AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 04/13/15


Total Messages Posted: 26



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:24 AM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 06:29 AM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 07:52 AM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Ken Ryan)
     4. 08:11 AM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (user9253)
     5. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: USB Charger (H. Marvin Haught Jr)
     6. 08:24 AM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (user9253)
     7. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: V-Charger (H. Marvin Haught Jr)
     8. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Jeff Luckey)
     9. 08:56 AM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Ken Ryan)
    11. 09:49 AM - Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (user9253)
    12. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: V-Charger (Neal George)
    13. 10:37 AM - Re: V-Charger (user9253)
    14. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Ken Ryan)
    15. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 03:07 PM - Do I Have a Problem? (Roger Evenson)
    17. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: V-Charger (Jan de Jong)
    18. 04:09 PM - OAT PROBE COMPATABILITY (bob noffs)
    19. 05:42 PM - Re: Do I Have a Problem? (user9253)
    20. 05:51 PM - Re: OAT Probe Compatability (Paul Millner)
    21. 06:02 PM - Re: OAT PROBE COMPATABILITY (Kelly McMullen)
    22. 06:15 PM - Re: V-Charger (user9253)
    23. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: V-Charger (H. Marvin Haught Jr)
    24. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: Do I Have a Problem? (Paul A. Fisher)
    25. 06:46 PM - Re: OAT PROBE COMPATABILITY (bob noffs)
    26. 08:13 PM - Re: OAT Probe Compatability (user9253)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:24:08 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Alternator field circuit breaker
    At 15:21 2015-04-12, you wrote: > >My chief engineer always reminds me that the CB is protect the wire not the >item the wire leads to. If Plan Power says 5 amps, then I would change to 5 >amps and double check the wire to make sure it is adequate to handle 5 amps. If you're replacing a 10A breaker, then it's a pretty sure bet that the downstream wires are good for 5A too. But this is a special case where the breaker is indeed sized to integrate gracefully with a downstream item . . . the crowbar module. Further, not just ANY 5a breaker. During the operation of a crowbar ov protection device, fault currents may be as high as 200A . . . for a few tens of milliseconds. The ENERGY dumped in this even is low but the current can be substantial. While the legacy, pullable mil-style breaker Emacs! . . . will grunt the ov trip thousands of times without breathing hard, some 5A breakers won't make it to first base . . . Emacs! This little feller burned in two on the first trip . . . Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:29:14 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Alternator field circuit breaker
    Wrote this one yesterday but it failed to post. As a sub-note to the thread, I'll offer the following: At 15:21 2015-04-12, you wrote: > >My chief engineer always reminds me that the CB is protect the wire not the >item the wire leads to. If Plan Power says 5 amps, then I would change to 5 >amps and double check the wire to make sure it is adequate to handle 5 amps. If you're replacing a 10A breaker, then it's a pretty sure bet that the downstream wires are good for 5A too. But this is a special case where the breaker is indeed sized to integrate gracefully with a downstream item . . . the crowbar module. Further, not just ANY 5a breaker. During the operation of a crowbar ov protection device, fault currents may be as high as 200A . . . for a few tens of milliseconds. The ENERGY dumped in this even is low but the current can be substantial. While the legacy, pullable mil-style breaker Emacs! . . . will grunt the ov trip thousands of times without breathing hard, some 5A breakers won't make it to first base . . . Emacs! This little feller burned in two on the first ov trip . . . Future versions of the crowbar ov module will include a press to test function. It's not something that should be exercised every pre-flight (although it wouldn't hurt) but it will negate the need for yearly calibration testing and will serve to prove adequacy of the installed breaker. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:52:04 AM PST US
    From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    I already own a couple of 4 amp Klixon push-pulls (like the one in the picture). Will 4 amp work instead of five? Also, when do you anticipate the new OVP to be available for purchase? On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 15:21 2015-04-12, you wrote: > > > My chief engineer always reminds me that the CB is protect the wire not the > item the wire leads to. If Plan Power says 5 amps, then I would change to > 5 > amps and double check the wire to make sure it is adequate to handle 5 > amps. > > > If you're replacing a 10A breaker, then it's > a pretty sure bet that the downstream wires are > good for 5A too. But this is a special case > where the breaker is indeed sized to integrate > gracefully with a downstream item . . . the > crowbar module. > > Further, not just ANY 5a breaker. During the > operation of a crowbar ov protection device, > fault currents may be as high as 200A . . . > for a few tens of milliseconds. > > The ENERGY dumped in this even is low but > the current can be substantial. > > While the legacy, pullable mil-style breaker > [image: Emacs!] > > > . . . will grunt the ov trip thousands of times without > breathing hard, some 5A breakers won't make it to first > base . . . > > > [image: Emacs!] > > This little feller burned in two on the first trip . . . > > > Bob . . . >


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:11:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    > This little feller burned in two on the first trip . . . I bought a new circuit breaker, 693-T11-211-3, and tried it on the bench before installing it. The breaker would not trip in the O.V. circuit. So I connected the breaker directly to a 12 volt battery to test it. Instead of tripping, the breaker literally smoked. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440776#440776


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:19:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: USB Charger
    From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr" <handainc@madisoncounty.net>
    And none of the panel mounts are in stock. M. Haught Sent from my iPad > On Apr 12, 2015, at 2:32 PM, John Tipton <jmtipton@btopenworld.com> wrote: > > > Yes: nice quality items, but for us this side of the pond expensive, starting at 99.00 that's about $150.00 > > John > > Sent from my iPad > > ----x--O--x---- > >> On 12 Apr 2015, at 07:30 pm, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong@casema.nl> wrote: >> >> >> There's this: >> http://www.charge4.co.uk/ >> >> Not quite for free though. >> Jan de Jong > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:24:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    > Will 4 amp work instead of five? Probably, but it depends on the maximum current requirements of the alternator field. Do you know what it is? The field will need more current when recharging an almost dead battery. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440778#440778


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:34:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: V-Charger
    From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr" <handainc@madisoncounty.net>
    Bob..... I am beginning work on a new panel for a Piper Pacer I am building. Primary navigation will be by a dock mounted iPad and everything will be h ard wired. After flying for 20+ years with wires running all over the cockp it, I am determined that there will be none of that in the new bird. Howeve r I do need recharging capability for electronic devices and a reliable pane l mount USB that does not emit interference. What is the solution, as the U K source provided here does not have stock, and the unit IS pricy. M. Haught Sent from my iPad > On Apr 11, 2015, at 11:23 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroel ectric.com> wrote: > > > Virtually ALL 12 to USB charger products are > crafted with some version of the switch-mode, > buck converter design . . . > > <22018140.jpg> > In recent years, the capability and sophistication > of various step-down chargers has mushroomed. You see > bins of cigar cigar lighter adapters at the > cash register of convenience stores . . . priced > from 4 to 10 dollars each. > > > > > > You can buy guts-only boards for this and similar > products for as little as 50 cents per working item > on ebay. Here's a 4-port, 5 Amp adjustable model you can > buy for less than $5 mailed to your door. > > <2201817f.jpg> > > > > The the technology to make these capable critters for > so little money is gargantuan automated production > volumes and minimizing parts count. These convertera > all operated at 100 KHz up . . . some as high as one > Mhz. Problem is that the waveforms are anything but > sine-wave and exceedingly rich in harmonics. They > are miniature rogue transmitters. The minimalist > parts count philosophy encourages designers to > discount if not totally ignore any potential for > interference to other systems. FCC Part 15 rules > allow extra-ordinarily antagonistic emissions with > the admonition, "Users must discontinue use of > this device if it interferes with other products > or systems". > > The EASY work around is to craft a 14 to 5 volt > step down regulator with linear components. Virtually > noise free but the have to toss off a lot of heat. > They are limited to 33% efficiency by design. > > Further, another feature in the USB charging > cable protocols that can produce unexpected > behaviors. For example, I used to have a cell phone > that refused to accept power from an "unauthorized > charger" . . . Turns out that SOME appliances > expect to see SOME kinds of 'communication' from > the charger in the form of treatment of the normally > dormant data lines (The OTHER two wires in the > usb cable). > > So even if you build yourself a noise-free linear, > you may find that the target appliance rejects > power from your handy-work based on a lack of > proper hand-shake from the charger. I've not had > time to dig into this deeply . . . perhaps someone > on the List can enlighten us further. > > Given the limited, captive market that is aviation, > commercial off the shelf USB charger products > friendly to the cockpit will be pricey . . . even > if the additional parts required are only a few > cents cost. > > We had a gentleman here on the List perhaps > a year ago who was striving to bring such a product > to market. I helped him with the pennies-per-device > additions necessary to do the filtering. The design > was apparently satisfactory but I've not heard from > him since as to his experience in the marketplace. > > This isn't a complex problem. The simple-ideas and > their application supporting a successful design are > well known. The problem is that folks who buy these > devices at the convenience store cash register > out-number us by about 100:1! > > Even the so-called 'noise free' chargers advertised > only seem to speak to ripple voltage on the 5v output > while ignoring or being oblivious to the potential > for radio frequency emissions. Here's one article > going to great lengths to talk about quality, safety > and noise on output line with the word 'radio' appearing > only once. > > http://tinyurl.com/bz4nv3y > > It's a wild and wooly USB world out there but not > really difficult to thrive in. > > > Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:38:59 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Luckey <jluckey@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    Listers, I've noticed that several postings about Alternator Field circuit breakers have shown "push-to-reset" or "non-pullable" circuit breakers. I think that "pullable" breakers like the Klixon that BobN referenced or th e venerable Potter Brumfield, now Tyco W23 breakers are a better choice bec ause they allow you to shut-down the alternator at will.=C2- This can be handy for testing or in the case of a malfunctioning over-voltage module. =C2- It is definitely worth the extra $15 for this level of flexibility & safety. -Jeff On Monday, April 13, 2015 8:22 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote: >=C2- This little feller burned in two on the first trip . . . I bought a new circuit breaker, 693-T11-211-3, and tried it on the bench be fore installing it.=C2- The breaker would not trip in the O.V. circuit. =C2- So I connected the breaker directly to a 12 volt battery to test it. =C2- Instead of tripping, the breaker literally smoked. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440776#440776 - S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:56:15 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    At 09:49 2015-04-13, you wrote: >I already own a couple of 4 amp Klixon push-pulls (like the one in >the picture). Will 4 amp work instead of five? Also, when do you >anticipate the new OVP to be available for purchase? Yes, the 4A will work for MOST if not all automotive wound field alternators with CBOVP. With PM alternators, the circuit breaker carries only control current for a relay . . . hence . . . the breaker can be smaller but not necessary. As a general rule, 5A breakers cost less than the smaller sizes so 5A was selected as the 'universal' candidate for alternator control with CBOVP. The design, software are done . . . parts in hand. I've got a project in the skunkwerks world of TC aircraft that needs a fast turn around . . . OBAM play projects are on temporary hold . . . but not long. That's the nice thing about fast-turn requests. It couldn't drag out if we wanted it to! Now, if we could just run TCGA certs with the same sense of urgency . . . Bob . . .


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:26:12 AM PST US
    From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    Unfortunately I do not know the maximum current requirements for the alternator fields. It is a Rotax with the built in generator and auxiliary 40 amp alternator. On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:22 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Will 4 amp work instead of five? > > Probably, but it depends on the maximum current requirements of the > alternator field. Do you know what it is? The field will need more > current when recharging an almost dead battery. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440778#440778 > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:49:56 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    The Rotax internal alternator does not have a field. So yes, a 4 amp circuit breaker will work for the crowbar O.V. wired with a relay per Bob's Z-17. And the 40 amp alternator is relatively small, so a 4 amp breaker will be adequate for its field circuit too. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440788#440788


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:29:22 AM PST US
    From: Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero>
    Subject: Re: V-Charger
    TWFydmluIOKAkw0KV2UgdXNlIG9uZSBvZiB0aGVzZSBpbiBvdXIgQ2hlcm9rZWUsIGhhdmUgbm90 IG5vdGljZWQgYW55IGludGVyZmVyZW5jZSDigKYNCg0KaHR0cDovL0NvbW1pdGxpZnQuY29tDQoN Ck5lYWwNCg0KRnJvbTogT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEguIE1hcnZpbiBIYXVnaHQgSnINCg0KDQpCb2Iu Li4uLiBJIGFtIGJlZ2lubmluZyB3b3JrIG9uIGEgbmV3IHBhbmVsIGZvciBhIFBpcGVyIFBhY2Vy IEkgYW0gYnVpbGRpbmcuICBQcmltYXJ5IG5hdmlnYXRpb24gd2lsbCBiZSBieSBhIGRvY2sgbW91 bnRlZCBpUGFkIGFuZCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIHdpbGwgYmUgaGFyZCB3aXJlZC4gIEFmdGVyIGZseWlu ZyBmb3IgMjArIHllYXJzIHdpdGggd2lyZXMgcnVubmluZyBhbGwgb3ZlciB0aGUgY29ja3BpdCwg SSBhbSBkZXRlcm1pbmVkIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgd2lsbCBiZSBub25lIG9mIHRoYXQgaW4gdGhlIG5l dyBiaXJkLiAgSG93ZXZlciBJIGRvIG5lZWQgcmVjaGFyZ2luZyBjYXBhYmlsaXR5IGZvciBlbGVj dHJvbmljIGRldmljZXMgYW5kIGEgcmVsaWFibGUgcGFuZWwgbW91bnQgVVNCIHRoYXQgZG9lcyBu b3QgZW1pdCBpbnRlcmZlcmVuY2UuICBXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBzb2x1dGlvbiwgYXMgdGhlIFVLIHNv dXJjZSBwcm92aWRlZCBoZXJlIGRvZXMgbm90IGhhdmUgc3RvY2ssIGFuZCB0aGUgdW5pdCBJUyBw cmljeS4NCg0KTS4gSGF1Z2h0DQoNCg0KDQoNCg=


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:37:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: V-Charger
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    12 to 5 volt converters at Jameco.com SD-15A-5 $13 SKM15A-05 $25 SKA20A-05 $27 SD-25A-5 $20 -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440791#440791


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:50:59 AM PST US
    From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    Thanks guys. On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:48 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote: > > The Rotax internal alternator does not have a field. So yes, a 4 amp > circuit breaker will work for the crowbar O.V. wired with a relay per Bob's > Z-17. > And the 40 amp alternator is relatively small, so a 4 amp breaker will be > adequate for its field circuit too. > Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440788#440788 > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:03:03 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator field circuit breaker
    At 12:49 2015-04-13, you wrote: >Thanks guys. > > >On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:48 AM, user9253 ><<mailto:fransew@gmail.com>fransew@gmail.com> wrote: ><<mailto:fransew@gmail.com>fransew@gmail.com> > >The Rotax internal alternator does not have a field. So yes, a 4 amp >circuit breaker will work for the crowbar O.V. wired with a relay >per Bob's Z-17. >And the 40 amp alternator is relatively small, so a 4 amp breaker >will be adequate for its field circuit too. An interesting data point . . . the current draw of the field in an engine driven power source is NOT tightly associated with the machine's output rating. The field intensity needed to produce full output is a function of amps times turns in the field winding. As it turns out, you can get ANY intensity at ANY current if you have no restraints on volume allotted to the field winding. I've built regulators for 600A starter generators that draw no more current than the 100A alternator. Generally speaking, 10A is a BIG field current draw for any machine . . . and a 60A machine on the front of a Lycoming can produce 20A of output at 1 amp or so of field current. This is why the regulators found in the full family of aviation products are all about the same size. Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:07:46 PM PST US
    From: Roger Evenson <revenson@comcast.net>
    Subject: Do I Have a Problem?
    On a flight a couple of months ago I noticed my endurance bus voltage lower than usual. It was showing 12.5-12.9 volts, where I usually see 12.9-13.3 volts. Since it was time for my annual, and I have 5 years and 460 hours on the plane (and the voltage regulator), I 'threw' on a new Standard VR166 regulator without any diagnosis. At subsequent start-up, I noticed what looked like a healthier 13.5-13.8 volts, so I thought I guessed right, and also thought maybe my previous 13.0 volts had been a bit low for the entire 5 yrs. I've been flying! (I get about a 0.5 voltage drop from my 4-diode bridge rectifier). A couple of days ago, 35 minutes into a 1 hour flight, I got my very first low voltage alarm (which is set at 12.4v). Voltage was 11.2-11.9. My GRT EIS records engine info each second. The log showed the low voltage lasted only 6 seconds. At 40 minutes, it tripped again, lasted 17 seconds, showed 11.2-11.6 volts. It alarmed a third time at 54 minutes into the flight, lasted 13 seconds, and again showed 11.2-11.9 volts. I later checked the EIS log, and noted that each time the bus voltage went down, the field voltage went down, and the total load ammeter also went down. Any clues there? I think I have an issue that deserves more diagnosis, but then again, maybe it's just an artifact of having an EIS that just provides too much information. After all, we're talking about only 36 seconds out of a 1 hour flight. What do you think? And where should I start looking? I'd certainly rather investigate now, and not wait for a total failure while away from home. Background and a couple more questions: Wired Figure Z-11, with the B&C OV protection module. In addition to the externally-regulated (40A, B&C) alternator, the field wire goes to both a sub-panel connector (per Z23 and note 8); and also to an aux input on the EIS. (I WONDER NOW IF THIS WAS OK). A load test on the battery showed it still 'in the green', but only barely so. At 3.5 years old, I'm replacing it now. Can the Crowbar OV module go bad and cause the regulator to perceive lower bus voltage? My Crowbar OV module ground is connected first to the Master Switch, then from there goes to the common firewall ground tabs. I note this because I looked at the current Z11 figure and see that there the module ground is shown going directly to ground. But electrically, this should be the same, right? Your help will be much appreciated. Roger. RV-7A, Tucson.


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:10:49 PM PST US
    From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
    Subject: Re: V-Charger
    Thank you, Joe. Look good, especially the high efficiency SK* items, but they have a minimum output current of several hundred mA. I would like to know what happens to the output voltage when the output current drops below the minimums in the datasheets (device being charged could be off). Jan de Jong On 4/13/2015 7:36 PM, user9253 wrote: > > 12 to 5 volt converters at Jameco.com > SD-15A-5 $13 > SKM15A-05 $25 > SKA20A-05 $27 > SD-25A-5 $20 > > -------- > Joe Gores >


    Message 18


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    Time: 04:09:38 PM PST US
    Subject: OAT PROBE COMPATABILITY
    From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
    just a long shot here. does anyone know if the oat probe for a dynon skyview is compatible with a grt mini? grt doesn't know and i wouldn't really expect they would. i have it in an rv 12 kit and i won't be using a skyview. thanks for any info. bob noffs


    Message 19


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    Time: 05:42:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Do I Have a Problem?
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    I think that the low voltage alarm set-point should be closer to 13 volts to give a more advanced warning. Quote from Bob's book Appendix Z note 8 paragraph (C). > Check for increased resistance in regulator field supply wiring and components. Breakers, switches, over-voltage relays, and connectors are all contributors to regulator instability when their resistance ages upward a few milliohms in resistance. > but then again, maybe it's just an artifact of having an EIS that just provides too much information. Not at all, there is a problem that needs to be corrected. > and also to an aux input on the EIS. (I WONDER NOW IF THIS WAS OK) Definitely. The more information the better. > Can the Crowbar OV module go bad and cause the regulator to perceive lower bus voltage? Highly unlikely > But electrically, this should be the same, right? Should be, but more connections mean more possible failure points. I suggest you take some voltage measurements with the master switch on and the engine off. Use the bus as a reference point for the voltmeter black lead and measure voltage at various points between the bus and alternator field terminal. A voltage drop indicates resistance in the circuit. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440814#440814


    Message 20


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    Time: 05:51:27 PM PST US
    From: Paul Millner <millner@me.com>
    Subject: Re: OAT Probe Compatability
    Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 13, 2015, at 5:43 PM, Paul Millner <millner@icloud.com> wrote: > > What color are the wires? If they're both red/white or red/yellow, likely y es. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 13, 2015, at 4:08 PM, bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> just a long shot here. does anyone know if the oat probe for a dynon sky view is compatible with a grt mini? grt doesn't know and i wouldn't really e xpect they would. i have it in an rv 12 kit and i won't be using a skyview. >> thanks for any info. >> bob noffs >> >> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>


    Message 21


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    Time: 06:02:18 PM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: OAT PROBE COMPATABILITY
    I assume you are building the RV-12 as an OBAM experimental and not as an ELSA? For those that don't know, you can not modify from the builder's kit during construction of ELSA. It only becomes experimental and free to mod after airworthiness certificate and the 5 hr phase one is flown off. On 4/13/2015 4:08 PM, bob noffs wrote: > just a long shot here. does anyone know if the oat probe for a dynon > skyview is compatible with a grt mini? grt doesn't know and i wouldn't > really expect they would. i have it in an rv 12 kit and i won't be > using a skyview. > thanks for any info. > bob noffs > * > > > *


    Message 22


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    Time: 06:15:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: V-Charger
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/2166629.pdf I wonder what the output would be if the load were less than 300ma? Would it refuse to turn on unless it sees a certain resistance? Or would it turn on but the voltage would be unstable? Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440817#440817


    Message 23


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    Time: 06:32:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: V-Charger
    From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr" <handainc@madisoncounty.net>
    Thanks George.....will check those out. M. Haught. Sent from my iPad > On Apr 13, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Neal George <ngeorge@continentalmotors.aero> wrote: > > Marvin =C3=A2=82=AC=9C > We use one of these in our Cherokee, have not noticed any interference =C3 =A2=82=AC=C2 > > http://Commitlift.com > > Neal > > From: On Behalf Of H. Marvin Haught Jr > > > Bob..... I am beginning work on a new panel for a Piper Pacer I am buildin g. Primary navigation will be by a dock mounted iPad and everything will be hard wired. After flying for 20+ years with wires running all over the coc kpit, I am determined that there will be none of that in the new bird. Howe ver I do need recharging capability for electronic devices and a reliable pa nel mount USB that does not emit interference. What is the solution, as the UK source provided here does not have stock, and the unit IS pricy. > > M. Haught > > > > )=C2=AD=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2{l=B97=C2=B6r=B0h=C2=AFM4=C3=93M=1Fi=C3 =87=C5=93=C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=ABN=17=82 =ACz=C2=BA=04=A2=C3=A7-=C2=AE'=0B=C5-=C3=8BD=84=A2=C2=A8=C2=A5=16 =C5-=C3=AE=84=A2K=1E=C2=B6=17=C5=92j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',.+-=15=C3=C2 =AD=C2=BA=C2=B7=C2=AC5=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AE=C3=9A=1B=C2=AE=C5=92,z =C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3 =8B=C5=93=C2=AB=0B=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5- =BAb=C2=A2p+r=18=C2=AFy'=C5=A1=C2=AD=C3=88C=C2=A3 =C3=A5=C2=A1=C2=A7{ =C2=AC=C2=81=C2=AE=C5=92,x(Z=C2=B4P=10>=1A-=C2=A2=C3=88Z=C2=AD=C3=C2=A7v k=C5=93-k=C5=93-j+y=C2=A8ky=C3=B8m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C &j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AC=07=C2 =AB I^r=C3=9A=C3=A2p=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6=1Bm=C2=A7=C3=C3=B0=C3=83 =C5 =A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=1C=C2=A2o=C3=8Dj=C3=B8 j=C3=9A+=01=C3=C3=A8 =12W=C5=93=C2=B6=C2=B8=C5=93.+-=C3=BD=C2=A3M=13=C2=8D $=93=10=11NEC=12 I=C2=A9=C5=BE=9A=C2=B7=C5=A1=C2=B5=C3=8A'=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=ADj[(j=C3=B6=C2 =A2=A2=C2=C3=A5z=C3=B8=C5=A1=C2=B6=17=93y=C2=B1h=C2=AE=C3=A9=C2 =ACj=1A=C3=9E~=1Bm=C2=A7=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2=C2=B2f=C2=AD=C2=AE =B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=C5=A1=1Bm=C2=A7=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2=C2=B2f=C2 =AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B6=B9=C5-=C3=8BB=C2=A2{ k=B0=C2=BB=C2=AD=C5-=B0=C3'y=C2=B4=C2=A2=C2=B5=C3=A4=C3=A1jy 2=C2=A2=C3=A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2=AE=07=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2=A9=C2=C5 -=C3=AD1=C2=ABm=0E=C2=B6=C2=A5=A2=C3=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=90=1D=C5=A1)=C3 =9A-=C2=B7=C5=B8-=C3=9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD=C2=AE =B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B7(=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2xm=C2=B6=C5 =B8=C3=C3=83=0C&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C2r=B0=C3=AD=C2=AE &=C3=AE=C2=B6*'=C3=BD=C2=AF=C3=9B=C3=BD=C3=BA'=C2=B7=C3=BAk{=C3=B6=C3=A8w/=C3 =A1=C2=B6i


    Message 24


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    Time: 06:45:01 PM PST US
    From: "Paul A. Fisher" <paulf@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: Do I Have a Problem?
    I would also suggest you verify nice "gas tight" connections on everything in the charging circuit, including all of the regulator wires, the alternator wires, and don't forget your grounds. As Joe said, lower voltage indicates resistance in the circuit, and that is often a lose connection. Fortunately, it is also one of the easiest things (cheapest!) to fix! Just a suggestion... Paul On 4/13/2015 7:41 PM, user9253 wrote: > > I think that the low voltage alarm set-point should be closer to 13 volts to give a more advanced warning. > > Quote from Bob's book Appendix Z note 8 paragraph (C). > >> Check for increased resistance in regulator field supply wiring and components. Breakers, switches, over-voltage relays, and connectors are all contributors to regulator instability when their resistance ages upward a few milliohms in resistance. > >> but then again, maybe it's just an artifact of having an EIS that just provides too much information. > Not at all, there is a problem that needs to be corrected. > > >> and also to an aux input on the EIS. (I WONDER NOW IF THIS WAS OK) > Definitely. The more information the better. > > >> Can the Crowbar OV module go bad and cause the regulator to perceive lower bus voltage? > Highly unlikely > > >> But electrically, this should be the same, right? > Should be, but more connections mean more possible failure points. > > I suggest you take some voltage measurements with the master switch on and the engine off. Use the bus as a reference point for the voltmeter black lead and measure voltage at various points between the bus and alternator field terminal. A voltage drop indicates resistance in the circuit. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440814#440814 > >


    Message 25


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    Time: 06:46:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: OAT PROBE COMPATABILITY
    From: bob noffs <icubob@gmail.com>
    that's true. bob On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:00 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> wrote: > kellym@aviating.com> > > I assume you are building the RV-12 as an OBAM experimental and not as an > ELSA? > For those that don't know, you can not modify from the builder's kit > during construction of ELSA. It only becomes experimental and free to mod > after airworthiness certificate and the 5 hr phase one is flown off. > > On 4/13/2015 4:08 PM, bob noffs wrote: > >> just a long shot here. does anyone know if the oat probe for a dynon >> skyview is compatible with a grt mini? grt doesn't know and i wouldn't >> really expect they would. i have it in an rv 12 kit and i won't be using a >> skyview. >> thanks for any info. >> bob noffs >> * >> >> >> * >> > >


    Message 26


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    Time: 08:13:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: OAT Probe Compatability
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    It is worth a try. According to the manuals of each brand, polarity of the two wires does not matter. If your Dynon probe has 3 wires, then use the yellow and blue, but not the red (insulate it). -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440825#440825




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