Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:07 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:05 PM - Solid State Master Relay (Justin Jones)
2. 03:18 PM - Re: Value of the List... (Jerome Sipple)
3. 04:48 PM - Re: Wiring schematic question (eschlanser)
4. 05:02 PM - Re: Solid State Master Relay (Jeff Luckey)
5. 08:13 PM - Re: Solid State Master Relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
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Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least
that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get
a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during
this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through
YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Message 1
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Subject: | Solid State Master Relay |
I purchased the following solid state master relay to use in my project.
It is designed to be used as an ambulance master relay.
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/
<http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/>
I am wondering what the typical inrush and cranking amperage is to the
Skytec starters for the Lycoming IO-360. I am contemplating wiring the
starter from the battery, through the relay and to the starter rather
than connecting it thru the Battery Master Switch. It would seem that
limiting the high amounts of current that the starter draws would
prolong the already long life of these solid state devices. The maximum
rating for this relay is 500A for one second. Over the years, I have
experienced numerous master relay failures, and I am anxious to try this
out. The link to the data sheet is below.
http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf
<http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf>
One other option I considered is to wire the starter from the battery,
to a manual disconnect (such as one in the links below), then through
the starter relay, thence the starter. One could attach a push-pull
cable or rod to the armature of this switch, and easily disconnect the
battery from the starter while sitting in the cockpit in the unlikely
event of the starter contacts getting welded together, or the starter
relay fails closed. This switch should probably be located as close to
the battery as possible.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1
<http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1>
http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1
<http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1>
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1
<http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1>
http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1
<http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1>
http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1
<http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1>
Thoughts are welcome
Justin
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Value of the List... |
Matt,
I have already made a contribution for this years drive, and although it
ended up being a manual process due to something I messed up on my end
the automated emails asking for contributions DID stop for a while.
However they are now showing up again. Would it be possible have them
stopped for the balance of this years drive? If it's a hassle to do so,
it's no big deal. I just thought I would ask!
Jerome Sipple
jds@taxesplusllc.com or newsgroups@taxesplusllc.com
On 11/19/2014 3:06 AM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
> If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or
$30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for
a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at
least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and
get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to
think of it, you do... :-)
>
> Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these
Lists?
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
>
> Matt Dralle / Matronics
> 581 Jeannie Way
> Livermore CA 94550
> USA
>
> I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during
this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through
YOUR generosity!!
>
> Thank you for your support!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Wiring schematic question |
peter(at)sportingaero.com wrote:
> If you have no master relay or starter relay then the thick wire from the
battery to the starter will be hot at all times - there are a few accident
scenarios where you could wish you hadn't done that, but its a judgement
over risk and reward!
>
> I have a similar set up on my One Design, except that I used a starter
relay, and also brought out the wire that controls the NL solenoid to a
switch on the panel to provide an emergency off should the start relay weld
itself together (used the suggestion in the Sky-Tec documentation). Yes
that is a few additional ounces, but you already have a starter and a battery
so the penalty is not that large.
>
> If you are worried about ounces then swap out your mags for P-mags?
>
> Peter
>
>
> [/b]
[b][/quote]
Peter,
I have the LS starter not the NL, and I am assuming you have rewired your NL
internally to be like the LS model with the external "S" terminal available to
control the starter's internal solenoid. I thought the wire to the the "S" terminal
was used to engage the internal solenoid. How do you use it to dis-engage
the internal solenoid in an emergency?
I would like to add such an emergency off switch to my LS. Like your NL, my LS
is wired with a firewall mounted external starter contactor directly off of the
battery and not through a master contactor.
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=434141#434141
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Solid State Master Relay |
Justin,
I'm curious about the decision process that lead to selecting the solid-state relay.
I see some down side:
1. Cost - that relay is 4 or 5 times the price of an equivalent mechanical device
2. Power dissipation - That's a pretty hefty heat-sink. How much power does it
need to dissipate
3. I wonder if it is heavier that a mechanical - I didn't see a weight spec.
4. "Proven technology" - How much track record is there for this device? (I compare
this against the standard Master relays with a 50+ year history.)
This is the Master Relay I'm using (I like it because it's lightweight, small,
low coil current, & reasonable cost):
http://tinyurl.com/nb72gal
Re wiring starter directly:
That's what I'm doing in my RV-7. Battery to start-assist solenoid to starter.
BobN just made a post in the last couple of days re this topic and I concur
w/ his thoughts. Basically a hung start-assist solenoid is such a rare event
that I don't worry about it.
A couple of questions:
1. Which airplane are you building?
2. Tell us about your master relay failures. What aircraft? which relay/contactor?
Please understand that my intent is not to be critical but rather to
understand how you reached your conclusions. (I might learn something.)
-Jeff
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 2:16 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
wrote:
I purchased the following solid state master relay to use in my project. It is
designed to be used as an ambulance master relay.
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/
I am wondering what the typical inrush and cranking amperage is to the Skytec starters
for the Lycoming IO-360. I am contemplating wiring the starter from the
battery, through the relay and to the starter rather than connecting it thru
the Battery Master Switch. It would seem that limiting the high amounts of
current that the starter draws would prolong the already long life of these solid
state devices. The maximum rating for this relay is 500A for one second.
Over the years, I have experienced numerous master relay failures, and I am anxious
to try this out. The link to the data sheet is below.
http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf
One other option I considered is to wire the starter from the battery, to a manual
disconnect (such as one in the links below), then through the starter relay,
thence the starter. One could attach a push-pull cable or rod to the armature
of this switch, and easily disconnect the battery from the starter while sitting
in the cockpit in the unlikely event of the starter contacts getting welded
together, or the starter relay fails closed. This switch should probably
be located as close to the battery as possible.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1
Thoughts are welcome
Justin
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Solid State Master Relay |
At 10:20 2014-11-19, you wrote:
I purchased the following solid state master relay to use in my
project. It is designed to be used as an ambulance master relay.
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300-AMP-SOLID-STATE-BATTERY/
I am wondering what the typical inrush and cranking amperage is to
the Skytec starters for the Lycoming IO-360.
It has more to do with wiring and the state of
your battery than on the engine/starter combination.
I am contemplating wiring the starter from the battery, through the
relay and to the starter rather than connecting it thru the Battery
Master Switch. It would seem that limiting the high amounts of
current that the starter draws would prolong the already long life of
these solid state devices. The maximum rating for this relay is 500A
for one second. Over the years, I have experienced numerous master
relay failures, and I am anxious to try this out. The link to the
data sheet is below.
http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf
I notice an IN/OUT nomenclature on the device.
Are you SURE this is a bi-directional device
capable of carrying both DISCHARGE and CHARGE
current?
What kinds of battery master relays? In 30+ years,
850 hrs of flying, I've never experienced a master
relay failure. While operating a fleet of rental
airplanes on an airport for 6 months, I experienced
one battery relay failure . . . on a relay that
was over 20 years old.
As a spares item compared against the numbers of
airplanes in service, even the least expensive battery
relays are a low-volume commodity.
To have experienced 'numerous' failures gives
rise to the question as to what kind of relays
were involved.
One other option I considered is to wire the starter from the
battery, to a manual disconnect (such as one in the links below),
then through the starter relay, thence the starter. One could attach
a push-pull cable or rod to the armature of this switch, and easily
disconnect the battery from the starter while sitting in the cockpit
in the unlikely event of the starter contacts getting welded
together, or the starter relay fails closed. This switch should
probably be located as close to the battery as possible.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1006/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-1/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/74105/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070030/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Unisteer/668/8070040/10002/-1
There are as many ways to wire an airplane as there
are creative installers of wires. What you describe
is, perhaps, unnecessarily complicated; motivated by
reasons that are not clear to me.
The solid state switch will be an interesting experiment
but I'm more interested in understanding your
displeasure with the legacy parts and architectures.
Bob . . .
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