---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/14/14: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:41 AM - Re: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? (Werner Schneider) 2. 07:07 AM - Re: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? (Bill Watson) 3. 08:29 AM - Re: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? (Mark Milgrom) 4. 08:43 AM - Re: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:05 AM - Re: one-wire alternators- the subject that just won't die (Bill Boyd) 6. 10:24 AM - Re: one-wire alternators- the subject that just won't die (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 04:18 PM - ELT: 406 vs 121.5 (R&J. Curtis) 8. 05:54 PM - Re: ELT: 406 vs 121.5 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 05:59 PM - Re: ELT: 406 vs 121.5 (Eric Page) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:14 AM PST US From: Werner Schneider Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? And then you can have the "certified" one from Wichita http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/chargingport11-13044.php Not sure if that price does include the installation and paperwork :) Cheers Werner do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:15 AM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? Jeez! I like how Spruce says it's "backordered, ships in 5-10 business days", as if someone is going to keeps some of those in inventory. Ha! (do not archive) On 8/14/2014 9:40 AM, Werner Schneider wrote: > > > And then you can have the "certified" one from Wichita > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/chargingport11-13044.php > > Not sure if that price does include the installation and paperwork :) > > Cheers Werner > > do not archive > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:00 AM PST US From: Mark Milgrom Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? Hello all, I am not (yet) building a plane but have been following this particular topic with interest. Two days ago a new style USB connector was announced: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/small-reversible-usb-type-c-connector-finalized Here's a quote from the article: "/The USB Promoter Group announced today that it has finalized the design of the //USB Type-C plug //, a new type of USB plug that's designed to completely replace every size of all current USB connectors./" And here's the official press release: http://www.usb.org/press/USB_Type-C_Specification_Announcement_Final.pdf Note that this new USB connector is designed to supply up to 100 watts of power at 5 volts DC! To put that in perspective, today's iPhone draws about 5 watts when charging and an iPad draws about 12. But as battery capacity improves for handheld devices, manufacturers will no doubt invent a way to charge future batteries faster by drawing power at a higher rate. So, in order to "future proof" your cockpit with the flexibility to charge both today's and tomorrow's handheld electronic devices, it seems logical to me to NOT install one of today's USB ports. Instead, reconsider the idea of installing a cigarette lighter port or (gasp) even a 110 volt AC outlet somewhere in your cockpit, then plugging in the most appropriate off-the-shelf USB charger to suit your needs at that time. For example, here's a newly-announced 4-port USB charger for a cigarette lighter that can supply up to 12 watts per port: http://www.aukey.com/product/car-charger-cc01-black In conclusion: battery/charging technologies for handheld consumer electronic devices are evolving quickly, so don't lock yourself into a solution for your airplane that will not accommodate your future needs! Mark Milgrom On 8/14/14 9:40 AM, Werner Schneider wrote: > > > And then you can have the "certified" one from Wichita > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/chargingport11-13044.php > > Not sure if that price does include the installation and paperwork :) > > Cheers Werner > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel mounted USB power ports for Apple devices? At 08:40 AM 8/14/2014, you wrote: > >And then you can have the "certified" one from Wichita > >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/chargingport11-13044.php > >Not sure if that price does include the installation and paperwork :) Here's a classic demonstration of effects for burdens placed on TC aviation by the regulatory processes. If the commercial manifestation of this product can be retailed for $10, certainly a 'robust' version tailored to aviation could be retailed for $20. This presumes, of course, that that the two markets offer similar production opportunities. So even in aviation-volumes, it shouldn't need to sell for more than $60. I'm presently wrestling with a product that was added to the TC of some production airplanes 40+ years ago in a time when the demands for production and spares was perhaps 300 units a year. The device had a design fault that masqueraded as an intermittent failure in associated equipment. For decades. the manufacturer of the no-fault equipment was called into 'fix' the problem . . . seems that from time-to-time, they had demonstrable quality control issues . . . so it just seemed likely that the intermittent behaviors (especially on new airplanes) was their fault also. Every time the problem rose to the surface of problem stew pot, a tiger-team would assemble to gather data, analyse, deduce root and ancillary causes, and recommend remediation and make the problem go away. It wasn't until about 14 years ago that I was both a member of such a team for perhaps the third time in previous 20 years or so. At least I was now considered to be a tiger with some juice. I saw the deficiency of design and even offered to redesign the device for supplier at no charge. No joy. The product flow hand dwindled to much smaller numbers and the paper-thrashing costs for bringing a new product to market would have more than doubled the price to the OEM . . . It was one of those cases where the perceived expenses against returns just didn't instill warm-fuzzies in powers that be several layers up the chain of command. But the sum-total of costs over time continued to peck away at both OEM and consumer pocket books. Last winter, a rash of events in brand new airplanes emerged. I helped craft a no-cert band-aid which somebody decided to cut in half. The band-aid went on the airplane and everybody relaxed. The half-a- band-aid had a manufacturing cost on the order of $10 but the market price was $hundreds$ . . . Now, the half band-aid isn't working and a new pride of tigers are under the gun to 'fix it this time' but don't spend any more money on that piece of crap gizmo from the guys who actually have nothing to do with the real problem. This time, an opportunity presented for taking the already qualified guts out of one box and putting it into the enclosure for the problem child. Simply a matter of exploiting a 30-year old gizmo with a high volume production rate and long successful track record by making it form, fit and function replacement for the 40 year old gizmo that should have been replaced decades ago. There's a constellation of factors that have made it close to impossible for aviation to evolve with the agility and economics enjoyed by most other high-tech products. Suffice it to say, that the price of the 'approved' USB power supply is not terribly surprising. If this product surfaced say 30 years ago for the same price (adjusted for inflation) a dozen companies would have jumped in and kick-@$$ to compete with it and the price would go down. All of this and a million more examples were predicted over a century ago . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: one-wire alternators- the subject that just won't die From: Bill Boyd Charlie: I have the same question. Did you ever hear back and I somehow missed it here? -Bill Boyd On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Charlie England wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Please forgive me, but I need a refresher on why one-wire (internally > regulated) alternators are no longer recommended for a/c; even banned from > 'the Book'. I do remember (scratch that; know from experience) that if the > B-lead contactor opens while the alternator is under load, there can be a > 'load dump' (high voltage spike) issue that can kill the electronics (the > regulator) in the alternator. Makes sense. But if the only way the B-lead > contactor is allowed to open is due to an overvoltage fault, does it > matter? At that point, it's a given that the regulator is already toast, > and the entire alternator will be swapped out to fix it. Given the very > high reliability of modern automotive alternators, and that the only time > the B-lead contactor would need to open under load is during a true OV > fault event, what's the compelling reason to keep the 'not recommended' > philosophy? > > I've had a couple of different career paths involving running a soldering > iron & modifying stuff (both consumer and industrial electronics > maintenance), so I'm not 'afraid' to dig into an alternator to modify it > for external regulation. But I'm of the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' > school. > > I'd like to be educated on what I'm overlooking in terms of risk, failure > modes (fire?), etc. > > If it's reasonable to bring the one-wire alternator (with contactor style > OV protection)back into the mix, the next question will be about > integrating a backup dynamo style alternator without spending close to half > an Aviation Unit for the hardware. :-) > > Many thanks, > > Charle > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:03 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: one-wire alternators- the subject that just won't die At 11:04 AM 8/14/2014, you wrote: >Charlie: I have the same question. Did you ever hear back and I >somehow missed it here? > >-Bill Boyd See http://tinyurl.com/ndz7gtw Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:09 PM PST US From: "R&J. Curtis" Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT: 406 vs 121.5 I know that there have been some discussions on 121.5 Mhz vs 406 Mhz ELT's. My question is, what is the general consensus of opinion as to recommendations on a new experimental aircraft? I don't presently have an ELT, but will be purchasing one in the near future. Also interested in initial cost and cost of maintenance ie. batteries. What are the expectations that the 406 will be mandated, and when? Does the 406 have a large advantage? I know that it can pinpoint location much more accurately. Should I spring for the extra bucks for a 406? What great advantage do you receive when you pay $1800+ as apposed to $600? That should be enough questions for now! Roger Curtis ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:58 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT: 406 vs 121.5 At 06:16 PM 8/14/2014, you wrote: > >I know that there have been some discussions on 121.5 Mhz vs 406 Mhz >ELT's. My question is, what is the general consensus of opinion as >to recommendations on a new experimental aircraft? I don't >presently have an ELT, but will be purchasing one in the near >future. Also interested in initial cost and cost of maintenance ie. batteries. > >What are the expectations that the 406 will be mandated, and >when? Does the 406 have a large advantage? I know that it can >pinpoint location much more accurately. > >Should I spring for the extra bucks for a 406? What great advantage >do you receive when you pay $1800+ as apposed to $600? Are you seeing new 121.5/243Mhz ELTs for sale? I think part 91 prohibits them as new installations after 6-21-95 . . . Emacs! Then there is the matter of just how useful the older ELT will be in finding your wreck. See: http://tinyurl.com/kz93ymy I'm seeing ACK 406 ELTs with GPS data ports for 500-700 dollars. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT: 406 vs 121.5 From: Eric Page $1,800? The ACK E-04 406MHz ELT new installation kit is $589 at Aircraft Spruce: http://bit.ly/1lZI2q7 Eric > On Aug 14, 2014, at 4:16 PM, "R&J. Curtis" wrote: > I know that there have been some discussions on 121.5 Mhz vs 406 Mhz ELT's. My question is, what is the general consensus of opinion as to recommendations on a new experimental aircraft? I don't presently have an ELT, but will be purchasing one in the near future. Also interested in initial cost and cost of maintenance ie. batteries. > > What are the expectations that the 406 will be mandated, and when? Does the 406 have a large advantage? I know that it can pinpoint location much more accurately. > > Should I spring for the extra bucks for a 406? What great advantage do you receive when you pay $1800+ as apposed to $600? > > That should be enough questions for now! > > Roger Curtis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.