Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:13 AM - What's Your Contribution Used For? (Matt Dralle)
1. 09:12 AM - Flyback Diodes (Eric Page)
2. 10:02 AM - Re: Charging system problem - please help (Jeff Page)
3. 04:32 PM - Fire-Sale Phase V (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 05:27 PM - Re: Fire-Sale Phase V (Charlie England)
5. 05:35 PM - Re: Fire-Sale Phase V (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:05 PM - Re: Fire-Sale Phase V (Charlie England)
7. 06:39 PM - Re: Fire-Sale Phase V (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:17 PM - Re: Fire-Sale Phase V (Charlie England)
9. 10:02 PM - Re: Wiring schematic question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 10:33 PM - Re: Re: Wiring schematic question (Ryan)
Message 0
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| Subject: | What's Your Contribution Used For? |
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Message 1
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The following video was just posted by a fellow on YouTube who I follow. It
does a very nice job of illustrating the purpose and effect of using flybac
k or catch diodes on inductive loads like relay coils.
Since the topic has arisen here a number of times, I thought this might be o
f interest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6I7Ycbv8B8
Eric
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system problem - please help |
Digging through the schematics and parts listing, the over voltage
sensor was added at serial number 17259904 which was the second
production year of the 172L (1972).
I have a 1970 K model which has circuit breakers and the new double
rocker master switch.
Unfortunately, it looks like to add the over voltage module, I also
need to change the regulator, which has the additional connection for
the low voltage light, so it becomes an expensive proposition. I also
don't know what Transport Canada would require to consider the change
legal. So I won't bother.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> Time: 05:58:40 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Charging system problem - please
> help troubleshoot
>
> At 07:13 2014-11-16, you wrote:
>>
>> I can tell you for sure that 1968 & 1969 Cessna 172's were equipped
>> with alternators and a push-pull master switch AND no over-voltage
>> protection. Don't forget that the alternator ground is part of the
>> charging circuit.
>
> Good data point. Thanks! I'm going to the
> Textron Electronics Lab Thanksgiving lunch
> next week. I'll get into the archives and
> see what the evolutionary steps were that
> lead up to the full changeover to alternators,
> rocker switches and ov protection.
>
> Did those aircraft still have fuses?
>
>
> Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fire-Sale Phase V |
I have two, legacy crowbar overvoltage modules
left from inventory. $20 each post-paid to US
addresses.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fire-Sale Phase V |
On 11/17/2014 6:30 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> I have two, legacy crowbar overvoltage modules
> left from inventory. $20 each post-paid to US
> addresses.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> _
What does 'legacy' mean? If roughly equivalent in size/function to
current B&C production, I'll take both. How do I pay?
Charlie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fire-Sale Phase V |
At 19:28 2014-11-17, you wrote:
><ceengland7@gmail.com>
>
>On 11/17/2014 6:30 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>>
>>I have two, legacy crowbar overvoltage modules
>>left from inventory. $20 each post-paid to US
>>addresses.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>_
>What does 'legacy' mean? If roughly equivalent in size/function to
>current B&C production, I'll take both. How do I pay?
It's the same device currently in production at
B&C. It's a member of the family of crowbar ov modules
offered by both B&C and AeroElectric Connection
over the past 15+ years.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9003/CbOV-14_Installation_A.pdf
I'll invoice you through PayPal if you want them.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fire-Sale Phase V |
On 11/17/2014 7:34 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 19:28 2014-11-17, you wrote:
>> <ceengland7@gmail.com>
>>
>> On 11/17/2014 6:30 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>>>
>>> I have two, legacy crowbar overvoltage modules
>>> left from inventory. $20 each post-paid to US
>>> addresses.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>> _
>> What does 'legacy' mean? If roughly equivalent in size/function to
>> current B&C production, I'll take both. How do I pay?
>
>
> It's the same device currently in production at
> B&C. It's a member of the family of crowbar ov modules
> offered by both B&C and AeroElectric Connection
> over the past 15+ years.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9003/CbOV-14_Installation_A.pdf
>
> I'll invoice you through PayPal if you want them.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Excellent! Please invoice to mcsophie@gmail.com (different from my
aeroelectric subscription).
Thanks,
Charlie
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fire-Sale Phase V |
>Excellent! Please invoice to mcsophie@gmail.com (different from my
>aeroelectric subscription).
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie
Done.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fire-Sale Phase V |
On 11/17/2014 8:37 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>> Excellent! Please invoice to mcsophie@gmail.com (different from my
>> aeroelectric subscription).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Charlie
>
> Done.
>
>
> Bob . . .
And done.
Thanks,
Charlie
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring schematic question |
At 03:41 2014-11-17, you wrote:
Hi Bob,
I have been in email discussion with Greg Jones at B&C about a few
things on my Pitts Special and he suggested you would be best to
speak with about the Aerobatic Aircraft wiring schematic on their
website, it was made mention that you drew it up.
Drawing number 420-506
http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/420-506_Indexed_Diagram_with_BOM.pdf
http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/420-506_REVB.pdf
I had a couple of questions, hopefully you can assist a little.
Looking at the mag switch portion of the diagram. Should it not be
drawn that the impulse magneto is the OFF-START/ON?
If the OFF-START/ON switch (Right Mag) is used and the start button
engaged the starter would not power unless the Left Mag were also on.
Am I missing something here?
Those drawings were sorta copied from my originals
but with errors. See
http://tinyurl.com/lsqz36k
Here you see two options for toggle switch control
of magnetos . . . one option uses push button to energize
starter, the other uses the left mag switch to energize
the starter. BOTH versions lock the starter out if
the non-impulse coupled magneto is not OFF.
Might I also ask what the function of the momentary side of the mag
switch is for - (ON)-OFF-ON?
Same as left side. It was selected to be mechanically
identical to the left mag switch so that BOTH switches
are MAG-ON with the switch in the middle . . . it's a
carry over from the arguments I've received from human
factors guys . . . NORMAL ON and OFF positions for both
mags should look the same.
I am running an SD-8 dynamo and my intention is to have no master
solenoid (as shown in the schematic) and also not use a starter
solenoid, I am using the Skytec NL starter and they have an option of
wiring the starter using the internal solenoid of the starter. Do you
foresee any problem here?
If they use a two-stage solenoid for pinion gear
extension . . .
http://tinyurl.com/nx6xavk
then there are extra-ordinary stresses on the
switch that actually controls the starter solenoid.
Your choice. I recommend either an external contactor
or at least a buffer-relay to control starter
solenoid.
My biggest concern was having the starter engage and not be able to
shut it off. I see the B&C starter has an Emergency Starter Off how
does this disable their system as the way I see it, if the solenoid
contacts welded themselves closed, the starter is still feed power.
Emergency starter off? Don't know what this is
other than to simply turn the battery master switch
off.
I contacted Skytec and they said, due to the way their starter is
made this can't happen so a starter 'kill' isn't required. If power
is removed from the start solenoid the starter 'will' disengage, I
guess the only real danger in this situation is a stuck start switch
but turning off the master would solve that I guess.
I haven't a clue as to what they're talking about.
In every Z-figure and every TC aircraft, the battery
master relay is the back-up for a stuck-starter-contactor.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring schematic question |
Thanks Bob.
That all makes good sense after reading through it.
Much appreciated.
Ryan
From: nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring schematic question
=0A
=0A
At 03:41 2014-11-17=2C you wrote:
=0A
Hi Bob=2C
=0A
I have been in email discussion with Greg Jones at B&C about a few=0A
things on my Pitts Special and he suggested you would be best to speak=0A
with about the Aerobatic Aircraft wiring schematic on their website=2C it
=0A
was made mention that you drew it up.
=0A
Drawing number 420-506
=0A
=0A
http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/420-506_Indexed_Diagram_with_BOM.pdf
=0A
=0A
http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/420-506_REVB.pdf
=0A
I had a couple of questions=2C hopefully you can assist a=0A
little.
=0A
Looking at the mag switch portion of the diagram. Should it not be drawn=0A
that the impulse magneto is the OFF-START/ON?
=0A
If the OFF-START/ON switch (Right Mag) is used and the start button=0A
engaged the starter would not power unless the Left Mag were also=0A
on.
=0A
Am I missing something here?
=0A
=0A
Those drawings were sorta copied from my originals =0A
but with errors. See
=0A
=0A
=0A
http://tinyurl.com/lsqz36k
=0A
=0A
Here you see two options for toggle switch control =0A
of magnetos . . . one option uses push button to=0A
energize =0A
starter=2C the other uses the left mag switch to energize =0A
the starter. BOTH versions lock the starter out if =0A
the non-impulse coupled magneto is not OFF.
=0A
Might I also ask what the function of the momentary side of the mag=0A
switch is for - (ON)-OFF-ON?
=0A
=0A
Same as left side. It was selected to be mechanically =0A
identical to the left mag switch so that BOTH switches =0A
are MAG-ON with the switch in the middle . . . it's a =0A
carry over from the arguments I've received from human =0A
factors guys . . . NORMAL ON and OFF positions for both =0A
mags should look the same.
=0A
=0A
I am running an SD-8 dynamo and my intention is to have no master=0A
solenoid (as shown in the schematic) and also not use a starter solenoid=2C
=0A
I am using the Skytec NL starter and they have an option of wiring the=0A
starter using the internal solenoid of the starter. Do you foresee any=0A
problem here?
=0A
=0A
If they use a two-stage solenoid for pinion gear =0A
extension . . .
=0A
=0A
=0A
http://tinyurl.com/nx6xavk
=0A
=0A
then there are extra-ordinary stresses on the =0A
switch that actually controls the starter solenoid. =0A
Your choice. I recommend either an external contactor =0A
or at least a buffer-relay to control starter =0A
solenoid.
=0A
My biggest concern was having the starter engage and not be able to=0A
shut it off. I see the B&C starter has an Emergency Starter Off how=0A
does this disable their system as the way I see it=2C if the solenoid=0A
contacts welded themselves closed=2C the starter is still feed=0A
power.
=0A
=0A
Emergency starter off? Don't know what this is =0A
other than to simply turn the battery master switch =0A
off.
=0A
I contacted Skytec and they said=2C due to the way their starter is=0A
made this can't happen so a starter 'kill' isn't required. If power is=0A
removed from the start solenoid the starter 'will' disengage=2C I guess the
=0A
only real danger in this situation is a stuck start switch but turning=0A
off the master would solve that I guess.
=0A
=0A
I haven't a clue as to what they're talking about. =0A
In every Z-figure and every TC aircraft=2C the battery =0A
master relay is the back-up for a=0A
stuck-starter-contactor.
=0A
=0A
Bob . . . =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
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