Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:46 AM - Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (mmoyle)
2. 11:25 AM - Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Matt Dralle)
3. 11:59 AM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Ross Home)
4. 12:03 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Dj Merrill)
5. 12:11 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Earl Gmail)
6. 12:13 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Stein Bruch)
7. 12:18 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (H. Marvin Haught)
8. 12:28 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (rv7a.builder)
9. 01:35 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (fedico94@mchsi.com)
10. 02:13 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (H. Marvin Haught Jr.)
11. 02:35 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (BobsV35B@aol.com)
12. 02:41 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Matt Dralle)
13. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (David Lloyd)
14. 04:11 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (user9253)
15. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (David Lloyd)
16. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (ARGOLDMAN@aol.com)
17. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (don van santen)
18. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases ()
19. 06:19 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (H. Marvin Haught)
20. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Rick Lark)
21. 06:38 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (A R Goldman)
22. 06:40 PM - Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Matt Dralle)
23. 06:57 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (BobsV35B@aol.com)
24. 06:58 PM - Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases (Christopher Barber)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress |
First time posting here...the guy who didn't clean up his dwg.... Omit hidden construction
lines that showed up when I converted to a raster file to get something
to Marv. It's fixed on my end... Gone is the diode from the alternator,
and the battery symbol has been corrected...now a ground symbol. I've briefly
looked at the wiring schematic Bob emailed to me.
Here's the email Bob sent. I'll add to this post below...
Can you tell us more about your project? The Pacer
is my Canadian 'dream machine' . . . I've often
thought that if I lived in Canada, I'd de-cert
a nice airframe and engine, strip the electrical,
install cargo pad in back seat, put nice bucket
seats in the front and end up with a pretty agile,
low-cost, mo-gas powered CC machine for the wife
and I . . .
So much for fantasies . . . how can the List
help?
Can you give us a narrative on the hardware you've
already purchased . . . alternator, regulator, battery,
radios, instruments, etc. I presume this is going
to be an Alaskan workhorse. Did you get your copy
of the 'Connection?
You might take advantage of the breaker-list
and see what is already known about what items
will need DC power and how much energy those
gizmos use. This page becomes the index for
following page-per-system drawings.
Bob . . .
The Pacer as Marv described was purchased in June of 2013. Landing gear failed
here at home. Initial plan was to install a new set of Univair gear legs...that
changed when I found hidden damage from the previous three wrecks. Me being
a person who can't leave things alone...opened a can of worms. Stripped to
the bare fuselage. Repared the bent airframe. STC's for 3" extended PA18 gear
legs and Maule oleo struts...(Trimmer), Maule fuel valve STC Which allowed
a new fuel system with a both setting at the valve
(Trimmer), right and left seaplane door STC (Trimmer), Copper River Airmotive 150
hp O320 engine conversion....had a full power prop strike on the sweet running
O290D. Lycon 150 to 160hp up grade. PA18 tail feathers, Borer prop and Odyssey
batter STC from Sveen's. Pierce Aero gascolator, sky light and rudder
trim. New Cub doctor firewall to replace the crunched original and a new instrument
panel with smaller corner radius...which makes enough room to locate the
six pack over the left yoke shaft. Tail reinforcement, lower longeron repair
at the tail post, thicker flying wire bracket and solid bushing for the tail
spring bolt. Float fittings, water rudder cable pulley mounts under the fabric.
Fabric is Superflight system 7. The instrument panel uses the original six
pack less the DG. In its place I've installed Ei's new CGR 30-P deluxe.
Ei's USB power supply for the Bride/co-pilot's entertainment and a Lone Star
dual port USB power supply. The lone star will be a dedicated to the flush mount
iPad Air (foreflight) and the Stratus 2. Radio is a Trig 6 watt unit, PS
3000 intercom, and the Sandia transponder. Vacuum gauge and a vertical card
compass on top of the panel.
I've installed the battery under the left seat along with a continuous duty and
intermittent duty solenoids. This is my first airplane rebuild, first airplane
wiring harness. It doesn't mean I'm a newbie to concept, design and construction.
Started out as a diesel mechanic for Diamond Reo, Mack Truck, Kenworth
and IHC. More school, RA. Hanson Inc...have designed and built machines around
the globe. Departed as the director of mining, general manager of the Goodnews
Bay Platinum Mine and the President of Raylo C.A. a Venezuelan mining
corporation. Back to school...primary care provider for IHS.....until the affordable
care act.....did that in.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443660#443660
Message 2
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| Subject: | Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both
the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order
up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on
the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following:
Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge
will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a
company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Matt,
You are "lucky" that they will even consider repairing it. In my rebuild of
by 6A, I thought my GX-60 was on the blink and found out that nobody could
repair it. I did talk to one seller of used avionic who said he used RC
Avionic in Minneapolis to repair the unrepairable. It turned out my GX-60
was fine so I never followed up. You can try. The number I was given was
1-800-383-0281 and talk with Gene.
Ross N9PT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Dralle
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:13 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
--> <dralle@matronics.com>
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens
of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll
just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King
KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only
option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the
MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4
pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
On 06/17/2015 02:12 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
I hear ya, but realistically what choice is there? They pretty much
have a monopoly on gear that will interface with a modern EFIS system.
Val Avionics offers COM and NAV solutions that will "talk EFIS", but
that's about it.
Avidyne offers a WAAS approach certified GPS solution, which is just as
outrageously priced as the new Garmin stuff. For anything even
approaching a cost that most of us mere mortals can afford, the only
options are used Garmin 430s or 480s.
There are more options in the transponder market, such as Trig and King,
and plenty of ADS-B solutions it seems.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Matt, I wonder if that attitude only resides in the panel mount division? M
y experience with their portable devices has been satisfactory to good..
Earl
> On Jun 17, 2015, at 13:12, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens
of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll
just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King K
X-125 on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told t
he following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My on
ly option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the M
INIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pi
eces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business w
ith a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
This doesn't sound right. Sounds to me like someone just didn't want to deal
with you (and it likely wasn't Garmin in this case). I don't know what or
how you handled yourself, but sometimes you'll get more with honey than with
vinegar - or perhaps the person you spoke with perhaps was slightly
mis-informed.
To be blunt, the lenses should be readily available (at least they were last
time we got some). I'm sorry they aren't a $4 piece of plexi (there is some
fancy schmancy coatings on them and such), but the GTX lens is around $26
and I think the SL lens around $65.
My recommendation would be to calm down a bit, sit back and take a breath
before indicting Garmin in their entirety based on a conversation with one
person.
Not defending anyone or indicting or flaming anyone, but your experience
just sounds like we don't have the "whole story".....might I humbly suggest
that before blasting this to every list you manage that you perhaps speak to
someone else first (or maybe even Garmin directly)?
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Dralle
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:13 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
--> <dralle@matronics.com>
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens
of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll
just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King
KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only
option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the
MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4
pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Matt -
What program do you use for your builders log?
Unfortunately, your experience that has generally been my experience, although
David Clark has provided exceptional service (dog chewed up my favorite headset),
and iCom stood behind their little comm radio quite well and efficiently.
I will be very cautious at choosing Garmin stuff for my project.
M. Haught
> On Jun 17, 2015, at 1:12 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125
on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM
charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much cheap
er? Just a thought. John Robinson
=C2- From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens
of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll
just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King
KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told th
e following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My on
ly option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the
MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4
pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business wi
th a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport.=C2- Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.=C2- Archives
too!
For entertainment purposes only.=C2- http://klvk.matronics.com
-
S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy of Garmin.
bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750. Software for maintiaing
G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year. The GPS from Jeppensen
is another $500/yr.
Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR recertification
by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude. The GSU73 (computer brain)had to
be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat rate repair of $500.
Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and use laptop to correct.
GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair problem than
my vacuum instruments. Repair is simplified, once the business model progresses,
there is no further need for avionic shops. Plug and play ala Dynon/Advanced
along with local FBO removal and service at central location means any
FBO becomes an avionics shop. Every 2 years remove just the computer send in
for test and certification at same cost that avionics shop would be paid. MY
equipment was seviced within 7 days. Local FBO only needs to do test for integrity
of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall.
BAD--you are at their mercy for software. Software upgrade for G3X should probably
be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet versions.
They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purchase of
new hardware. This improves their bottom line when they are so inclined.
Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to compete. Company
gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (who require recurrent
training and have varying degree of competency).
Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from now I
may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and the technology changes
so radically that what you buy today is obsolete/unsupported in a short
space of time. Some companies in this area last only a few short years.
MGL is great but will they be around ? Dynon has good software prices but then
you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars. In short they all
have an angle but the cost will be the same. Look at the marketing angle of
smart phones. Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for instrument panel.
What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin (G3X) could be replaced
with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all the while the FAA
piddles along with NextGen.
Robert Federhofer
----- Original Message -----
From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much cheaper?
Just a thought. John Robinson
From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both
the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order
up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on
the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following:
Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge
will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a
company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
-
S -
-
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Good analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with
ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam gauges,
as my instrument flying days are over. When I get to my "keeper"
project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs affordable
programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for now, steam
gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.
M. Haught
On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94@mchsi.com wrote:
>
> My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy of Garmin.
bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750. Software for maintiaing
G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year. The GPS from Jeppensen
is another $500/yr.
> Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR recertification
by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude. The GSU73 (computer brain)had to
be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat rate repair of $500.
Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and use laptop to correct.
>
> GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair problem
than my vacuum instruments. Repair is simplified, once the business model progresses,
there is no further need for avionic shops. Plug and play ala Dynon/Advanced
along with local FBO removal and service at central location means any
FBO becomes an avionics shop. Every 2 years remove just the computer send
in for test and certification at same cost that avionics shop would be paid. MY
equipment was seviced within 7 days. Local FBO only needs to do test for integrity
of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall.
>
> BAD--you are at their mercy for software. Software upgrade for G3X should probably
be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet versions.
> They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purchase
of new hardware. This improves their bottom line when they are so inclined.
> Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to compete. Company
gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (who require recurrent
training and have varying degree of competency).
>
> Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from now
I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and the technology
changes so radically that what you buy today is obsolete/unsupported in a short
space of time. Some companies in this area last only a few short years.
> MGL is great but will they be around ? Dynon has good software prices but then
you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars. In short they all
have an angle but the cost will be the same. Look at the marketing angle of
smart phones. Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for instrument panel.
What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin (G3X) could be replaced
with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all the while the FAA
piddles along with NextGen.
>
> Robert Federhofer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder@yahoo.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
> I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much cheaper?
Just a thought. John Robinson
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125
on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM
charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
> -
> S -
> -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).
I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping an
airplane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!
It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable gyroscopes,
let alone brand new ones.
Low cost means using glass.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
handainc@madisoncounty.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "H. Marvin Haught Jr. "
<handainc@madisoncounty.net>
Good analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with
ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam gauges,
as my instrument flying days are over. When I get to my "keeper"
project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs affordable
programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for now, steam
gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.
M. Haught
On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94@mchsi.com wrote:
>
> My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy of
Garmin. bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750.
Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year. The GPS
from Jeppensen is another $500/yr.
> Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR
recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude. The GSU73 (computer
brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat rate
repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and use
laptop to correct.
>
> GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair
problem than my vacuum instruments. Repair is simplified, once the business
model progresses, there is no further need for avionic shops. Plug and play
ala Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central
location means any FBO becomes an avionics shop. Every 2 years remove just
the computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics
shop would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days. Local FBO only
needs to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall.
>
> BAD--you are at their mercy for software. Software upgrade for G3X
should probably be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet
versions.
> They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring
purchase of new hardware. This improves their bottom line when they are so
inclined.
> Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to
compete. Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (who
require recurrent training and have varying degree of competency).
>
> Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years
from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and the
technology changes so radically that what you buy today is
obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time. Some companies in this area last
only a few
short years.
> MGL is great but will they be around ? Dynon has good software prices
but then you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars. In
short they all have an angle but the cost will be the same. Look at the
marketing angle of smart phones. Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads
for instrument panel. What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin
(G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years,
all the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.
>
> Robert Federhofer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder@yahoo.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
> I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much
cheaper? Just a thought. John Robinson
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
<dralle@matronics.com>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the
lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought,
I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the
King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two
$4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
> -
> S -
> -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and
received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor.
I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts
are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the
Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts.
So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize
to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really
shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this
debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327
is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on
the RV-6.
>
>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following:
Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge
will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Matt,
I read your frustration. . .
My contacts in the past with Garmin directly couldn't have gone better.
Suggestion. . Call and ask for the tech support debt./guru for the product
that are using. Don't bother with Parts nor Customer service.
Nicely vent, on what your experience has been and the frustration it makes
for a customer and venting of course is not good for Garmin. I strongly
suspect that the person you are talking to will send you the parts at n/c
especially if he believes that you will know how to make the parts swap.
Keep us tuned in on the results.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:38 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
> <dralle@matronics.com>
>
> Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics
> shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a
> single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told
> that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same
> avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are
> not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite
> lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my
> frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this
> difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it
> hopefully progresses.
>
> Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for
> the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
>
> Matt
>
>
> At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens
>>of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought,
>>I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the
>>King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>>
>>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
>>the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
>>only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
>>the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace
>>two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal
>>behavior.
>>
>>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
>>with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>>
>>-
>>Matt Dralle
>>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Is it feasible to repair the plastic lens? I had a bad scratch on my canopy and
used an acrylic scratch removal kit that contains 3 steps of abrasive. Now
no one can tell that the canopy was ever scratched.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443707#443707
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I have also heard that certain brands of toothpaste are a good scratch
remover. All of them take a lot of wrist grease. . .
Dave
____________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:10 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
> Is it feasible to repair the plastic lens? I had a bad scratch on my
> canopy and used an acrylic scratch removal kit that contains 3 steps of
> abrasive. Now no one can tell that the canopy was ever scratched.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443707#443707
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Additional possibilities-- find a bad unit and cannibalize it.
If not in a certified aircraft, make your own lens out of plexi ---- or
live with the scratch
Rich
In a message dated 6/17/2015 6:12:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
fransew@gmail.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Is it feasible to repair the plastic lens? I had a bad scratch on my
canopy and used an acrylic scratch removal kit that contains 3 steps of
abrasive. Now no one can tell that the canopy was ever scratched.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443707#443707
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Matti am not familiar with the avionics shop you mentioned. I do know that
Garmin will only sell parts to Garmin Authorized Installers. There are a
bunch of shops that are FAA approved and yet they can not buy Garmin parts
or do mandatory upgrades. In the future the first question to ask any av
shop is if they are Garmin and FAA authorized installers. If yes they will
never have a problem buying any Garmin part.
I went round and round with three shops when my G480 needed a mandatory
firmware upgrade. All three shops sell Garmin but they are not Garmin
authorized installers. Garmin would not send them the firmware. They td me
that same story about the factory does that work. I called Garmin and was
given a list of installers that could/would do the work.
There are many bogus avionics dealers out there selling Garmin devices. The
problem is they can't buy parts to repair them.
On Jun 17, 2015 3:48 PM, "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net> wrote:
> skywagon@charter.net>
>
> Matt,
>
> I read your frustration. . .
> My contacts in the past with Garmin directly couldn't have gone better.
> Suggestion. . Call and ask for the tech support debt./guru for the product
> that are using. Don't bother with Parts nor Customer service.
> Nicely vent, on what your experience has been and the frustration it makes
> for a customer and venting of course is not good for Garmin. I strongly
> suspect that the person you are talking to will send you the parts at n/c
> especially if he believes that you will know how to make the parts swap.
> Keep us tuned in on the results.
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:38 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
>
>> dralle@matronics.com>
>>
>> Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics
>> shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a
>> single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told
>> that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same
>> avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are
>> not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite
>> lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my
>> frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult.
>> I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully
>> progresses.
>>
>> Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for
>> the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>
>>> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the
>>> lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought,
>>> I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the
>>> King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>>>
>>> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
>>> the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
>>> only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
>>> the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two
>>> $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>>>
>>> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
>>> with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>>>
>>> -
>>> Matt Dralle
>>>
>>>
>> -
>> Matt Dralle
>>
>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>>
>> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>>
>> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I'll second David Lloyd's experience with Garmin. I had 2 or 3 similar cases in
the past needing - and not finding - a Garmin part. Parts and Cust. support could
talk but not help; however when I talked to tech support to people who sounded
knowledgeable and after I succeeded in coming across like being able to
install the part myself, they sent it at n/c. Even sent me an email later asking
how it was working.
Rumen
---- David Lloyd <skywagon@charter.net> wrote:
============
Matt,
I read your frustration. . .
My contacts in the past with Garmin directly couldn't have gone better.
Suggestion. . Call and ask for the tech support debt./guru for the product
that are using. Don't bother with Parts nor Customer service.
Nicely vent, on what your experience has been and the frustration it makes
for a customer and venting of course is not good for Garmin. I strongly
suspect that the person you are talking to will send you the parts at n/c
especially if he believes that you will know how to make the parts swap.
Keep us tuned in on the results.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:38 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
> <dralle@matronics.com>
>
> Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics
> shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a
> single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told
> that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same
> avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are
> not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite
> lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my
> frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this
> difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it
> hopefully progresses.
>
> Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for
> the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
>
> Matt
>
>
> At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens
>>of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought,
>>I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the
>>King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>>
>>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
>>the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
>>only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
>>the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace
>>two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal
>>behavior.
>>
>>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
>>with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>>
>>-
>>Matt Dralle
>>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I have been =9Ccollecting=9D what appears to be serviceable
units for several years and have a couple of boxes of stuff, all that
look good, including 4 or 5 gyros. Initially, glass may be lower cost,
but the software fees and subscription costs quickly add up.
Marv
> On Jun 17, 2015, at 4:33 PM, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
>
> Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).
>
> I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping
an airplane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!
>
> It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable
gyroscopes, let alone brand new ones.
>
> Low cost means using glass.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
> In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
handainc@madisoncounty.net writes:
<handainc@madisoncounty.net>
>
> Good analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with
> ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam
gauges,
> as my instrument flying days are over. When I get to my "keeper"
> project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs
affordable
> programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for now, steam
> gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.
>
> M. Haught
>
> On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94@mchsi.com wrote:
> >
> > My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with
policy of Garmin. bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with
GTN750. Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per
year. The GPS from Jeppensen is another $500/yr.
> > Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for
IFR recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude. The GSU73
(computer brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction
with flat rate repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to
make harness and use laptop to correct.
> >
> > GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair
problem than my vacuum instruments. Repair is simplified, once the
business model progresses, there is no further need for avionic shops.
Plug and play ala Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and
service at central location means any FBO becomes an avionics shop.
Every 2 years remove just the computer send in for test and
certification at same cost that avionics shop would be paid. MY
equipment was seviced within 7 days. Local FBO only needs to do test
for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall.
> >
> > BAD--you are at their mercy for software. Software upgrade for G3X
should probably be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet
versions.
> > They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring
purchase of new hardware. This improves their bottom line when they are
so inclined.
> > Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to
compete. Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen
(who require recurrent training and have varying degree of competency).
> >
> > Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years
from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and
the technology changes so radically that what you buy today is
obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time. Some companies in this
area last only a few short years.
> > MGL is great but will they be around ? Dynon has good software
prices but then you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500
dollars. In short they all have an angle but the cost will be the same.
Look at the marketing angle of smart phones. Better yet look at Bede
aviation using iPads for instrument panel. What you have in your
cockpit today at $5k from Garmin (G3X) could be replaced with one $800
dollar tablet in a few short years, all the while the FAA piddles along
with NextGen.
> >
> > Robert Federhofer
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder@yahoo.com>
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
> >
> > I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part
much cheaper? Just a thought. John Robinson
> > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
> >
<dralle@matronics.com>
> >
> > In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in
the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I
thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I
did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
> >
> > I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was
told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that
right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory
repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070
to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly,
criminal behavior.
> >
> > I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do
business with a company that treats their customers this way.
Unacceptable.
> >
> > -
> > Matt Dralle
> >
> > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> > Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
> >
> > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> > Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
> >
> > Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> > Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the
Livermore
> > Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives
too!
> > For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
> >
> >
> > -
> > S -
> > -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
========================
Use utilities Day ===================
==== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=======================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
>
>
>
>
>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Matt, is it possible to buff out the scratches? Lots of car head lamp
covers and aircraft covers can be restored.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
> >
>
> Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics
> shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a
> single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told
> that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same
> avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are
> not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite
> lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my
> frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult.
> I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully
> progresses.
>
> Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for
> the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
>
> Matt
>
>
> At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
> >In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the
> lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought,
> I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the
> King KX-125 on the RV-6.
> >
> >I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
> the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
> only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
> the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two
> $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
> >
> >I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
> with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
> >
> >-
> >Matt Dralle
> >
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Nice thing about Dynon skyview After purchase all future software is free. T
here is a one time 500$ fee for some mapping stuff. If you want it (I think t
here is a 90 day free trial.
Maps/charts/plates vfr/ifr kept current are about 100$ per year......quite a
de
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 17, 2015, at 8:17 PM, "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc@madisoncounty.ne
t> wrote:
>
> I have been =9Ccollecting=9D what appears to be serviceable un
its for several years and have a couple of boxes of stuff, all that look goo
d, including 4 or 5 gyros. Initially, glass may be lower cost, but the soft
ware fees and subscription costs quickly add up.
>
> Marv
>
>
>> On Jun 17, 2015, at 4:33 PM, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).
>>
>> I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping an a
irplane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!
>>
>> It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable gyroscopes, l
et alone brand new ones.
>>
>> Low cost means using glass.
>>
>> Happy Skies,
>>
>> Old Bob
>>
>> In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time, handainc
@madisoncounty.net writes:
c@madisoncounty.net>
>>
>> Good analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with
>> ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam gauges,
>> as my instrument flying days are over. When I get to my "keeper"
>> project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs affordable
>> programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for now, steam
>> gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.
>>
>> M. Haught
>>
>> On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94@mchsi.com wrote:
>> >
>> > My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy o
f Garmin. bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750. Softwa
re for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year. The GPS fro
m Jeppensen is another $500/yr.
>> > Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR
recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude. The GSU73 (computer bra
in)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat rate r
epair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and use la
ptop to correct.
>> >
>> > GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair pr
oblem than my vacuum instruments. Repair is simplified, once the business m
odel progresses, there is no further need for avionic shops. Plug and play a
la Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central locati
on means any FBO becomes an avionics shop. Every 2 years remove just the c
omputer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics shop w
ould be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days. Local FBO only needs t
o do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall.
>> >
>> > BAD--you are at their mercy for software. Software upgrade for G3X sho
uld probably be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet version
s.
>> > They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring pu
rchase of new hardware. This improves their bottom line when they are so in
clined.
>> > Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to compe
te. Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (who requir
e recurrent training and have varying degree of competency).
>> >
>> > Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years fr
om now I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and the tec
hnology changes so radically that what you buy today is obsolete/unsupported
in a short space of time. Some companies in this area last only a few shor
t years.
>> > MGL is great but will they be around ? Dynon has good software prices b
ut then you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars. In short
they all have an angle but the cost will be the same. Look at the marketin
g angle of smart phones. Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for i
nstrument panel. What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin (G3
X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all t
he while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.
>> >
>> > Robert Federhofer
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder@yahoo.com>
>> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16 PM
>> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>> >
>> > I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much c
heaper? Just a thought. John Robinson
>> > From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
>> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>> >
com>
>> >
>> > In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the l
ens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I
'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the Ki
ng KX-125 on the RV-6.
>> >
>> > I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was tol
d the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and th
e MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4
pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>> >
>> > I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do busines
s with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>> >
>> > -
>> > Matt Dralle
>> >
>> > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
>> > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
>> > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
>> > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>> > Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>> >
>> > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
>> > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>> > Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>> >
>> > Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>> > Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>> > Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>> > For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > S -
>> > -
>> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus =====
=================== Use utilities Day =
======================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =================
====== - List Contribution Web Site sp;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" class="">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> class="">http://forums.matronics.com
>> class="">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
I kind of doubt it. I use the term "scratch" loosely. It looks more like the
surface coating is flaking off. About 1/4 to 1/3 of the lens is discolored in
a flaking pattern. So, really, while I accepted responsibility for the "scratch",
I really think that it is a manufacturing defect. Very frustrating, considering
the radio is essentially new but I bought it 5 years ago. Garmin is
now claiming that part isn't even available internally or externally for sale
except for new manufacture. In other words, it couldn't be replaced even it the
unit were returned for repair. But, again, the story seems to change by the
hour...
Matt
At 06:30 PM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, you wrote:
>Matt, is it possible to buff out the scratches? Lots of car head lamp covers
and aircraft covers can be restored.
>
>Rick
>#40956
>Southampton, Ont
>
>On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Matt Dralle <<mailto:dralle@matronics.com>dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
>Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and
received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor.
I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts
are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call
the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those
parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize
to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really
shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this
debacle as it hopefully progresses.
>
>Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327
is 470-00034-00.
>
>Matt
>
>
>At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of
both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just
order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125
on the RV-6.
>>
>>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the
following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option
is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM
charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic!
That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>>
>>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with
a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>>
>>-
>>Matt Dralle
>>
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
>
>RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
><http://www.mattsrv8.com>http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
><http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap>http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
><http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8>http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
>RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
><http://www.mattsrv6.com>http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
>Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
>Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
>Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
>Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
>For entertainment purposes only. <http://klvk.matronics.com>http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>==========
>-
>Electric-List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>==========
>FORUMS -
>_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com
>==========
>b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>==========
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Good Evening Marv,
Cost can be high for glass if you opt for the fancy data, but if all you
want is attitude and heading, the stuff is cheaper than gyros and gimbals.
As Always, It All Depends!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 6/17/2015 8:20:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
handainc@madisoncounty.net writes:
I have been =9Ccollecting=9D what appears to be serviceable un
its for several
years and have a couple of boxes of stuff, all that look good, including
4
or 5 gyros. Initially, glass may be lower cost, but the software fees an
d
subscription costs quickly add up.
Marv
On Jun 17, 2015, at 4:33 PM, _BobsV35B@aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com)
wrote:
Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).
I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping an
airplane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!
It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable gyroscopes,
let alone brand new ones.
Low cost means using glass.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
_handainc@madisoncounty.net_ (mailto:handainc@madisoncounty.net) writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "H. Marvin Haught Jr. "
<_handainc@madisoncounty.net_ (mailto:handainc@madisoncounty.net) >
Good analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with
ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam gauges,
as my instrument flying days are over. When I get to my "keeper"
project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs affordable
programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for now, steam
gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.
M. Haught
On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, _fedico94@mchsi.com_ (mailto:fedico94@mchsi.com)
wrote:
(mailto:fedico94@mchsi.com)
>
> My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy
of
Garmin. bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750.
Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year. Th
e GPS
from Jeppensen is another $500/yr.
> Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR
recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude. The GSU73 (computer
brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat
rate
repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and us
e
laptop to correct.
>
> GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair
problem than my vacuum instruments. Repair is simplified, once the busin
ess
model progresses, there is no further need for avionic shops. Plug and
play ala Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at centr
al
location means any FBO becomes an avionics shop. Every 2 years remove
just
the computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionic
s
shop would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days. Local FBO on
ly
needs to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with reinstal
l.
>
> BAD--you are at their mercy for software. Software upgrade for G3X
should probably be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet
versions.
> They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring
purchase of new hardware. This improves their bottom line when they are
so
inclined.
> Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to
compete. Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (wh
o
require recurrent training and have varying degree of competency).
>
> Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years
from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and th
e
technology changes so radically that what you buy today is
obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time. Some companies in this ar
ea last only a few
short years.
> MGL is great but will they be around ? Dynon has good software prices
but then you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars. In
short they all have an angle but the cost will be the same. Look at the
marketing angle of smart phones. Better yet look at Bede aviation using
iPads
for instrument panel. What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Ga
rmin
(G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years,
all the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.
>
> Robert Federhofer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rv7a.builder" <_rv7a.builder@yahoo.com_
(mailto:rv7a.builder@yahoo.com) >
> To: _aeroelectric-list@matronics.com_
(mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com)
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
> I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much
cheaper? Just a thought. John Robinson
> From: Matt Dralle <_dralle@matronics.com_
(mailto:dralle@matronics.com) >
> To: _aeroelectric-list@matronics.com_
(mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com)
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
<_dralle@matronics.com_ (mailto:dralle@matronics.com) >
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the
lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I though
t,
I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the
King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was tol
d
the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right.
My
only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and
the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace
two
$4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavi
or.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do busines
s
with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> _http://www.mattsrv8.com_ (http://www.mattsrv8.com/) - Matt's Complete
RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> _http://www.mattsrv6.com_ (http://www.mattsrv6.com/) - Matt's RV-6
Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. _http://klvk.matronics.com_
(http://klvk.matronics.com/)
>
>
> -
> S -
> -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
Yes, Dynon charges a one time $500 for the moving map software. The free t
rial period is 30 hrs, iirc.
So far all upgrades to the Dynon Skyview have been free including map secti
onal type updates.
FWIW.
Chris
Houston
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 17, 2015, at 8:52 PM, A R Goldman <argoldman@aol.com<mailto:argoldma
n@aol.com>> wrote:
Nice thing about Dynon skyview After purchase all future software is free.
There is a one time 500$ fee for some mapping stuff. If you want it (I thin
k there is a 90 day free trial.
Maps/charts/plates vfr/ifr kept current are about 100$ per year......quite
a de
Rich
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 17, 2015, at 8:17 PM, "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc@madisoncounty.net
<mailto:handainc@madisoncounty.net>> wrote:
I have been =93collecting=94 what appears to be serviceable units for sever
al years and have a couple of boxes of stuff, all that look good, including
4 or 5 gyros. Initially, glass may be lower cost, but the software fees a
nd subscription costs quickly add up.
Marv
On Jun 17, 2015, at 4:33 PM, BobsV35B@aol.com<mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com> wrot
e:
Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).
I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping an air
plane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!
It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable gyroscopes, le
t alone brand new ones.
Low cost means using glass.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time, handainc@m
adisoncounty.net<mailto:handainc@madisoncounty.net> writes:
madisoncounty.net<mailto:handainc@madisoncounty.net>>
Good analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with
ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam gauges,
as my instrument flying days are over. When I get to my "keeper"
project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs affordable
programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for now, steam
gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.
M. Haught
On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94@mchsi.com<mailto:fedico94@mchsi.com> wrote:
94@mchsi.com>
>
> My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy of
Garmin. bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750. Softwar
e for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year. The GPS fro
m Jeppensen is another $500/yr.
> Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR r
ecertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude. The GSU73 (computer brai
n)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat rate r
epair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and use l
aptop to correct.
>
> GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair prob
lem than my vacuum instruments. Repair is simplified, once the business mo
del progresses, there is no further need for avionic shops. Plug and play
ala Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central loca
tion means any FBO becomes an avionics shop. Every 2 years remove just th
e computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics sh
op would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days. Local FBO only n
eeds to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall.
>
> BAD--you are at their mercy for software. Software upgrade for G3X shoul
d probably be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet versions
.
> They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purc
hase of new hardware. This improves their bottom line when they are so inc
lined.
> Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to compete
. Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (who require
recurrent training and have varying degree of competency).
>
> Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from
now I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and the tech
nology changes so radically that what you buy today is obsolete/unsupported
in a short space of time. Some companies in this area last only a few sho
rt years.
> MGL is great but will they be around ? Dynon has good software prices bu
t then you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars. In short
they all have an angle but the cost will be the same. Look at the marketi
ng angle of smart phones. Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for
instrument panel. What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin
(G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, a
ll the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.
>
> Robert Federhofer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder@yahoo.com<mailto:rv7a.builder@yahoo.co
m>>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com<mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.co
m>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
> I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much che
aper? Just a thought. John Robinson
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com<mailto:dralle@matronics.c
om>>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com<mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.
com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
>
m<mailto:dralle@matronics.com>>
>
> In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the len
s of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'
ll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the Ki
ng KX-125 on the RV-6.
>
> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told
the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My
only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and th
e MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $
4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business
with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
> -
> S -
> -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
---
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