Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:07 AM - Re: Re: LiFePo Battery (Guido von Allmen)
2. 04:59 AM - WD-40 As a Lubricant (Owen Baker)
3. 07:38 AM - Re: speedometer, not tachometer question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 10:14 AM - Re: LiFePo Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:47 AM - NiCd batteries that (crouton)
6. 10:56 AM - Re: Garmin 430W - Comm & Nav Power from Separate Busses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:01 PM - Re: speedometer, not tachometer question (rayj)
8. 12:12 PM - Re: Ni-Cad? (Peter Pengilly)
9. 04:23 PM - Re: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem (Matt Prather)
10. 09:39 PM - Re: Garmin 430W - Comm & Nav Power from Separate Busses (Tim Andres)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LiFePo Battery |
Eric,
no I never got an answer or comment to my question. I installed the
below mentioned battery into our Tailwind recently and saved 12,2 kg
in weight ! Our old lead acid battery ( Sonnenschein ) was 14 kg and
the new one is only 1,8kg ! The cranking power is excellent even
better than with the lead acid battery. Up to now we had no problems
but is only one month and 5 starts with run ups away.
Guido
On 29.07.2014, at 03:38, eschlanser wrote:
> >
>
> Guido,
> Did you ever receive a reply to your battery question?
> Sometimes questions get lost if Bob and others are busy sorting out
> other issues.
> Ask again. I am also curious about the new batteries.
> Eric
>
>
> lapulce(at)sunrise.ch wrote:
>> Hello Bob and who it may concerne,
>> I am quite new to this group. I recently bought in Friedrichshafen at
>> the Aero 2014 a new LiFePo battery from AeroAkku ( model LFP450 D
>> Starter Battery for Lyc 0-320 ) The vendor told me that these
>> batteries are built with A123 Systems elements APR 18650M1. Do you
>> know this product ( it looks like a german assembly ) and has someone
>> of this list some or even extended experience with this type of
>> battery in general aviation especially concerning how to recharge and
>> reliability.
>> Thanks in advance
>> Guido
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427486#427486
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | WD-40 As a Lubricant |
7/29/2014
Hello All, David Lloyd wrote: =9CDon't use WD-40. It congeals
after time and in a long cable drive that is
bad situation.=9D
Amen to that. In fact don=99t use original plain WD-40 as a
lubricant, that is a self defeating action. It is true that original
plain WD-40 may free up some mechanism initially (as would almost any
low viscosity fluid, even water), but the longer term effect will not be
lubricating in nature. Spraying original plain WD-40 may even wash away
what little lubrication that remains in the mechanism making the longer
term situation worse.
Original plain WD-40 is a great product for doing just exactly what it
was designed to do, displace water. That is why it is called W(ater)
D(isplacing) =93 40. When people began to mistakenly spray it as a
lubricant and initially got some lubricating effect the WD-40 marketing
people jumped on the bandwagon and began to claim lubricating properties
for that product in their advertisement and labeling.
Now the WD-40 company has some specialty products that may be suitable
for your lubrication use. See here:
http://www.wd40specialist.com/products
But don=99t be sucked into using original plain WD-40 as a
lubricant, use a true lubricating product.
OC
======
Time: 02:30:26 PM PST US
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: speedometer, not tachometer question
Sacha,
If, indeed it is cable drive, that is probably the problem.
The cable drive interior gets dry over time and lots of friction
develops.
Figure out a way to disconnect the top end of the cable and spray a
silicon
based spray or similar down the interior of it.
It will take some time to work the lubricant down a tight cable.
Don't use WD-40. It congeals after time and in a long cable drive that
is
bad situation. David
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: speedometer, not tachometer question |
At 10:32 PM 7/28/2014, you wrote:
>
>Thanks for the tip David.
>Knowing nothing about how these things are built I assumed that this
>was an electrical problem (I was imagining it was the sign of a
>faulty ground connection) but I guess I was a long way off the
>mark. Apologies for the off topic post and thanks again for everybody's help.
>
>Sacha
The warnings for WD40 are on point. This is VERY
useful product for a narrow range of applications
none of which included long term lubrication . . .
ESPECIALLY high pressure (gears and chains).
One interesting use of WD40 was in the after-dunking
refurbishment of this target . . .
http://tinyurl.com/qaxjmk9
Many missions for this aircraft were flown over water
where it was recovered on a parachute at the end
of the mission. After hoisting out of the water,
the engine was removed and submerged in a barrel
of WD40 . . . the rest of airplane's components
were rinsed off (avionics was in a water-tight
compartment), checked for operation and the whole
airplane re-assembled for the next mission. Broken
parts were replaced (missiles would often damage
parts of the airframe due to direct hits). Every
MQM-107 operations base had a 'bone yard' of targets
from which serious replacement parts could be
salvaged.
The engine would be spun up with air to clear
the WD-40 (and bits of seaweed) and reinstalled.
The airplane was ready for the next mission!
Flex drives are quite common in modern aircraft.
Most notably flap systems where a centrally mounted
power unit's energy is 'piped' out to ball-screw
actuators in the wings.
Each system designer probably has their 'favorite'
lubrication material based on temperatures, speeds
and shaft loads. A web search will produce a bucket
full of first hand advice most of which is probably
adequate to the task. EVERY kind of 'slick' stuff
has been used at one time or another on a flex shaft. See:
http://tinyurl.com/mmkushv
Checked the service manual for my '87 GMC
p/u. It says:
Emacs!
In another GM service manual I found this
reference:
Emacs!
Didn't find any specifics on the makeup of
this product but some inferences that it was
a special graphite bearing lubricant specific
to speedometer cables.
Flex shafts are common in single engine tachometer
drives as well. The core of the shaft can be pulled
out of the jacket. You can wipe down the flex shaft
with a rag and solvent. Flush the jacket with a
can of carb or brake cleaner squirted down the upper
opening. Follow with compress air to get it DRY.
Get a small bottle of graphite. Autoparts stores
used to offer a bottle of graphite that could
be screwed onto the speedometer (upper end)
of a cable and left in place while you "drive
some miles" with some notion that the graphite
would distribute down the shaft with time and
motion. The better technique is to squirt about
5CC of graphite into the empty jacket then
push it through with strokes of clean and
dry flex shaft.
Flex shafts with high torque on them WILL
run harder against the jacket wall and graphite
is not a high pressure lubricant. But for speedo
and tach shafts, I suspect that graphite is
never wrong.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LiFePo Battery |
At 02:16 PM 7/6/2014, you wrote:
Hello Bob and who it may concerne,
I am quite new to this group. I recently bought in Friedrichshafen at
the Aero 2014 a new LiFePo battery from AeroAkku ( model LFP450 D
Starter Battery for Lyc 0-320 ) The vendor told me that these
batteries are built with A123 Systems elements APR 18650M1. Do you
know this product ( it looks like a german assembly ) and has someone
of this list some or even extended experience with this type of
battery in general aviation especially concerning how to recharge and
reliability.
These are tough questions to answer. There is virtually zero
long term history of A123 or any other product in OBAM aircraft
from which one might offer anecdotal observations . . . much
less comparative studies for return on investment to be
realized by selecting this or any other lithium product.
As to 'recharge' recommendations, I'll note that even the
pronouncements of the manufacturers is all over the map.
Some folks bundle up some cells in a nice case an say,
"Here's a drop in replacement for lead-acid." This is
demonstrably not true. Others will include a nifty
connector for a 'smart charger' on their product with
words like, "You don't NEED our supper-whippy charger
but . . . using it could double your battery life."
Say what? By the way, they DON'T tell you the operational
protocols under which the supper-whippy charger yields
the best battery service life.
Still others (EarthX most notably) have build advanced
battery management systems electronics INTO their
battery. These are probably as close as you will come
to a drop-in replacement for lead-acid. The fact that
lithium batteries have been demonstrated to benefit from
such advanced electronics is a BOLD statement that
argues with any other products that claim to replace
a lead-acid battery with their simple assembly of
cells into a nice case.
The jury is still out but evidence will being to mount
as the willing experimenters in the market sample the
range of products and begin to report their experiences.
Guido my friend, YOU are positioned to become the
authority as one of hopefully many participants in this
grand experiment. Operate your battery as close as possible
to the manufacturer's recommendations . . . and then you
tell US of your experience.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | NiCd batteries that |
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430W - Comm & Nav Power from Separate |
Busses
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 430W - Comm & Nav Power from
Separate Busses
At 04:24 PM 7/26/2014, you wrote:
<hoverandwire@yahoo.com>
99,
Using the AeroElectric Z-11 schematic, I plan to supply the Nav side
of the Garmin 430W from the Essential buss and the Comm side from the
Main buss. The Garmin install manual shows the comm and nav functions
of the 430W to be powered by separate wires with separate circuit
breakers. With my equipment list I don't need the comm function of
the 430W during battery only operations but I do need to power the
nav side. In an alternator failed situation with the master switch
off and the Essential buss alternate switch on, any reason why the
430W nav (GPS & VOR/LOC) will not work with the comm side receiving no power?
Not that I know of . . .
This excerpt from 430W install manual states
that COM power is mere milliamps in receive
and significant only in transmit.
Emacs!
How did your ENDURANCE load analysis come to suggest
that Com functions need not be part of an extended
battery-only ops scenario?
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: speedometer, not tachometer question |
I have used powdered graphite to lube speedometer cables since the '70s
with good success. I'd check with the mfgr and see what they recommend.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)
On 07/28/2014 04:29 PM, David Lloyd wrote:
> <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> Sacha,
>
> If, indeed it is cable drive, that is probably the problem.
> The cable drive interior gets dry over time and lots of friction develops.
> Figure out a way to disconnect the top end of the cable and spray a
> silicon based spray or similar down the interior of it.
> It will take some time to work the lubricant down a tight cable.
> Don't use WD-40. It congeals after time and in a long cable drive that
> is bad situation. David
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sacha" <uuccio@gmail.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 1:05 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: speedometer, not tachometer question
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Tachometer-measures engine rpm
>>>
>>> Thing that measures in Km/h - speedometer (drive train rpm)
>>
>> Thanks for correcting me Raymond. I meant the speedometer.
>>
>> It's a 1990 Toyota Hilux so I expect it's driven by cable not
>> electronics (but I'm no expert here so correct me if I'm wrong).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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Back in the early 90s the Royal Navy fleet of SeaKing helicopters (S-61
derivative) used NiCad batteries. We were pretty much banned from using
them to start and made sure ground power was always available. They
didn't turn the engine over quickly enough to get a reliable start -
usually too much fuel and not enough rpm resulted in a hot start with
sheets of flame out the exhaust - and potentially an overheated turbine.
The batteries were a lot of trouble, I remember several being float
tested after aircraft landed back on-board with over heating or smoking
battery compartments (now not an option as nothing is allowed over the
side). We could also swap out individual cells if a battery went down. I
guess the technology has moved on in 20 years, but I still would not be
rushing to fit one.
Peter
On 29/07/2014 05:06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>>
>> Great article 9/14 Kitplanes
>
> Thank you . . . I'm gathering info for the 4th chapter . . .
>
>>
>> Will you be doing a NiCad comparison article? The NiCal seems to
>> take a lot
>> more punishment without problems and Air Bus said they were looking at
>> them.
>
> There are very few companies that offer ni-cads
> suited to engine cranking. The legacy wet-cells
> are still made for replacement and refurbishment
> of an existing installation but they're not
> well liked in the general aviation community.
> I suggested that the OBAM aviation community
> take a look at wet ni-cads back about 1988 . . .
> but that was based on the availability of surplus
> cells that could be sorted and assembled into
> a DIY battery.
>
> Next time I talk to Skip Koss at Concorde, I'll
> ask him what his take is on the current state
> of the Ni-Cad market . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem |
Cool!
Matt-
On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com> wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks for all of the troubleshooting tips! I removed the 430, visually
> inspected the pins carefully, and reseated it as David suggests, and it is
> fixed!
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 2014, at 21:02, "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> skywagon@charter.net>
> >
> > Sacha makes a very good point. .
> > The 430 chassis to box-chassis connector fit is finicky.
> > I know. . .I have the "T-shirt"
> >
> > If the box-chassis is mounted in the aircraft panel a little to deep,
> this causes a problem. For when the 430 is slid into the box, it will not
> seat back deep enough to fully engage some connector pins.
> >
> > The fix is to loosen up the panel mounted box chassis and pull it
> forward to be flush with the panel or even a tad ( 1/16") out in front of
> the panel and then re-bolt it back to the panel framing.
> >
> > Another point. . .I do not recommend that you use the 430 locking jack
> mechanism to pull the 430 back into its locked position. If something is
> not aligned correctly you will not know it using the this method and could
> damage pins.
> >
> > I suggest that you get the 430 inserted by hand, fingers on each end of
> the the 430 panel. Gently rock it back in place feeling for any
> obstruction. Get it started in, turn the jacking system just enough to take
> up the slack. Then, using fingers only, rock the 430 further back into
> place and again feel for any odd resistance, then, using the jack, take up
> the slack.
> > Continue this until you "feel" it seat properly with it rear connectors.
> Stop if you feel any odd resistance and start over after checking for any
> bent pins, etc.
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sacha" <uuccio@gmail.com>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I had that problem. The GNS430 wasn't fully inserted into its slot and
> although the RX and TX button lit up it did not seem to transmit (or
> receive as I remember). See
> >>
> >>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=98650&view=next&sid=a9694aaf0de05619e08664647aea1483
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 26 Jul 2014, at 18:01, Matthew Prather <mapratherid@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I think someone had this issue when their radio wasn't fully inserted
> into the tray/rack. Might not be the case here, but could be worth checking
> out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430W - Comm & Nav Power from Separate |
Busses
It will work just fine with no power to the comm side, I do it all the time o
n my plane. It's set up to power the NAV side and one EFIS from a small aux b
att circuit so they don't reboot after start, and as a backup for loss of th
e main bus.
Tim
> On Jul 29, 2014, at 10:17 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aero
electric.com> wrote:
>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 430W - Comm & Nav Power from Separa
te Busses
>
>
> At 04:24 PM 7/26/2014, you wrote:
>
oo.com>
>
> 99,
> Using the AeroElectric Z-11 schematic, I plan to supply the Nav side of th
e Garmin 430W from the Essential buss and the Comm side from the Main buss. T
he Garmin install manual shows the comm and nav functions of the 430W to be p
owered by separate wires with separate circuit breakers. With my equipment l
ist I don't need the comm function of the 430W during battery only operation
s but I do need to power the nav side. In an alternator failed situation wit
h the master switch off and the Essential buss alternate switch on, any reas
on why the 430W nav (GPS & VOR/LOC) will not work with the comm side receivi
ng no power?
>
> Not that I know of . . .
>
> This excerpt from 430W install manual states
> that COM power is mere milliamps in receive
> and significant only in transmit.
>
>
> <32eb7351.jpg>
>
> How did your ENDURANCE load analysis come to suggest
> that Com functions need not be part of an extended
> battery-only ops scenario?
>
>
> Bob . . .
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