AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 12/04/14


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:20 AM - Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Bob Verwey)
     2. 12:50 AM - Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Justin Jones)
     3. 01:25 AM - Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Bob Verwey)
     4. 07:03 AM - Re: Touchy (Bill Watson)
     5. 07:34 AM - Re: Sending two msgs to the list (user9253)
     6. 07:42 AM - Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Charlie England)
     7. 07:59 AM - Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 08:13 AM - Re: Always on supply (user9253)
     9. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Always on supply (Tim Andres)
    10. 10:49 AM - Re: Touchy (Eric M. Jones)
    11. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Always on supply (Bill Watson)
    12. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Always on supply (Tim Andres)
    13. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Sending two msgs to the list (Bill Bradburry)
    14. 06:44 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/03/14 (speedy11@aol.com)
    15. 08:42 PM - Dreamliner lithium fire final report (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 09:15 PM - Re: Fusible links (B Tomm)
    17. 10:28 PM - Re: Dreamliner lithium fire final report (B Tomm)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:20:45 AM PST US
    From: Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
    Subject: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME
    So I have a fat wire (00) running from the battery behind pilot seat, to the firewall, from whence the starter fat wire is connected on the engine side, and a 4 awg behind the firewall to the bus through a contactor. Its a Chevy V6, so the starter contactor is built into the starter. The fat wire is always hot at this stage, and I am looking for a solution in the form of a fuse/ fusible link near the battery so that in the event of an accident induced short, or an engaged starter hangup, that there is protection. Best... Bob Verwey On 2 December 2014 at 23:53, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> wrote: > Thanks Bob, > > I had done it on mine a couple years back, but the other day I was helping > a hangar neighbour make some improvements. He has a rear mounted battery > on a BD4 (engine in front). He has one electronic ignition which > was powered by an 18 awg wire connected on the firewall at the input power > terminal at the starter solenoid. This fat wire was only powered when the > master solenoid (located in back next to the battery) was active. Not > ideal for electrically dependant ignition. There was a spare 18 awg wire > already running all the way back to the battery and the owner wanted to use > that. I suggested that we fuse it but that fuse would have to activate > "slower" than the breaker on the panel. I therefore suggested a fusible > link and that is where I crossed the line. Since it was such a good idea, > and I had suggested it, it was suggested that I do it :) Not a problem > since I had materials left over. Just couldn't remember if the 22awg wire > (now hidden under the silicone impregnated sleeve) on my RV7 had been > stripped or not. My thinking initially was that it must have been stripped > because we really don't want any combustible material "inside" the fuse if > possible. It didn't strip well, so I re-did it without stripping as you > have confirmed. Thank you. > > Bevan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert L. > Nuckolls, III > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2014 11:41 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Fusible links > > At 11:44 2014-12-02, you wrote: > > > > I can't find the detail in the book. When making a fusible link, the inner > "fuse" wire is 22 AWG in this case. Is it necessary to strip the > insulation > off? > > > I presume you're asking about the insulation on the > 22AWG wire? No, in fact, you ADD insulation over it > > See http://tinyurl.com/msx5ofe > > Where are you considering the use of a fusible link? > I crafted that comic-book waaayyy back when we were > wrestling with the notion of extending the BUS in a > fuse block up to a one-terminal-BUS at the input side > of the alternator field breaker. A breaker upstream > of a crow-bar ov protection module. > > I think we also dabbled with the use of fusible links > on the meter-leads to a shunt. As a general rule, the > fusible link is attractive only when a fuse holder > is a little 'messy' . . . The TC fleet has used two > fuses in clips to protect ammeter wires for decades. > > [image: Emacs!] > > The last time I was able to walk down the A36 > production line (about 10 years ago) the clipped-in > fuses for various 'minor' tasks were quite visible. > > The need to extend the bus to accommodate the only > circuit breaker in the airplane was a special case. > > Like Figure Z-13/20, and to some extend Z-19, I've > regretted having published the ideas. While useful > and appropriate to the special cases, they've > morphed into other forms that may or may not > have been through PCQDR (preliminary, critical > and qualification design review). > > Can or should we talk about it? > > Bob . . . >


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:50:52 AM PST US
    From: Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME
    Bob, If you don=99t want to run your starter through the master contractor, I suggest you use a device like this. A location closer to the battery is better. A cable can be used in place of the push tube if you need. http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-2/10002/-1 <http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-2/10002/-1> During a run-on or stuck starter situation, it will take a while for the fusable link to burn through. This switch will also allow you to shut off the power to the starter any time you don=99t need it, such as the aircraft sitting on the ground or while doing maintenance. The last thing you want is to be working on the engine and accidentally short out the contacts of the starter and have that prop come swinging through. If you are doing maintenance on the starter itself, I would still disconnect the battery from the starter cable. Hope this helps. Justin > On Dec 3, 2014, at 11:19 PM, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote: > > So I have a fat wire (00) running from the battery behind pilot seat, to the firewall, from whence the starter fat wire is connected on the engine side, and a 4 awg behind the firewall to the bus through a contactor. > > Its a Chevy V6, so the starter contactor is built into the starter. > > The fat wire is always hot at this stage, and I am looking for a solution in the form of a fuse/ fusible link near the battery so that in the event of an accident induced short, or an engaged starter hangup, that there is protection. > > > > Best... > > Bob Verwey > > > On 2 December 2014 at 23:53, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net <mailto:fvalarm@rapidnet.net>> wrote: > Thanks Bob, > > I had done it on mine a couple years back, but the other day I was helping a hangar neighbour make some improvements. He has a rear mounted battery on a BD4 (engine in front). He has one electronic ignition which was powered by an 18 awg wire connected on the firewall at the input power terminal at the starter solenoid. This fat wire was only powered when the master solenoid (located in back next to the battery) was active. Not ideal for electrically dependant ignition. There was a spare 18 awg wire already running all the way back to the battery and the owner wanted to use that. I suggested that we fuse it but that fuse would have to activate "slower" than the breaker on the panel. I therefore suggested a fusible link and that is where I crossed the line. Since it was such a good idea, and I had suggested it, it was suggested that I do it :) Not a problem since I had materials left over. Just couldn't remember if the 22awg wire (now hidden under the silicone impregnated sleeve) on my RV7 had been stripped or not. My thinking initially was that it must have been stripped because we really don't want any combustible material "inside" the fuse if possible. It didn't strip well, so I re-did it without stripping as you have confirmed. Thank you. > > Bevan > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 11:41 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fusible links > > At 11:44 2014-12-02, you wrote: <fvalarm@rapidnet.net <mailto:fvalarm@rapidnet.net>> >> >> >> >> I can't find the detail in the book. When making a fusible link, the inner >> "fuse" wire is 22 AWG in this case. Is it necessary to strip the insulation >> off? > > I presume you're asking about the insulation on the > 22AWG wire? No, in fact, you ADD insulation over it > > See http://tinyurl.com/msx5ofe <http://tinyurl.com/msx5ofe> > > Where are you considering the use of a fusible link? > I crafted that comic-book waaayyy back when we were > wrestling with the notion of extending the BUS in a > fuse block up to a one-terminal-BUS at the input side > of the alternator field breaker. A breaker upstream > of a crow-bar ov protection module. > > I think we also dabbled with the use of fusible links > on the meter-leads to a shunt. As a general rule, the > fusible link is attractive only when a fuse holder > is a little 'messy' . . . The TC fleet has used two > fuses in clips to protect ammeter wires for decades. > > <400400db.jpg> > > The last time I was able to walk down the A36 > production line (about 10 years ago) the clipped-in > fuses for various 'minor' tasks were quite visible. > > The need to extend the bus to accommodate the only > circuit breaker in the airplane was a special case. > > Like Figure Z-13/20, and to some extend Z-19, I've > regretted having published the ideas. While useful > and appropriate to the special cases, they've > morphed into other forms that may or may not > have been through PCQDR (preliminary, critical > and qualification design review). > > Can or should we talk about it? > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:25:57 AM PST US
    From: Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME
    Thanks Justin, I have a very similar device lying on the shelf in my shop, used in boating applications. I guess I was just looking for some re-assurance that it is a good solution . Thanks! Best... Bob Verwey On 4 December 2014 at 10:49, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com> wrote: > Bob, > > If you don=99t want to run your starter through the master contract or, I > suggest you use a device like this. A location closer to the battery is > better. A cable can be used in place of the push tube if you need. > > http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-2/10002/-1 > > During a run-on or stuck starter situation, it will take a while for the > fusable link to burn through. This switch will also allow you to shut of f > the power to the starter any time you don=99t need it, such as the aircraft > sitting on the ground or while doing maintenance. The last thing you wan t > is to be working on the engine and accidentally short out the contacts of > the starter and have that prop come swinging through. If you are doing > maintenance on the starter itself, I would still disconnect the battery > from the starter cable. > > Hope this helps. > > Justin > > > On Dec 3, 2014, at 11:19 PM, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote: > > So I have a fat wire (00) running from the battery behind pilot seat, to > the firewall, from whence the starter fat wire is connected on the engine > side, and a 4 awg behind the firewall to the bus through a contactor. > > Its a Chevy V6, so the starter contactor is built into the starter. > > The fat wire is always hot at this stage, and I am looking for a solution > in the form of a fuse/ fusible link near the battery so that in the event > of an accident induced short, or an engaged starter hangup, that there is > protection. > > > Best... > > Bob Verwey > > > On 2 December 2014 at 23:53, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net> wrote: > >> Thanks Bob, >> >> I had done it on mine a couple years back, but the other day I was >> helping a hangar neighbour make some improvements. He has a rear mounte d >> battery on a BD4 (engine in front). He has one electronic ignition whic h >> was powered by an 18 awg wire connected on the firewall at the input pow er >> terminal at the starter solenoid. This fat wire was only powered when t he >> master solenoid (located in back next to the battery) was active. Not >> ideal for electrically dependant ignition. There was a spare 18 awg wir e >> already running all the way back to the battery and the owner wanted to use >> that. I suggested that we fuse it but that fuse would have to activate >> "slower" than the breaker on the panel. I therefore suggested a fusibl e >> link and that is where I crossed the line. Since it was such a good ide a, >> and I had suggested it, it was suggested that I do it :) Not a proble m >> since I had materials left over. Just couldn't remember if the 22awg wi re >> (now hidden under the silicone impregnated sleeve) on my RV7 had been >> stripped or not. My thinking initially was that it must have been strip ped >> because we really don't want any combustible material "inside" the fuse if >> possible. It didn't strip well, so I re-did it without stripping as you >> have confirmed. Thank you. >> >> Bevan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert L. >> Nuckolls, III >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2014 11:41 AM >> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Fusible links >> >> At 11:44 2014-12-02, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >> I can't find the detail in the book. When making a fusible link, the >> inner >> "fuse" wire is 22 AWG in this case. Is it necessary to strip the >> insulation >> off? >> >> >> I presume you're asking about the insulation on the >> 22AWG wire? No, in fact, you ADD insulation over it >> >> See http://tinyurl.com/msx5ofe >> >> Where are you considering the use of a fusible link? >> I crafted that comic-book waaayyy back when we were >> wrestling with the notion of extending the BUS in a >> fuse block up to a one-terminal-BUS at the input side >> of the alternator field breaker. A breaker upstream >> of a crow-bar ov protection module. >> >> I think we also dabbled with the use of fusible links >> on the meter-leads to a shunt. As a general rule, the >> fusible link is attractive only when a fuse holder >> is a little 'messy' . . . The TC fleet has used two >> fuses in clips to protect ammeter wires for decades. >> >> <400400db.jpg> >> >> The last time I was able to walk down the A36 >> production line (about 10 years ago) the clipped-in >> fuses for various 'minor' tasks were quite visible. >> >> The need to extend the bus to accommodate the only >> circuit breaker in the airplane was a special case. >> >> Like Figure Z-13/20, and to some extend Z-19, I've >> regretted having published the ideas. While useful >> and appropriate to the special cases, they've >> morphed into other forms that may or may not >> have been through PCQDR (preliminary, critical >> and qualification design review). >> >> Can or should we talk about it? >> >> Bob . . . >> > > > * > =========== m> ldersbooks.com> .com> com> om/contribution> =========== www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> =========== =========== > > * > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:03:34 AM PST US
    From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Touchy
    On 12/3/2014 10:13 AM, Joe wrote: > > There is an old saying, "Beggars can't be choosy." That applies to > the AeroElectric List where replies are posted by volunteers. If I > volunteered to help someone who then complained about my work, I would > stop giving help. There is one very knowledgeable volunteer on the > AeroElectric list who sometimes gives long winded and philosophical > responses. Sometimes his response answers my question and sometimes > not. Regardless, I appreciate it that he has volunteered his precious > time to address my issue. There are many other participants on this > forum who are also very knowledgeable. Some of them might not post a > response to a question because they are afraid of getting flamed. So > please treat everyone with respect. Do not post something that you > would not say face to face. As for a question not being answered, > maybe the question needs to be rephrased or needs to be more specific. > Joe Gores > I'd second that. Regarding 'brownout protection' in particular; I too am a builder that wanted/needed such protection for my 'kitchen sink' panel. Bob never 'liked it', always challenged it and I learned a lot along the way but in the end, it's my plane, I fly it, I got it and am very happy. Oh, forgot to mention, he was right on every point I can recall not that it really matters since the points of disagreements only involved personal operating practices, not electrons, systems or products. But I valued every interaction with every single person, particularly Bob, on this list. From my perspective, this is Bob's playpen, school, blog, whatever. It's his personality and expertise that has attracted the group of volunteers who have decided to play here. Without Bob, this doesn't work on any useful level, at least not in it's current form. It could be better, it could be worse but it is what it is. If you want to play, jump in. You can contribute, you can take away, or you can do a little of both. Or one can just walk away. It's free and not required reading. ...just one lister's opinion, nothing personal intended and I totally respect the OP's opinion Bill "a couple of on/off switches would have been cheaper than TCW brownout protection but I did it my way and I like it" Watson


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:34:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sending two msgs to the list
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    A disk failed on the web server a couple of days ago but has been fixed. If you still have problems, the cause could be at your end. Instead of using email to post, I use this link: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3 and enter my message directly onto the AeroElectric website. There is no issue with email program compatibility or concerns about rich text or formatting. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435317#435317


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:42:35 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME
    It would be a lot cheaper, lighter, and easier to just put a regular starter solenoid in series with the heavy starter wire at the source. The same control signal can activate the solenoid and the 'trigger' terminal on the starter itself. We had a similar discussion here a few months ago, and I think there's an example in the book. IIRC, the B&C starters are controlled this way. Charlie On 12/4/2014 3:24 AM, Bob Verwey wrote: > Thanks Justin, > > I have a very similar device lying on the shelf in my shop, used in > boating applications. > > I guess I was just looking for some re-assurance that it is a good > solution. > > Thanks! > > > Best... > > Bob Verwey > > > On 4 December 2014 at 10:49, Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com > <mailto:jmjones2000@mindspring.com>> wrote: > > Bob, > > If you dont want to run your starter through the master > contractor, I suggest you use a device like this. A location > closer to the battery is better. A cable can be used in place of > the push tube if you need. > > http://www.jegs.com/i/Flaming+River/898/FR1003-2/10002/-1 > > During a run-on or stuck starter situation, it will take a while > for the fusable link to burn through. This switch will also allow > you to shut off the power to the starter any time you dont need > it, such as the aircraft sitting on the ground or while doing > maintenance. The last thing you want is to be working on the > engine and accidentally short out the contacts of the starter and > have that prop come swinging through. If you are doing > maintenance on the starter itself, I would still disconnect the > battery from the starter cable. > > Hope this helps. > > Justin > > >> On Dec 3, 2014, at 11:19 PM, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com >> <mailto:bob.verwey@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> So I have a fat wire (00) running from the battery behind pilot >> seat, to the firewall, from whence the starter fat wire is >> connected on the engine side, and a 4 awg behind the firewall to >> the bus through a contactor. >> >> Its a Chevy V6, so the starter contactor is built into the starter. >> >> The fat wire is always hot at this stage, and I am looking for a >> solution in the form of a fuse/ fusible link near the battery so >> that in the event of an accident induced short, or an engaged >> starter hangup, that there is protection. >> >> >> >> Best... >> >> Bob Verwey >> >> >> On 2 December 2014 at 23:53, B Tomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net >> <mailto:fvalarm@rapidnet.net>> wrote: >> >> Thanks Bob, >> I had done it on mine a couple years back, but the other day >> I was helping a hangar neighbour make some improvements. He >> has a rear mounted battery on a BD4 (engine in front). He >> has one electronic ignition which was powered by an 18 awg >> wire connected on the firewall at the input power terminal at >> the starter solenoid. This fat wire was only powered when the >> master solenoid (located in back next to the battery) was >> active. Not ideal for electrically dependant ignition. There >> was a spare 18 awg wire already running all the way back to >> the battery and the owner wanted to use that. I suggested >> that we fuse it but that fuse would have to activate >> "slower" than the breaker on the panel. I therefore >> suggested a fusible link and that is where I crossed the >> line. Since it was such a good idea, and I had suggested it, >> it was suggested that I do it :) Not a problem since I had >> materials left over. Just couldn't remember if the 22awg >> wire (now hidden under the silicone impregnated sleeve) on >> my RV7 had been stripped or not. My thinking initially was >> that it must have been stripped because we really don't want >> any combustible material "inside" the fuse if possible. It >> didn't strip well, so I re-did it without stripping as you >> have confirmed. Thank you. >> Bevan >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On >> Behalf Of *Robert L. Nuckolls, III >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2014 11:41 AM >> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Fusible links >> >> At 11:44 2014-12-02, you wrote: >>> <fvalarm@rapidnet.net <mailto:fvalarm@rapidnet.net>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I can't find the detail in the book. When making a fusible >>> link, the inner >>> "fuse" wire is 22 AWG in this case. Is it necessary to strip >>> the insulation >>> off? >> >> I presume you're asking about the insulation on the >> 22AWG wire? No, in fact, you ADD insulation over it >> >> See http://tinyurl.com/msx5ofe >> >> Where are you considering the use of a fusible link? >> I crafted that comic-book waaayyy back when we were >> wrestling with the notion of extending the BUS in a >> fuse block up to a one-terminal-BUS at the input side >> of the alternator field breaker. A breaker upstream >> of a crow-bar ov protection module. >> >> I think we also dabbled with the use of fusible links >> on the meter-leads to a shunt. As a general rule, the >> fusible link is attractive only when a fuse holder >> is a little 'messy' . . . The TC fleet has used two >> fuses in clips to protect ammeter wires for decades. >> >> <400400db.jpg> >> >> The last time I was able to walk down the A36 >> production line (about 10 years ago) the clipped-in >> fuses for various 'minor' tasks were quite visible. >> >> The need to extend the bus to accommodate the only >> circuit breaker in the airplane was a special case. >> >> Like Figure Z-13/20, and to some extend Z-19, I've >> regretted having published the ideas. While useful >> and appropriate to the special cases, they've >> morphed into other forms that may or may not >> have been through PCQDR (preliminary, critical >> and qualification design review). >> >> Can or should we talk about it? >>


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:59:12 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME
    At 02:19 2014-12-04, you wrote: >So I have a fat wire (00) running from the battery behind pilot >seat, to the firewall, from whence the starter fat wire is connected >on the engine side, and a 4 awg behind the firewall to the bus >through a contactor. You mean that your battery contactor is not mounted adjacent to the battery? Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:13:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Always on supply
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    Is GPS position acquisition time a concern? I never noticed a delay problem with my Garmin GPS 496. If an always hot supply is really needed, then a 5 amp (or less) ATC inline fuse can be connected directly to the battery or battery side of the master contactor. Smaller fuses located in the instrument panel could be tapped off from the always-hot 5 amp circuit, but I do not think that the extra fuses are necessary. Maybe others can offer their opinion. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435321#435321


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:39:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Always on supply
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    Assuming a very low current for a "keep alive circuit", you could also just use a 10k ohm resistor installed at the source end of the wire instead of a fuse. Tim > On Dec 4, 2014, at 8:12 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Is GPS position acquisition time a concern? I never noticed a delay problem with my Garmin GPS 496. If an always hot supply is really needed, then a 5 amp (or less) ATC inline fuse can be connected directly to the battery or battery side of the master contactor. Smaller fuses located in the instrument panel could be tapped off from the always-hot 5 amp circuit, but I do not think that the extra fuses are necessary. Maybe others can offer their opinion. > Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435321#435321 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:49:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Touchy
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    > He was asking for advice on how to implement his skinning method - not advice on whether his method is the best, or even desirable. > I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric list as I am satisfied with them. I suppose some people act like they know everything and some people do know almost everything, and frequently telling those two types apart is difficult. Some people withhold their advice for fear that it may be thought too forward, or that they might be considered a "know-it-all". This is basically what Richard Hofstadter described in his book "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life.". "Intellect needs to be understood not as some kind of claim against the other human excellences for which a fatally high price has to be paid, but rather as a complement to them without which they cannot be fully consummated." I find that I feel wrong when I withhold opinions (or actions) that I feel would be beneficial to a group or an individual. Do I sometimes stick my opinions in when I should be quiet? Sure. Sometimes my wife tells me that. So if you post on the Aeroelectric, I might have a technical answer as to how something can be accomplished, or advice not to do it. Expect either or sometimes both. Xmas story: I once knew a guy who, every holiday season would wrap up a pack of cigarettes together with a bottle of cheap fortified wine, drove down to skid row and donated these gifts to homeless people living in alleyways and cardboard boxes on the streets of Los Angeles.... I have to admit that I thought this was a pretty irresponsible and uncharitable idea and said so, until a mutual friend told me that the guy had been homeless on the street himself for five years, and I was certainly in no position to pass judgment on his actions. I was humbled. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435332#435332


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:04:59 AM PST US
    From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Always on supply
    > > Is GPS position acquisition time a concern? I never noticed a delay problem with my Garmin GPS 496. If an always hot supply is really needed, then a 5 amp (or less) ATC inline fuse can be connected directly to the battery or battery side of the master contactor. Smaller fuses located in the instrument panel could be tapped off from the always-hot 5 amp circuit, but I do not think that the extra fuses are necessary. Maybe others can offer their opinion. > Joe > > I'd guess not. While it may be for a device that's constantly being powered on and off for ad hoc use, it would seem to me that GPS acquisition time matches up favorably with normal aircraft 'run up time'. That is, the GPS can find itself quite easily long before you are ready to depart. Conversely, an always on clock power circuit for the GPS or EFIS does not match up well with common aircraft cycle times. That is, many aircraft sit unused for extended periods. I'm sure someone can explain that the typical clock power drain is so minimal that extended down times aren't be an issue (?). It certainly gave me fits on my (3) GRT HX installation. Ironically I think they decided to pick-up the time from the GPS if that's possible.


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:06:47 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Always on supply
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    If a GPS has been off more than 30 minutes it needs to download a second data table from the satellites before it can get a fix, that takes longer then to get a position. GRT made a software change a while back to pick up current time from the gps, so you can D/C the keep alive circuit if you have current software and not worry about the parasitic drain on the battery. Haven't tried it yet myself, but that's what I've been told. Tim > On Dec 4, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote: > > >> >> Is GPS position acquisition time a concern? I never noticed a delay problem with my Garmin GPS 496. If an always hot supply is really needed, then a 5 amp (or less) ATC inline fuse can be connected directly to the battery or battery side of the master contactor. Smaller fuses located in the instrument panel could be tapped off from the always-hot 5 amp circuit, but I do not think that the extra fuses are necessary. Maybe others can offer their opinion. >> Joe > I'd guess not. While it may be for a device that's constantly being powered on and off for ad hoc use, it would seem to me that GPS acquisition time matches up favorably with normal aircraft 'run up time'. That is, the GPS can find itself quite easily long before you are ready to depart. > > Conversely, an always on clock power circuit for the GPS or EFIS does not match up well with common aircraft cycle times. That is, many aircraft sit unused for extended periods. I'm sure someone can explain that the typical clock power drain is so minimal that extended down times aren't be an issue (?). It certainly gave me fits on my (3) GRT HX installation. > > Ironically I think they decided to pick-up the time from the GPS if that's possible. > > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:44:56 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Sending two msgs to the list
    Thanks, Joe. It is probably resolved, I noticed that my request for help only showed up once. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 9:33 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sending two msgs to the list A disk failed on the web server a couple of days ago but has been fixed. If you still have problems, the cause could be at your end. Instead of using email to post, I use this link: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3 and enter my message directly onto the AeroElectric website. There is no issue with email program compatibility or concerns about rich text or formatting. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435317#435317


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:44:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/03/14
    From: speedy11@aol.com
    =0A Joe,=0AGood points. I suspect virtually everyone who freq uents this list has been a volunteer at one time or anothe r. We rarely get our panties in a wad and quit voluntee ring because someone complains. Rather we generally listen to the complaint and ponder whether the complaint is valid and , if so, how we can improve our volunteer work so as to create a satisfied customer (beggar). Doing volunteer work sh ould not mean that you can only have my volunteer informatio n if you jump through my hoops in order to get it.=0AI a m as grateful as anyone for the information obtained from th is list. I've learned a lot about building and maintaining aircraft electrical systems. Much of it is information that would have been difficult to get any other way. Learning about aeroelectricity required hours of study, hours spent on this list, and hours of practice. It was time well spent. I sincerely appreciate what Bob and others have voluntaril y done to assist.=0ASometimes the question does need to be r ephrased. It seems that more often the question needs more supporting information or qualifying information in order to be answered. That is true of the recent question regarding fus able links. Once the questioner better explained his situatio n, his question was clarified to the point that even I cou ld understand.=0AOften it is convenient to anomyously send comme nts to the list thinking that nobody is reading it. In fact, there are hundreds of people reading this list. Howev er, nothing said here would be unsuitable for in-person conver sation.=0AI have long been, and still am, of the opinion tha t getting an answer to a question posed to the list is p ainfully frustrating.=0AIn all of this, I mean no disrespect t o any of the list volunteers who donate their time to educ ate, inform and assist those of us who are less capable. Indeed, I appreciate their efforts.=0ARegards,=0AStan Sutterfield=0ADo not archive=0A=0A=0AThere is an old saying, "Beggars can't be choosy." That applies to the =0AAeroElectric List where re plies are posted by volunteers. If I =0Avolunteered to help someone who then complained about my work, I would =0Astop giving help. There is one very knowledgeable volunteer on t he =0AAeroElectric list who sometimes gives long winded and ph ilosophical =0Aresponses. Sometimes his response answers my que stion and sometimes =0Anot. Regardless, I appreciate it that he has volunteered his precious =0Atime to address my issue. There are many other participants on this =0Aforum who are also very knowledgeable. Some of them might not post a =0Are sponse to a question because they are afraid of getting flam ed. So =0Aplease treat everyone with respect. Do not pos t something that you =0Awould not say face to face. As for a question not being answered, maybe =0Athe question needs to be rephrased or needs to be more specific.=0AJoe Gores=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:42:31 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Dreamliner lithium fire final report
    See: http://tinyurl.com/pl97rqj Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:15:35 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Fusible links
    Bob , Was that photo of the fuses/wiring in the engine compartment? Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 11:41 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fusible links At 11:44 2014-12-02, you wrote: I can't find the detail in the book. When making a fusible link, the inner "fuse" wire is 22 AWG in this case. Is it necessary to strip the insulation off? I presume you're asking about the insulation on the 22AWG wire? No, in fact, you ADD insulation over it See http://tinyurl.com/msx5ofe Where are you considering the use of a fusible link? I crafted that comic-book waaayyy back when we were wrestling with the notion of extending the BUS in a fuse block up to a one-terminal-BUS at the input side of the alternator field breaker. A breaker upstream of a crow-bar ov protection module. I think we also dabbled with the use of fusible links on the meter-leads to a shunt. As a general rule, the fusible link is attractive only when a fuse holder is a little 'messy' . . . The TC fleet has used two fuses in clips to protect ammeter wires for decades. Emacs! The last time I was able to walk down the A36 production line (about 10 years ago) the clipped-in fuses for various 'minor' tasks were quite visible. The need to extend the bus to accommodate the only circuit breaker in the airplane was a special case. Like Figure Z-13/20, and to some extend Z-19, I've regretted having published the ideas. While useful and appropriate to the special cases, they've morphed into other forms that may or may not have been through PCQDR (preliminary, critical and qualification design review). Can or should we talk about it? Bob . . .


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:28:09 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Dreamliner lithium fire final report
    Very interesting read. Sound like a thorough investigation. One thing I noticed that there was no discussion (that I could find) of changing to a more traditional battery type or another version of Lithium such as LiFePo. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 8:40 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dreamliner lithium fire final report --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> See: http://tinyurl.com/pl97rqj Bob . . .




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