---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/22/14: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:56 AM - Re: Stator (user9253) 2. 06:14 AM - Re: Stator (user9253) 3. 01:39 PM - Re: Stator (Jim Kale) 4. 04:35 PM - Re: Stator (Jan) 5. 06:08 PM - Re: Stator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:34 PM - Re: Stator (David Lloyd) 7. 07:35 PM - Re: Stator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 07:42 PM - Re: Stator (Jan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:42 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Stator From: "user9253" I am curious to know the purpose of rewinding the alternator. Is the winding open or partially shorted? Is the winding stationary and permanent magnets rotate with the engine? Is a new winding available from Sonex at a reasonable price? Maybe the same winding is available from Briggs & Stratton or Tecumseh. The stator of an alternator is usually pretty robust and unlikely to fail. What are the symptoms that suggest that winding replacement is necessary? Or is the goal to improve the alternator output? Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430911#430911 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:37 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Stator From: "user9253" Here are some sources for magnet wire: http://www.magnet4less.com/?cPath=9 http://www.powerwerx.com/wire-cable/magnet-wire.html It is also available at eBay and Amazon and Digikey. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430912#430912 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:10 PM PST US From: "Jim Kale" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Stator That is a single phase alternator. The windings in this photo look perfectly good. The only reason to rewind one would be if the windings were somehow damaged or shorted internally somewhere. The big factor on rewinding is to get the correct size wire and then make sure the direction of the turns on each element are correct. Normally the winding direction is reversed on every other element. Since these windings don't turn, there is no problem with the wire being thrown off by centrifugal force. I agree with the other advice though. It would be much easier all around to just get a new one. From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:03 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator At 16:47 2014-09-21, you wrote: > Tom, I do not know anything about the alternator used on your engine. However, I would bet that it is used in many other applications, such that you could find the replacement instead of going thru the trouble of a rewind. Example, Most Cessna alternators and regulators are really Ford products. D Tom's alternator isn't anything like you'd find on a Cessna . . . It's a permanent magnet alternator with windings that look something like this . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator From: Jan It is easy testing the stator with a isolation and continuity test. No point rewinding it if that test is ok. Visually the stator looks fine. Maybe the r otor has been so hot that the permanent magnets have partly demagnetised. Yo u need some green magnet paper or a gaus meter to verify even magnetisation o f you pm rotor All the best Jan > On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:36, Jim Kale wrote: > > That is a single phase alternator. The windings in this photo look perfec tly good. The only reason to rewind one would be if the windings were some how damaged or shorted internally somewhere. The big factor on rewinding i s to get the correct size wire and then make sure the direction of the turns on each element are correct. Normally the winding direction is reversed on every other element. Since these windings don=99t turn, there is no p roblem with the wire being thrown off by centrifugal force. I agree with t he other advice though. It would be much easier all around to just get a ne w one. > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:03 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator > > At 16:47 2014-09-21, you wrote: > et> > > Tom, > I do not know anything about the alternator used on your engine. > However, I would bet that it is used in many other applications, such that you could find the replacement instead of going thru the trouble of a rewin d. Example, Most Cessna alternators and regulators are really Ford products . D > > > Tom's alternator isn't anything like you'd > find on a Cessna . . . > > > > It's a permanent magnet alternator with windings > that look something like this . . . > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator At 18:34 2014-09-22, you wrote: >It is easy testing the stator with a isolation and continuity test. >No point rewinding it if that test is ok. Visually the stator looks >fine. Maybe the rotor has been so hot that the permanent magnets >have partly demagnetised. You need some green magnet paper or a gaus >meter to verify even magnetisation of you pm rotor The picture I posted for the PM alternator stator was and exemplar NEW device. I think the stator that started this thread was toast. They're not hard to rewind as long as care is taken to insure insulation integrity between windings and the stator core. Hopefully his original core was powder coated and not damaged. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:23 PM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator One of the oddest stator failures I have ever witnessed was a hairline crack in the stator wiring that only opened when the alternator group reached a certain temperature. In that case, it was where the end of the heavy stator wire was swaged into the case for grounding. I think the wire was stressed during manufacture and the fault did not fully materialize until much later. When the alternator was reviewed and bench tested no failure could be found. On the test stand it was not subject to the temps needed to open the fault. . !! It was an old grey haired, very wise, electrical alternator wizard guy that unraveled that mystery. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan To: Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 4:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator It is easy testing the stator with a isolation and continuity test. No point rewinding it if that test is ok. Visually the stator looks fine. Maybe the rotor has been so hot that the permanent magnets have partly demagnetised. You need some green magnet paper or a gaus meter to verify even magnetisation of you pm rotor All the best Jan On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:36, Jim Kale wrote: That is a single phase alternator. The windings in this photo look perfectly good. The only reason to rewind one would be if the windings were somehow damaged or shorted internally somewhere. The big factor on rewinding is to get the correct size wire and then make sure the direction of the turns on each element are correct. Normally the winding direction is reversed on every other element. Since these windings don=99t turn, there is no problem with the wire being thrown off by centrifugal force. I agree with the other advice though. It would be much easier all around to just get a new one. From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:03 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator At 16:47 2014-09-21, you wrote: Tom, I do not know anything about the alternator used on your engine. However, I would bet that it is used in many other applications, such that you could find the replacement instead of going thru the trouble of a rewind. Example, Most Cessna alternators and regulators are really Ford products. D Tom's alternator isn't anything like you'd find on a Cessna . . . It's a permanent magnet alternator with windings that look something like this . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:21 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator At 18:34 2014-09-22, you wrote: >It is easy testing the stator with a isolation and continuity test. >No point rewinding it if that test is ok. Visually the stator looks >fine. Maybe the rotor has been so hot that the permanent magnets >have partly demagnetised. You need some green magnet paper or a gaus >meter to verify even magnetisation of you pm rotor The picture I posted for the PM alternator stator was and exemplar NEW device. I think the stator that started this thread was toast. They're not hard to rewind as long as care is taken to insure insulation integrity between windings and the stator core. Hopefully his original core was powder coated and not damaged. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator From: Jan Always a good thing to test at operating temperature. Just stick it in a ove n .. Or outside in a black box in the sun .... :-) .. Poor mans heat chamber ... Then do your readings ... All the best Jan > On Sep 23, 2014, at 9:33, David Lloyd wrote: > > One of the oddest stator failures I have ever witnessed was a hairline cra ck in the stator wiring that only opened when the alternator group reached a certain temperature. In that case, it was where the end of the heavy stato r wire was swaged into the case for grounding. I think the wire was stresse d during manufacture and the fault did not fully materialize until much late r. > When the alternator was reviewed and bench tested no failure could be foun d. On the test stand it was not subject to the temps needed to open the fau lt. . !! > It was an old grey haired, very wise, electrical alternator wizard guy tha t unraveled that mystery. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jan > To: > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 4:34 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator > > It is easy testing the stator with a isolation and continuity test. No poi nt rewinding it if that test is ok. Visually the stator looks fine. Maybe th e rotor has been so hot that the permanent magnets have partly demagnetised. You need some green magnet paper or a gaus meter to verify even magnetisati on of you pm rotor > > All the best > > Jan > >> On Sep 23, 2014, at 4:36, Jim Kale wrote: >> >> That is a single phase alternator. The windings in this photo look perfe ctly good. The only reason to rewind one would be if the windings were som ehow damaged or shorted internally somewhere. The big factor on rewinding i s to get the correct size wire and then make sure the direction of the turns on each element are correct. Normally the winding direction is reversed on every other element. Since these windings don=99t turn, there is no p roblem with the wire being thrown off by centrifugal force. I agree with t he other advice though. It would be much easier all around to just get a ne w one. >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelec tric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III >> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 6:03 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stator >> At 16:47 2014-09-21, you wrote: >> net> >> >> Tom, >> I do not know anything about the alternator used on your engine. >> However, I would bet that it is used in many other applications, such tha t you could find the replacement instead of going thru the trouble of a rewi nd. Example, Most Cessna alternators and regulators are really Ford product s. D >> >> >> Tom's alternator isn't anything like you'd >> find on a Cessna . . . >> >> >> >> It's a permanent magnet alternator with windings >> that look something like this . . . >> >> >> Bob . . . >> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.