---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/13/15: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:56 AM - Re: Question about monitoring output in two alternator configura (user9253) 2. 08:19 AM - Failing over voltage module (Rob Henderson) 3. 08:43 AM - Re: Question about monitoring output in two alternator configura (jonlaury) 4. 09:09 AM - Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage (Tim Olson) 5. 10:11 AM - Using the quote button (jonlaury) 6. 10:14 AM - Re: Failing over voltage module (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 11:52 AM - Re: Failing over voltage module (Rob Henderson) 8. 11:57 AM - Re: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage (Rene) 9. 12:46 PM - Re: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 12:54 PM - Re: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 01:23 PM - Re: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage (C&K) 12. 05:10 PM - Re: Using the quote button (user9253) 13. 09:27 PM - Re: Re: Question about monitoring output in two alternator configura (Dan Charrois) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:54 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about monitoring output in two alternator configura From: "user9253" Becoming used to seeing zero amps on the standby alternator is of no concern because an EFIS can be setup to alarm at user selected parameters. In other words, you would setup the EFIS to alarm when the standby alternator current is NOT zero. Also, many EFIS allow the user to choose what to display on the main page. So, display the standby alternator current on another page, not the main page. The purpose of having two alternators is for redundancy in case one fails. If the two alternators share one shunt, redundancy is defeated. Would both alternators be disconnected if the main alternator current limiter blows? An ammeter on the standby alternator is not a necessity. In the event of main alternator failure, the voltmeter can be just as useful to help the pilot shed non essential loads. Just shut off loads one at a time until system voltage rises up to 13 volts (like Bob suggested). Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438300#438300 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:24 AM PST US From: "Rob Henderson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Failing over voltage module Bob I purchased 1 of your OVM 2 years ago and have been flying with it for a year I have a Glastar with a Subaru 2.5L and IR 70 Amp alternator using Z19RB as a platform I modified the alt field circuit to use the OVM and installed a relay in the B lead using the Z24 interim The circuit breaker for the alt field started to randomly trip and during troubleshooting I found the OVM was tripping even on battery only operations. Can I send the part back for analysis? Thanks -Rob ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:18 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about monitoring output in two alternator configura From: "jonlaury" [/quote] Of course, the next question I'd have for them is whether their hall effect sensor is big enough to accommodate both alternator B-leads.. Thanks for your response! Dan --- Dan Charrois President, Syzygy Research & Technology Phone: 780-961-2213[/quote] Dan, I set up my 2 alt system for the AFS 4500 using their HE sensor. I was able to fit #8 & #10 tefzel covered wires through it. The short # 10 wire (Alt 2) can easily handle the 25 amps for keeping my ED (EFI, EI) ship afloat. John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438309#438309 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:10 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage I've got an oddball question that I've been pondering for a while. I have an older Plane Power 70A internal regulated alternator. The output voltage is always 13.9V at least as detected by my engine monitor Since it's internally regulated, and has it's own overvoltage module, and ties to the bus through I think a 5A breaker, I'm not sure what I would be able to do to raise the output voltage. They told me that the regulator is fixed and non-adjustable, so on the alternator end I'm sure there's not much I could do. Now I've flown with it for almost 1,100 hours now and it's never been an issue, but I do use an Odyssey battery as my primary and some AGM batteries in my aux bus. So I think ideally I'd raise the voltage up to something just slightly higher if I wanted to optimize my battery charge state. Is there any simple way of tricking the alternator into thinking the bus voltage is slightly lower than it is so that it raises the output slightly? I envision some way to drop voltage on the sense line so that it jacks it up another .5V or so. Just wondering what kinds of ideas anyone has, or if maybe anyone else has done it and knows what would work. Tim ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:31 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Using the quote button From: "jonlaury" Other than quoting from an original post, my attempts at using the quote button have had mixed results in getting the selected text to appear with the characteristic blue background. Tried looking in the Matronics Email Lists FAQ, but no joy. Can someone point me to an explanation of how to quote from a post that is already filled with quotes, so that my selection appears with blue background in my reply ? Thanks, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438313#438313 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:58 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Failing over voltage module At 10:18 2015-02-13, you wrote: Bob I purchased 1 of your OVM 2 years ago and have been flying with it for a year I have a Glastar with a Subaru 2.5L and IR 70 Amp alternator using Z19RB as a platform I modified the alt field circuit to use the OVM and installed a relay in the B lead using the Z24 interim The circuit breaker for the alt field started to randomly trip and during troubleshooting I found the OVM was tripping even on battery only operations. Can I send the part back for analysis? Thanks -Rob Absolutely! Please do. It will be repaired/replaced under our lifetime warranty. It's a rare circumstance that I can get the carcass back on a fielded failure to perform. Box 130, Medicine Lodge, KS 67104-0130 Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:17 AM PST US From: "Rob Henderson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Failing over voltage module Thanks I will try to get it out today -Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 10:13 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Failing over voltage module --> At 10:18 2015-02-13, you wrote: Bob I purchased 1 of your OVM 2 years ago and have been flying with it for a year I have a Glastar with a Subaru 2.5L and IR 70 Amp alternator using Z19RB as a platform I modified the alt field circuit to use the OVM and installed a relay in the B lead using the Z24 interim The circuit breaker for the alt field started to randomly trip and during troubleshooting I found the OVM was tripping even on battery only operations. Can I send the part back for analysis? Thanks -Rob Absolutely! Please do. It will be repaired/replaced under our lifetime warranty. It's a rare circumstance that I can get the carcass back on a fielded failure to perform. Box 130, Medicine Lodge, KS 67104-0130 Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:09 AM PST US From: "Rene" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage Tim, depending on if you have an e-bus. I see the same thing on my GRT EIS. It is on my e-bus. If I look at the power bus, then it is 14.2. Just recently I added a GRT Sport (long story) as my backup and it is NOT on my ebus and it showed 14.2 all the way to Vegas and back this week (first real flight with it). I never tried to measure my power bus before and my other EFIS is on the e-bus. I had the same concern as you until this week. One way to check, is to turn on your e-bus and see what happens. When I did, my EIS and EFIS (SPORT) voltage reading was the same. Only 500 hours...not a 1000 like you....and I finally figured it out. I did not think the diode was supposed to drop the voltage that much.....but it sure appears to. My normal full power voltage reading on the EIS is 13.9 or sometimes 14.0. Rene' 801-721-6080 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 10:08 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage I've got an oddball question that I've been pondering for a while. I have an older Plane Power 70A internal regulated alternator. The output voltage is always 13.9V at least as detected by my engine monitor Since it's internally regulated, and has it's own overvoltage module, and ties to the bus through I think a 5A breaker, I'm not sure what I would be able to do to raise the output voltage. They told me that the regulator is fixed and non-adjustable, so on the alternator end I'm sure there's not much I could do. Now I've flown with it for almost 1,100 hours now and it's never been an issue, but I do use an Odyssey battery as my primary and some AGM batteries in my aux bus. So I think ideally I'd raise the voltage up to something just slightly higher if I wanted to optimize my battery charge state. Is there any simple way of tricking the alternator into thinking the bus voltage is slightly lower than it is so that it raises the output slightly? I envision some way to drop voltage on the sense line so that it jacks it up another .5V or so. Just wondering what kinds of ideas anyone has, or if maybe anyone else has done it and knows what would work. Tim ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:20 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage Is there any simple way of tricking the alternator into thinking the bus voltage is slightly lower than it is so that it raises the output slightly? I envision some way to drop voltage on the sense line so that it jacks it up another .5V or so. Just wondering what kinds of ideas anyone has, or if maybe anyone else has done it and knows what would work. It depends on where the internal regulator senses bus voltage. If it gets data from the b-lead terminal, there's nothing you can do but swap out the regulator and hope the new one is more SVLA-friendly. Try putting a 1N540x diode in series with the control wire off the 5A breaker. If it senses voltage through this lead, then the approx 0.5 volt drop in the diode will spoof the regulator into boosting output voltage at the b-lead. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:27 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage At 13:55 2015-02-13, you wrote: Tim, depending on if you have an e-bus. I see the same thing on my GRT EIS. It is on my e-bus. If I look at the power bus, then it is 14.2. Just recently I added a GRT Sport (long story) as my backup and it is NOT on my ebus and it showed 14.2 all the way to Vegas and back this week (first real flight with it). I never tried to measure my power bus before and my other EFIS is on the e-bus. I had the same concern as you until this week. Ah . . . . but of course. It didn't occur to me that his voltage sample was coming off a diode-isolated e-bus. One way to check, is to turn on your e-bus and see what happens. When I did, my EIS and EFIS (SPORT) voltage reading was the same. Only 500 hours...not a 1000 like you....and I finally figured it out. I did not think the diode was supposed to drop the voltage that much.....but it sure appears to. My normal full power voltage reading on the EIS is 13.9 or sometimes 14.0. The typical drop across a silicon rectifier is 0.6 to 0.7 volts. A Schottky rectifier will be a little less. Rene's suggestion to close the e-bus alternate feed will, of course, bypass the normal feed path diode and raise the e-bus voltage. If this describes your situation, then all is right with the universe and the 13.9 volt reading is predictable and acceptable. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:20 PM PST US From: C&K Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Raise internal reg. Alternator voltage If this is not simply an e-buss issue, how much capacity and life is actually being lost? There is likely some temperature compensation in the regulator if it is running hot. Is the EIS accurate? I know mine (different model) is off by a couple of tenths. I would be happy with 13.9 volts on an AGM battery in hot conditions as there is no need for a fast charge in my aircraft. Different story today with subzero temperatures here. Admittedly I don't worry much about my batteries with Z14 architecture. Ken On 13/02/2015 3:45 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > Is there any simple way of tricking the alternator > into thinking the bus voltage is slightly lower than it > is so that it raises the output slightly? > I envision some way to drop voltage on the sense line > so that it jacks it up another .5V or so. > > Just wondering what kinds of ideas anyone has, or if > maybe anyone else has done it and knows what would work. > > It depends on where the internal regulator senses > bus voltage. If it gets data from the b-lead terminal, > there's nothing you can do but swap out the regulator > and hope the new one is more SVLA-friendly. > > Try putting a 1N540x diode in series with the > control wire off the 5A breaker. If it senses > voltage through this lead, then the approx 0.5 > volt drop in the diode will spoof the regulator > into boosting output voltage at the b-lead. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:35 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Using the quote button From: "user9253" > Can someone point me to an explanation of how to quote from a post that is already filled with quotes, so that my selection appears with blue background in my reply ?" First of all I go to the matronics website: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3 and click on a topic. Then I select the text to be quoted. Then copy it. Then click on the PostReply button. Then click on the QUOTE button. Then paste. Then click on the QUOTE button again. Then click on PREVIEW to see what it looks like before posting it. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438336#438336 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about monitoring output in two alternator configura From: Dan Charrois > I have an electrical system with dual alternators (primary and backup) and have a question with regards to monitoring their output current. Thanks, everyone, for your clarification and insight on this. I can definitely see how running both alternators through a single shunt for current monitoring, though it would work electrically, does introduce a single point of failure that really doesn't need to be there. A hall sensor does seem the more sensible choice if I were to want to monitor the output of both alternators with a single sensor, or like Bob and others suggested, perhaps current monitoring of the backup alternator isn't even necessary considering that voltage monitoring of the bus is the primary indicator of electrical health anyway. Dan --- Dan Charrois President, Syzygy Research & Technology Phone: 780-961-2213 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.