AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Fri 05/01/15


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:45 AM - Shunt size (John Tipton)
     2. 04:23 AM - Re: ammeter shunt (user9253)
     3. 04:42 AM - =?utf-8?Q?_ammeter_shunt? ()
     4. 07:42 AM - Re: ammeter shunt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 07:50 AM - Re: Shunt size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 08:07 AM - Re: Shunt size (Mike Nellis)
     7. 08:39 AM - Re: Starter Solenoid behavior with low Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 08:46 AM - Re: Shunt size (JOHN TIPTON)
     9. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Shunt size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 11:03 AM - Re: Shunt size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 12:41 PM - Re: Do I Have a Problem? (revenson@comcast.net)
    12. 03:06 PM - Re: Do I Have a Problem? (user9253)
    13. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Do I Have a Problem? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    14. 04:15 PM - Re: Re: Do I Have a Problem? (revenson@comcast.net)
    15. 07:32 PM - Re: Do I Have a Problem? (user9253)
    16. 11:02 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    17. 11:04 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:45:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Shunt size
    From: John Tipton <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    Hi Guys Do I need, for a 60amp alternator, 40amp ammeter, a 60amp or a 40amp Shunt Regards John Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x----


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:23:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ammeter shunt
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    > Hello, > Im installing Dynons Flight DEK D180. The instructions show the ammeter shunt installed in one of three locations on the positive side of the system. Taking a page from AeroElectric Connection book, I asked tech support if I could install the shunt on the ground side of the battery. Im not getting a cogent answer. Is there any reason I cannot install the shunt on the ground side or is there something going on in the inside the D180 box that wont allow this? > Thanks, > Ken The D-180 does not care where the shunt is located or what the polarity is. If the D-180 ammeter display has the wrong polarity, then just switch the 2 small ammeter sensor wires. As others have pointed out, the shunt should NOT be in the starter circuit because it is not rated for starter current and because starter performance will be degraded. Here is a quote from the Dynon D-180 installation manual: > Note that the ammeter shunt is not designed for the high current required by the starter and must > not be installed in the electrical path between the battery and starter. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441572#441572


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:42:03 AM PST US
    From: <rnjcurtis@charter.net>
    Subject: AeroElectric-List:_ammeter_shunt?
    DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KSGVsbG8sDQoNCknigJltIGluc3RhbGxpbmcg RHlub27igJlzIEZsaWdodCBERUsgRDE4MC4gVGhlIGluc3RydWN0aW9ucyBzaG93IHRoZSBhbW1l dGVyIHNodW50IGluc3RhbGxlZCBpbiBvbmUgb2YgdGhyZWUgbG9jYXRpb25zIG9uIHRoZSBwb3Np dGl2ZSBzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0uIFRha2luZyBhIHBhZ2UgZnJvbSBBZXJvRWxlY3RyaWMg Q29ubmVjdGlvbiBib29rLCBJIGFza2VkIHRlY2ggc3VwcG9ydCBpZiBJIGNvdWxkIGluc3RhbGwg dGhlIHNodW50IG9uIHRoZSBncm91bmQgc2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgYmF0dGVyeS4gSeKAmW0gbm90IGdl dHRpbmcgYSBjb2dlbnQgYW5zd2VyLiBJcyB0aGVyZSBhbnkgcmVhc29uIEkgY2Fubm90IGluc3Rh bGwgdGhlIHNodW50IG9uIHRoZSBncm91bmQgc2lkZSBvciBpcyB0aGVyZSBzb21ldGhpbmcgZ29p bmcgb24gaW4gdGhlIGluc2lkZSB0aGUgRDE4MCDigJxib3jigJ0gdGhhdCB3b27igJl0IGFsbG93 IHRoaXM/DQoNClRoYW5rcywNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpKdXN0IGtlZXAgaW4gbWluZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBu ZWdhdGl2ZSBzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBiYXR0ZXJ5IGlzIGluIHRoZSBzdGFydGVyIGNpcmN1aXQgcGF0 aCwgYW5kIHRoZSBzaHVudCBzaG91bGQgbm90IGJlIGluIHRoaXMgcGF0aCwgcGVyIHRoZSBtYW51 ZmFjdHVyZXIgcmVjb21tZW5kYXRpb25zLg0KDQoNCg0KUm9nZXI


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:42:46 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: ammeter shunt
    At 06:36 2015-05-01, you wrote: >Hello, >I=99m installing Dynon=99s Flight DEK D180. The >instructions show the ammeter shunt installed in >one of three locations on the positive side of >the system. Taking a page from AeroElectric >Connection book, I asked tech support if I could >install the shunt on the ground side of the >battery. I=99m not getting a cogent answer. Is >there any reason I cannot install the shunt on >the ground side or is there something going on >in the inside the D180 =9Cbox=9D that won=99t allow this? Say you DO put it in the (-) side of the battery . . . how would you use the information presented? Ammeters are pretty worthless in the cockpit. They WERE originally installed as a go/no-go indicator of system performance. The zero center, un-calibrated instruments were battery-ammeter clones of the instruments found in cars. As long as the needle was at or above 'zero' all was right with the universe. Emacs! If your DEK180 has a voltage display function . . . and better yet, a low volts warning function, the usefulness of the panel mounted ammeter as a flight management instrument goes to zero. If you become aware of a low voltage condition that mitigates with reduction in load, then the alternator is CRIPPLED and you reduce loads to keep voltage at or above battery discharge level of 12.5 volts. If no mitigation is possible, alternator is CRAPPED and your plans are necessarily modified. Values of CURRENT under all conditions of flight are predictable and should be known as part of your load analysis and system design goals. The idea that having a continuously monitored current will assist with a aw-S%$T- flip-a-switch situation in the cockpit is unrealistic and easily replaced with PLAN-B that calls for flipping at most 2 switches with predictable result that does not depend on an ammeter for confirmation. Recommend you put the shunt in the alternator b-lead. That will be most useful as a GROUND diagnostics tool AFTER plan-b got you comfortably on the ground. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:50:43 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Shunt size
    At 05:43 2015-05-01, you wrote: Hi Guys Do I need, for a 60amp alternator, 40amp ammeter, a 60amp or a 40amp Shunt Regards John Do I assume correctly that it's a calibrated device with 40A full scale? If the calibration is to be meaningful, then you need a 40A shunt DESIGNED to work with that ammeter. MOST shunted instruments use 50mV shunts . . . but in recent years, products designed for something other than 50mv have popped up on the market. The credible answer to your question needs more information. What kind of instrument do you have? Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:07:36 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Shunt size
    From: Mike Nellis <mike@bmnellis.com>
    I've recently purchased some eBay instruments (V/A) with both 500a and 50a shunts that are 75mv. On May 1, 2015 9:52 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 05:43 2015-05-01, you wrote: > jmtipton@btopenworld.com> > > Hi Guys > > Do I need, for a 60amp alternator, 40amp ammeter, a 60amp or a 40amp Shunt > > Regards > > John > > Do I assume correctly that it's a calibrated device > with 40A full scale? If the calibration is to be > meaningful, then you need a 40A shunt DESIGNED > to work with that ammeter. MOST shunted instruments > use 50mV shunts . . . but in recent years, products > designed for something other than 50mv have popped > up on the market. > > The credible answer to your question needs > more information. What kind of instrument > do you have? > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:39:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Starter Solenoid behavior with low Battery
    At 18:08 2015-04-30, you wrote: >I arrived at the 10 volt figure by the hasty assumption that the >Skytec trouble shooting guide says that a voltage of less than 10 is >not a starter problem. > >My symptoms are a, "bump and continue" where the prop hangs for a >second and then continues. It starts but I thought it should be better. Absolutely. The lightweight, PM starters are not known for their low rpm torque output. This is why B&C decided to stay with series wound starters after several years of sifting the sands of performance on the various products. To be sure, PM starter systems impose greater stresses on the rest of the system. They were never a big problem in cars and trucks because nobody balks at carrying around 20 to 30 pound batteries, they don't have battery contactors and don't have a system design goal that prompts considering an external starter contactor. I've had it in my head for about 10 years to offer a cranking system performance analyzer that runs out of the USB port of a laptop and does dynamic data acquisition and analysis of that data to identify the worst offender voltage drops during cranking. These are hard numbers to capture by observation on an analog multimeter . . . impossible on a digital multimeter. Child's play with an agile micro-controller. Assertions made here on the List correctly identify the importance of high conductivity joints and wires. But just for grins, try putting jumper cables from your battery to a big-honker battery and see if you don't observe a quantum jump in cranking performance. In my experience, battery source impedance is a the MAJOR contributor to disappointing starter performance with either PM or wound field machines . . . but ESPECIALLY PM. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:46:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Shunt size
    From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    Hi Bob Yes: a standard Vans 40-0-40 ammeter (steam gauge setup) so a 40 amp shunt - got it John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441579#441579


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:01:53 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Shunt size
    At 10:44 2015-05-01, you wrote: ><jmtipton@btopenworld.com> > >Hi Bob > >Yes: a standard Vans 40-0-40 ammeter (steam gauge setup) so a 40 amp >shunt - got it > >John Make sure you get the shunt from Van's . . . I think the last time I put my hands on Van's ammeter, it was set up for a 70 mV shunt. Bob . . .


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:03:17 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Shunt size
    At 10:06 2015-05-01, you wrote: >I've recently purchased some eBay instruments (V/A) with both 500a >and 50a shunts that are 75mv. Yeah, I've run across some Chinese products that were wrapped around 75mv shunts. I think Van's ammeter is a +/- 75mv instrument. Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:41:07 PM PST US
    From: revenson@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Do I Have a Problem?
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:06:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Do I Have a Problem?
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    Assuming that the voltmeter is connected to the ebus, then I would expect somewhere between 0.5 to 1 volt increase when the ebus switch is turned on. Of even greater concern is the low electrical system voltage. It should be closer to 14 volts with the alternator running. And with the engine off, a fully charged battery should have a voltage near 13, but at least 12.5. Check the voltage with another meter. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441595#441595


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:19:08 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Do I Have a Problem?
    At 17:05 2015-05-01, you wrote: Assuming that the voltmeter is connected to the ebus, then I would expect somewhere between 0.5 to 1 volt increase when the ebus switch is turned on. Of even greater concern is the low electrical system voltage. It should be closer to 14 volts with the alternator running. And with the engine off, a fully charged battery should have a voltage near 13, but at least 12.5. Check the voltage with another meter. You took the words out of my mouth . . . Bob . . .


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:15:41 PM PST US
    From: revenson@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Do I Have a Problem?
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:32:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Do I Have a Problem?
    From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
    Your latest numbers are in the ballpark except for the ebus voltage in flight with the ebus switch turned on. Check the ebus circuit for bad connections and check the ebus switch for high internal resistance. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441602#441602


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:02:10 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains AeroElectric-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. 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You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * AeroElectric-List.FAQ - Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:04:33 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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