Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:49 AM - Power stabilizer wiring (Weaver, Erich)
2. 07:28 AM - Re: How does the Ducatti rectifier/regulator work? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:50 AM - SD8 output at 28V? (digidocs)
4. 01:15 PM - Re: Power stabilizer wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 01:37 PM - Re: SD8 output at 28V? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 01:53 PM - Re: SD8 output at 28V? (digidocs)
7. 04:59 PM - Power stabilizer wiring (Weaver, Erich)
8. 05:55 PM - N811HB analysis files (Bower, Bob)
9. 06:17 PM - Re: Power stabilizer wiring (Jeff Luckey)
Message 1
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Subject: | Power stabilizer wiring |
I should have stated previously that the manufacturer has indicated that failure
of the IPS results in pass through of the bus voltage. Assuming that's true,
operation of the EFIS should continue unless I was in a brownout situation.
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: How does the Ducatti rectifier/regulator |
work?
Yes but not immediately.
I did a one off many years ago for the positive side of a wound field
alternator with a commercial IC that has worked out well. I'd like
to regulate the charging on some small equipment that is hard on
batteries and I also told myself that I'd roll my own if I ever need
another John Deere unit for the airplane. I like more temperature
compensation than commercial regulators incorporate (and my batteries
seem to agree...)
Ken
Understand. If that project bubbles to the top of
your to-do list, lets talk. If you like, I could
perhaps contribute to your project with an etched circuit
board layout.
Keep an eye on developments in the rectifier/regulator
world for PM alternators. The Ducati design is now probably
pushing 40 years old and there's been a lot of new
ideas and products added to the mix in the interim.
I'm exploring some of the COTS options for a client
and may have some recommendations to share in the
not too distant future. Then there's those lithium
thingys getting a toe hold in the marketplace.
They're here to stay. They're not the ticking time-
bomb we've been let to imagine. BUT . . . they
are NOT lead-acid drop-ins. Every kid and his dog
wanted to get into the SVLA business wayyyyy back when
and those unable to perform were a brief flash on
the horizon. I suspect the lithium products will
bubble up and be filtered in the marketplace as
well. I'm working the 4th installment to the lithium
saga for Kitplanes.
I love this business . . . tomorrow . . . you can
do more for $less$ with better performance, lower
weight, smaller space than you can today. It's
exciting.
But just because the Ducati style is dated does
not mean that it's unserviceable or unworthy
of consideration for improvements. It's your
kitchen chef . . . variations on a theme may be
just what's needed to fit your design goals.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | SD8 output at 28V? |
Hello Aeroelectric,
Does anyone have information about the SD8 output performance at 28V?
B&C are advertising a 28V version, but were unable to provide any data when I asked.
I also took Bob's 12.5V/13.8V output ratings at 3100 alternator RPM and built a
Thevenin equivalent circuit. That shows open circuit voltage of only ~20V.
Hopefully that's not an accurate way to model this device.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436011#436011
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Power stabilizer wiring |
At 18:33 2014-12-21, you wrote:
Rather than a standby battery I am installing a 4 amp
rated 'Intelligent Power Stabilizer' on my z-13/8 wired RV for
brownout protection to one of my two EFIS screens during startup. The
EFIS draws 1 amp. The manual says to install a 12 amp fuse on the
power inlet to the IPS unit and a second 5 amp inline fuse on the
wire providing power from the IPS to the secondary power inlet on the
EFIS. First question: the 12 amp fuse can just be on my main bus so
no hassle there but i would rather not have the 5 amp inline fuse
buried behind the subpanel with the IPS if its not absolutely
necessary. Do I definitely need both fuses for adequate protection?
Fuses should be part of your system for one reason
only . . . to protect wires and to prevent a failure
on one feeder from propagating into other systems. Hence
the common-bus/multiple-feeder architectures with individual
protection on each feeder.
If the manufacturer calls for a fuse in the output lead,
then it's very much worth your time and effort to inquire
as to the circumstances under which that fuse might
operate. Not being familiar with the design of his
product, we're in a poor position to conduct an FMEA.
I hope that his reply would state that the output fuse
is unnecessary.
If the device is rated at 4A output (56 watts) and
assuming at LEAST 80% efficiency then input demand
would be on the order of 75 watts. Under brown out
conditions (8 volts or so) the current TRANSIENT
would be on the order of 10A . . .so the 12A
protection call-out seems reasonable for a FULLY
loaded system.
Your system loads as installed will be approximately
1/4 rated max values so you have plenty of headroom in
terms of wire protection. 12A call-out is a bit funky
. . . go for 10A . . . a fuse you can actually buy.
Second question: Any reason the IPS can't be used as the sole source
of power to the EFIS rather than as backup? If I wired the IPS to
the ebus I have the backup alternator I can use should the primary
fail. Maybe the IPS is not intended for full time operation or
perhaps it draws more current than practical for the ebus?
Energy is energy is energy. These switchmode power supplies
are constant power systems meaning that as bus voltage falls,
INPUT current will rise to maintain a constant power at the
output terminals. Your 1A EFIS demand (14W) means normal bus
(14.5v) draw is about 1.3A, at end of life on battery only
ops (11v) the draw rises to about 1.5A. During brown out
transient of say 8v, the draw rises to 2.2A. So 10A
circuit protection from the bus seems quite adequate.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: SD8 output at 28V? |
At 12:49 2014-12-22, you wrote:
>
>Hello Aeroelectric,
>
>Does anyone have information about the SD8 output performance at 28V?
>
>B&C are advertising a 28V version, but were unable to provide any
>data when I asked.
>
>I also took Bob's 12.5V/13.8V output ratings at 3100 alternator RPM
>and built a Thevenin equivalent circuit. That shows open circuit
>voltage of only ~20V. Hopefully that's not an accurate way to model
>this device.
>
>David
Both 14 and 28v versions are wound by B&C. The
28v version would have more turns on it than
the 14v. The alternator's output is roughly
limited by the magnetics. This is a 100W alternator
frame so I would imagine that the 28v performance
for current is 1/2 that of the 14v version.
I'll be at B&C in then next few weeks . . .I'll
check for sure.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: SD8 output at 28V? |
Bob,
That's really helpful information. I currently have the 14V version and B&C told
me that I could switch it to 28V by simply changing the regulator. It sounds
like that may not be the case. (no pun intended)
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436018#436018
Message 7
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Subject: | Power stabilizer wiring |
I had a conversation with the manufacturer today. Given the low amp draw for my
specific use, he was comfortable with reducing the 12 amp fuse to 7.5 amp and
eliminating the downstream 5 amp fuse. Not sure a 7.5 amp fuse is readily
available, but will go with 10 if not. There is also no reason why the IPS can't
be used as the sole source of power to the EFIS. There are multiple redundant
paths built into the unit so that the power stabilizing capability could
essentially vaporize and the unit would default to passing through available
buss voltage, so there is very little risk of losing power to my EFIS.
I do like the fact that this unit is small and maintenance free, unlike a backup
battery that is more often used for this anti brownout purpose.
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Message 8
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Subject: | N811HB analysis files |
Bob N. - In a recent post you referred us to http://www.aeroelectric.com/Re
ference_Docs/Accidents/N811HB_Feb2008_LA-IVp/ for study.
Many of the files in this folder are .wmv files, i.e. video files. Should t
hese files be PDF files? Thanks.
Bob Bower
RV-6A builder
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Power stabilizer wiring |
Erich,
You appear to be interested in design and analysis so you may be interested in
the attached document. It's a design where redundancy & brown-out prevention
were initial design criteria and baked-in from the beginning - therefore it does
not require bolting-on additional widgets. In addition it's surprisingly straight-forward.
-Jeff
On Monday, December 22, 2014 5:14 PM, "Weaver, Erich" <erich.weaver@urs.com> wrote:
I had a conversation with the manufacturer today. Given the low amp draw for my
specific use, he was comfortable with reducing the 12 amp fuse to 7.5 amp and
eliminating the downstream 5 amp fuse. Not sure a 7.5 amp fuse is readily
available, but will go with 10 if not. There is also no reason why the IPS can't
be used as the sole source of power to the EFIS. There are multiple redundant
paths built into the unit so that the power stabilizing capability could
essentially vaporize and the unit would default to passing through available
buss voltage, so there is very little risk of losing power to my EFIS.
I do like the fact that this unit is small and maintenance free, unlike a backup
battery that is more often used for this anti brownout purpose.
This e-mail and any attachments contain URS Corporation confidential information
that may be proprietary or privileged. If you receive this message in error
or are not the intended recipient, you should not retain, distribute, disclose
or use any of this information and you should destroy the e-mail and any attachments
or copies.
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