Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:22 AM - Re: Z-19 Function (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 07:36 AM - Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs (user9253)
3. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 01:20 PM - Re: PM alternator capacitors . . . (j. davis)
5. 01:27 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Justin Jones)
6. 03:32 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Charlie England)
7. 03:49 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Ken Ryan)
8. 05:20 PM - Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs (user9253)
9. 05:52 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:57 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 06:23 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Andy)
13. 08:31 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 09:18 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (Andy)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
At 07:29 PM 8/19/2014, you wrote:
><jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
>
>
>I have just the installation instructions at this time. Not sure if
>I have ever seen a wiring diagram for it.
Okay, let's back up. Describe your proposed engine/electrical
system. I think you mentioned an IO-360. You started this
thread with a query about Z-19 . . . which is not normally
suggested for a Lycoming. Do you plan one alternator or two?
If you were talking Z-19, then I deduce you're planning
on two batteries. You don't have detailed system integration
data on the engine electronics so it's also true that we
don't have energy demands data either.
How much electrical hardware have you installed already?
What holes have you drilled to mount switches?
Pending receipt of real electrical requirements for this
system, I'm leaning toward a single battery, two alternator
installation Z-13/8. Simpler, more reliable, lighter and
much lower cost of ownership.
After we see what the numbers are, let's work to understand
why Z-13/8 would NOT meet your needs for the elegant
solution.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs |
> Do I presume correctly that he has gone through the set up screen for managing
the output of this pin?
Yes, but even if set up incorrectly, I would not expect differing behavior depending
on power source to the D-180.
Bob, I gather from your response that it is highly unlikely that a faulty 22,000
microfarad capacitor is causing the flickering LEDs. You also said that it
is unlikely that the difficulty is a function of any normal behaviors designed
into the D-180. The question that only Dynon can answer is, is there a D-180
failure mode that can cause the dimmer output to flicker?
The problem with me trying to help someone halfway across the country is that
I can not actually see the symptoms. And any tests that I suggest might not
be fully understood or the results correctly interpreted.
It can be very frustrating for me and for an aircraft owner to not be able to
solve their electrical problem. But when I am able to walk someone through troubleshooting
and they solve the problem, it is very rewarding to me.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428875#428875
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs |
At 09:34 AM 8/20/2014, you wrote:
>
>
> > Do I presume correctly that he has gone through the set up screen
> for managing the output of this pin?
>
>Yes, but even if set up incorrectly, I would not expect differing
>behavior depending on power source to the D-180.
wasn't sure if there was a mode where the light was
expected to flash . . . as opposed to 'flicker' . . .
> Bob, I gather from your response that it is highly unlikely that
> a faulty 22,000 microfarad capacitor is causing the flickering
> LEDs. You also said that it is unlikely that the difficulty is a
> function of any normal behaviors designed into the D-180. The
> question that only Dynon can answer is, is there a D-180 failure
> mode that can cause the dimmer output to flicker?
agreed. see if the problem goes away with the alternator
off line . . .
> The problem with me trying to help someone halfway across the
> country is that I can not actually see the symptoms. And any tests
> that I suggest might not be fully understood or the results
> correctly interpreted.
> It can be very frustrating for me and for an aircraft owner to
> not be able to solve their electrical problem. But when I am able
> to walk someone through troubleshooting and they solve the problem,
> it is very rewarding to me.
understand . . . been working in similar venues for
25 years.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: PM alternator capacitors . . . |
Interesting. I see you say "*Publication of this data is not intended to
say that there is no value for including a capacitor . *So, in laymen's
terms, does this mean that you will amend your wiring diagrams that include
a 22,000 uF capicitor, such as Z20L? Can/should we remove installed caps
from our systems? Does/can that large cap have *adverse* effects? Thanks,
Bob, as always.
On 19 August 2014 10:53, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>
> * The legacy 22,000 uF capacitor installation on PM alternators is of
> limited utility for smoothing the output from PM alternator
> rectifier/regulators. Peek at the bus with a 'scope and do a
> capacitor-connected/disconnected comparison for confirmation. A casual
> observation with a 'scope will not produce much confidence that the
> capacitor is doing anything useful in the time domain. See:
> http://tinyurl.com/n5yd3vw <http://tinyurl.com/n5yd3vw>
> ======================== I was asked about the significance of the data
> cited above . . . and I beg your indulgence . . . it's not immediately
> obvious. I've re-posted the data package and encircled the pertinent data
> points: RMS and peak-to-peak voltage numbers cited at the edge of the
> 'scope screen. These Pk-Pk values speak to the greatest voltage excursions
> detected in the displayed plot . . . you can have some pretty high numbers
> here if the wave form shows even the shortest of 'spikes' . . . pk-to-pk
> numbers are not terribly significant in these plots. RMS speaks to the
> ENERGY in the noise. Note that for ALL conditions measured, there are no
> gross variations in measured noise configurations of capacitor size and
> whether or not a battery is on line. All measured values were well under
> those we are told to expect on the legacy 704/160 realm of DC power
> systems. Publication of this data is not intended to say that there is no
> value for including a capacitor . . . but the published narratives don't
> speak to any rationale other than noise mitigation. It may be that some
> clever designer perceived an improvement in performance for something other
> than noise. If so, I'm unaware of it. Bob . . . *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Regards, J.
-----------------------------
J. Davis,
email: jwd3ca at gmail dot com
*NIX consulting, Medical Imaging research programming
- Zenith STOL CH750 C-FJNJ: Jab 3300, Whilrwind GA prop, AeroCarb
- Sonex #325 (ex)C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder
- see these and more at http://cleco.ca
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
It is a Lyc IO-360. I had initially planned on a single alternator but I am open
to putting 2 on the plane. Is the only option one on the front of the engine
and one on the vacuum pad?
I have installed none of the hardware and just the rocker switches for ldg light,
bcn, nav lights and a split master/alternator switch.
I am waiting on word from Robert Paisley with the schematics. He seems a bit reluctant
to give actual schematics. Maybe because it is proprietary info. Not sure.
I do know that both ecus draw 2.4 amps total at high rpm. I still need the
coil and fuel pump numbers.
It sounds like the dual alternator single battery system just may be the way to
go here.
Thanks for the help!
Justin
On Aug 20, 2014, at 5:19, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> At 07:29 PM 8/19/2014, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have just the installation instructions at this time. Not sure if I have
ever seen a wiring diagram for it.
>
> Okay, let's back up. Describe your proposed engine/electrical
> system. I think you mentioned an IO-360. You started this
> thread with a query about Z-19 . . . which is not normally
> suggested for a Lycoming. Do you plan one alternator or two?
> If you were talking Z-19, then I deduce you're planning
> on two batteries. You don't have detailed system integration
> data on the engine electronics so it's also true that we
> don't have energy demands data either.
>
> How much electrical hardware have you installed already?
> What holes have you drilled to mount switches?
>
> Pending receipt of real electrical requirements for this
> system, I'm leaning toward a single battery, two alternator
> installation Z-13/8. Simpler, more reliable, lighter and
> much lower cost of ownership.
>
> After we see what the numbers are, let's work to understand
> why Z-13/8 would NOT meet your needs for the elegant
> solution.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
I haven't followed this discussion very closely, but...
Is Bob asking for actual schematics of the internals, or just complete
wiring diagrams? It's not too surprising that the mfgr is unwilling to
share the complete schematics of the devices; I doubt that you'd get them
from Garmin, King, etc, either.
Charlie
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
wrote:
> jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
>
> It is a Lyc IO-360. I had initially planned on a single alternator but I
> am open to putting 2 on the plane. Is the only option one on the front of
> the engine and one on the vacuum pad?
>
> I have installed none of the hardware and just the rocker switches for ldg
> light, bcn, nav lights and a split master/alternator switch.
>
> I am waiting on word from Robert Paisley with the schematics. He seems a
> bit reluctant to give actual schematics. Maybe because it is proprietary
> info. Not sure. I do know that both ecus draw 2.4 amps total at high rpm. I
> still need the coil and fuel pump numbers.
>
> It sounds like the dual alternator single battery system just may be the
> way to go here.
>
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Justin
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2014, at 5:19, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> >
> > At 07:29 PM 8/19/2014, you wrote:
> jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have just the installation instructions at this time. Not sure if I
> have ever seen a wiring diagram for it.
> >
> > Okay, let's back up. Describe your proposed engine/electrical
> > system. I think you mentioned an IO-360. You started this
> > thread with a query about Z-19 . . . which is not normally
> > suggested for a Lycoming. Do you plan one alternator or two?
> > If you were talking Z-19, then I deduce you're planning
> > on two batteries. You don't have detailed system integration
> > data on the engine electronics so it's also true that we
> > don't have energy demands data either.
> >
> > How much electrical hardware have you installed already?
> > What holes have you drilled to mount switches?
> >
> > Pending receipt of real electrical requirements for this
> > system, I'm leaning toward a single battery, two alternator
> > installation Z-13/8. Simpler, more reliable, lighter and
> > much lower cost of ownership.
> >
> > After we see what the numbers are, let's work to understand
> > why Z-13/8 would NOT meet your needs for the elegant
> > solution.
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
I also doubt that Garmin, King, etc. would provide a complete airplane
wiring diagram.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I haven't followed this discussion very closely, but...
> Is Bob asking for actual schematics of the internals, or just complete
> wiring diagrams? It's not too surprising that the mfgr is unwilling to
> share the complete schematics of the devices; I doubt that you'd get them
> from Garmin, King, etc, either.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 3:25 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
>> jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
>>
>> It is a Lyc IO-360. I had initially planned on a single alternator but I
>> am open to putting 2 on the plane. Is the only option one on the front of
>> the engine and one on the vacuum pad?
>>
>> I have installed none of the hardware and just the rocker switches for
>> ldg light, bcn, nav lights and a split master/alternator switch.
>>
>> I am waiting on word from Robert Paisley with the schematics. He seems a
>> bit reluctant to give actual schematics. Maybe because it is proprietary
>> info. Not sure. I do know that both ecus draw 2.4 amps total at high rpm. I
>> still need the coil and fuel pump numbers.
>>
>> It sounds like the dual alternator single battery system just may be the
>> way to go here.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the help!
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 5:19, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>> >
>> > At 07:29 PM 8/19/2014, you wrote:
>> jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I have just the installation instructions at this time. Not sure if I
>> have ever seen a wiring diagram for it.
>> >
>> > Okay, let's back up. Describe your proposed engine/electrical
>> > system. I think you mentioned an IO-360. You started this
>> > thread with a query about Z-19 . . . which is not normally
>> > suggested for a Lycoming. Do you plan one alternator or two?
>> > If you were talking Z-19, then I deduce you're planning
>> > on two batteries. You don't have detailed system integration
>> > data on the engine electronics so it's also true that we
>> > don't have energy demands data either.
>> >
>> > How much electrical hardware have you installed already?
>> > What holes have you drilled to mount switches?
>> >
>> > Pending receipt of real electrical requirements for this
>> > system, I'm leaning toward a single battery, two alternator
>> > installation Z-13/8. Simpler, more reliable, lighter and
>> > much lower cost of ownership.
>> >
>> > After we see what the numbers are, let's work to understand
>> > why Z-13/8 would NOT meet your needs for the elegant
>> > solution.
>> >
>> >
>> > Bob . . .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -
>> Electric-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs |
> wasn't sure if there was a mode where the light was
> expected to flash . . . as opposed to 'flicker' . . .
Yes, when an input to the D-180 is out of limits, the D-180 flashes an on-screen
warning and also flashes the external LEDs connected to the PWM dimmer pin.
However, I asked the RV-12 owner if the LEDs were flashing an alarm or just flickering.
He said flickering.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428919#428919
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
At 03:25 PM 8/20/2014, you wrote:
><jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
>
>It is a Lyc IO-360. I had initially planned on a single alternator
>but I am open to putting 2 on the plane. Is the only option one on
>the front of the engine and one on the vacuum pad?
That's the usual configuration. Most airplane
engine accessory cases are fitted with AND20000
vacuum pump pads . . . that get covered when
a vacuum system is not installed.
This is the easiest place to install a second
alternator. At the moment, the SD-8 (3 pound,
8A) or SD-20 (6-pound, 20A) are the options.
We would LIKE to use the SD-8 if it makes
sense.
>I have installed none of the hardware and just the rocker switches
>for ldg light, bcn, nav lights and a split master/alternator switch.
>I am waiting on word from Robert Paisley with the schematics. He
>seems a bit reluctant to give actual schematics. Maybe because it is
>proprietary info. Not sure. I do know that both ecus draw 2.4 amps
>total at high rpm. I still need the coil and fuel pump numbers.
Okay, what we need from him is system integration
data. There are x-number of power input leads to
the system. How many must be powered up at any one
time for the engine to run and how much current is
drawn by each input?
>It sounds like the dual alternator single battery system just may be
>the way to go here.
Absolutely . . . in fact, it's QUITE practical to
consider one battery and one alternator . . .
ALL of those decisions are predicated on knowing
minimum ENERGY required of the components
of the electrically dependent engine combined
with ENERGY needed to operated minimal panel
equipment for what ever YOU decide is your
battery-only endurance target.
This is why I've hammered on the notion that doing
a load analysis for the proposed system is the
#1 task in choosing an architecture and sizing
components.
There's a good reason why we do this in certified
airplanes . . . a reason that is no less valid
in an experimental airplane.
Sounds like this is a capable system that exploits
a lot of lessons learned from the automotive
experience with ECFI . . . but no matter how
GOOD his equipment is, he has a DUTY to tell
the customer everything needed to craft the
elegant electrical system and write the logical
pilot's operating instructions for both NORMAL
and ABNORMAL operations.
Don't cut any more holes for switches until
we have GOOD data for deciding what those
switches are and from whence they get power.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
At 05:48 PM 8/20/2014, you wrote:
>I also doubt that Garmin, King, etc. would
>provide a complete airplane wiring diagram.
No, they don't . . . in fact, they should NOT. Garmin tried it
once and it got them a lot of grief . . .
But all the big guys deliver hardware to the OEM air-framers
the data we're asking for from EFII is no more than Garmin
or King would have to offer before they even walked in
the door.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Dynon D-180 & flickering LEDs |
At 07:18 PM 8/20/2014, you wrote:
>
>
> > wasn't sure if there was a mode where the light was
> > expected to flash . . . as opposed to 'flicker' . . .
>
>Yes, when an input to the D-180 is out of limits, the D-180 flashes
>an on-screen warning and also flashes the external LEDs connected to
>the PWM dimmer pin. However, I asked the RV-12 owner if the LEDs
>were flashing an alarm or just flickering. He said flickering.
Okay, make sure it's not the fixture or power
supplied to the fixture. Do the experiment with
just a light bulb and 12v battery to see that
the D-180 performs as advertised with those
to variables controlled.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
I too have Robert's EFII's dual electronic ignition (which has been great so far!)
on my RV7. I didn't start out with this mindset, but with an electrically
dependent ignition system and electrically dependent EFIS systems the only architecture
that made sense was Bob's Z13/8. I simply hooked 1 ECU and coil to the
EBUS and the other ECU and Coil to the Batt Bus.
I believe Bob challenges you to find a better designed system than the examples
in the aeroelectric connection, I'm a novice and didn't even come close. I did
try to justify a small backup battery system, than a dual battery system but
in the end the end Z13/8 gave way more redundancy, utility, checks and balances,
and bang for the buck than the others. Think through every failure scenario
of the various electrical systems, in addition think through the preflight checks
(how do you know that second battery will power your essential electronics
for 30 minutes when you need it?) of the backup systems and maintenance. The
choice will be easy.
I couldn't be happier with the idiot proof redundancy of the electrical architecture
Bob gave us in Z13/8.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 20, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> It is a Lyc IO-360. I had initially planned on a single alternator but I am open
to putting 2 on the plane. Is the only option one on the front of the engine
and one on the vacuum pad?
>
> I have installed none of the hardware and just the rocker switches for ldg light,
bcn, nav lights and a split master/alternator switch.
>
> I am waiting on word from Robert Paisley with the schematics. He seems a bit
reluctant to give actual schematics. Maybe because it is proprietary info. Not
sure. I do know that both ecus draw 2.4 amps total at high rpm. I still need
the coil and fuel pump numbers.
>
> It sounds like the dual alternator single battery system just may be the way
to go here.
>
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> Justin
>
>
>> On Aug 20, 2014, at 5:19, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> At 07:29 PM 8/19/2014, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have just the installation instructions at this time. Not sure if I have
ever seen a wiring diagram for it.
>>
>> Okay, let's back up. Describe your proposed engine/electrical
>> system. I think you mentioned an IO-360. You started this
>> thread with a query about Z-19 . . . which is not normally
>> suggested for a Lycoming. Do you plan one alternator or two?
>> If you were talking Z-19, then I deduce you're planning
>> on two batteries. You don't have detailed system integration
>> data on the engine electronics so it's also true that we
>> don't have energy demands data either.
>>
>> How much electrical hardware have you installed already?
>> What holes have you drilled to mount switches?
>>
>> Pending receipt of real electrical requirements for this
>> system, I'm leaning toward a single battery, two alternator
>> installation Z-13/8. Simpler, more reliable, lighter and
>> much lower cost of ownership.
>>
>> After we see what the numbers are, let's work to understand
>> why Z-13/8 would NOT meet your needs for the elegant
>> solution.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
At 08:23 PM 8/20/2014, you wrote:
>
>I too have Robert's EFII's dual electronic ignition (which has been
>great so far!) on my RV7.
Were you offered any more documentation than the
down-loadable 'installation manuals' we've been
praying over?
> I didn't start out with this mindset, but with an electrically
> dependent ignition system and electrically dependent EFIS systems
> the only architecture that made sense was Bob's Z13/8. I simply
> hooked 1 ECU and coil to the EBUS and the other ECU and Coil to the Batt Bus.
Yup . . . that works.
I'd probably put 1/2 the equipment on the
battery bus and the other half on the main bus.
During alternator-out operations, you load-shed
half of the engine support . . .which is readily
available by simply turning the master switch back
on. The only time this would be necessary is if
you suffered DUAL failures of pretty good hardware
in any single tank full of fuel . . . exceedingly
unlikely.
>I believe Bob challenges you to find a better designed system than
>the examples in the aeroelectric connection . . .
Sure. The Z-figures didn't start finding their way
into the book until about Rev 4 or so. They marched
up to Z-10 getting refined as we went. Somewhere
along the line, I dumped Z-1 thru Z-10 in favor of
a total replacement that began with Z-11. I wanted
to set the older iterations aside. As new figures
are added, I'll fill in the numbers below Z-11.
But you're right. Unlike our brothers flying the
TC Iron, we're free to EVOLVE architectures in
the quest for the elegant solution and TAILOR
architectures to the airplane/mission.
>I couldn't be happier with the idiot proof redundancy of the
>electrical architecture Bob gave us in Z13/8.
You guys (or at least your predecessors) on
the List played major roles in the development
of the Z-figures. It's called, "Spontaneous
order in the free market exchange of value."
Works good every time it's tried. With few exceptions,
I believe Z-13/8 offers system reliability
that equals or exceeds that offered to many
pilots of TC twins . . . but at a tiny fraction
of the cost and complexity.
What we've accomplished here is something for
which the OBAM aviation community can be proud.
Proven recipes for success driven NOT not by
the nightmares of bureaucratic worriers but
by the quest for an elegant solution. Andy's
endorsement is a validation of that idea.
Thank you sir!
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Z-19 Function |
> Were you offered any more documentation than the
> down-loadable 'installation manuals' we've been
> praying over?
Robert's customer service concerning the ignition system has been more than excellent,
I believe the schematics you guys are after are those concerning his "bus
manager." I don't know much about it other than what the website states, I
found Bob's Z13/8 fit my aircraft better.
Hardly load shedding with a full EFIS system/GPS/mapping/engine moniter and electronic
ignition system burning way less than 8 amps from the SD8 as long as there
is gas in the tanks....If it comes to that...
> Thank you sir!
>
>
> Bob . . .
No Sir, THANK YOU!
Andy
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 20, 2014, at 10:29 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
>
> At 08:23 PM 8/20/2014, you wrote:
>>
>> I too have Robert's EFII's dual electronic ignition (which has been great so
far!) on my RV7.
>
> Were you offered any more documentation than the
> down-loadable 'installation manuals' we've been
> praying over?
>
>
>> I didn't start out with this mindset, but with an electrically dependent ignition
system and electrically dependent EFIS systems the only architecture that
made sense was Bob's Z13/8. I simply hooked 1 ECU and coil to the EBUS and the
other ECU and Coil to the Batt Bus.
>
> Yup . . . that works.
>
> Were you offered any more documentation than the
> down-loadable 'installation manuals' we've been
> praying over? failures of pretty good hardware
> in any single tank full of fuel . . . exceedingly
> unlikely.
>
>> I believe Bob challenges you to find a better designed system than the examples
in the aeroelectric connection . . .
>
> Sure. The Z-figures didn't start finding their way
> into the book until about Rev 4 or so. They marched
> up to Z-10 getting refined as we went. Somewhere
> along the line, I dumped Z-1 thru Z-10 in favor of
> a total replacement that began with Z-11. I wanted
> to set the older iterations aside. As new figures
> are added, I'll fill in the numbers below Z-11.
>
> But you're right. Unlike our brothers flying the
> TC Iron, we're free to EVOLVE architectures in
> the quest for the elegant solution and TAILOR
> architectures to the airplane/mission.
>
>> I couldn't be happier with the idiot proof redundancy of the electrical architecture
Bob gave us in Z13/8.
>
> You guys (or at least your predecessors) on
> the List played major roles in the development
> of the Z-figures. It's called, "Spontaneous
> order in the free market exchange of value."
> Works good every time it's tried. With few exceptions,
> I believe Z-13/8 offers system reliability
> that equals or exceeds that offered to many
> pilots of TC twins . . . but at a tiny fraction
> of the cost and complexity.
>
> What we've accomplished here is something for
> which the OBAM aviation community can be proud.
> Proven recipes for success driven NOT not by
> the nightmares of bureaucratic worriers but
> by the quest for an elegant solution. Andy's
> endorsement is a validation of that idea.
> Thank you sir!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
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