Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:03 AM - Re: Re: Touchy (Bob Verwey)
2. 03:09 AM - Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Bob Verwey)
3. 08:12 AM - Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Jeff Luckey)
4. 08:56 AM - Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 12:07 PM - For sale (Larry Mac Donald)
6. 12:39 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__For_sale? ()
7. 02:01 PM - Bad overvoltage module? (Weaver, Erich)
8. 02:34 PM - Re: Bad overvoltage module? (C&K)
9. 02:45 PM - Re: Bad overvoltage module? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Eric, nice post, kinda reminds me of the Warren Buffet quote:
*Wall Street is the only place that **people ride to in a Rolls Royce to
get advice from those who take the subway. *
Best...
Bob Verwey
On 4 December 2014 at 20:48, Eric M. Jones <emjones@charter.net> wrote:
> emjones@charter.net>
>
>
> > He was asking for advice on how to implement his skinning method - not
> advice on whether his method is the best, or even desirable.
> > I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric
> list as I am satisfied with them.
>
>
> I suppose some people act like they know everything and some people do
> know almost everything, and frequently telling those two types apart is
> difficult.
>
> Some people withhold their advice for fear that it may be thought too
> forward, or that they might be considered a "know-it-all". This is
> basically what Richard Hofstadter described in his book
> "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life.". "Intellect needs to be understo
od
> not as some kind of claim against the other human excellences for which a
> fatally high price has to be paid, but rather as a complement to them
> without which they cannot be fully consummated."
>
> I find that I feel wrong when I withhold opinions (or actions) that I fee
l
> would be beneficial to a group or an individual. Do I sometimes stick my
> opinions in when I should be quiet? Sure. Sometimes my wife tells me that
.
>
> So if you post on the Aeroelectric, I might have a technical answer as to
> how something can be accomplished, or advice not to do it. Expect either
or
> sometimes both.
>
> Xmas story: I once knew a guy who, every holiday season would wrap up a
> pack of cigarettes together with a bottle of cheap fortified wine, drove
> down to skid row and donated these =9Cgifts=9D to homeless pe
ople living in
> alleyways and cardboard boxes on the streets of Los Angeles....
>
> I have to admit that I thought this was a pretty irresponsible and
> uncharitable idea and said so, until a mutual friend told me that the guy
> had been homeless on the street himself for five years, and I was certain
ly
> in no position to pass judgment on his actions. I was humbled.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435332#435332
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME |
Correct Bob N, I have only a 70amp relay to feed the bus.
[image: Inline images 1]
Best...
Bob Verwey
On 4 December 2014 at 17:58, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 02:19 2014-12-04, you wrote:
>
>> So I have a fat wire (00) running from the battery behind pilot seat, to
>> the firewall, from whence the starter fat wire is connected on the engine
>> side, and a 4 awg behind the firewall to the bus through a contactor.
>>
>
> You mean that your battery contactor is not
> mounted adjacent to the battery?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME |
BobV,
The rule of thumb is to keep the fat wires that are bolted directly to B+ as short
as possible. My personal rule is less than 18 inches.
Is there a reason not to add a traditional start solenoid right at the battery?
In your case is may be redundant but it keeps the un-protected feeder length
short. You would have to move the master relay to that position also - so that's
another few feet of #4. This is probably less expensive than the manual
disconnect & it keeps the big starter cable inert except during cranking.
-Jeff
On Monday, December 8, 2014 3:25 AM, Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com> wrote:
Correct Bob N, I have only a 70amp relay to feed the bus.
Best...
Bob Verwey
On 4 December 2014 at 17:58, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
>At 02:19 2014-12-04, you wrote:
>
>So I have a fat wire (00) running from the battery behind pilot seat, to the firewall,
from whence the starter fat wire is connected on the engine side, and
a 4 awg behind the firewall to the bus through a contactor.
>>
> You mean that your battery contactor is not
> mounted adjacent to the battery?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>===================================
>br>
fts!)
>r>
>
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>e.com" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>" target="_blank">www.mrrace.com
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>===================================
>-
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links NOW VARIATION ON A THEME |
At 05:08 2014-12-08, you wrote:
>Correct Bob N, I have only a 70amp relay to feed the bus.
Oh yeah, I seem to recall this condition from an
earlier thread . . . one of the 70A rated plastic
relays with fast-on tabs?
You're probably aware of the variances in your
system when compared with the legacy design
philosophies harvested from the TC aircraft world.
One of those ideas goes toward making ship's wiring
max-cold when crew operated controls are placed
at OFF. This generally calls for placing disconnects
in major conductors (meaning protected at more than 5A)
as close to the source as practical. Hence the oft repeated
picture below (Cessna 150 1962 and before) where
we see the battery contactor mounted right on the
battery box.
Emacs!
If your design goals dictate alternate configurations
for managing power in your major wires, then it's
a good thing to take a mental expedition through
the woods and briar patches of Failure Modes Effects
Analysis. If you're considering fault protection for
any conductor, fat wires, bus feeders, wires of any
size . . . consider all the circumstances under which
that circuit protection might be expected to operate.
Two conditions which are high on the list in the TC
aircraft world call for minimizing risk for post-crash
fire -AND- making sure that some mechanic doesn't swing
a wrench against an always hot fat-feeder terminal
when he/she erroneously believes that ship's wiring
is max-cold.
A guy I worked with right out high school was under
a oil-patch truck routing cables for a two-way radio
we were installing. I was working in the cab and
stuffing a wire down through a grommet that he
was going to attach to the starter contactor.
At some point I heard this loud yell followed
by his wristwatch flying out from under the truck
in a smoking trajectory that hit the wall. Seems he'd
forgotten one if his check-list items for disconnecting
battery ground cable before starting the job. Burned him
pretty bad . . . destroyed a new watch he was really
proud of. Unfortunately, oil patch trucks don't have
battery contactors.
The point is, if you choose to do something different,
please think through the hazards and then be aware
of them as part of the risk management for the
use and maintenance of your airplane.
Speaking of battery contactors . . .
A couple weeks ago I expressed some skepticism
for a statement from SkyTec literature asserting
that Cessna's starter contactors were of the
continuous duty type and therefore, ill suited
to the task.
I didn't start there until '64 and the first
couple of years were spent learning to write, illustrate
and publish accessory kits for radio installations.
The electrical group was right across the isle
from me and we had a lot of conversation but
I was oblivious to many details of the electrical
systems both present and historical.
So, I've been digging up service and parts catalogs
on the older Cessnas. The image above was captured
from a 1962 and prior service manual were we're
shown a Cutler-Hammer 6041 style contactor used
as a battery contactor. I'm discovering that the
wine-barrel RBM controls devices familiar to me
came along sometime in the early/mid 60's. The
oldest airplane I've flown fitted with an electrical
system was a '46 120-1/2 . . . the system was
added after it left the factory . . . I think
it had a wine-barrel battery contactor. Didn't
need a starter contactor (had cockpit pull-
handle, mechanical engagement).
All of the catalog/service data I've gathered
so far calls out Cessna source control drawings
for all contactors . . . so I'm not yet privy
to manufacturer's source data. I'm compiling a
list of source control numbers. Next time I'm
inside the hallowed halls of Textron, I'll put
the microscope to SkyTec's somewhat startling
assertions. When I began writing narratives
for the service manuals, I'm recalling that there
were distinctions made between battery (continuous)
and starter (intermittent) duty wine-barrel
contactors. I'll go find out . . .
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re:_AeroElectric-List:_For_sale? |
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Bad overvoltage module? |
I have a Z-13/8 electrical system on my RV-7A. While finishing up a remode
l of my panel, I tested my new switches and found that when I turned on the
backup PM alternator with engine off, my 5 amp circuit breaker instantly t
ripped. Checked the switch and traced out my wiring and both seem fine, s
o I now suspect that either the crowbar over-voltage module or the associat
ed S8005-1 relay from B&C is bad. I removed the over-voltage module and my
multimeter indicates continuity between the two wires. Im thinking that s
hould only occur when there is an over-voltage event, so my module must be
bad, letting the current bypass the relay altogether and tripping my breake
r. Am I thinking this through correctly?
Thanks
erich
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Bad overvoltage module? |
Sounds like a good diagnosis to me Erich.
Especially if the circuit breaker does not trip with the module
disconnected.
Ken
On 08/12/2014 4:59 PM, Weaver, Erich wrote:
>
> I have a Z-13/8 electrical system on my RV-7A. While finishing up a
> remodel of my panel, I tested my new switches and found that when I
> turned on the backup PM alternator with engine off, my 5 amp circuit
> breaker instantly tripped. Checked the switch and traced out my
> wiring and both seem fine, so I now suspect that either the crowbar
> over-voltage module or the associated S8005-1 relay from B&C is bad.
> I removed the over-voltage module and my multimeter indicates
> continuity between the two wires. Im thinking that should only occur
> when there is an over-voltage event, so my module must be bad, letting
> the current bypass the relay altogether and tripping my breaker. Am I
> thinking this through correctly?
>
> Thanks
>
> erich
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bad overvoltage module? |
At 15:59 2014-12-08, you wrote:
>I have a Z-13/8 electrical system on my RV-7A. While finishing up a
>remodel of my panel, I tested my new switches and found that when I
>turned on the backup PM alternator with engine off, my 5 amp circuit
>breaker instantly tripped. Checked the switch and traced out my
>wiring and both seem fine, so I now suspect that either the crowbar
>over-voltage module or the associated S8005-1 relay from B&C is
>bad. I removed the over-voltage module and my multimeter indicates
>continuity between the two wires. Im thinking that should only
>occur when there is an over-voltage event, so my module must be bad,
>letting the current bypass the relay altogether and tripping my
>breaker. Am I thinking this through correctly?
Sounds right. Did you get it from B&C or from me?
Doesn't matter. Drop it to me in an envelope and
I'll repair/replace it as appropriate.
Bob . . .
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