---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/21/15: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:28 AM - Re: basic questions on terminal strips (Bill Bradburry) 2. 08:26 AM - Re: basic questions on terminal strips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 08:27 AM - Re: basic questions on terminal strips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 09:02 AM - Re: basic questions on terminal strips (Ken Ryan) 5. 09:30 AM - Re: basic questions on terminal strips (John Morgensen) 6. 09:52 AM - Re: basic questions on terminal strips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 09:58 AM - Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (mmoyle) 8. 10:07 AM - Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (mmoyle) 9. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 12:26 PM - Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (mmoyle) 12. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (H. Marvin Haught) 13. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (H. Marvin Haught) 14. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: USB Charger (John Morgensen) 15. 01:51 PM - Re: USB Charger (JCurtis) 16. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: USB Charger (John Tipton) 17. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: USB Charger (Bill Bradburry) 18. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: USB Charger (C&K) 19. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 06:12 PM - Re: basic questions on terminal strips (user9253) 21. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: basic questions on terminal strips (Ken Ryan) 22. 06:28 PM - Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (user9253) 23. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 24. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (H. Marvin Haught) 25. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (H. Marvin Haught Jr.) 26. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 27. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 28. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (H. Marvin Haught Jr) 29. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (H. Marvin Haught Jr) 30. 09:22 PM - Re: Re: Fw: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress (H. Marvin Haught Jr) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:42 AM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips Does anyone know what happens here? I too often get emails from a friend like this where there is nothing in the body of the email. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 7:29 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:19 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips At 12:20 PM 6/20/2015, you wrote: >Thanks Bob. I think I have what I need in the shop to do it about >three different ways, and if not it should be easy to find right >here in Anchorage. Take pictures . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips At 02:32 PM 6/20/2015, you wrote: >UHMW + standard AN3 hardware seems to have worked pretty well. Pics attached. Thanks! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:28 AM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips Pic showing temp/partial installation: On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 7:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 12:20 PM 6/20/2015, you wrote: > > Thanks Bob. I think I have what I need in the shop to do it about three > different ways, and if not it should be easy to find right here in > Anchorage. > > > Take pictures . . . > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:45 AM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips Me too! However, you can "view source" and see the message. john On 6/21/2015 7:26 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > > Does anyone know what happens here? I too often get emails from a friend > like this where there is nothing in the body of the email. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie > England > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 7:29 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:05 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: basic questions on terminal strips At 11:00 AM 6/21/2015, you wrote: >Pic showing temp/partial installation: You done good my friend . . . just remember that as you add wires to any post, there should be no intervening hardware between terminals . . . i.e. the terminal strip hardware is there to separate, support and put the super-mash on the stack of terminals . . . no hardware should be tasked with carrying electrons. In your particular case, the currents are low; failure to observe that process goal is not fraught with risk. I'll use your photos to do a comic-book for aeroelectric.com wherein we'll mention the time-honored recipes for success to manage wires from 22AWG through 000. Thanks for sharing. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "mmoyle" Progress as of yesterday. Remaining before installing the panel are the jacks for the PM3000, 2ea 1 amp shunt breakers, connecting the power supply to the Trig radio and PM3000 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443859#443859 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_438.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_347.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:13 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "mmoyle" Battery mount. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443860#443860 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_873.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_825.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_807.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_548.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress At 11:57 AM 6/21/2015, you wrote: > >Progress as of yesterday. Remaining before installing the panel are >the jacks for the PM3000, 2ea 1 amp shunt breakers, connecting the >power supply to the Trig radio and PM3000 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443859#443859 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_438.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_347.jpg Hmmmm . . . looks like your project has already passed many opportunities for considered decisions. When you published your diagram, I mistakenly assumed you were in the planning stages . . . Getting back to your original diagram, what questions are as yet unresolved? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:27 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress At 12:05 PM 6/21/2015, you wrote: > >Battery mount. > What are the functions of the two contactors? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:12 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "mmoyle" Bob, I was at the wiring the panel planning stage four days ago. Still pondering the mag ground at the ignition switch for the P-leads. The schematic shows grounding it to the airframe. The shortwing guys are talking about grounding per schematic, others not. I'm extending a few of the head set jack. The PM300 calls for shielded wires. Do I need to add shielding at the splice? Something like metal foil then shrink tube? The two solenoids are Lamar. One continuous duty. Is closed at the panel's master switch by completing the ground. The other is intermittent duty and is for the starter. Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443867#443867 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:19 PM PST US From: "H. Marvin Haught" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress Bob - Mark=99s system is well beyond =9Copportunities for consideration=9D but I am following his path on my PA22-20 project, so want to learn from what Mark has done, and get your input on designing a system for my project. Hence, I asked him to post what he has done. =46rom his postings, and the responses from you and the group, I hope to learn what to do differently, as well as what to copy. For example: I have the same contactors for my project, (one for starter that is not continuous, and one form Battery that IS continuous)) coupled with a Bendix ignition switch with a =9CStart =9D position to do away with the box / push button system that was originally under the pilot=99s seat. Mark used a Master Switch for his system - I understand that you do not recommend a Master Switch because it is a single point of failure for the electrical system. In that case, how would the system be configured to do away with a Master Switch? Would the entire electrical system be activated from the ignition switch going to a L/R or Both Mag position? I am hoping this will generate a very productive discussion that results in an electrical system design that I can get =9Capproved=9D for my project with a minimum of problems with the FAA, and yet, have an up to date system with modern components. M. Haught > On Jun 21, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > At 11:57 AM 6/21/2015, you wrote: >> >> Progress as of yesterday. Remaining before installing the panel are the jacks for the PM3000, 2ea 1 amp shunt breakers, connecting the power supply to the Trig radio and PM3000 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443859#443859 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_438.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_347.jpg > > Hmmmm . . . looks like your project has already > passed many opportunities for considered decisions. > When you published your diagram, I mistakenly > assumed you were in the planning stages . . . > > Getting back to your original diagram, what > questions are as yet unresolved? > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "H. Marvin Haught" Four days ago, when we started this process, we were hoping for substantial feedback then, and the whole discussion stalled. Mark proceeded forward as best he knew how, as he is trying to move his project forward as efficiently as possible. I am still hoping to glean some dos and donts from his experience. M. Haught > On Jun 21, 2015, at 2:25 PM, mmoyle wrote: > > > Bob, > I was at the wiring the panel planning stage four days ago. Still pondering the mag ground at the ignition switch for the P-leads. The schematic shows grounding it to the airframe. The shortwing guys are talking about grounding per schematic, others not. I'm extending a few of the head set jack. The PM300 calls for shielded wires. Do I need to add shielding at the splice? Something like metal foil then shrink tube? > > The two solenoids are Lamar. One continuous duty. Is closed at the panel's master switch by completing the ground. The other is intermittent duty and is for the starter. > Mark > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443867#443867 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:54 PM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Charger Wow! The "designer and maker" of the product makes himself available to the list and the subject goes dead. Did I miss something? john On 6/18/2015 9:56 AM, JCurtis wrote: > > Hi, > > I am the designer and maker of the Charge2 and Charge4 USB chargers mentioned in this tread. A customer let me know about the forum and suggested I register, so I have. > > If anyone has questions over the units, please get in touch, I will answer the best I can. > > -------- > Designer and maker of Charge2 & Charge4 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443757#443757 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:26 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Charger From: "JCurtis" JohnInReno wrote: > Wow! The "designer and maker" of the product makes himself available to the list and the subject goes dead. Did I miss something? > > john Well, I do try and put information up on the website, but still happy to answer questions via the forum or via e-mail (address on the website). Jeremy. -------- Designer and maker of Charge2 & Charge4 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443871#443871 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Charger From: John Tipton I think it's indicative of this list that there is a lot of fancy talk, people go on about design criteria, a lot of theorising etc etc, then someone comes along with positive advice from a professional - which puts everyone out on a limb because they know nothing John Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x---- > On 21 Jun 2015, at 09:18 pm, John Morgensen wrote: > > > Wow! The "designer and maker" of the product makes himself available to the list and the subject goes dead. Did I miss something? > > john > >> On 6/18/2015 9:56 AM, JCurtis wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I am the designer and maker of the Charge2 and Charge4 USB chargers mentioned in this tread. A customer let me know about the forum and suggested I register, so I have. >> >> If anyone has questions over the units, please get in touch, I will answer the best I can. >> >> -------- >> Designer and maker of Charge2 & Charge4 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443757#443757 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:50 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Charger Gee Whiz, John! I have a bad day from time to time as well, and it sometimes results in a post I wish I had kept to myself. Don't worry about it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Tipton Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 4:03 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Charger I think it's indicative of this list that there is a lot of fancy talk, people go on about design criteria, a lot of theorising etc etc, then someone comes along with positive advice from a professional - which puts everyone out on a limb because they know nothing John Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x---- > On 21 Jun 2015, at 09:18 pm, John Morgensen wrote: > > > Wow! The "designer and maker" of the product makes himself available to the list and the subject goes dead. Did I miss something? > > john > >> On 6/18/2015 9:56 AM, JCurtis wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I am the designer and maker of the Charge2 and Charge4 USB chargers mentioned in this tread. A customer let me know about the forum and suggested I register, so I have. >> >> If anyone has questions over the units, please get in touch, I will answer the best I can. >> >> -------- >> Designer and maker of Charge2 & Charge4 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443757#443757 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:21 PM PST US From: C&K Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: USB Charger That is a very different impression than mine from being on this list for many years. Some of us use the shared knowledge and ideas here, make our own hardware, learn something in the process, and share the result freely when it seems appropriate... I never know whose comment might spark a useful thought or lead to a solution! Ken do not archive On 21/06/2015 5:03 PM, John Tipton wrote: > > I think it's indicative of this list that there is a lot of fancy talk, people go on about design criteria, a lot of theorising etc etc, then someone comes along with positive advice from a professional - which puts everyone out on a limb because they know nothing > > John > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress At 02:25 PM 6/21/2015, you wrote: > >Bob, >I was at the wiring the panel planning stage four days ago. Still >pondering the mag ground at the ignition switch for the >P-leads. The schematic shows grounding it to the airframe. The >shortwing guys are talking about grounding per schematic, others not. As you wish . . . but if your not into flipping a coin, know that grounding p-leads at both ends creates potential ground loops for both cranking currents to flow in the shields. > I'm extending a few of the head set jack. The PM300 calls for > shielded wires. Do I need to add shielding at the splice? > Something like metal foil then shrink tube? > >The two solenoids are Lamar. One continuous duty. Is closed at the >panel's master switch by completing the ground. The other is >intermittent duty and is for the starter. Those particular starter contactors have poor track records. They feature low pressure mating surfaces . . . they're a slightly modified version of the continuous duty contactor . . . we tried them at Cessna in the 60's . . . pain in the arse . . . Starter contactor right next to the battery contactor? Forgive me, I thought we were at the planning stages. The drawing you offered was not a wiring diagram but a rough architecture . . . not unlike the Z-figures in the book. Building a wiring diagram around an architecture drawing takes some time, conversation and thought. The wire book with understanding gleaned from a team of guys who have been there done that goes a long way toward putting grins on your flying-fuzz when they sign off on your rebuild. You were already at the top of the ski jump . . . a bit late to be getting input from the coaches. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:09 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: basic questions on terminal strips From: "user9253" I do not see a nut under the ring terminals. Is there one? Ring terminals need to be squashed between two nuts, not between a nut and plastic because plastic will flow over time, causing the connection to loosen. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443879#443879 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:31 PM PST US From: Ken Ryan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: basic questions on terminal strips There's a washer under the terminals. On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 5:10 PM, user9253 wrote: > > I do not see a nut under the ring terminals. Is there one? Ring terminals need to be squashed between two nuts, not between a nut and plastic because plastic will flow over time, causing the connection to loosen. > Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443879#443879 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:37 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "user9253" > I understand that you do not recommend a Master Switch because it is a single point of failure for the electrical system. In that case, how would the system be configured to do away with a Master Switch? I have never heard anyone recommend not having a master switch. There needs to be some way to shut off power. Many have recommended not having an avionics switch, which is an unnecessary single point of failure. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443881#443881 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress > I'm extending a few of the head set jack. The PM300 calls for > shielded wires. Do I need to add shielding at the splice? > Something like metal foil then shrink tube? No . . . in fact, shielding of headset and microphone wires is of little if any demonstrable benefit. Shielding breaks certain form of noise propagation that doesn't exist behind modern panels . . . and few legacy panels. You could wire headsets with bare, twisted pair and microphonee with twisted trios (assuming a PTT wire) and save yourself a lot of fuss with shielding. But if you choose to extend already sheiled wires, a simple splice between signal and shield conductors is fine. You don't need to add a shielding 'cocoon'. We often take shielded wires through connectors with separate pins carrying the shield(s) . . . with perhaps as much as 3" of the vulnerable wire running 'unshielded' through the connector . . . not a problem. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "H. Marvin Haught" Okay.now I understand. Was not comprehending how you could NOT have a Master Switch. So without an avionics, switch, you have to individually switch on or off all electronics once the master switch is turned on. M. Haught > On Jun 21, 2015, at 8:27 PM, user9253 wrote: > > > >> I understand that you do not recommend a Master Switch because it is a single point of failure for the electrical system. In that case, how would the system be configured to do away with a Master Switch? > > I have never heard anyone recommend not having a master switch. There needs to be some way to shut off power. > Many have recommended not having an avionics switch, which is an unnecessary single point of failure. > Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443881#443881 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:36 PM PST US From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr. " Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress On 6/21/2015 8:00 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > Starter contactor right next to the battery contactor? > > Forgive me, I thought we were at the planning stages. > The drawing you offered was not a wiring diagram but > a rough architecture . . . not unlike the Z-figures > in the book. Building a wiring diagram around an > architecture drawing takes some time, conversation > and thought. The wire book with understanding gleaned > from a team of guys who have been there done that goes > a long way toward putting grins on your flying-fuzz when > they sign off on your rebuild. You were already at the > top of the ski jump . . . a bit late to be getting input > from the coaches. > > Bob . . . > As I said in my follow on post after Mark, I AM trying to do my planning. I am new at this and don't have Mark's experience with other machinery, so I need all the help I can get. I have a set of the same contactors, and was planning on installing them as Mark has. What is the problem with the starter contactor right next to the battery contactor? Other than a vague idea of what I want on the panel, I have not a clue as to how to get to the point of "putting grins on the flying-fuzz when they sign off on my rebuild"? But that is my purpose. So....how do we arrive at the wire book? What do I need to do to bring this process along get the "coaches" engaged? M. Haught > * > > > * --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress At 02:38 PM 6/21/2015, you wrote: >Bob - > >Mark=99s system is well beyond =9Copportunities >for consideration=9D =85=85but I am following his >path th on my PA22-20 project, so want to learn >from what Mark has done, and get your input on >designing a system for my project. Hence, I >asked him to post what he has done. From his >postings, and the responses from you and the >group, I hope to learn what to do differently, as well as what to copy. Okay, the skeleton wire-book I published for Mark is the baseline document for doing the best we know how to do for your project. > > >For example: I have the same contactors for my >project, (one for starter that is not >continuous, and one form Battery that IS >continuous)) coupled with a Bendix ignition >switch with a =9CStart=9D position to do away >with the box / push button system that was originally under the pilot =99s seat. >Mark used a Master Switch for his syster - I >understand that you do not recommend a Master >Switch because it is a single point of failure >for the electrical system. In that case, how >would the system be configured to do away with a >Master Switch? Would the entire electrical >system be activated from the ignition switch >going to a L/R or Both Mag position? I am >hoping this will generate a very productive >discussion that results in an electrical system >design that I can get =9Capproved=9D for my >project with a minimum of problems with the FAA, >and yet, have an up to date system with modern components. Understand. But the 'master switch' discussion was NOT about the DC Power Master switch, clearly shown in the baseline wirebook. What you don't find is an avionics master switch . . . which was birthed from poor understanding of the physics. All those NAVCOM 300's we killed at Cessna were NOT spike-bit by starters . . . starters do not generate spikes of radio killing proportions . . . and RTCA knows it. In fact, the legacy 'spike test' conducted under DO-160 contains very little energy . . . about the equivalent of a gnat sneeze compared to say, alternator runaways . . . The radios were being killed by soggy batteries allowing engine cranking to drag the bus down to 6-7 volts combined with transistors of the era being exceedingly vulnerable to a phenomenon called 'second breakdown'. Conditions imposed on our NC300's prompted the unhappy event on dozens of radios on delivery aircraft. The AV Master switch was a knee-jerk band-aid . . . the value of which disappeared a few years after we started putting them in airplanes. See http://tinyurl.com/q5uzw78 If you find an 'avionics master' mentioned in ANY installation manual for avionics, I'd like to know who published it. For the past 40 years, EVERY company I've contacted about that feature had to confess, "We don't think it's needed either . . . it's just that everybody has been doing it for decades . . ." ANY piece of hardware qualified to DO-160 can easily stand off the ravages of everything the aircraft bus can throw at it. Starter spikes don't exist . . . I've tracked the elusive starter-spike on everything from C150 to BeechJets . . . they are not there. Start with the draft wirebook. Craft your questions based on the existence or absence of some feature about which you need more understanding. As the educational process moves forward, we'll edit those drawings to match the best-we-know-how-to-do for your project. For Mark, we're limited to combing out a few big tangles . . . his system is pretty much cast in concrete. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:03 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress >For example: I have the same contactors for my project, (one for >starter that is not continuous, and one form Battery that IS continuous)) Okay, the contactor of choice for starter duty looks more like this . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/Starter_Contact These devices have been common to the automotive industry for decades and feature low area, high pressure contacts much more suited to withstanding starter inrush currents due to their higher closing pressures and low mass to minimize bounce. Location of choice is on the firewall where the BAT terminal of hte contactor becomes the distribution point for bringing battery+ wire to the bus. Although, mounting under the seat is only slightly inconvenient. But I DO recommend the alternative form factor . . . it's much better suited to task and will have diode suppression built in. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr" Great article, provides me with the first goals for my system, and a very go od understanding of the logic. I have already been studying the wire book p ages. Will print out each one and start making note and additions of my spe cific components, plus compare them to the original schematic. Question one is: you seemed skeptical about mounting the two contractors si de by side right at the battery as Mark did. Why is that not desirable and w hat are the problems? M. Haught Sent from my iPad > On Junhttps://www.flypadmount.com 21, 2015, at 9:23 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls , III wrote: > > > > > Okay, the skeleton wire-book I published for Mark > is the baseline document for doing the best we know > how to do for your project. >> > > See http://tinyurl.com/q5uzw78 > > > > Start with the draft wirebook. Craft your questions > based on the existence or absence of some feature > about which you need more understanding. As the > educational process moves forward, we'll edit > those drawings to match the best-we-know-how-to-do > for your project. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr" Sent from my iPad > On Jun 21, 2015, at 10:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> For example: I have the same contactors for my project, (one for start er that is not continuous, and one form Battery that IS continuous)) > > Okay, the contactor of choice for starter > duty looks more like this . . . > > > > These devices have been common to the automotive > industry for decades and feature low area, high > pressure contacts much more suited to withstanding > starter inrush currents due to their higher closing > pressures and low mass to minimize bounce. > > Location of choice is on the firewall where the > BAT terminal of hte contactor becomes the distribution > point for bringing battery+ wire to the bus. > > Although, mounting under the seat is only > slightly inconvenient. But I DO recommend > the alternative form factor . . . it's much > better suited to task and will have diode > suppression built in. > > > > Bob . . . > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: [Bearhawk] Pacer progress From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr" Okay.....found one the B&C site plus located your article on the use of diod es. The B & C has diode built in and is PMA. Grounds from mounting surface . Thanks! M. Haught Sent from my iPad > On Jun 21, 2015, at 10:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> For example: I have the same contactors for my project, (one for start er that is not continuous, and one form Battery that IS continuous)) > > Okay, the contactor of choice for starter > duty looks more like this . . . > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.