Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:45 AM - Shunt size (John Tipton)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: ammeter shunt (user9253)
3. 04:42 AM - =?utf-8?Q?_ammeter_shunt? ()
4. 07:42 AM - Re: ammeter shunt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:50 AM - Re: Shunt size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:07 AM - Re: Shunt size (Mike Nellis)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Starter Solenoid behavior with low Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:46 AM - Re: Shunt size (JOHN TIPTON)
9. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Shunt size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:03 AM - Re: Shunt size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 12:41 PM - Re: Do I Have a Problem? (revenson@comcast.net)
12. 03:06 PM - Re: Do I Have a Problem? (user9253)
13. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Do I Have a Problem? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 04:15 PM - Re: Re: Do I Have a Problem? (revenson@comcast.net)
15. 07:32 PM - Re: Do I Have a Problem? (user9253)
16. 11:02 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
17. 11:04 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Hi Guys
Do I need, for a 60amp alternator, 40amp ammeter, a 60amp or a 40amp Shunt
Regards
John
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: ammeter shunt |
> Hello,
> Im installing Dynons Flight DEK D180. The instructions show the ammeter shunt
installed in one of three locations on the positive side of the system. Taking
a page from AeroElectric Connection book, I asked tech support if I could install
the shunt on the ground side of the battery. Im not getting a cogent answer.
Is there any reason I cannot install the shunt on the ground side or is there
something going on in the inside the D180 box that wont allow this?
> Thanks,
> Ken
The D-180 does not care where the shunt is located or what the polarity is. If
the D-180 ammeter display has the wrong polarity, then just switch the 2 small
ammeter sensor wires. As others have pointed out, the shunt should NOT be in
the starter circuit because it is not rated for starter current and because
starter performance will be degraded.
Here is a quote from the Dynon D-180 installation manual:
> Note that the ammeter shunt is not designed for the high current required by
the starter and must
> not be installed in the electrical path between the battery and starter.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441572#441572
Message 3
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Subject: | AeroElectric-List:_ammeter_shunt? |
DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KSGVsbG8sDQoNCknigJltIGluc3RhbGxpbmcg
RHlub27igJlzIEZsaWdodCBERUsgRDE4MC4gVGhlIGluc3RydWN0aW9ucyBzaG93IHRoZSBhbW1l
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bGwgdGhlIHNodW50IG9uIHRoZSBncm91bmQgc2lkZSBvciBpcyB0aGVyZSBzb21ldGhpbmcgZ29p
bmcgb24gaW4gdGhlIGluc2lkZSB0aGUgRDE4MCDigJxib3jigJ0gdGhhdCB3b27igJl0IGFsbG93
IHRoaXM/DQoNClRoYW5rcywNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpKdXN0IGtlZXAgaW4gbWluZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBu
ZWdhdGl2ZSBzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBiYXR0ZXJ5IGlzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFydGVyIGNpcmN1aXQgcGF0
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ZmFjdHVyZXIgcmVjb21tZW5kYXRpb25zLg0KDQoNCg0KUm9nZXI
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: ammeter shunt |
At 06:36 2015-05-01, you wrote:
>Hello,
>I=99m installing Dynon=99s Flight DEK D180. The
>instructions show the ammeter shunt installed in
>one of three locations on the positive side of
>the system. Taking a page from AeroElectric
>Connection book, I asked tech support if I could
>install the shunt on the ground side of the
>battery. I=99m not getting a cogent answer. Is
>there any reason I cannot install the shunt on
>the ground side or is there something going on
>in the inside the D180 =9Cbox=9D that won=99t allow this?
Say you DO put it in the (-) side of the battery . . .
how would you use the information presented?
Ammeters are pretty worthless in the cockpit.
They WERE originally installed as a go/no-go
indicator of system performance. The zero
center, un-calibrated instruments were
battery-ammeter clones of the instruments
found in cars. As long as the needle was at
or above 'zero' all was right with the
universe.
Emacs!
If your DEK180 has a voltage display
function . . . and better yet, a low volts
warning function, the usefulness of the
panel mounted ammeter as a flight management
instrument goes to zero.
If you become aware of a low voltage condition
that mitigates with reduction in load, then
the alternator is CRIPPLED and you reduce loads
to keep voltage at or above battery discharge
level of 12.5 volts. If no mitigation is
possible, alternator is CRAPPED and your
plans are necessarily modified.
Values of CURRENT under all conditions
of flight are predictable and should be known
as part of your load analysis and system design
goals. The idea that having a continuously
monitored current will assist with a aw-S%$T-
flip-a-switch situation in the cockpit is
unrealistic and easily replaced with PLAN-B
that calls for flipping at most 2 switches
with predictable result that does not depend
on an ammeter for confirmation.
Recommend you put the shunt in the alternator
b-lead. That will be most useful as a GROUND
diagnostics tool AFTER plan-b got you comfortably
on the ground.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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At 05:43 2015-05-01, you wrote:
Hi Guys
Do I need, for a 60amp alternator, 40amp ammeter, a 60amp or a 40amp Shunt
Regards
John
Do I assume correctly that it's a calibrated device
with 40A full scale? If the calibration is to be
meaningful, then you need a 40A shunt DESIGNED
to work with that ammeter. MOST shunted instruments
use 50mV shunts . . . but in recent years, products
designed for something other than 50mv have popped
up on the market.
The credible answer to your question needs
more information. What kind of instrument
do you have?
Bob . . .
Message 6
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I've recently purchased some eBay instruments (V/A) with both 500a and 50a
shunts that are 75mv.
On May 1, 2015 9:52 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 05:43 2015-05-01, you wrote:
> jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Do I need, for a 60amp alternator, 40amp ammeter, a 60amp or a 40amp Shunt
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
> Do I assume correctly that it's a calibrated device
> with 40A full scale? If the calibration is to be
> meaningful, then you need a 40A shunt DESIGNED
> to work with that ammeter. MOST shunted instruments
> use 50mV shunts . . . but in recent years, products
> designed for something other than 50mv have popped
> up on the market.
>
> The credible answer to your question needs
> more information. What kind of instrument
> do you have?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Starter Solenoid behavior with low Battery |
At 18:08 2015-04-30, you wrote:
>I arrived at the 10 volt figure by the hasty assumption that the
>Skytec trouble shooting guide says that a voltage of less than 10 is
>not a starter problem.
>
>My symptoms are a, "bump and continue" where the prop hangs for a
>second and then continues. It starts but I thought it should be better.
Absolutely. The lightweight, PM starters are not
known for their low rpm torque output. This is
why B&C decided to stay with series wound starters
after several years of sifting the sands of
performance on the various products.
To be sure, PM starter systems impose greater
stresses on the rest of the system. They were
never a big problem in cars and trucks because
nobody balks at carrying around 20 to 30 pound
batteries, they don't have battery contactors
and don't have a system design goal that prompts
considering an external starter contactor.
I've had it in my head for about 10 years to
offer a cranking system performance analyzer
that runs out of the USB port of a laptop
and does dynamic data acquisition and analysis
of that data to identify the worst offender
voltage drops during cranking.
These are hard numbers to capture by observation
on an analog multimeter . . . impossible on
a digital multimeter. Child's play with an
agile micro-controller.
Assertions made here on the List correctly
identify the importance of high conductivity
joints and wires. But just for grins, try
putting jumper cables from your battery
to a big-honker battery and see if you
don't observe a quantum jump in cranking
performance. In my experience, battery
source impedance is a the MAJOR contributor
to disappointing starter performance
with either PM or wound field machines
. . . but ESPECIALLY PM.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Hi Bob
Yes: a standard Vans 40-0-40 ammeter (steam gauge setup) so a 40 amp shunt - got
it
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441579#441579
Message 9
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At 10:44 2015-05-01, you wrote:
><jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
>Hi Bob
>
>Yes: a standard Vans 40-0-40 ammeter (steam gauge setup) so a 40 amp
>shunt - got it
>
>John
Make sure you get the shunt from Van's . . .
I think the last time I put my hands on Van's
ammeter, it was set up for a 70 mV shunt.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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At 10:06 2015-05-01, you wrote:
>I've recently purchased some eBay instruments (V/A) with both 500a
>and 50a shunts that are 75mv.
Yeah, I've run across some Chinese products that
were wrapped around 75mv shunts. I think Van's
ammeter is a +/- 75mv instrument.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Do I Have a Problem? |
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Subject: | Re: Do I Have a Problem? |
Assuming that the voltmeter is connected to the ebus, then I would expect somewhere
between 0.5 to 1 volt increase when the ebus switch is turned on. Of even
greater concern is the low electrical system voltage. It should be closer
to 14 volts with the alternator running. And with the engine off, a fully charged
battery should have a voltage near 13, but at least 12.5.
Check the voltage with another meter.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441595#441595
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Subject: | Re: Do I Have a Problem? |
At 17:05 2015-05-01, you wrote:
Assuming that the voltmeter is connected to the ebus, then I would
expect somewhere between 0.5 to 1 volt increase when the ebus switch
is turned on. Of even greater concern is the low electrical system
voltage. It should be closer to 14 volts with the alternator
running. And with the engine off, a fully charged battery should
have a voltage near 13, but at least 12.5.
Check the voltage with another meter.
You took the words out of my mouth . . .
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: Do I Have a Problem? |
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Subject: | Re: Do I Have a Problem? |
Your latest numbers are in the ballpark except for the ebus voltage in flight with
the ebus switch turned on. Check the ebus circuit for bad connections and
check the ebus switch for high internal resistance.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441602#441602
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Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
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The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
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Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
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post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
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If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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|
Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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