Today's Message Index:
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1. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Charging failure - suggestions welcome (David Lloyd)
2. 10:06 AM - Busy contacts are happy contacts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 11:14 AM - AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v) (Roger McCoig)
4. 11:24 AM - AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v) (Roger McCoig)
5. 12:19 PM - Z12 vs Z13-8 (Larry Rosen)
6. 04:33 PM - Re: AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 05:34 PM - Re: AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v) (Roger McCoig)
8. 06:42 PM - Re: Z12 vs Z13-8 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Charging failure - suggestions welcome |
Hi Joe,
Mine is dual range via push button. . .amps & volts.
D
______________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 8:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Charging failure - suggestions welcome
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternator_Testing.pdf
> Note that meter is set on AMPS, not volts.
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439752#439752
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Busy contacts are happy contacts |
>Turned out the main bus CB (original factory unit in my '65 185) had
>opened up without popping the indicator button. I was dumb-founded
>by that as it was about the last thing I checked.
MAIN BUS BREAKER? What's that?
I've experienced two instances of old switches 'going open'
with age. Contact corrosion is always 'thicker' than the
surface from which the corrosion is developed. The two
instances I personally encountered were on low current,
press-to-test switches that were not routinely operated . . .
and when they were operated, their 'high current' (silver
cad) contacts did not benefit from the naturally occurring
arc that has a cleansing effect on thin films of naturally
occurring corrosion.
Do you still have the old breaker? I'd love to have it
for an autopsy.
The first time I saw the effect, a tech had already pulled the
switch and replaced it. I cabbaged onto the carcass and
discovered that it was a perfectly good but seldom exercised
switch loaded with too little current. A constant current power
supply set for 10A was 'shorted' with the suspect switch
and wig-waged a few dozen times. Contact resistance fell to
catalog limits and the switch was probably good-to-go for
another 10-15 years.
The second time I saw it, I was able to advise the tech
and suggest an experiment before we pulled the switch
from the panel (and gigged the customer $300). I hooked
a CC power supply across the open contacts and wiggled
the dead-short switch a few dozen times. Again, contact
resistance fell to milliohms and the switch was 'refurbished
in situ'.
Years ago I recall advising techs who attended my
seminars that one of the best things they could do
for an aging breaker panel was to exercise the all breakers,
under load if practical, every time the airplane showed
up for service. An exercised contact is a happy contact.
Unfortunately, breakers in that era of Cessnas were
push-to-reset only. To 'clean' those switches, the techs
were advised to clip-lead a 30A load resistor to the downstream
side of the breaker . . . force it open a couple of times.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and OV Protection |
Kit (14v)
I am identifying parts from the AeroElectric Connections Figure Z-16
drawing for Re-Wiring project.
Is the AEC900-101 listed on that drawing available?
Also I have the original Voltage Regulator from the Jabiru Firewall
Forward Kit.
Is PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v), Item 505-1, listed on B & C
Speciality Productions suitable for this regulator?
Thanks
Message 4
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Subject: | AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and OV Protection |
Kit (14v)
I am identifying parts from the AeroElectric Connections Figure Z-16
drawing for Re-Wiring project.
Is the AEC900-101 listed on that drawing available?
Also I have the original Voltage Regulator from the Jabiru Firewall
Forward Kit.
Is PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v), Item 505-1, listed on B & C
Speciality Productions suitable for this regulator?
Thanks
Message 5
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I would like some confirmation that my rational for choosing between Z12
(60 & 20 amp alternators)and Z13-8 (60 and 20 amp alternators) is rational.
I am building a Vans RV-10. Based on my current projections, normal
continuous load will range between 20 and 35 amps. Low being day VFR
and high when landing at night. My maximum instantaneous load is 63
amps. This would be if every electrical motor was running, every radio
was transmitting, every light was on, etc. A very unlikely possibility
but a value that nice to have. My endurance bus load is 12 amps with a
maximum instantaneous load of 21 amps. All on a 14 volt system.
I will be using an Odyssey PC925 battery and per their applications
manual @25C
(<http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-AM-001_0406.pdf> page
7) @25C the time to 10.02 volts, that I derated to 80% is:
45 min 22.5 amps
1 hr 17.5 amps
2 hr 9.5 amps
3 hr 6.6 amps
4 hr 5.1 amps
If I were to use a single alternator single battery electrical design
with an endurance buss, in an alternator out scenario, running off the
e-bus I would have over an hour of flight time to land before I run out
of electrical power. Not that bad a scenario.
Z13-8 adds the SD8 alternator and at my projected cruse or 2,300 to
2,400 rpm (the alternator would spin at 3,000 rpm) it produces 6.8
amps. My battery would need to make up the additional 5.2 amps
(12-6.8). This gives almost 4 hours of endurance. Easily 3 hours with
electrical reserve for the additional electrical load when landing.
Z12 adds a 20 amp alternator (B&C) or 30 amps (plane power). I could
not find specific output data for either alternator. B&C says 20 amps
at 3,500 rpm vs my 3,000 rpm cruse. All plane power says is 30 amps at
cruse for their 14 volt model not their 13.6 volt model. Since my
e-buss load is only 12 amps I could run on the e-bus until my fuel runs
out.
I am finding very little downside to adding the 20/30 amp backup
alternator. It does add about 2 pounds. The cost difference is very
little $200 at the most.
I am currently leaning towards Z12, but I wanted some feedback to
confirm that my evaluation is sound.
Larry Rosen
RV-10 back to building
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and |
OV Protection Kit (14v)
At 13:12 2015-03-23, you wrote:
>I am identifying parts from the AeroElectric
>Connections Figure Z-16 drawing for Re-Wiring project.
>
>Is the AEC900-101 listed on that drawing available?
Yes . . . sort of . . .
>Also I have the original Voltage Regulator from
>the Jabiru Firewall Forward Kit.
>
>Is PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v),
>Item 505-1, listed on B & C Speciality Productions suitable for this regulator?
Yes, the crowbar ov module and lv warning are being
combined into a single device. But yes, the components
needed to complete that suite of tasks will be available
from B&C.
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: AEC9005-101 availability and PM/OV Filter and |
OV Protection Kit (14v)
Thanks Bob.
I appreciate the info. I will use the original wiring diagram from Jabiru
for the regulator and ask B&C to let me know when the new parts are
available.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 13:12 2015-03-23, you wrote:
>
>> I am identifying parts from the AeroElectric Connections Figure Z-16
>> drawing for Re-Wiring project.
>>
>> Is the AEC900-101 listed on that drawing available?
>>
>
> Yes . . . sort of . . .
>
>
> Also I have the original Voltage Regulator from the=C3=82 Jabiru Firewa
ll
>> Forward Kit.
>>
>> Is PM/OV Filter and OV Protection Kit (14v), Item 505-1, listed on B & C
>> Speciality Productions suitable for this regulator?
>>
>
> Yes, the crowbar ov module and lv warning are being
> combined into a single device. But yes, the components
> needed to complete that suite of tasks will be available
> from B&C.
>
>
===========
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===========
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Z12 vs Z13-8 |
At 14:17 2015-03-23, you wrote:
I would like some confirmation that my rational for choosing between
Z12 (60 & 20 amp alternators)and Z13-8 (60 and 20 amp alternators) is rational.
I am building a Vans RV-10. Based on my current projections, normal
continuous load will range between 20 and 35 amps. Low being day VFR
and high when landing at night. My maximum instantaneous load is 63
amps. This would be if every electrical motor was running, every
radio was transmitting, every light was on, etc. A very unlikely
possibility but a value that nice to have. My endurance bus load is
12 amps with a maximum instantaneous load of 21 amps. All on a 14 volt system.
Thats a pretty broad brush load analysis. Intermittent
loads MAY total a lot of amps but their ENERGY requirements
are generally low and not part of your endurance calculation.
I will be using an Odyssey PC925 battery and per their applications
manual @25C
(<http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-AM-001_0406.pdf>
page 7) @25C the time to 10.02 volts, that I derated to 80% is:
45 min 22.5 amps
1 hr 17.5 amps
2 hr 9.5 amps
3 hr 6.6 amps
4 hr 5.1 amps
If I were to use a single alternator single battery electrical design
with an endurance buss, in an alternator out scenario, running off
the e-bus I would have over an hour of flight time to land before I
run out of electrical power. Not that bad a scenario.
Is your e-bus load that high? Nor normal running
loads are not endurance loads. Figure out just what
electro-whizzies are necessary and useful for continued
flight at cruise. The ENDURANCE mode minimizes loads
consistent with capable navigation and aviation.
Z13-8 adds the SD8 alternator and at my projected cruse or 2,300 to
2,400 rpm (the alternator would spin at 3,000 rpm) it produces 6.8
amps. My battery would need to make up the additional 5.2 amps
(12-6.8). This gives almost 4 hours of endurance. Easily 3 hours
with electrical reserve for the additional electrical load when landing.
Ideally, your TOTAL endurance loads would be carried
by the 8A s/b alternator thus saving the battery's
stored energy for descent and approach to landing.
Z12 adds a 20 amp alternator (B&C) or 30 amps (plane power). I could
not find specific output data for either alternator. B&C says 20
amps at 3,500 rpm vs my 3,000 rpm cruse. All plane power says is 30
amps at cruse for their 14 volt model not their 13.6 volt
model. Since my e-buss load is only 12 amps I could run on the e-bus
until my fuel runs out.
The Endurance Mode . . . doesn't mean keeping
the coffee pot hot and the stereo running.
It means supporting the minimalist load of
electro-whizzies that will carry you to
airport in sight.
At that time, will ALL of the battery's contents
held in reserve, you can come down final with
klieg lights and coupled autopilot approach
while carrying on conversation with ATC . . . using
BATTERY + S?B alternator to support the load for
the few minutes needed to comfortably terminate
the flight.
Unless you have an electrically dependent engine
with a voracious appetite for Joules, you should
be able to cruise handily on 8A.
I am finding very little downside to adding the 20/30 amp backup
alternator. It does add about 2 pounds. The cost difference is very
little $200 at the most.
I am currently leaning towards Z12, but I wanted some feedback to
confirm that my evaluation is sound.
The downside is mostly dollars. Further, know
that in the not too distant future, the SD-8
is likely to be 'upgraded' . . . don't know
exactly how much but the increase will be
significant.
Get this form from my website
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/Blank_Form.pdf
One page for each bus. One equipment item
per line. Fill in steady state operating
for each device categorized by flight
condition. The goal is to get the MAIN ALT
DEAD condition down to 8A or less load.
Bob . . .
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