configuration of battery. As you can see, this profile peaked
at over 15.5 volts . . . The next time I tried the "STD"
mode with similar results. Finally a recharge cycle in the "GEL"
mode produced a perfectly acceptable performance . . .
I forwarded this data to Schumacher asking for an opportunity
to talk with an engineer . . . I have yet to hear from them.
From this experience I must conclude that any tendency
toward blind faith in Schumacher's ability to produce a
well crafted recharge profile is not well placed.
I was surprised that Odyssey put the evil eye on Schumacher
some years ago . . . they did the same thing to Battery
Minder. I would like to see the data upon which their
displeasure stands but the data above suggests that
Odyssey's displeasure may be standing on solid physics . . .
You spoke to an observed output of 14.2 volts . . . which
is in no way abusive to the battery. But the Rest Of the
Story speaks to the complete recharge profile as plotted
in the data cited above. I'm doing a study of both lithium
batteries and suitable chargers . . . watch this space.
I have no doubt that the 12220 battery will perform well
when knew. If it suffers any weakness, it will manifest
in poor service ilfe . . .
Bob . . .
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Noisy USB Charger |
Hi Sacha,
You asked for a Wal-Mart.com link to the USB charger that I'm using that
doesn't create "noise" on my comm radio. Sorry, but I can't find it on
Wal-Mart's web site. I bought it in the store. Here is the info
printed on the charger; you might be able to find it on eBay or locally
from a different store.
I think it's manufactured by ONN
Model #: ONA12WI268
Input: 100-240 VAC
Input: 12-24 VDC
Output: 5.0VDC 2.1A
There is an additional number that might be some kind of certification:
E347649
It has two input specs because it can be plugged into a cigar lighter or
into a house wall socket. It also has two USB sockets that can charge
both at 2.1 A simultaneously.
Dennis
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Noisy USB Charger |
Thanks Dennis for that. I guess the different Walmart stores carry different
products cos I couldn't find it in the one I went to.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|