Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:09 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/23/15 (David Josephson)
2. 04:51 AM - Having several issues with my installation (curts63)
3. 07:47 AM - Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Charles Brame)
4. 08:18 AM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:38 AM - Re: Having several issues with my installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:54 AM - Re: Having several issues with my installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 12:08 PM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (jrevens)
8. 02:29 PM - Re: Having several issues with my installation (Jeff Luckey)
9. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Charlie England)
10. 10:43 PM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (John MacCallum)
11. 11:05 PM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Bill Maxwell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/23/15 |
>
> Time: 08:23:42 PM PST US
> From: John <jrevens@comcast.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna
>
> Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft comm
> antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the panel-mounted
> radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I could run the
> cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline to break the
> connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit. That's what I
> did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a panel-mounted male BNC
> connector that could possibly be used to connect the handheld without
> physically disconnecting the failed radio, providing that radio is
> switched off. If this is possible, I'm wondering if some kind of antenna
> switch or splitter would be necessary.
Your first answer was better. A splitter is not practical, given the need to maintain
low loss for each radio. You would need a switch, and there are good quality
coaxial toggle switches. They are expensive and fairly large. There are
a few surplus ones on ebay now with N connectors, search 'coaxial toggle switch.'
There are cheap ones made for ham/CB/TV but I would not try to use one of
those.
I think I would use a separate antenna instead.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Having several issues with my installation |
First, I'm not an avionics person nor do I play one on TV. I bought a used Arion
Lightning, composite airplane. I didn't like the original EFIS, so I elected
to install a new Dual Screen Garmin G3X Touch system. Complete with dual ADHRS,
Magnotometer, Autopilot, AP Controller, GDL-39R, remote transponder, remote
radio, GNS-430W, GAD29, audio panel, and a coffee pot. This is a 12v system
using a Jabiru 3300 engine. The fuel probes are capacitance made by Centroid
Products, sold through MGL.
I had an avionics guy do most of the wiring and guide me through the process.
We did not have the luxury of a true avionics shop, like most, trying to save
a buck or two.
We removed most of the previous wiring and installed all new home made harnesses.
Using shielded wire for all but the power and ground connections. We have
the battery mounted on the firewall with a piece of shield braid connecting to
the firewall. A heavy wire going to the starter ground to battery. We ran
two grounding wires to separate central grounding points under the spar box/pilot
seat. We kept all avionics on one ground buss and all other powered items
on the other ground buss. The power wires go to either an ExpBus2 switch panel
or a buss bar with breakers for each component. We kept two separate power
controls, in the event of a main battery loss, the backup battery would power
the essential items on the buss strip. This is done via a two way relay. All
comm antennas are mounted on the belly with small ground planes, bonded to
the avionics ground buss. The GPS antennas are mounted on the top of the fuselage.
RG-400 is used on all coax cables and the comm coax is run down one side
and the gps is routed down the other.
Here are the issues;
While the plane is shut off or running, if you turn on the AeroLED strobes, the
TACH misreads or flags. If you add the NAV lights, it gets worse.
IF you turn on the LED landing light, the COMM 1 breaks squelch.
IF you key the mic for either radio, the fuel indicators begin to drop. When you
release the mic, they regain.
Called AeroLED and Dean wanted to basically sell me new Nav/Strobe lights, but
didn't offer a solution to my existing lights. Garmin has some G3Xperts that
can offer assistance, but it's tough to get them on the phone. I'm at my wits
end!!!! Everything I know about avionics, I've learned in the last 3 months,
and I don't like it.
I'm looking for any good advice that someone can offer. Please understand my ignorance
and speak to me like a third grader.
Thanks, Curt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438644#438644
Message 3
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| Subject: | Handheld transceiver alternate antenna |
I installed a second external antenna that matches the one I use for my
main radio. The antenna cable terminates at a BNC connection on my
panel. I can quickly connect my handheld to the BNC with a patch cord.
With the exception of the cost of a second antenna, the installation was
quick and simple. Works well.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
--------------------------------------
> Time: 08:23:42 PM PST US
> From: John <jrevens@comcast.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna
>
> Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft
comm
> antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the
panel-mounted
> radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I could run the
> cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline to break the
> connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit. That's what
I
> did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a panel-mounted male
BNC
> connector that could possibly be used to connect the handheld without
> physically disconnecting the failed radio, providing that radio is
> switched off. If this is possible, I'm wondering if some kind of
antenna
> switch or splitter would be necessary. I'm talking about the antenna
> only serving one radio at a time. This is very possibly a dumb
question.
>
> Thanks in advance for any replies!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna |
At 22:19 2015-02-23, you wrote:
>Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft
>comm antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the
>panel-mounted radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I
>could run the cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors
>inline to break the connection to the panel and connect to the
>handheld unit. That's what I did on my first homebuilt. However, I
>envision a panel-mounted male BNC connector that could possibly be
>used to connect the handheld without physically disconnecting the
>failed radio, providing that radio is switched off. If this is
>possible, I'm wondering if some kind of antenna switch or splitter
>would be necessary. I'm talking about the antenna only serving one
>radio at a time. This is very possibly a dumb question.
Since the h-h is backup for a failed radio,
only ONE antenna can be made to service both
appliances. One of my favorite 'back up' antenna
arrangements suggests arranging a coiled-up
excess of comm antenna feed-line to be situated
in a handy but out of sight location. A BNC cable
male/female joint on the panel-radio end of the
coil. Of course, this excess cable should not
be retained in a manner requiring more than
your fingers to access, break the joint and
uncoil it.
Should it become necessary to put the h-h
into service, you can string out the coax
and hook it to the radio.
Emacs!
Unfortunately, this particular arrangement is a
bit un-graceful.
Consider this . . .
Emacs!
A pair of right angle adapters can be used to
bring the antenna coax down the back of the
radio such that the whole becomes more like
a microphone. If your BNC cable male on the
feed-line is already a right-angle connector,
then you only need one adapter to get the 180
degree, tight bend.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Having several issues with my installation |
>Here are the issues;
>While the plane is shut off or running, if you turn on the AeroLED
>strobes, the TACH misreads or flags. If you add the NAV lights, it gets worse.
>
>IF you turn on the LED landing light, the COMM 1 breaks squelch.
>
>IF you key the mic for either radio, the fuel indicators begin to
>drop. When you release the mic, they regain.
>
>Called AeroLED and Dean wanted to basically sell me new Nav/Strobe
>lights, but didn't offer a solution to my existing lights.
Which suggests to me that they KNOW some things about
the lights you have . . . that may have been 'fixed'
in their current products.
>Garmin has some G3Xperts that can offer assistance, but it's tough
>to get them on the phone.
They would be in no better position to offer assistance
than any of us here on the List. It's like an art
master trying to do remote diagnosis on another
individual's problems with color, textures, paints,
etc. etc. without having been involved in the effort
from square-one and without actually being able to
see/smell/touch or have detailed knowledge of
the original design goals . . . or lack thereof.
>I'm at my wits end!!!! Everything I know about avionics, I've
>learned in the last 3 months, and I don't like it.
Understand. You've been sand-bagged with a realization
of how much you don't know about what is not yet known.
>I'm looking for any good advice that someone can offer. Please
>understand my ignorance and speak to me like a third grader.
Without having a detailed schematic and knowledge of
the mechanical layouts, it's more than a little
difficult. Being a composite airplane makes it
more problematic yet.
The strongest odds are in favor of a poorly
architectured ground system. You spoke to a
constellation of wires in the ground system
that give an initial impression of 'ground
loop city'.
Figure Z-15 from the 'Connection illustrates
some of the common pitfalls
http://tinyurl.com/6w87rvb
and suggestions for crafting a 'clean' ground
system.
Emacs!
The symptoms you described MAY NOT have root
cause in your ground system architecture . . . but
unless the ground system was initially crafted
with the simple pitfalls in mind, then one cannot rule
out grounding as a contributor to your woes . . .
but let us look elsewhere first.
Q: Are your fuel level sensors supplied with
ANY claim of having been tested for compatibility
with aircraft environments? Can you give us a link
to download the manufacturer's data, marketing
hype and installation manuals?
Your problems that manifest with your LED lighting
products are most likely associated with radiation
from their switch-mode power supplies. Some years
ago, we offered a filter kit that tamed a popular
switch mode supply in a DIY lighting kit. Sales
volumes went way down on that product and it was
discontinued.
I have a filter that was crafted for a customer
some years ago . . . to mitigate conducted noises
that were not accounted for in the initial design
goals.
Emacs!
I can send you one of these to try on your landing light.
If it proves adequate/useful, I'll throw some more together
and we can sprinkle them around on the other LED antagonists.
This is a cut-n-try approach . . . given the limitations of
diagnostics-by-wire . . . it's about the best we can do . . .
If you'd like to try this, shoot me a mailing address . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Having several issues with my installation |
> The strongest odds are in favor of a poorly
> architectured ground system.
CORRECTION: I miss-typed . . . the ground system
is not high on the list of probabilities pending
elimination of other possibilities . . .
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna |
To clarify a little, I was thinking of installing a BNC tee in the line between
the panel mounted radio and the antenna. Then I would bring a short "branch"
from that tee to a panel-mounted male BNC, and possibly close that off with the
proper terminating cap until it is used. I would have a short section of antenna
cable with connectors already attached to and stored with the handheld. Would
this kind of arrangement have shortcomings in the way of signal strength
or other losses?
John Evens
Thorp T-18 N71JE (built and flying)
Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building)
--------
John Evens
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438670#438670
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Having several issues with my installation |
Curt,
What part of the country are you in?
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:05 AM, curts63 <curts63@verizon.net> wrote:
First, I'm not an avionics person nor do I play one on TV. I bought a used Arion
Lightning, composite airplane. I didn't like the original EFIS, so I elected
to install a new Dual Screen Garmin G3X Touch system. Complete with dual ADHRS,
Magnotometer, Autopilot, AP Controller, GDL-39R, remote transponder, remote
radio, GNS-430W, GAD29, audio panel, and a coffee pot. This is a 12v system
using a Jabiru 3300 engine. The fuel probes are capacitance made by Centroid
Products, sold through MGL.
I had an avionics guy do most of the wiring and guide me through the process.
We did not have the luxury of a true avionics shop, like most, trying to save
a buck or two.
We removed most of the previous wiring and installed all new home made harnesses.
Using shielded wire for all but the power and ground connections. We have
the battery mounted on the firewall with a piece of shield braid connecting to
the firewall. A heavy wire going to the starter ground to battery. We ran
two grounding wires to separate central grounding points under the spar box/pilot
seat. We kept all avionics on one ground buss and all other powered items
on the other ground buss. The power wires go to either an ExpBus2 switch panel
or a buss bar with breakers for each component. We kept two separate power
controls, in the event of a main battery loss, the backup battery would power
the essential items on the buss strip. This is done via a two way relay. All
comm antennas are mounted on the belly with small ground planes, bonded to
the avionics ground buss. The GPS antennas are mounted on the top of the fuselage.
RG-400 is used on all
coax cables and the comm!
coax is run down one side and the gps is routed down the other.
Here are the issues;
While the plane is shut off or running, if you turn on the AeroLED strobes, the
TACH misreads or flags. If you add the NAV lights, it gets worse.
IF you turn on the LED landing light, the COMM 1 breaks squelch.
IF you key the mic for either radio, the fuel indicators begin to drop. When you
release the mic, they regain.
Called AeroLED and Dean wanted to basically sell me new Nav/Strobe lights, but
didn't offer a solution to my existing lights. Garmin has some G3Xperts that
can offer assistance, but it's tough to get them on the phone. I'm at my wits
end!!!! Everything I know about avionics, I've learned in the last 3 months,
and I don't like it.
I'm looking for any good advice that someone can offer. Please understand my ignorance
and speak to me like a third grader.
Thanks, Curt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438644#438644
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna |
Don't do it. One radio's transmitter would directly drive the other's receiver;
not a good plan for a number of reasons (which might include smoke).
On February 24, 2015 2:07:15 PM CST, jrevens <jrevens@comcast.net> wrote:
><jrevens@comcast.net>
>
>To clarify a little, I was thinking of installing a BNC tee in the line
>between the panel mounted radio and the antenna. Then I would bring a
>short "branch" from that tee to a panel-mounted male BNC, and possibly
>close that off with the proper terminating cap until it is used. I
>would have a short section of antenna cable with connectors already
>attached to and stored with the handheld. Would this kind of
>arrangement have shortcomings in the way of signal strength or other
>losses?
>
>John Evens
>Thorp T-18 N71JE (built and flying)
>Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building)
>
>--------
>John Evens
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438670#438670
>
>
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Handheld transceiver alternate antenna |
You could install a Coaxial Switch. The output to the Antenna and one
port to the Ships Radio and one port to a Socket mounted somewhere
convenient that you can plug a Handheld into.
Just remember not transmit into an open port. I.e. don=99t leave
the ships Radio on if you plan to use the Handheld.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 # 41016
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2015 3:19 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna
Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft comm
antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the panel-mounted
radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I could run the
cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline to break the
connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit. That's what I
did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a panel-mounted male BNC
connector that could possibly be used to connect the handheld without
physically disconnecting the failed radio, providing that radio is
switched off. If this is possible, I'm wondering if some kind of antenna
switch or splitter would be necessary. I'm talking about the antenna
only serving one radio at a time. This is very possibly a dumb question.
Thanks in advance for any replies!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna |
That is the only way I would contemplate sharing a single antenna with
two radios.
Apart from avoiding the likelihood of transmitting into an open port
or delivering your transmitter's full output power into the other radios
receiver, potentially with dire consequences, we should not forget that
these radios have a design antenna impedance of 50 ohms, as does the
antenna, giving the sought after perfect match.
Hook up two radios simultaneously and the apparent radio end impedance
becomes 50/2, or 25 ohms. Immediate mismatch.
Bill
19-4446
Jodel D18, also in Oz.
On 25/02/2015 5:41 PM, John MacCallum wrote:
>
> You could install a Coaxial Switch. The output to the Antenna and one
> port to the Ships Radio and one port to a Socket mounted somewhere
> convenient that you can plug a Handheld into.
>
> Just remember not transmit into an open port. I.e. dont leave the
> ships Radio on if you plan to use the Handheld.
>
> Cheers
>
> John MacCallum
>
> VH-DUU
>
> RV 10 # 41016
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 February 2015 3:19 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna
>
> Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft
> comm antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the
> panel-mounted radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I
> could run the cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline
> to break the connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit.
> That's what I did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a
> panel-mounted male BNC connector that could possibly be used to
> connect the handheld without physically disconnecting the failed
> radio, providing that radio is switched off. If this is possible, I'm
> wondering if some kind of antenna switch or splitter would be
> necessary. I'm talking about the antenna only serving one radio at a
> time. This is very possibly a dumb question.
>
> Thanks in advance for any replies!
>
> * http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous -Matthttp://www.matronics.com/c= <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> * * <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> *
>
>
> *
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