---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/24/15: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:09 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/23/15 (David Josephson) 2. 04:51 AM - Having several issues with my installation (curts63) 3. 07:47 AM - Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Charles Brame) 4. 08:18 AM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 10:38 AM - Re: Having several issues with my installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 10:54 AM - Re: Having several issues with my installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 12:08 PM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (jrevens) 8. 02:29 PM - Re: Having several issues with my installation (Jeff Luckey) 9. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Charlie England) 10. 10:43 PM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (John MacCallum) 11. 11:05 PM - Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna (Bill Maxwell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:54 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/23/15 From: David Josephson > > Time: 08:23:42 PM PST US > From: John > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna > > Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft comm > antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the panel-mounted > radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I could run the > cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline to break the > connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit. That's what I > did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a panel-mounted male BNC > connector that could possibly be used to connect the handheld without > physically disconnecting the failed radio, providing that radio is > switched off. If this is possible, I'm wondering if some kind of antenna > switch or splitter would be necessary. Your first answer was better. A splitter is not practical, given the need to maintain low loss for each radio. You would need a switch, and there are good quality coaxial toggle switches. They are expensive and fairly large. There are a few surplus ones on ebay now with N connectors, search 'coaxial toggle switch.' There are cheap ones made for ham/CB/TV but I would not try to use one of those. I think I would use a separate antenna instead. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:45 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Having several issues with my installation From: "curts63" First, I'm not an avionics person nor do I play one on TV. I bought a used Arion Lightning, composite airplane. I didn't like the original EFIS, so I elected to install a new Dual Screen Garmin G3X Touch system. Complete with dual ADHRS, Magnotometer, Autopilot, AP Controller, GDL-39R, remote transponder, remote radio, GNS-430W, GAD29, audio panel, and a coffee pot. This is a 12v system using a Jabiru 3300 engine. The fuel probes are capacitance made by Centroid Products, sold through MGL. I had an avionics guy do most of the wiring and guide me through the process. We did not have the luxury of a true avionics shop, like most, trying to save a buck or two. We removed most of the previous wiring and installed all new home made harnesses. Using shielded wire for all but the power and ground connections. We have the battery mounted on the firewall with a piece of shield braid connecting to the firewall. A heavy wire going to the starter ground to battery. We ran two grounding wires to separate central grounding points under the spar box/pilot seat. We kept all avionics on one ground buss and all other powered items on the other ground buss. The power wires go to either an ExpBus2 switch panel or a buss bar with breakers for each component. We kept two separate power controls, in the event of a main battery loss, the backup battery would power the essential items on the buss strip. This is done via a two way relay. All comm antennas are mounted on the belly with small ground planes, bonded to the avionics ground buss. The GPS antennas are mounted on the top of the fuselage. RG-400 is used on all coax cables and the comm coax is run down one side and the gps is routed down the other. Here are the issues; While the plane is shut off or running, if you turn on the AeroLED strobes, the TACH misreads or flags. If you add the NAV lights, it gets worse. IF you turn on the LED landing light, the COMM 1 breaks squelch. IF you key the mic for either radio, the fuel indicators begin to drop. When you release the mic, they regain. Called AeroLED and Dean wanted to basically sell me new Nav/Strobe lights, but didn't offer a solution to my existing lights. Garmin has some G3Xperts that can offer assistance, but it's tough to get them on the phone. I'm at my wits end!!!! Everything I know about avionics, I've learned in the last 3 months, and I don't like it. I'm looking for any good advice that someone can offer. Please understand my ignorance and speak to me like a third grader. Thanks, Curt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438644#438644 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:40 AM PST US From: Charles Brame Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna I installed a second external antenna that matches the one I use for my main radio. The antenna cable terminates at a BNC connection on my panel. I can quickly connect my handheld to the BNC with a patch cord. With the exception of the cost of a second antenna, the installation was quick and simple. Works well. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio -------------------------------------- > Time: 08:23:42 PM PST US > From: John > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna > > Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft comm > antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the panel-mounted > radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I could run the > cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline to break the > connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit. That's what I > did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a panel-mounted male BNC > connector that could possibly be used to connect the handheld without > physically disconnecting the failed radio, providing that radio is > switched off. If this is possible, I'm wondering if some kind of antenna > switch or splitter would be necessary. I'm talking about the antenna > only serving one radio at a time. This is very possibly a dumb question. > > Thanks in advance for any replies! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:19 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna At 22:19 2015-02-23, you wrote: >Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft >comm antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the >panel-mounted radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I >could run the cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors >inline to break the connection to the panel and connect to the >handheld unit. That's what I did on my first homebuilt. However, I >envision a panel-mounted male BNC connector that could possibly be >used to connect the handheld without physically disconnecting the >failed radio, providing that radio is switched off. If this is >possible, I'm wondering if some kind of antenna switch or splitter >would be necessary. I'm talking about the antenna only serving one >radio at a time. This is very possibly a dumb question. Since the h-h is backup for a failed radio, only ONE antenna can be made to service both appliances. One of my favorite 'back up' antenna arrangements suggests arranging a coiled-up excess of comm antenna feed-line to be situated in a handy but out of sight location. A BNC cable male/female joint on the panel-radio end of the coil. Of course, this excess cable should not be retained in a manner requiring more than your fingers to access, break the joint and uncoil it. Should it become necessary to put the h-h into service, you can string out the coax and hook it to the radio. Emacs! Unfortunately, this particular arrangement is a bit un-graceful. Consider this . . . Emacs! A pair of right angle adapters can be used to bring the antenna coax down the back of the radio such that the whole becomes more like a microphone. If your BNC cable male on the feed-line is already a right-angle connector, then you only need one adapter to get the 180 degree, tight bend. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Having several issues with my installation >Here are the issues; >While the plane is shut off or running, if you turn on the AeroLED >strobes, the TACH misreads or flags. If you add the NAV lights, it gets worse. > >IF you turn on the LED landing light, the COMM 1 breaks squelch. > >IF you key the mic for either radio, the fuel indicators begin to >drop. When you release the mic, they regain. > >Called AeroLED and Dean wanted to basically sell me new Nav/Strobe >lights, but didn't offer a solution to my existing lights. Which suggests to me that they KNOW some things about the lights you have . . . that may have been 'fixed' in their current products. >Garmin has some G3Xperts that can offer assistance, but it's tough >to get them on the phone. They would be in no better position to offer assistance than any of us here on the List. It's like an art master trying to do remote diagnosis on another individual's problems with color, textures, paints, etc. etc. without having been involved in the effort from square-one and without actually being able to see/smell/touch or have detailed knowledge of the original design goals . . . or lack thereof. >I'm at my wits end!!!! Everything I know about avionics, I've >learned in the last 3 months, and I don't like it. Understand. You've been sand-bagged with a realization of how much you don't know about what is not yet known. >I'm looking for any good advice that someone can offer. Please >understand my ignorance and speak to me like a third grader. Without having a detailed schematic and knowledge of the mechanical layouts, it's more than a little difficult. Being a composite airplane makes it more problematic yet. The strongest odds are in favor of a poorly architectured ground system. You spoke to a constellation of wires in the ground system that give an initial impression of 'ground loop city'. Figure Z-15 from the 'Connection illustrates some of the common pitfalls http://tinyurl.com/6w87rvb and suggestions for crafting a 'clean' ground system. Emacs! The symptoms you described MAY NOT have root cause in your ground system architecture . . . but unless the ground system was initially crafted with the simple pitfalls in mind, then one cannot rule out grounding as a contributor to your woes . . . but let us look elsewhere first. Q: Are your fuel level sensors supplied with ANY claim of having been tested for compatibility with aircraft environments? Can you give us a link to download the manufacturer's data, marketing hype and installation manuals? Your problems that manifest with your LED lighting products are most likely associated with radiation from their switch-mode power supplies. Some years ago, we offered a filter kit that tamed a popular switch mode supply in a DIY lighting kit. Sales volumes went way down on that product and it was discontinued. I have a filter that was crafted for a customer some years ago . . . to mitigate conducted noises that were not accounted for in the initial design goals. Emacs! I can send you one of these to try on your landing light. If it proves adequate/useful, I'll throw some more together and we can sprinkle them around on the other LED antagonists. This is a cut-n-try approach . . . given the limitations of diagnostics-by-wire . . . it's about the best we can do . . . If you'd like to try this, shoot me a mailing address . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Having several issues with my installation > The strongest odds are in favor of a poorly > architectured ground system. CORRECTION: I miss-typed . . . the ground system is not high on the list of probabilities pending elimination of other possibilities . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:24 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna From: "jrevens" To clarify a little, I was thinking of installing a BNC tee in the line between the panel mounted radio and the antenna. Then I would bring a short "branch" from that tee to a panel-mounted male BNC, and possibly close that off with the proper terminating cap until it is used. I would have a short section of antenna cable with connectors already attached to and stored with the handheld. Would this kind of arrangement have shortcomings in the way of signal strength or other losses? John Evens Thorp T-18 N71JE (built and flying) Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building) -------- John Evens Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438670#438670 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:34 PM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Having several issues with my installation Curt, What part of the country are you in? On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:05 AM, curts63 wrote: First, I'm not an avionics person nor do I play one on TV. I bought a used Arion Lightning, composite airplane. I didn't like the original EFIS, so I elected to install a new Dual Screen Garmin G3X Touch system. Complete with dual ADHRS, Magnotometer, Autopilot, AP Controller, GDL-39R, remote transponder, remote radio, GNS-430W, GAD29, audio panel, and a coffee pot. This is a 12v system using a Jabiru 3300 engine. The fuel probes are capacitance made by Centroid Products, sold through MGL. I had an avionics guy do most of the wiring and guide me through the process. We did not have the luxury of a true avionics shop, like most, trying to save a buck or two. We removed most of the previous wiring and installed all new home made harnesses. Using shielded wire for all but the power and ground connections. We have the battery mounted on the firewall with a piece of shield braid connecting to the firewall. A heavy wire going to the starter ground to battery. We ran two grounding wires to separate central grounding points under the spar box/pilot seat. We kept all avionics on one ground buss and all other powered items on the other ground buss. The power wires go to either an ExpBus2 switch panel or a buss bar with breakers for each component. We kept two separate power controls, in the event of a main battery loss, the backup battery would power the essential items on the buss strip. This is done via a two way relay. All comm antennas are mounted on the belly with small ground planes, bonded to the avionics ground buss. The GPS antennas are mounted on the top of the fuselage. RG-400 is used on all coax cables and the comm! coax is run down one side and the gps is routed down the other. Here are the issues; While the plane is shut off or running, if you turn on the AeroLED strobes, the TACH misreads or flags. If you add the NAV lights, it gets worse. IF you turn on the LED landing light, the COMM 1 breaks squelch. IF you key the mic for either radio, the fuel indicators begin to drop. When you release the mic, they regain. Called AeroLED and Dean wanted to basically sell me new Nav/Strobe lights, but didn't offer a solution to my existing lights. Garmin has some G3Xperts that can offer assistance, but it's tough to get them on the phone. I'm at my wits end!!!! Everything I know about avionics, I've learned in the last 3 months, and I don't like it. I'm looking for any good advice that someone can offer. Please understand my ignorance and speak to me like a third grader. Thanks, Curt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438644#438644 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna From: Charlie England Don't do it. One radio's transmitter would directly drive the other's receiver; not a good plan for a number of reasons (which might include smoke). On February 24, 2015 2:07:15 PM CST, jrevens wrote: > > >To clarify a little, I was thinking of installing a BNC tee in the line >between the panel mounted radio and the antenna. Then I would bring a >short "branch" from that tee to a panel-mounted male BNC, and possibly >close that off with the proper terminating cap until it is used. I >would have a short section of antenna cable with connectors already >attached to and stored with the handheld. Would this kind of >arrangement have shortcomings in the way of signal strength or other >losses? > >John Evens >Thorp T-18 N71JE (built and flying) >Kitfox SS7 N27JE (building) > >-------- >John Evens > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438670#438670 > > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:42 PM PST US From: John MacCallum Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna You could install a Coaxial Switch. The output to the Antenna and one port to the Ships Radio and one port to a Socket mounted somewhere convenient that you can plug a Handheld into. Just remember not transmit into an open port. I.e. don=99t leave the ships Radio on if you plan to use the Handheld. Cheers John MacCallum VH-DUU RV 10 # 41016 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2015 3:19 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft comm antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the panel-mounted radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I could run the cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline to break the connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit. That's what I did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a panel-mounted male BNC connector that could possibly be used to connect the handheld without physically disconnecting the failed radio, providing that radio is switched off. If this is possible, I'm wondering if some kind of antenna switch or splitter would be necessary. I'm talking about the antenna only serving one radio at a time. This is very possibly a dumb question. Thanks in advance for any replies! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:17 PM PST US From: Bill Maxwell Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna That is the only way I would contemplate sharing a single antenna with two radios. Apart from avoiding the likelihood of transmitting into an open port or delivering your transmitter's full output power into the other radios receiver, potentially with dire consequences, we should not forget that these radios have a design antenna impedance of 50 ohms, as does the antenna, giving the sought after perfect match. Hook up two radios simultaneously and the apparent radio end impedance becomes 50/2, or 25 ohms. Immediate mismatch. Bill 19-4446 Jodel D18, also in Oz. On 25/02/2015 5:41 PM, John MacCallum wrote: > > You could install a Coaxial Switch. The output to the Antenna and one > port to the Ships Radio and one port to a Socket mounted somewhere > convenient that you can plug a Handheld into. > > Just remember not transmit into an open port. I.e. dont leave the > ships Radio on if you plan to use the Handheld. > > Cheers > > John MacCallum > > VH-DUU > > RV 10 # 41016 > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John > *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 February 2015 3:19 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Handheld transceiver alternate antenna > > Is there an efficient, elegant way to connect an external aircraft > comm antenna to a handheld radio in the event of failure of the > panel-mounted radio that the antenna is connected to? I know that I > could run the cable within reach of the pilot, with connectors inline > to break the connection to the panel and connect to the handheld unit. > That's what I did on my first homebuilt. However, I envision a > panel-mounted male BNC connector that could possibly be used to > connect the handheld without physically disconnecting the failed > radio, providing that radio is switched off. If this is possible, I'm > wondering if some kind of antenna switch or splitter would be > necessary. I'm talking about the antenna only serving one radio at a > time. This is very possibly a dumb question. > > Thanks in advance for any replies! > > * http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous -Matthttp://www.matronics.com/c= > * * > > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.