AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 08/25/14


Total Messages Posted: 20



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:46 AM - Re: Z-19 Function (Ed meyer)
     2. 08:29 AM - Re: Z-19 Function (Ken Ryan)
     3. 08:34 AM - Re: Z-19 Function (Justin Jones)
     4. 09:25 AM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Bill Allen)
     5. 09:37 AM - Re: Z-19 Function (Ken)
     6. 09:38 AM - Re: Z-19 Function (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 09:52 AM - Re: Z-19 Function (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 10:09 AM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Charlie England)
     9. 10:41 AM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 10:59 AM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Rob Housman)
    11. 11:27 AM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Bill Allen)
    12. 12:04 PM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 01:08 PM - Carling switch resistance for micro currents? (B Tomm)
    14. 01:35 PM - Re: Carling switch resistance for micro currents? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 01:45 PM - Re: Carling switch resistance for micro currents? (Bob McCallum)
    16. 01:54 PM - Re: Carling switch resistance for micro currents? (Jeff Luckey)
    17. 02:26 PM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Charlie England)
    18. 02:28 PM - Re: Carling switch resistance for micro currents? (B Tomm)
    19. 03:21 PM - Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator. (Michael Orth)
    20. 04:25 PM - Re: Z-19 Function (user9253)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:46:48 AM PST US
    From: "Ed meyer" <ed.meyer@outlook.com>
    Subject: Re: Z-19 Function
    >I had to conclude that it just seemed cool. So, with that, laziness >kicked in and I found a sense of relief that I didn't have to >figure out another sub-system for my one-off Glasair/Franklin CDI >ignition, EFI, installation. Thanks for the insight John but I am still not quite getting the downside of the automation other than a bit more complexity. My emergency situation was different than yours in that it was not just after departure but rather after a power off let down and the power would not come back up with the throttle. And, for me =98cool=99 has nothing to do with it. In my emergency experience I know my thinking was not clear at the time therefore my performance was not up to par (I would like to think I would do better but I know from experience I didn=99t). I am just thinking that the automation could help to eliminate a step that I would need to do manually IF I remember to do it while my mind is somewhat jumbled with stuff like best glide speed, where to land if I can=99t get it running again, etc. I found that I liked the automation idea and would not have thought of it myself had I not read that it is a function built into the Bus Manager that EFII offers. Having said that, I also like a lot about Bob=99s Z13/8 system. Ed


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:29:40 AM PST US
    From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Z-19 Function
    I think the auto switching is a great idea in theory. I also understand Bob Nuckoll's comment that it needs to be evaluated to determine whether what is gained is offset by what is lost. My problem is that I lack the expertise to do that evaluation. Bob Nuckoll's and Robert Paisley are both clearly well qualified individuals. Each has accomplished a great deal in the field of aviation. If I understand Bob Nuckoll's correctly, he feels that added failure modes outweigh any benefits. On the other hand, Robert Paisley is confident enough that he included it in the very component that he designed to insure that the prop keeps turning in an electrically dependent engine. Tis a puzzlement. Ken On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Ed meyer <ed.meyer@outlook.com> wrote: > >I had to conclude that it just seemed cool. So, with that, laziness > >kicked in and I found a sense of relief that I didn't have to >figure ou t > another sub-system for my one-off Glasair/Franklin CDI >ignition, EFI, > installation. > > > Thanks for the insight John but I am still not quite getting the downside > of the automation other than a bit more complexity. My emergency situati on > was different than yours in that it was not just after departure but rath er > after a power off let down and the power would not come back up with the > throttle. And, for me =98cool=99 has nothing to do with it. I n my emergency > experience I know my thinking was not clear at the time therefore my > performance was not up to par (I would like to think I would do better bu t > I know from experience I didn=99t). I am just thinking that the aut omation > could help to eliminate a step that I would need to do manually IF I > remember to do it while my mind is somewhat jumbled with stuff like best > glide speed, where to land if I can=99t get it running again, etc. I found > that I liked the automation idea and would not have thought of it myself > had I not read that it is a function built into the Bus Manager that EFII > offers. Having said that, I also like a lot about Bob=99s Z13/8 sys tem. > > Ed > > > * > =========== www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:34:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z-19 Function
    From: Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
    The redundancy for the fuel pump can easily be built using a simple circuit w ith the use of a fuel pressure safety switch used by the automotive racing c ommunity. The one below is set to 30 psi and would work well for the efii sy stem. With the use of a relay and this switch, you can have the standby pump automatically turn on if the primary pump pressure drops below 30 psi. JEGS Performance Products#555-11206 Fuel Pressure Safety Switch Preset to 30 psi On Aug 25, 2014, at 6:45, "Ed meyer" <ed.meyer@outlook.com> wrote: > >I had to conclude that it just seemed cool. So, with that, laziness >kick ed in and I found a sense of relief that I didn't have to >figure out anothe r sub-system for my one-off Glasair/Franklin CDI >ignition, EFI, installatio n. > > Thanks for the insight John but I am still not quite getting the downside o f the automation other than a bit more complexity. My emergency situation w as different than yours in that it was not just after departure but rather a fter a power off let down and the power would not come back up with the thro ttle. And, for me =98cool=99 has nothing to do with it. In my em ergency experience I know my thinking was not clear at the time therefore my performance was not up to par (I would like to think I would do better but I know from experience I didn=99t). I am just thinking that the automat ion could help to eliminate a step that I would need to do manually IF I rem ember to do it while my mind is somewhat jumbled with stuff like best glide s peed, where to land if I can=99t get it running again, etc. I found th at I liked the automation idea and would not have thought of it myself had I not read that it is a function built into the Bus Manager that EFII offers. Having said that, I also like a lot about Bob=99s Z13/8 system. > > Ed > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:25:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    From: Bill Allen <billallensworld@gmail.com>
    Hi Mike, Haven't heard from you in a while - are you going to be at the LAA Rally this weekend? How's the Ez coming along? best, Bill On 9 April 2014 16:44, MikeDunlop <mdunlop001@aol.com> wrote: > > I'm finishing off my electrical system in a Long-EZ that includes the > SD-8, exactly as per the Z13/8 and have to make a final choice of the main > alternator. > > For cost and availability locally I've decided to go with either a Lucas > 60amp or 70amp. The advice I'm seeking is regarding the regulator, these > units have an internal regulator, so do I keep the internal regulator? > (remember the Z13/8 has the OV protection between the regulator and the > bus) or do I do a conversion to use a B&C external regulator (I have a > spare one I could use). > > I've read many, many threads on OV and runaway alternators etc. and am not > too sure if using the internal regulator in the Z13/8 architecture will > give me complete protection. > > Regards > > Mike Dunlop (UK) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421821#421821 > > -- Bill Allen LongEz160 N99BA FD51 CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:37:56 AM PST US
    From: Ken <kleh@dialupatcost.ca>
    Subject: Re: Z-19 Function
    Providing you are notified when the system activates, and providing the system can not fail in any manner such that it blows the fuse or prevents manual pump activation (difficult to achieve), then a remaining risk is that the auto system increases the chance of the pump activating during a crash. Auto pump shutdown when the engine stops is considered a safety issue and all cars have that feature. I don't have strong feelings either way and could fairly easily add a comparator to my existing pressure sensor but I have no plans to do so. For EFI pumps I believe that a larger safety increase is achieved just by using oem automotive filter socks in the fuel tank (or in the header tank in my case) to significantly reduce pump failures. Ken On 25/08/2014 11:32 AM, Justin Jones wrote: > The redundancy for the fuel pump can easily be built using a simple > circuit with the use of a fuel pressure safety switch used by the > automotive racing community. The one below is set to 30 psi and would > work well for the efii system. With the use of a relay and this switch, > you can have the standby pump automatically turn on if the primary pump > pressure drops below 30 psi. > > JEGS Performance Products#555-11206 > # Fuel Pressure Safety SwitchPreset to 30 psi >


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:38:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z-19 Function
    At 10:28 AM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >I think the auto switching is a great idea in theory. I also >understand Bob Nuckoll's comment that it needs to be evaluated to >determine whether what is gained is offset by what is lost. My >problem is that I lack the expertise to do that evaluation. At 10:28 AM 8/25/2014, you wrote: I think the auto switching is a great idea in theory. I also understand Bob Nuckoll's comment that it needs to be evaluated to determine whether what is gained is offset by what is lost. My problem is that I lack the expertise to do that evaluation. I suggest that you DO have that expertise . . . Consider the loss of engine at low altitude due to failure of main fuel pump. Question: Does checklist call for running both main and aux pumps during low altitude ops? If not, should it? Upgrading the level of technology in your airplane is driven by a reason. Obviously, a single-pilot IFR operation is less risky if the airplane is fitted with an autopilot. Risk also goes down when primary flight instruments (gyros) were backed up with secondary instruments (needle-ball-airspeed). This is part of the failure modes effects analysis that drives the setting requirements, training, practice and maintenance that go to reduction of risk. What was root cause in the case of the 'missing fuel pump'? Adding an autopilot to offset pilot work-load for managing a constellation of tasks is a no-brainer. But hundreds of thousands of airplanes have been fitted with multiple fuel pumps for nearly a century . . . none of which were operated by anything more than some switch on the panel that was managed (along with lots of other things) by pilot inputs cited in the POH and/or checklist. Okay, what are the work-load circumstances when the pumps are to be switched on or off? ON before takeoff and OFF after reaching comfortable altitude . . . -AND- ON before landing and OFF after leaving the active runway. The thrust of my reasoning goes to abrogation of duties that pilots have been expected to perform for decades. What new taxation of a pilot's time, attention and resources drives first a decision to automate the fuel pump management in the first place . . . and then recommend it to others as a good and useful thing to do? "Aw shucks Nuckolls . . . it's JUST the fuel pumps . . ." Agreed . . . but if JUST the fuel pumps can be mis-managed contrary to POH or checklist, are there OTHER features of legacy pilot duties at similar risk? It isn't JUST the fuel pumps. It's about systems integration and operation that goes to the simplest, lightest, lowest cost method for meeting requirements while reducing unrealistic taxation of pilot time and attention. It would be unrealistic to recommend that pilots carry scientific calculators and perform the spherical trigonometry to navigate . . . but entirely rational to push those tasks off onto a $200 hand-held GPS. At the other end of the spectrum, consider the data points from a century of lessons learned for operating that second pump switch with electro-smarts. That new, "time saving, safety enhancement" now needs to be fitted with failure alarms and/or a methodology for pre-flight testing. Whoops! There's that pesky checklist again. Seems that a two-pump system should be checked for integrity during start up with the aux pump left ON until comfortable altitude is achieved. What are the hazards for leaving an AUX pump ON? Back in the day, many aux pumps were the Bendix 'thumpers' that featured a coil operated through hard contacts that arced and wore out. Today, those pumps have been replace with all solid state devices having essentially ZERO wear. http://tinyurl.com/knsz7y9 If the aux pump is operated in parallel with a main pump for some phases of operation, then risk for having the AUX pump on all the time are probably zero. But you STILL need to independently confirm operation of each pump during pre-flight which is a check-list driven activity. This goes beyond 'keeping the engine running'. It goes to reduction of risk with an optimal marriage of pilot and machine. A machine that generally performs as advertised every time when operated per the instruction manual. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:52:23 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z-19 Function
    At 10:32 AM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >The redundancy for the fuel pump can easily be built using a simple >circuit with the use of a fuel pressure safety switch used by the >automotive racing community. The one below is set to 30 psi and >would work well for the efii system. With the use of a relay and >this switch, you can have the standby pump automatically turn on if >the primary pump pressure drops below 30 psi. I've never experienced a main pump failure but I've run many a tank dry. The time that it took to move a valve didn't cost a couple hundred feet of altitude. In other words, if your check list already calls for operation of both pumps at low altitude, what hazard is being mitigated with auto-switching at higher altitudes? Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:09:30 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    Hi Mike, You do know that on this side of the pond, Lucas is known as 'The Prince of Darkness', right? ;-) Internally regulated alternators and their OV protection scheme have been deleted from the current version of 'the book'. But, if you eliminate the separate 'aircraft style' separate switching of the alternator, then you can use Bob's OV module to control a separate contactor, in series with the B lead. Bob & I had a recent discussion about this very issue, titled something like, 'the question that won't die'. Charlie > > On 9 April 2014 16:44, MikeDunlop <mdunlop001@aol.com > <mailto:mdunlop001@aol.com>> wrote: > > <mdunlop001@aol.com <mailto:mdunlop001@aol.com>> > > I'm finishing off my electrical system in a Long-EZ that includes > the SD-8, exactly as per the Z13/8 and have to make a final choice > of the main alternator. > > For cost and availability locally I've decided to go with either a > Lucas 60amp or 70amp. The advice I'm seeking is regarding the > regulator, these units have an internal regulator, so do I keep > the internal regulator? (remember the Z13/8 has the OV protection > between the regulator and the bus) or do I do a conversion to use > a B&C external regulator (I have a spare one I could use). > > I've read many, many threads on OV and runaway alternators etc. > and am not too sure if using the internal regulator in the Z13/8 > architecture will give me complete protection. > > Regards > > Mike Dunlop (UK) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421821#421821 > > > ========== > - > Electric-List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ========== > FORUMS - > _blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > -- > Bill Allen > LongEz160 N99BA FD51 > CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ >


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:41:57 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    At 11:24 AM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >Hi Mike, > >Haven't heard from you in a while - are you going to be at the LAA >Rally this weekend? > >How's the Ez coming along? > >best, > >Bill > > >On 9 April 2014 16:44, MikeDunlop ><<mailto:mdunlop001@aol.com>mdunlop001@aol.com> wrote: ><<mailto:mdunlop001@aol.com>mdunlop001@aol.com> > >I'm finishing off my electrical system in a Long-EZ that includes >the SD-8, exactly as per the Z13/8 and have to make a final choice >of the main alternator. > >For cost and availability locally I've decided to go with either a >Lucas 60amp or 70amp. The advice I'm seeking is regarding the >regulator, these units have an internal regulator, so do I keep the >internal regulator? (remember the Z13/8 has the OV protection >between the regulator and the bus) or do I do a conversion to use a >B&C external regulator (I have a spare one I could use). > >I've read many, many threads on OV and runaway alternators etc. and >am not too sure if using the internal regulator in the Z13/8 >architecture will give me complete protection. First, why so large an alternator? Can tolerate or do you NEED that weight aft? I've seen a lot of EZs with oversized batteries up front . . . not for energy contained but for ballast. If you NEED ballast then it might as well be useful ballast. Can you put your hands on an Nipon-Denso alternator in the 40A class? This is probably MUCH more power than you'll ever need and among the lightest of options. What ARE your energy requirements? Have you accomplished a load analysis? Keep in mind that the SD-8 series alternators are products that BIRTHED B&C Specialty Products when Bill delivered to a request from Burt Rutan for a lightweight MAIN alternator. There ARE ways to live with a built in regulator in ANY of the Z-figures . . . let us first thrash through the ideas and facts that drive real requirements. Give us a list of electro-whizzies you've installed and what their CONTINUOUS current drains are . . . Bob . . .


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:59:25 AM PST US
    From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
    Subject: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    and we have bumper stickers that say Why do the English drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators! (Yes, I know. Lucas does not make refrigerators.) Do not archive. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics in progress From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:10 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z13/8 Main Alternator. Hi Mike, You do know that on this side of the pond, Lucas is known as 'The Prince of Darkness', right? ;-) Internally regulated alternators and their OV protection scheme have been deleted from the current version of 'the book'. But, if you eliminate the separate 'aircraft style' separate switching of the alternator, then you can use Bob's OV module to control a separate contactor, in series with the B lead. Bob & I had a recent discussion about this very issue, titled something like, 'the question that won't die'. Charlie On 9 April 2014 16:44, MikeDunlop <mdunlop001@aol.com> wrote: <mdunlop001@aol.com> I'm finishing off my electrical system in a Long-EZ that includes the SD-8, exactly as per the Z13/8 and have to make a final choice of the main alternator. For cost and availability locally I've decided to go with either a Lucas 60amp or 70amp. The advice I'm seeking is regarding the regulator, these units have an internal regulator, so do I keep the internal regulator? (remember the Z13/8 has the OV protection between the regulator and the bus) or do I do a conversion to use a B&C external regulator (I have a spare one I could use). I've read many, many threads on OV and runaway alternators etc. and am not too sure if using the internal regulator in the Z13/8 architecture will give me complete protection. Regards Mike Dunlop (UK) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421821#421821 - Electric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List FORUMS - _blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Bill Allen LongEz160 N99BA FD51 CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:27:12 AM PST US
    From: Bill Allen <billallensworld@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    And "Why did the British fail in the personal PC market?" "Because they couldn't stop them leaking oil....." Bill Allen LongEz N99BA FD51 Cozy4 G-BYLZ. EGBJ Sent from my iPad > On 25 Aug 2014, at 19:56, "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com> wrote: > > =C3=A2=82=AC=C2and we have bumper stickers that say=C3=A2=82=AC=C2 > > Why do the English drink warm beer? > Because they have Lucas refrigerators! > > (Yes, I know. Lucas does not make refrigerators.) > > > Do not archive. > > > Best regards, > > Rob Housman > Irvine,=C3=82 California > Europa XS > Rotax 914 > S/N A070 > Airframe complete > Avionics in progress > > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:10 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z13/8 Main Alternator. > > Hi Mike, > > You do know that on this side of the pond, Lucas is known as 'The Prince o f Darkness', right? ;-) > > Internally regulated alternators and their OV protection scheme have been d eleted from the current version of 'the book'. But, if you eliminate the sep arate 'aircraft style' separate switching of the alternator, then you can us e Bob's OV module to control a separate contactor, in series with the B lead . > > Bob & I had a recent discussion about this very issue, titled something li ke, 'the question that won't die'. > > Charlie > > > > > On 9 April 2014 16:44, MikeDunlop <mdunlop001@aol.com> wrote: > > I'm finishing off my electrical system in a Long-EZ that includes the SD-8 , exactly as per the Z13/8 and have to make a final choice of the main alter nator. > > For cost and availability locally I've decided to go with either a Lucas 6 0amp or 70amp. The advice I'm seeking is regarding the regulator, these unit s have an internal regulator, so do I keep the internal regulator? (remember the Z13/8 has the OV protection between the regulator and the bus) or do I d o a conversion to use a B&C external regulator (I have a spare one I could u se). > > I've read many, many threads on OV and runaway alternators etc. and am not too sure if using the internal regulator in the Z13/8 architecture will giv e me complete protection. > > Regards > > Mike Dunlop (UK) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421821#421821 > > > > > > > > ========== > - > Electric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroEl ectric-List > ========== > FORUMS - > _blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > > -- > Bill Allen > LongEz160 N99BA FD51 > CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > http://forums.matronics.com=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - List Contribution Web generous =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 -Matt http://www.matronic s.com/c > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:04:20 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    At 01:25 PM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >And > >"Why did the British fail in the personal PC market?" > >"Because they couldn't stop them leaking oil....." Come on guys . . . Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:08:39 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Carling switch resistance for micro currents?
    Hi Bob, Last night I was metering a circuit (for total resistance) not including the load at the end of the wire. The circuit consists of about 10 feet of 18AWG wire, an ATC fuse, fuse block and a carling SPST switch all obtained from B&C, and two alligator test leads. I was surprised to find the meter (my trusty Fluke) read several megohms when I closed the switch. I was expecting to see something less than 5 ohms (probably less than one). It would appear that there is quite a high resistance when only the very small current of the metering circuit is passing through the switch. Is this normal? Note: The meter showed 0.2 ohms with the test leads shorted so the meter seems to be functioning correctly. Bevan


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:35:29 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Carling switch resistance for micro currents?
    At 03:05 PM 8/25/2014, you wrote: Hi Bob, Last night I was metering a circuit (for total resistance) not including the load at the end of the wire. The circuit consists of about 10 feet of 18AWG wire, an ATC fuse, fuse block and a carling SPST switch all obtained from B&C, and two alligator test leads. I was surprised to find the meter (my trusty Fluke) read several megohms when I closed the switch. I was expecting to see something less than 5 ohms (probably less than one). It would appear that there is quite a high resistance when only the very small current of the metering circuit is passing through the switch. Is this normal? Note: The meter showed 0.2 ohms with the test leads shorted so the meter seems to be functioning correctly. Okay, you've cited a number of devices in series all of which feature several 'metallic' joints normally expected to be a few milliohms each. Divide and conquer. Clip the ohmmeter to the fuseblock treaded power input post and then march downstream with the other lead looking for the first instance of "too much" resistance. Somewhere along the way you're going to find a bad crimp or perhaps a switch with contacts so 'self-worn' that they need to be cycled clean. Is the ship's battery available to this circuit? Put a sacrificial 20A fuse in the fuseholder, dead short the far end of the wire to ground then 'rattle' the toggle until the fuse blows. Pop a couple of fuses. Then put the proper fuse back in and march off smartly forward. I've used a similar technique to clean the shelf- fuzz off of several high dollar, mil-spec switches in biz-jets. In both cases, the switches had never been asked to SWITCH a significant load for years. Do a little arc-therapy on them and they good to go for another 5-10 years. Bob . . .


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:45:00 PM PST US
    From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Carling switch resistance for micro currents?
    If you are actually measuring "several megohms" then 1=3B the switch is op en=2C 2=3B the fuse is blown=2C or 3=3B one of the connections is not attac hed. Several megohms is what you would see holding the meter leads=2C one i n each of your hands=2C with no metallic electrical circuit attached. You s hould be seeing less than an ohm or so with the circuit as you described it . Bob McC > From: fvalarm@rapidnet.net > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Carling switch resistance for micro currents? > Date: Mon=2C 25 Aug 2014 13:05:51 -0700 > > > > Hi Bob=2C > > Last night I was metering a circuit (for total resistance) not including the > load at the end of the wire. The circuit consists of about 10 feet of 18 AWG > wire=2C an ATC fuse=2C fuse block and a carling SPST switch all obtained from > B&C=2C and two alligator test leads. I was surprised to find the meter (m y > trusty Fluke) read several megohms when I closed the switch. I was > expecting to see something less than 5 ohms (probably less than one). It > would appear that there is quite a high resistance when only the very sma ll > current of the metering circuit is passing through the switch. Is this > normal? > > Note: The meter showed 0.2 ohms with the test leads shorted so the meter > seems to be functioning correctly. > > Bevan > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 01:54:36 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Luckey <jluckey@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Re: Carling switch resistance for micro currents?
    Bevan,=0A=0Awhat you are describing is not normal.- The resistance thru t he closed switch should be the same as when you short the test leads togeth er.=0A=0A-Jeff=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, August 25, 2014 1:23 PM, B Tomm <fvala rm@rapidnet.net> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A--> AeroElectric-List message posted by : "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>=0A=0A=0AHi Bob,=0A=0ALast night I was met ering a circuit (for total resistance) not including the=0Aload at the end of the wire.- The circuit consists of about 10 feet of 18AWG=0Awire, an A TC fuse, fuse block and a carling SPST switch all obtained from=0AB&C, and two alligator test leads. I was surprised to find the meter (my=0Atrusty Fl uke) read several megohms when I closed the switch.- I was=0Aexpecting to see something less than 5 ohms (probably less than one).- It=0Awould app ear that there is quite a high resistance when only the very small=0Acurren t of the metering circuit is passing through the switch.- Is this=0Anorma l?=0A=0ANote:- The meter showed 0.2 ohms with the test leads shorted so t ===============


    Message 17


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    Time: 02:26:42 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    On 8/25/2014 2:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 01:25 PM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >> And >> >> "Why did the British fail in the personal PC market?" >> >> "Because they couldn't stop them leaking oil....." > > Come on guys . . . > > > Bob . . . Yeah; sorry 'bout that. I didn't mean to stimulate the retelling of *every* joke about British tech. Besides, the Brits have done lots of stuff first, or better. The jet engine, for one. And if you've never flown a Chipmunk, you need to. I don't think anything flew as well until RV's came along. Charlie


    Message 18


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    Time: 02:28:57 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Carling switch resistance for micro currents?
    Thanks for all the replies. I have not been back to the hangar to do anymore since posting my original question but I will add a little more info here. This particular circuit has never operated any load yet. It has been sitting for a couple years since originally crafted. The plane is in a heated/insulated space. Nothing else rusts or corrodes in this space. The fuse is 5amp. I believe I also clipped the meter's alligator directly to the screw terminal of the fuse block thereby eliminating the block and fuse but will retry tonight. I don't have a battery in the plane yet. I use a 30 amp DC power supply that plugs into a piper style remote power port. It puts out 14VDC and has run all my other loads just fine. When the DC power supply is powered up, I get the full voltage at the load end of the subject wire which is what I expected to see. Since there has never been any load driven by this circuit (no current flowing) there has never been and arky sparky happening at the switch. So, is some arky sparky required to get the switch to indicate 0 ohms when in the on position? I wouldn't think so but I seem to recall something about these switches not being designed for extremely small currents. What I do see is open circuit with the switch off, dropping to several megohms when on. I may try powering a medium load (5-10 amps) to see... A) If the load powers up as expected while metering current through the circuit. B) Check the switch to see if it generates any noticeable heat during this test C) Re measure the closed circuit resistance after the test to see if it now appears more normal. Anything else? Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob McCallum Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:43 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Carling switch resistance for micro currents? If you are actually measuring "several megohms" then 1; the switch is open, 2; the fuse is blown, or 3; one of the connections is not attached. Several megohms is what you would see holding the meter leads, one in each of your hands, with no metallic electrical circuit attached. You should be seeing less than an ohm or so with the circuit as you described it. Bob McC > From: fvalarm@rapidnet.net > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Carling switch resistance for micro currents? > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:05:51 -0700 > > > > Hi Bob, > > Last night I was metering a circuit (for total resistance) not including the > load at the end of the wire. The circuit consists of about 10 feet of 18AWG > wire, an ATC fuse, fuse block and a carling SPST switch all obtained from > B&C, and two alligator test leads. I was surprised to find the meter (my > trusty Fluke) read several megohms when I closed the switch. I was > expecting to see something less than 5 ohms (probably less than one). It > would appear that there is quite a high resistance when only the very small > current of the metering circuit is passing through the switch. Is this > normal? > > Note: The meter showed 0.2 ohms with the test leads shorted so the meter > seems to be functioning correctly. > > Bevan >================== > > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 03:21:47 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Orth" <mosurf@xplornet.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 Main Alternator.
    Sometime in the mid 1700's the French invented the toilet seat. After 75 years of use, the English greatly improved on the French design by cutting a hole in it. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:27 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z13/8 Main Alternator. <ceengland7@gmail.com> On 8/25/2014 2:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 01:25 PM 8/25/2014, you wrote: >> And >> >> "Why did the British fail in the personal PC market?" >> >> "Because they couldn't stop them leaking oil....." > > Come on guys . . . > > > Bob . . . Yeah; sorry 'bout that. I didn't mean to stimulate the retelling of *every* joke about British tech. Besides, the Brits have done lots of stuff first, or better. The jet engine, for one. And if you've never flown a Chipmunk, you need to. I don't think anything flew as well until RV's came along. Charlie ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 20


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    Time: 04:25:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z-19 Function
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    >From the EFII Bus Manager manual: > Fuel Pump Mode Switch > This switch has two positions and determines the fuel pump drive operation of the Bus Manager. When in position 1/Auto (the normal operating position), fuel pump 1 will be running and operating the engine. The Bus Manager will continuously monitor the fuel rail pressure by tapping into the signal wire from the fuel pressure sender that is connected to your engine monitor. If the fuel rail pressure drops below a precalibrated limit, the bus Manager will automatically turn on fuel pump 2. When in position 2, fuel pump 2 is forced ON and fuel pump 1 will be turned OFF. Wire the Fuel Pump Mode Switch to the control harness as shown on DRAWING 2. Is there a failure mode of the DFII that could result in the unwanted shutting off of a fuel pump? I am not saying that could happen, just saying that unexpected things could happen if the pilot is not very familiar with automatic systems. Regardless of the electrical system architecture, the builder needs to ask, "If this part fails, how will I know it, what are the consequences, and what is my plan B?" Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429317#429317




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