AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Fri 10/24/14


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:36 AM - Re: RV-14 (Justin Jones)
     2. 07:42 AM - Re: RV-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 09:39 AM - Re: RV-14 (Ralph Finch)
     4. 10:04 AM - Toroid beads ()
     5. 10:41 AM - Re: Toroid beads (Tim Andres)
     6. 10:54 AM - Re: Toroid beads (Dj Merrill)
     7. 10:56 AM - Re: Toroid beads ()
     8. 11:21 AM - Re: Toroid beads ()
     9. 11:32 AM - Re: Toroid beads (Jim Kale)
    10. 11:41 AM - Re: Toroid beads (Dj Merrill)
    11. 12:10 PM - Re: Toroid beads ()
    12. 12:19 PM - Re: Toroid beads (Tim Andres)
    13. 12:21 PM - Re: Toroid beads (Ralph Finch)
    14. 01:09 PM - Re: RV-14 (Peter Pengilly)
    15. 02:18 PM - Re: RV-14 (Jeff Luckey)
    16. 03:15 PM - Re: Toroid beads (Bill Maxwell)
    17. 08:22 PM - Re: Toroid beads (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    18. 08:42 PM - Re: RV-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:36:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: RV-14
    From: Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
    As far as your electrical architecture is concerned, you need to do a google search for "The Aeroelectric Connection". The Z- diagrams are in the book and already built to suit your specific application. As mentioned earlier, bob is the author and has done a masterful job at putting the book and diagrams together. Going from memory, you will be looking for either Z-13 or Z-14 for the dual alternator schematic. You have come to the right place for help! There are folks on here that are smarter on this subject than I could ever imagine being. Justin > On Oct 23, 2014, at 21:11, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote: > > > Have you priced your choices vs Dynon Skyview? Including annual database and charts update cost? > I think Dynon has been around giving excellent cost effective products and service to the experimental market a lot longer than Garmin; > but we all tend to think our choices are superior to other choices. ;-) > IMHO the simplest way to reduce your electrical system needs and costs are to go with single ship's battery, > backup up battery for each EFIS screen, and dual ADAHRS, > That is what I have done with my RV-10 with the following choices: > Lycoming IO-540 with dual Bendix 1200 mags, Plane Power 60 amp alternator, Odyssey PC-925 battery. > Two Dynon Skyview D1000 screens each with their own backup battery, dual ADAHRS, Dynon autopilot, dynon ADSB transponder and receiver > PS Eng PS5000X audio panel > GTN-650 > SL30. > Dynon heated pitot/AOA. > > Granted the GTN200 was not available when I selected, and the G3X system was priced much higher at the time. > PMag still does not have a 6 cyl version, last I checked. > Each Dynon EFIS is independently capable of controlling the autopilot servos, each can use either ADAHRS, > I am very comfortable with what i have for flying IFR, day or night.I may upgrade one of my screens to touch, but it is not a priority. > Since your PMags produce their own power, no dual bus electrical system needed. As long as either of your selected EFIS can operate on a backup battery and provide you enough time to get to VFR or on the ground and supply you the same level of backup as having old mechanical instruments that are required under 91.205 c&d you should be fine. > You will want to do a load analysis to see if 40 amps really is enough. While my system is legitimately within the 80% of rated capacity with intermittent use items not considered, with everything on it is very close to 60 amps, even using LED nav and strobe systems. > Owen Baker has done an excellent document on distilling the instrumentation required by reg for IFR in amateur built experimentals, certainly contained in archives of this list. Whether you want more than legal minimum is up to you and how much electrical complexity you want. > >> On 10/23/2014 9:33 AM, Stoney Ware wrote: >> >> I am a first time builder and building a RV-14. I am trying to plan for the electrical and backup system now. I will be flying IFR, when necessary. Here is my potential configuration: >> >> Lycoming IO-390 with dual P-Mags & 40 Amp B&C Alternator (Purchased) >> >> G3X Dual Touchscreen Monitors >> >> GMC305 AutoPilot Console >> >> GTN650 GPS/Comm >> >> GTN200 Comm >> >> GMA 240 Audio Panel >> >> GTX 23 Transponder >> >> So two questions: >> >> What should I do for a backup in the case of a loss of the Garmin System? >> >> 1.Add a second ADAHRS and battery backup for the EFIS >> >> 2.Add a separate system, i.e. GRT Mini, TruTrak Gemini, Dynon D6 >> >> 3.Use a portable backup like the Garmin 696 or 796? >> >> What about additional alternator? >> >> My knowledge and experience is only what I have read on-line in the last 6 months and asking a lot of questions, but still very limited. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Stoney Ware >> >> * >> >> >> * > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:42:16 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-14
    > >> > >> My knowledge and experience is only what I have read on-line in > the last 6 months and asking a lot of questions, but still very limited. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Stoney Ware Suggest you consider Z-13/8 architecture first . . . which can be found here (along with it's cousins) . . . http://tinyurl.com/5wxzn7 First you need to do a LOAD analysis . . . fancy name for making a list of every electron-hungry device on your airplane. You then sort them into pigeon-holes categorized for the various flight . . . with the one called "Main Alternator Out" getting special attention. Download a form from http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj and print three copies. One for each of the Z-13/8 busses, MAIN, ENDURANCE and BATTERY. The goal is to ascertain exactly what your maximum alternator loads are and under what conditions. The special attention is for MAIN ALT OUT where you'd like to get your loads down to 8A or less. The point being that in the unlikely event of main alternator failure, you can operate enough electro-whizzies to conduct a comfortable flight for as long as you have fuel aboard . . . while holding battery energy in reserve. Once you have the airport in sight, you can turn on everything you'd like to light-up . . . including the kitchen sink. This will be possible because you've included routine BATTERY MAINTENANCE in your to-do list along with oil changes, checks for leaks, tire wear, tire pressures, etc. etc. Launching into ANY anticipated mission KNOWING your energy requirements along with energy availability offers a very low risk adventure. But without need for the added $maintenance$ of standby batteries in the electro-whizzies normally considered essential for continued flight to airport of destination. This offers an opportunity to craft an electrical system with predictable endurance exceeding duration of fuel on board. Make sure that Z-13/8 is truly inadequate to your anticipated needs and associated risks before you launch into something like Z-14 (really suited to only a small percentage of OBAM aircraft projects), . Bring your musings here to the List . . . Filling in the knowledge gaps after your energy/mission studies are complete starts with a copy of the book. Random-access, low-energy paper available here . . . http://tinyurl.com/cgr42l5 or byte-bound, battery-powered copy available here . . . http://tinyurl.com/cgr42l5 Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:39:49 AM PST US
    From: Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-14
    I must disagree with the attitude here...that a proper backup system is too complicated, so don't do it. The OP's mission is IFR, perhaps at night, probably single-pilot and of course single-engine. That's already a complex task which needs to be done right. In this case, "right" means having backup electricity not from a perhaps tired aircraft battery and an EFIS battery backup. You must have an e-buss to quickly and easily shed unnecessary load. Once you've acknowledged that complexity, adding a standby alternator, for instance, is not much more difficult and is very prudent. Studies Mr. Nuckolls' The Aeroelectric Connection book, continue to ask questions here, and implement a backup system that reduces risks to your comfort level, not because it's easier. Many people have done the Z-13 or -14 system given in the book as Mr. Nuckolls has already done most of the design work. Ralph Finch RV-9A > > > > Primary backup is in fact ship's battery...Having a total of 3 batteries > to test once a year is a whole lot simpler than trying to install dual > electric buss with one or two alternators and one or two batteries that > will power what besides you flight instruments? >


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:04:27 AM PST US
    From: <berkut13@berkut13.com>
    Subject: Toroid beads
    Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas? -James


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:41:33 AM PST US
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    If you dont find any James let me know, I have a few left over. Tim Andres On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:23 AM, "berkut13@berkut13.com" <berkut13@berkut13.com> wrote: Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas? -James


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:54:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
    On 10/24/2014 01:03 PM, berkut13@berkut13.com wrote: > *Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that > slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas?* Radio Shack sells them (called Snap Choke Core): http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId 32273&znt_campaign=Category_CMS&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_source=CAT&znt_content=CT2032230 -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:56:39 AM PST US
    From: <berkut13@berkut13.com>
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    Will need them ongoing, I was really looking for a source. Thanks though. -James From: Tim Andres Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:37 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toroid beads If you dont find any James let me know, I have a few left over. Tim Andres On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:23 AM, "berkut13@berkut13.com" <berkut13@berkut13.com> wrote: Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas? -James


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:21:48 AM PST US
    From: <berkut13@berkut13.com>
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    Too big. Looking for source for the small ferrite "doughnuts" that slip over the coax at the di-pole element split. Shown here: http://www.berkut13.com/com2_08.jpg Thanks, James -----Original Message----- From: Dj Merrill Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:53 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toroid beads On 10/24/2014 01:03 PM, berkut13@berkut13.com wrote: > *Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that > slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas?* Radio Shack sells them (called Snap Choke Core): http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId 32273&znt_campa ign=Category_CMS&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_source=CAT&znt_content=CT20 32230 -Dj


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:32:58 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Kale" <jimkale@roadrunner.com>
    Subject: Toroid beads
    You might try RST Engineering. It is the guy who writes the Kit Planes Electronics articles. He normally sells them. From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of berkut13@berkut13.com Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:55 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toroid beads Will need them ongoing, I was really looking for a source. Thanks though. -James From: Tim Andres <mailto:tim2542@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:37 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toroid beads If you dont find any James let me know, I have a few left over. Tim Andres On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:23 AM, "berkut13@berkut13.com <mailto:berkut13@berkut13.com> " <berkut13@berkut13.com <mailto:berkut13@berkut13.com> > wrote: Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas? -James href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:41:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
    On 10/24/2014 02:19 PM, berkut13@berkut13.com wrote: > Too big. Looking for source for the small ferrite "doughnuts" that slip > over the coax at the di-pole element split. > > Shown here: > http://www.berkut13.com/com2_08.jpg Hi James, I think the ones from Radio Shack will perform the same job, electrically. Yes, they are physically bigger, but they do offer one that is the right inside diameter size to fit around the coax. They just have a plastic case around the ferrite that "snaps" in place. Makes them easy to remove, too, without having to undo any soldering or crimping since they are a split configuration. You can remove the outer plastic shell and wrap them with something smaller (tape, whatever) if the physical outside diameter is too big. You can probably find the exact ones you are looking for at McMaster Carr or some other online source, and someone else on the list might be able to offer a specific reference. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:10:24 PM PST US
    From: <berkut13@berkut13.com>
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    No thanks! Last time I ordered from RST, it took 6 months of reminder phone calls/emails to get it. I=99m not ever doing that again...YMMV. To keep this on track...I need specs and a distributor if possible. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/647/1295.pdf If the selection is nothing more than finding something that fits around the coax, I would order from the =9CTOROIDAL FERRITE BEADS=9D section. -James From: Jim Kale Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:32 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Toroid beads You might try RST Engineering. It is the guy who writes the Kit Planes Electronics articles. He normally sells them.


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:19:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Those are much different than the ones I think James May be looking for. I have no idea if they are suitable. RST once sold a kit with the small ferrite beads that just fit the RG 58 and could easily be imbedded into a composite structure. I think that is what he's looking for. Tim > On Oct 24, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> wrote: > > >> On 10/24/2014 01:03 PM, berkut13@berkut13.com wrote: >> *Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that >> slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas?* > > > Radio Shack sells them (called Snap Choke Core): > > http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId 32273&znt_campaign=Category_CMS&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_source=CAT&znt_content=CT2032230 > > -Dj > > > -- > Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87 > Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ > Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/ > > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:21:23 PM PST US
    From: Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    Or your mileage won't vary. I keep seeing bitter complaints about RST total lack of customer service. I'd for sure never order anything from him. On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 12:08 PM, <berkut13@berkut13.com> wrote: > No thanks! Last time I ordered from RST, it took 6 months of reminder > phone calls/emails to get it. I'm not ever doing that again...YMMV. >


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:09:08 PM PST US
    From: Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-14
    Bob, In my view Z13/8 has many advantages, but how would you handle the start-up brown out problem? For example if an EFIS with integral engine monitor is fitted it must be operational during engine start, but is unlikely to endure the start-up low voltage transients. A second alternator seems by far a better mitigation for main alternator failure than a second battery, but I can't see any way around a small additional battery to hold up the power for the EFIS/Engine Monitor (and perhaps main Nav radio/GPS) during engine start. What are your thoughts? Peter On 24/10/2014 15:41, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > >> >> >> >> My knowledge and experience is only what I have read on-line in >> the last 6 months and asking a lot of questions, but still very limited. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Stoney Ware > > Suggest you consider Z-13/8 architecture first . . . which > can be found here (along with it's cousins) . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/5wxzn7 > > First you need to do a LOAD analysis . . . fancy > name for making a list of every electron-hungry > device on your airplane. > > You then sort them into pigeon-holes categorized > for the various flight . . . with the one called > "Main Alternator Out" getting special attention. > > Download a form from http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj > and print three copies. One for each of the Z-13/8 > busses, MAIN, ENDURANCE and BATTERY. > > The goal is to ascertain exactly what your maximum > alternator loads are and under what conditions. > The special attention is for MAIN ALT OUT > where you'd like to get your loads down to > 8A or less. > > The point being that in the unlikely event > of main alternator failure, you can operate > enough electro-whizzies to conduct a comfortable > flight for as long as you have fuel aboard . . . > while holding battery energy in reserve. > > Once you have the airport in sight, you can > turn on everything you'd like to light-up . . . > including the kitchen sink. This will be > possible because you've included routine > BATTERY MAINTENANCE in your to-do list > along with oil changes, checks for leaks, > tire wear, tire pressures, etc. etc. > > Launching into ANY anticipated mission > KNOWING your energy requirements along > with energy availability offers a very > low risk adventure. But without need > for the added $maintenance$ of standby > batteries in the electro-whizzies normally > considered essential for continued > flight to airport of destination. > > This offers an opportunity to craft an > electrical system with predictable endurance > exceeding duration of fuel on board. > > Make sure that Z-13/8 is truly inadequate to > your anticipated needs and associated risks > before you launch into something like Z-14 > (really suited to only a small percentage > of OBAM aircraft projects), . Bring your musings > here to the List . . . > > Filling in the knowledge gaps after your > energy/mission studies are complete starts > with a copy of the book. Random-access, > low-energy paper available here . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/cgr42l5 > > or byte-bound, battery-powered copy available > here . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/cgr42l5 > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:18:46 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Luckey <jluckey@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Re: RV-14
    I share Peter's concerns. In fact, keeping the avionics alive during crank is one of the criteria (among many others) which led to this design. See attached pdf. -Jeff On Friday, October 24, 2014 1:17 PM, Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com> wrote: Bob, In my view Z13/8 has many advantages, but how would you handle the start-up brown out problem? For example if an EFIS with integral engine monitor is fitted it must be operational during engine start, but is unlikely to endure the start-up low voltage transients. A second alternator seems by far a better mitigation for main alternator failure than a second battery, but I can't see any way around a small additional battery to hold up the power for the EFIS/Engine Monitor (and perhaps main Nav radio/GPS) during engine start. What are your thoughts? Peter On 24/10/2014 15:41, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > >> >> >> >> My knowledge and experience is only what I have read on-line in >> the last 6 months and asking a lot of questions, but still very limited. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Stoney Ware > > Suggest you consider Z-13/8 architecture first . . . which > can be found here (along with it's cousins) . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/5wxzn7 > > First you need to do a LOAD analysis . . . fancy > name for making a list of every electron-hungry > device on your airplane. > > You then sort them into pigeon-holes categorized > for the various flight . . . with the one called > "Main Alternator Out" getting special attention. > > Download a form from http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj > and print three copies. One for each of the Z-13/8 > busses, MAIN, ENDURANCE and BATTERY. > > The goal is to ascertain exactly what your maximum > alternator loads are and under what conditions. > The special attention is for MAIN ALT OUT > where you'd like to get your loads down to > 8A or less. > > The point being that in the unlikely event > of main alternator failure, you can operate > enough electro-whizzies to conduct a comfortable > flight for as long as you have fuel aboard . . . > while holding battery energy in reserve. > > Once you have the airport in sight, you can > turn on everything you'd like to light-up . . . > including the kitchen sink. This will be > possible because you've included routine > BATTERY MAINTENANCE in your to-do list > along with oil changes, checks for leaks, > tire wear, tire pressures, etc. etc. > > Launching into ANY anticipated mission > KNOWING your energy requirements along > with energy availability offers a very > low risk adventure. But without need > for the added $maintenance$ of standby > batteries in the electro-whizzies normally > considered essential for continued > flight to airport of destination. > > This offers an opportunity to craft an > electrical system with predictable endurance > exceeding duration of fuel on board. > > Make sure that Z-13/8 is truly inadequate to > your anticipated needs and associated risks > before you launch into something like Z-14 > (really suited to only a small percentage > of OBAM aircraft projects), . Bring your musings > here to the List . . . > > Filling in the knowledge gaps after your > energy/mission studies are complete starts > with a copy of the book. Random-access, > low-energy paper available here . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/cgr42l5 > > or byte-bound, battery-powered copy available > here . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/cgr42l5 > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:15:15 PM PST US
    From: Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    They are simply called "toroids", which describe their shape, Jim. They come in various compositions, both ferite and iron, that vary in their frequency responses. You will needneed a ferite composition effective at VHF. Commonly available through ham radio suppliers, so should not be too hard to find over there. Bill On 25/10/2014 5:19 AM, berkut13@berkut13.com wrote: > Too big. Looking for source for the small ferrite "doughnuts" that > slip over the coax at the di-pole element split. > Shown here: > http://www.berkut13.com/com2_08.jpg > Thanks, > James > -----Original Message----- > From: Dj Merrill > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:53 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Toroid beads > On 10/24/2014 01:03 PM, berkut13@berkut13.com wrote: > > *Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that > > slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas?* > Radio Shack sells them (called Snap Choke Core): > http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId 32273&znt_campaign=Category_CMS&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_source=CAT&znt_content=CT2032230 > -Dj > * > > > *


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:22:01 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Toroid beads
    At 12:03 PM 10/24/2014, you wrote: >Anyone got a part number (or spec) handy for the toroid beads that >slide over the RG-58/400 coax on our home made antennas? >-James These are so ineffectual as to make their 'benefits' undetectable except by sophisticated test equipment in the lab. Cessna produced thousands of airplanes with coax brazenly attached to horizontal cat-whisker dipoles with excellent results. Our resident physics PhD did a study on these antennas back in '69 or so. This was before 'donuts on the coax' became the 'buzz-phrase'. Back then the purists were into 4:1 coax baluns . . . they took care of the 'worries' about feeding an unbalanced coax with a balanced antenna . . . but demonstrated a 3:1 SWR under the best condition. Later, somebody tried the ferrite beads thing . . . not all ferrites are made the same. You need a material that exhibits low losses at the frequency of interest . . . 110 Mhz or thereabouts. Then it's useful to understand that the EFFECTIVENESS of adding such magnetics to the feed line varies as the SQUARE of the turns. So, 9 ferrites strung along a coax offer performance on the order of three turns of coax fed through a larger torroid. The big question is: If you don't have a balun (coax or ferrite), who would know? The answer is: nobody. We're talking a receiving antenna excited with nano or pico watts from a ground station. Further, the signal is line of sight . . . seldom more than 50 miles from ground station to airplane. A wet string with a gazillion to one SWR would receive the signal. If you'd really like to 'balance' things up, you can build a 1:1 "Pawsey stub" balun from a piece of scrap coax. See: http://tinyurl.com/yytxwd3 I've built dozens of these and the work just fine but as a VOR receive antenna, the benefits for having installed it are not observable from the cockpit. If you'd like to see an example of effective ferrite decoupling of a badly mated antenna/feedline condition, look at the "airwhip" vhf comm antenna articles on the web. One poster took one apart to show the ferrite torroid at the base with 4-5 turns of coax through the core . . . 16 to 25 times the effectiveness of a single core. Further, the material from which this core is made is narrowly crafted for the frequency of interest. Ferrites from Radio Shack for noise mitigation are not even close. My first choice: Hook the coax to the antenna 'bare foot' and it will work fine. Second choice; Build a 1:1 Pawsey stub balun. Third choice; track down suitable torroids but use larger ones that will allow multiple passes of coax thorugh the center. But understand that choices 2 an 3 are pretty much a waste of time in terms of outcome. Bob . . .


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:42:00 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: RV-14
    At 03:06 PM 10/24/2014, you wrote: ><peter@sportingaero.com> > >Bob, > >In my view Z13/8 has many advantages, but how would you handle the >start-up brown out problem? For example if an EFIS with integral >engine monitor is fitted it must be operational during engine start, >but is unlikely to endure the start-up low voltage transients. A >second alternator seems by far a better mitigation for main >alternator failure than a second battery, but I can't see any way >around a small additional battery to hold up the power for the >EFIS/Engine Monitor (and perhaps main Nav radio/GPS) during engine start. > >What are your thoughts? Brownout resets are not an architecture problem, they're a radio problem. A radio that DOES NOT conform to DO-160 guidelines for graceful recovery after all manner of input power interruptions. That capability is supposed to be internal to the appliance, not external . . . and for good reason. What's the poor C-172 owner supposed to do when he wants to modernize his avionics but doesn't want to climb the Everest-of-paperwork necessary to modify the ship's certificated electrical system? My work with lithium cells has germinated some ideas for very light, no moving parts, brownout mitigation for appliances that suffer this malady. I'm making some pretty startling discoveries . . . startling because of what the suppliers of lithium products don't choose to tell us for what ever reasons. Along those same lines of thought, it's still not clear to me that the owner-operator of a brown-out vulnerable instrumentation package is at any serious risks for having one or more gizmos reboot after engine start . . . yeah . . . we were to worship the oil pressure gage . . . I remember reading those words in my dad's copy of Sick and Rudder from his flight school days in 1946. But seriously, how many instances of 'failure to build pressure' in the first 30 seconds of run time were due to lubrication system failure that warranted shut-down and investigation?Some airplanes I've flow took a minute to develop full oil pressure on the gage in very cold weather . . . in spite of the fact that nothing was amiss in the engine. Architecture should be crafted to optimize system performance for all the equipment items needed to accomplish the mission. But if some piece of equipment fails to meet legacy goals for performance, I'm more disposed to put the necessary band-aid on that piece of equipment than to take an egg-beater to the whole system. Bob . . .




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