AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 11/19/14


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:07 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle)
     1. 02:05 PM - Solid State Master Relay (Justin Jones)
     2. 03:18 PM - Re: Value of the List... (Jerome Sipple)
     3. 04:48 PM - Re: Wiring schematic question (eschlanser)
     4. 05:02 PM - Re: Solid State Master Relay (Jeff Luckey)
     5. 08:13 PM - Re: Solid State Master Relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 0


  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:07:41 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Value of the List...
    If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin.


    Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:05:42 PM PST US
    From: Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Solid State Master Relay
    I purchased the following solid state master relay to use in my project. It is designed to be used as an ambulance master relay. http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/ <http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/> I am wondering what the typical inrush and cranking amperage is to the Skytec starters for the Lycoming IO-360. I am contemplating wiring the starter from the battery, through the relay and to the starter rather than connecting it thru the Battery Master Switch. It would seem that limiting the high amounts of current that the starter draws would prolong the already long life of these solid state devices. The maximum rating for this relay is 500A for one second. Over the years, I have experienced numerous master relay failures, and I am anxious to try this out. The link to the data sheet is below. http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf <http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf> One other option I considered is to wire the starter from the battery, to a manual disconnect (such as one in the links below), then through the starter relay, thence the starter. One could attach a push-pull cable or rod to the armature of this switch, and easily disconnect the battery from the starter while sitting in the cockpit in the unlikely event of the starter contacts getting welded together, or the starter relay fails closed. This switch should probably be located as close to the battery as possible. http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1 <http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1> http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1 <http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1> http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1 <http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1> http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1 <http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1> http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1 <http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1> Thoughts are welcome Justin


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:18:29 PM PST US
    From: Jerome Sipple <newsgroups@taxesplusllc.com>
    Subject: Re: Value of the List...
    Matt, I have already made a contribution for this years drive, and although it ended up being a manual process due to something I messed up on my end the automated emails asking for contributions DID stop for a while. However they are now showing up again. Would it be possible have them stopped for the balance of this years drive? If it's a hassle to do so, it's no big deal. I just thought I would ask! Jerome Sipple jds@taxesplusllc.com or newsgroups@taxesplusllc.com On 11/19/2014 3:06 AM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) > > Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: > > Matt Dralle / Matronics > 581 Jeannie Way > Livermore CA 94550 > USA > > I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! > > Thank you for your support! > > Matt Dralle > Email List Admin. > >


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:48:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wiring schematic question
    From: "eschlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
    peter(at)sportingaero.com wrote: > If you have no master relay or starter relay then the thick wire from the battery to the starter will be hot at all times - there are a few accident scenarios where you could wish you hadn't done that, but its a judgement over risk and reward! > > I have a similar set up on my One Design, except that I used a starter relay, and also brought out the wire that controls the NL solenoid to a switch on the panel to provide an emergency off should the start relay weld itself together (used the suggestion in the Sky-Tec documentation). Yes that is a few additional ounces, but you already have a starter and a battery so the penalty is not that large. > > If you are worried about ounces then swap out your mags for P-mags? > > Peter > > > [/b] [b][/quote] Peter, I have the LS starter not the NL, and I am assuming you have rewired your NL internally to be like the LS model with the external "S" terminal available to control the starter's internal solenoid. I thought the wire to the the "S" terminal was used to engage the internal solenoid. How do you use it to dis-engage the internal solenoid in an emergency? I would like to add such an emergency off switch to my LS. Like your NL, my LS is wired with a firewall mounted external starter contactor directly off of the battery and not through a master contactor. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=434141#434141


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:02:40 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Luckey <jluckey@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Re: Solid State Master Relay
    Justin, I'm curious about the decision process that lead to selecting the solid-state relay. I see some down side: 1. Cost - that relay is 4 or 5 times the price of an equivalent mechanical device 2. Power dissipation - That's a pretty hefty heat-sink. How much power does it need to dissipate 3. I wonder if it is heavier that a mechanical - I didn't see a weight spec. 4. "Proven technology" - How much track record is there for this device? (I compare this against the standard Master relays with a 50+ year history.) This is the Master Relay I'm using (I like it because it's lightweight, small, low coil current, & reasonable cost): http://tinyurl.com/nb72gal Re wiring starter directly: That's what I'm doing in my RV-7. Battery to start-assist solenoid to starter. BobN just made a post in the last couple of days re this topic and I concur w/ his thoughts. Basically a hung start-assist solenoid is such a rare event that I don't worry about it. A couple of questions: 1. Which airplane are you building? 2. Tell us about your master relay failures. What aircraft? which relay/contactor? Please understand that my intent is not to be critical but rather to understand how you reached your conclusions. (I might learn something.) -Jeff On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 2:16 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com> wrote: I purchased the following solid state master relay to use in my project. It is designed to be used as an ambulance master relay. http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/ I am wondering what the typical inrush and cranking amperage is to the Skytec starters for the Lycoming IO-360. I am contemplating wiring the starter from the battery, through the relay and to the starter rather than connecting it thru the Battery Master Switch. It would seem that limiting the high amounts of current that the starter draws would prolong the already long life of these solid state devices. The maximum rating for this relay is 500A for one second. Over the years, I have experienced numerous master relay failures, and I am anxious to try this out. The link to the data sheet is below. http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf One other option I considered is to wire the starter from the battery, to a manual disconnect (such as one in the links below), then through the starter relay, thence the starter. One could attach a push-pull cable or rod to the armature of this switch, and easily disconnect the battery from the starter while sitting in the cockpit in the unlikely event of the starter contacts getting welded together, or the starter relay fails closed. This switch should probably be located as close to the battery as possible. http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1 Thoughts are welcome Justin


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:13:56 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Solid State Master Relay
    At 10:20 2014-11-19, you wrote: I purchased the following solid state master relay to use in my project. It is designed to be used as an ambulance master relay. http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/ I am wondering what the typical inrush and cranking amperage is to the Skytec starters for the Lycoming IO-360. It has more to do with wiring and the state of your battery than on the engine/starter combination. I am contemplating wiring the starter from the battery, through the relay and to the starter rather than connecting it thru the Battery Master Switch. It would seem that limiting the high amounts of current that the starter draws would prolong the already long life of these solid state devices. The maximum rating for this relay is 500A for one second. Over the years, I have experienced numerous master relay failures, and I am anxious to try this out. The link to the data sheet is below. http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf I notice an IN/OUT nomenclature on the device. Are you SURE this is a bi-directional device capable of carrying both DISCHARGE and CHARGE current? What kinds of battery master relays? In 30+ years, 850 hrs of flying, I've never experienced a master relay failure. While operating a fleet of rental airplanes on an airport for 6 months, I experienced one battery relay failure . . . on a relay that was over 20 years old. As a spares item compared against the numbers of airplanes in service, even the least expensive battery relays are a low-volume commodity. To have experienced 'numerous' failures gives rise to the question as to what kind of relays were involved. One other option I considered is to wire the starter from the battery, to a manual disconnect (such as one in the links below), then through the starter relay, thence the starter. One could attach a push-pull cable or rod to the armature of this switch, and easily disconnect the battery from the starter while sitting in the cockpit in the unlikely event of the starter contacts getting welded together, or the starter relay fails closed. This switch should probably be located as close to the battery as possible. http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1 http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1 There are as many ways to wire an airplane as there are creative installers of wires. What you describe is, perhaps, unnecessarily complicated; motivated by reasons that are not clear to me. The solid state switch will be an interesting experiment but I'm more interested in understanding your displeasure with the legacy parts and architectures. Bob . . .




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --