Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:12 AM - coax routing (bob noffs)
2. 07:35 AM - Re: V-Charger (Eric M. Jones)
3. 08:09 AM - Re: coax routing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: V-Charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:28 AM - Re: coax routing (bob noffs)
6. 12:09 PM - Re: V-Charger (user9253)
7. 12:54 PM - Alternator field circuit breaker (Pete)
8. 01:09 PM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (B Tomm)
9. 01:23 PM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Pete)
10. 02:31 PM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Kent or Jackie Ashton)
11. 03:56 PM - Re: Shield grounds (user9253)
12. 04:15 PM - Re: Re: Shield grounds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 04:53 PM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (user9253)
14. 08:37 PM - Re: USB Charger (speedy11@aol.com)
15. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: V-Charger (Eric Page)
Message 1
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hi all,
routing my transponder and com coax. am i likely to pick up noise running
them next to electric fuel pumps? thanks for any help.
bob noffs
Message 2
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http://www.alliedelec.com/carling-technologies-v-usb-24-g11-1bb1/70524982/
It's $55. Depending on who you are,it's either a deal or too pricey.
Eric
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440637#440637
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: coax routing |
At 09:06 2015-04-11, you wrote:
>hi all,
> routing my transponder and com coax. am i
>likely to pick up noise running them next to
>electric fuel pumps? thanks for any help.
> bob noffs
No
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Virtually ALL 12 to USB charger products are
crafted with some version of the switch-mode,
buck converter design . . .
Emacs!
In recent years, the capability and sophistication
of various step-down chargers has mushroomed. You see
bins of cigar cigar lighter adapters at the
cash register of convenience stores . . . priced
from 4 to 10 dollars each.
5-pack-Dual-USB-2-Port-Universal-Car-Charger-DC-Adapter-5V-2-1A
You can buy guts-only boards for this and similar
products for as little as 50 cents per working item
on ebay. Here's a 4-port, 5 Amp adjustable model you can
buy for less than $5 mailed to your door.
Emacs!
The the technology to make these capable critters for
so little money is gargantuan automated production
volumes and minimizing parts count. These convertera
all operated at 100 KHz up . . . some as high as one
Mhz. Problem is that the waveforms are anything but
sine-wave and exceedingly rich in harmonics. They
are miniature rogue transmitters. The minimalist
parts count philosophy encourages designers to
discount if not totally ignore any potential for
interference to other systems. FCC Part 15 rules
allow extra-ordinarily antagonistic emissions with
the admonition, "Users must discontinue use of
this device if it interferes with other products
or systems".
The EASY work around is to craft a 14 to 5 volt
step down regulator with linear components. Virtually
noise free but the have to toss off a lot of heat.
They are limited to 33% efficiency by design.
Further, another feature in the USB charging
cable protocols that can produce unexpected
behaviors. For example, I used to have a cell phone
that refused to accept power from an "unauthorized
charger" . . . Turns out that SOME appliances
expect to see SOME kinds of 'communication' from
the charger in the form of treatment of the normally
dormant data lines (The OTHER two wires in the
usb cable).
So even if you build yourself a noise-free linear,
you may find that the target appliance rejects
power from your handy-work based on a lack of
proper hand-shake from the charger. I've not had
time to dig into this deeply . . . perhaps someone
on the List can enlighten us further.
Given the limited, captive market that is aviation,
commercial off the shelf USB charger products
friendly to the cockpit will be pricey . . . even
if the additional parts required are only a few
cents cost.
We had a gentleman here on the List perhaps
a year ago who was striving to bring such a product
to market. I helped him with the pennies-per-device
additions necessary to do the filtering. The design
was apparently satisfactory but I've not heard from
him since as to his experience in the marketplace.
This isn't a complex problem. The simple-ideas and
their application supporting a successful design are
well known. The problem is that folks who buy these
devices at the convenience store cash register
out-number us by about 100:1!
Even the so-called 'noise free' chargers advertised
only seem to speak to ripple voltage on the 5v output
while ignoring or being oblivious to the potential
for radio frequency emissions. Here's one article
going to great lengths to talk about quality, safety
and noise on output line with the word 'radio' appearing
only once.
http://tinyurl.com/bz4nv3y
It's a wild and wooly USB world out there but not
really difficult to thrive in.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: coax routing |
hot dog! thanks so much for the quick fix!.
bob noffs
On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:06 2015-04-11, you wrote:
>
>> hi all,
>> =C3=82 routing my transponder and com coax. am i likely to pick up noise
>> running them next to electric fuel pumps? thanks for any help.
>> =C3=82 bob noffs
>>
>
> No
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 6
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> you may find that the target appliance rejects
> power from your handy-work based on a lack of
> proper hand-shake from the charger. I've not had
> time to dig into this deeply . . . perhaps someone
> on the List can enlighten us further.
http://tinyurl.com/Eric-Page-s-Post
Message 7
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440659#440659
Message 7
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Subject: | Alternator field circuit breaker |
I am replacing the Nippon/Denso alternator in my RV9 with one from Plane Power.
I did not build the RV.
The field CB is rated at 10 amps. Plane Power calls for a 5 amp one. Any issue
with using the existing 10 amp CB?
Pete Hudes
Message 8
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Subject: | Alternator field circuit breaker |
Does the alternator have an internal regulator? Does it include a crowbar
over voltage circuit? What size wire is running from the circuit breaker to
the alternator? I would think you will want to follow the install guide
closely.
Bevan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 12:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator field circuit breaker
I am replacing the Nippon/Denso alternator in my RV9 with one from Plane
Power. I did not build the RV.
The field CB is rated at 10 amps. Plane Power calls for a 5 amp one. Any
issue with using the existing 10 amp CB?
Pete Hudes
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Alternator field circuit breaker |
Yes to both.
Pete
On Apr 11, 2015, at 1:07 PM, B Tomm wrote:
>
> Does the alternator have an internal regulator? Does it include a crowbar
> over voltage circuit? What size wire is running from the circuit breaker to
> the alternator? I would think you will want to follow the install guide
> closely.
>
> Bevan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 12:54 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator field circuit breaker
>
>
> I am replacing the Nippon/Denso alternator in my RV9 with one from Plane
> Power. I did not build the RV.
> The field CB is rated at 10 amps. Plane Power calls for a 5 amp one. Any
> issue with using the existing 10 amp CB?
>
> Pete Hudes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Alternator field circuit breaker |
Plane power depends on popping the 5A CB to provide the overvoltage protection.
I would think using a larger CB will require more amps which might overheat
your field wiring before popping a 10A breaker. Just a guess.
http://plane-power.com/pdf/internally%20regulated%20experimental%20alternator%20information.pdf
-kent
> On Apr 11, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Pete <phudes@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes to both.
>
> Pete
>> On Apr 11, 2015, at 1:07 PM, B Tomm wrote:
>>
>>
>> Does the alternator have an internal regulator? Does it include a crowbar
>> over voltage circuit? What size wire is running from the circuit breaker to
>> the alternator? I would think you will want to follow the install guide
>> closely.
>>
>> Bevan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
>> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 12:54 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator field circuit breaker
>>
>>
>> I am replacing the Nippon/Denso alternator in my RV9 with one from Plane
>> Power. I did not build the RV.
>> The field CB is rated at 10 amps. Plane Power calls for a 5 amp one. Any
>> issue with using the existing 10 amp CB?
>>
>> Pete Hudes
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Shield grounds |
Interesting discussion on VansAirforce
Posted by Richard
> General rule is: If you want to keep EMI inside the cable, ground both ends.
If you want to keep the EMI outside the cable, ground one end.
Reply by Louis
> This isn't really the case. Terminating the shield at one point vs. multiple
depends on the electromagnetic coupling mode you're trying to defend against
(electric or magnetic)[1]. Electric coupling is a function of the capacitance
across the insulator between the signal wire and the shield[2], while magnetic
coupling is picked up by the loop formed by the cable and the ground plane[1].
> Low frequency signals interfere via magnetic coupling, and high frequency signals
via electric[1][2]. Therefore, when trying to defend against low frequency
interference (like when you're trying to protect a low frequency audio signal),
you use single point shield termination to avoid creating a loop/current
path for magnetic coupling to occur. For high frequencies, it's important to reduce
the voltage accumulating on the shield, so multiple grounding points are
used[2].
>
> [1] Frbel, Anke. "Cable Shielding to Minimize Electromagnetic Interference."
Cotbus University of Technology, Germany.
> http://eeeic.org/proc/papers/55.pdf
>
> [2] Renner, E. NAVSO P-3181 Aircraft and Avionics Cabling E3 Design Manufacturing
Guidelines. U.S. Navy, 1992 para 4.3
> http://bmpcoe.org/library/books/navso%20p-3181/53.html
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440677#440677
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Shield grounds |
At 17:55 2015-04-11, you wrote:
>
>Interesting discussion on VansAirforce
>
>Posted by Richard
>
> > General rule is: If you want to keep EMI inside the cable, ground
> both ends. If you want to keep the EMI outside the cable, ground one end.
>
"Keeping the EMI inside the cable" is the same task
as "keeping the EMI from getting INTO the cable.:"
Shielding can only break the electro-static coupling
mode of transferring EMI from antagonist to victim . . .
and shielding EITHER wire will do the task. Furhter,
the currents that flow in the shield are exceedingly
tiny . . . easy to calculate but very difficult to
measure. Hence, the pig-tail that brings a shield to
chassis ground COULD be a 40 AWG wire without degrading
the shield's performance.
Both of the documents cited use the term "EMI"
and "shielded cable" but the discussions and
energy propagation models immediately jump into
the realm of transmission lines and frequencies
of interest of a Mhz and up . . .
Almost NONE of what is discussed in those papers
applies to why wires may be shielded in light
aircraft navigation and audio systems. If we
were designing for resistance to nuclear EMP
then the electro-magnetic coupling modes would
have some significance . . . but understand
also that the appliance designs and system integration
problems go wAAAAYYyyyy beyond any fussing with
shielded wires.
I don't find much to argue with in those documents
except that they don't apply to what we do. As
cited many times in the past . . . follow the
installation manual's instructions first. If
there are doubts, determine IF the shield conductor
is ALSO part of a signal/power path. If so
attach both ends. If not, attach one end only.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Alternator field circuit breaker |
The crowbar over-voltage circuit could be damaged by excessive current allowed
by a 10 amp breaker. Use a 5 amp breaker.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440681#440681
Message 14
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Interesting to hear the squelch issues with cig lighter outlet USB chargers. I
have two that I have used from Daytona Beach to Reno and back without any squelch
issues. It is the Energizer model #PC-1CA. I use one for iPad and one
for Stratus.
Stan Sutterfield
Reno Race 84
Message 15
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