Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:43 AM - Re: RG400 Splice (Greenbacks, UnLtd.)
2. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: RG400 Splice (Bill Putney)
3. 02:12 PM - Contactor or master switch problem? (Sheldon Olesen)
4. 04:09 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Contactor_or_master_switch_problem=3F? ()
5. 04:32 PM - Re: Contactor or master switch problem? ()
6. 04:54 PM - Re: Contactor or master switch problem? (Charlie England)
7. 06:31 PM - Re: Contactor or master switch problem? (Richard Girard)
8. 08:15 PM - Re: Contactor or master switch problem? (user9253)
9. 09:08 PM - Re: Contactor or master switch problem? (Justin Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RG400 Splice |
I may have a need to lengthen two of the four antenna cables to my Ryan TCAD9900B
by approximately 6.
Short of fabricating an extension with connectors on each end, would it be preferable
to splice directly to the existing cables?
Thanks
N4ZQ
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RG400 Splice |
If you can't find 6" of slack to pull from somewhere in the airframe
you're stuck. You might be able to reroute the cables to get the extra 6".
Here's a whole lot of technical reasons why you should replace all your
cables (not splice them) if that's what you need to do;
1) According to the installation manual all four cables MUST be the same
length. Changing the length of just two of the cables is going to make
target bearing inaccurate. The TCAD uses signal arrival time (phase) to
determine the bearing to the target. changing a cables length will
change the length of time it takes a signal to get through that cable
retaliative to the time the same signal takes to get through the other
cables.
The cables need to have 3.0 dB of loss +/-0.5 dB. The TCAD uses relative
signal strength to determine the range to the target. Without using
connectors it is nearly impossible to keep a constant impedance. A
soldered splice just won't work well at these frequencies. In addition,
the reflections caused by the impedance mismatch is going to add
additional loss and may create ghost aircraft. I'm not sure about the
ghosts but seems like a possibility given what the TCAD is trying to do.
Splicing the additional cable will add 4 more connectors per cable. Good
quality connectors rated for operation at these frequencies that are
properly installed will add about 0.11 dB per connector for a total of
0.44 dB. Getting real close to the 0.5 dB tolerance you have in the spec
for the cables. Of course you don't know how much of that tolerance (or
in which direction, + or -) has been used by the original installer. The
installation manual doesn't talk about fabricating these cables but
rather lists prefabricated cable sets that are compatible. My guess that
they want the cables manufactured and tested as a set with a network
analyzer so that they know that the cables are of equal length
(electrical phase-wise) and equal loss at the 3 dB spec.
Piecing out the cable length with homemade extensions seems like a bad
idea to me. You're taking a very expensive piece of avionics and
sacrificing it's accuracy for the price of a new cable set.
Bill
On 8/2/15 06:42, Greenbacks, UnLtd. wrote:
>
> I may have a need to lengthen two of the four antenna cables to my Ryan TCAD9900B
by approximately 6.
> Short of fabricating an extension with connectors on each end, would it be preferable
to splice directly to the existing cables?
>
> Thanks
>
> N4ZQ
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Contactor or master switch problem? |
I have been having some starting and electrical issues which I think may involve
the master switch or the battery contactor.
My son and I were going out flying one day last week, had preflighted the plane,
and after we pulled the plane from the hanger we switched on the master switch.
The electronics came on briefly and then faded away. There was no power
for the starter. I thought that was odd because the plane normally has charger
attached while in the hanger. The Odyssey specific charger indicated the battery
was charged. After a quick trip home to find a volt meter we tested the
voltage which was 13+v. We had the charger on while we gone so the reading was
skewed because of that. We pulled the plane out and the electronics and starter
worked normally.
On Sat., I flew 8 trips of Young Eagles with no starting or electrical problems.
After the event was over, a trip to the fuel pump had the electronics working
but the starter contactor clicking but no prop rotation. I cycled the master
switch several times and finally the engine turned over like nothing was wrong.
I have a 1200 nm trip coming up soon so I need an answer so there are no
problems along the way.
The battery is a PC680 about 2 years old. The master switch (Carling) and battery
contactor (B&C) are about 7 years old and have around 630 hours. Apparently
the volts and amps are there but getting choked off before they can do their
work. Right now, my thought is to replace them both, but especially the master
switch, due to my impending trip. Any thoughts, better ideas or am I missing
something?
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Q?Re:_AeroElectric-List:_Contactor_or_master_switch_problem=3F? |
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Contactor or master switch problem? |
Hello Sheldon,
Before changing anything, I suggest you carry out a thorough check of the
connections to all of the relevant components, especially those of the
battery terminals, the starter and the ground returns. Look particularly at
the braided grounding strap between the engine and the battery negative.
Your time of 630 hours is not particularly high for the master switch and
battery contactor, but if the connections all check out then you could
change the component that is more difficult to access in the field and take
with you a spare for the other. This would give you a chance to find out
which is giving the trouble without having too much of a problem to fix on
your long trip.
Good luck!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sheldon
Olesen
Sent: 02 August 2015 22:10
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor or master switch problem?
--> <saolesen@sirentel.net>
I have been having some starting and electrical issues which I think may
involve the master switch or the battery contactor.
My son and I were going out flying one day last week, had preflighted the
plane, and after we pulled the plane from the hanger we switched on the
master switch. The electronics came on briefly and then faded away. There
was no power for the starter. I thought that was odd because the plane
normally has charger attached while in the hanger. The Odyssey specific
charger indicated the battery was charged. After a quick trip home to find
a volt meter we tested the voltage which was 13+v. We had the charger on
while we gone so the reading was skewed because of that. We pulled the
plane out and the electronics and starter worked normally.
On Sat., I flew 8 trips of Young Eagles with no starting or electrical
problems. After the event was over, a trip to the fuel pump had the
electronics working but the starter contactor clicking but no prop rotation.
I cycled the master switch several times and finally the engine turned over
like nothing was wrong. I have a 1200 nm trip coming up soon so I need an
answer so there are no problems along the way.
The battery is a PC680 about 2 years old. The master switch (Carling) and
battery contactor (B&C) are about 7 years old and have around 630 hours.
Apparently the volts and amps are there but getting choked off before they
can do their work. Right now, my thought is to replace them both, but
especially the master switch, due to my impending trip. Any thoughts,
better ideas or am I missing something?
Sheldon Olesen
Sent from my iPad
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor or master switch problem? |
On 8/2/2015 5:58 PM, rnjcurtis@charter.net wrote:
>
>
> **
>
> I have been having some starting and electrical issues which I think
> may involve the master switch or the battery contactor.
>
> My son and I were going out flying one day last week, had preflighted
> the plane, and after we pulled the plane from the hanger we switched
> on the master switch. The electronics came on briefly and then faded
> away. There was no power for the starter. I thought that was odd
> because the plane normally has charger attached while in the hanger.
> The Odyssey specific charger indicated the battery was charged. After
> a quick trip home to find a volt meter we tested the voltage which was
> 13+v. We had the charger on while we gone so the reading was skewed
> because of that. We pulled the plane out and the electronics and
> starter worked normally.
>
> On Sat., I flew 8 trips of Young Eagles with no starting or
> electrical problems. After the event was over, a trip to the fuel
> pump had the electronics working but the starter contactor clicking
> but no prop rotation. I cycled the master switch several times and
> finally the engine turned over like nothing was wrong. I have a 1200
> nm trip coming up soon so I need an answer so there are no problems
> along the way.
>
> The battery is a PC680 about 2 years old. The master switch (Carling)
> and battery contactor (B&C) are about 7 years old and have around 630
> hours. Apparently the volts and amps are there but getting choked off
> before they can do their work. Right now, my thought is to replace
> them both, but especially the master switch, due to my impending
> trip. Any thoughts, better ideas or am I missing something?
>
> I had a similar problem a couple of years back. I would have
> to turn the master on and off several times to get power to
> the starter and electronics. Once the power came up it would
> run flawlessly until the next time I tried to start it.
>
> The problem turned out to be a bad, internal
> contact corrosion, master solenoid. I replaced it and the
> problem went away completely. After I replaced it I sent the
> defective unit to Bob N and he dissected it, took pictures,
> and posted on this forum. It is likely that you have a
> similar problem.
>
> Roger
>
I'd probably vote with Roger. If you hear the master contactor 'clack'
with its normal sound every time you flip the master switch, then the
switch is almost certainly doing its job properly. The 'clack' means
that the master switch is sending activation current to the contactor,
and the solenoid in the contactor is moving the contacts together (the
clack). That leaves the contacts themselves, assuming that you've
checked all the connections, including ground side connections.
Charlie
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor or master switch problem? |
Like Charley, I support Roger's take. Do you have a diode across the
starter contacter? If not then I'd add possible burned contacts on the
Carling switch, too. Good luck, and if pass over SE Kansas on your trip
wave to Bob and me.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 6:52 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 8/2/2015 5:58 PM, rnjcurtis@charter.net wrote:
>
>
> I have been having some starting and electrical issues which I think may
> involve the master switch or the battery contactor.
>
> My son and I were going out flying one day last week, had preflighted the
> plane, and after we pulled the plane from the hanger we switched on the
> master switch. The electronics came on briefly and then faded away. There
> was no power for the starter. I thought that was odd because the plane
> normally has charger attached while in the hanger. The Odyssey specific
> charger indicated the battery was charged. After a quick trip home to find
> a volt meter we tested the voltage which was 13+v. We had the charger on
> while we gone so the reading was skewed because of that. We pulled the
> plane out and the electronics and starter worked normally.
>
> On Sat., I flew 8 trips of Young Eagles with no starting or electrical
> problems. After the event was over, a trip to the fuel pump had the
> electronics working but the starter contactor clicking but no prop
> rotation. I cycled the master switch several times and finally the engine
> turned over like nothing was wrong. I have a 1200 nm trip coming up soon
> so I need an answer so there are no problems along the way.
>
> The battery is a PC680 about 2 years old. The master switch (Carling) and
> battery contactor (B&C) are about 7 years old and have around 630 hours.
> Apparently the volts and amps are there but getting choked off before they
> can do their work. Right now, my thought is to replace them both, but
> especially the master switch, due to my impending trip. Any thoughts,
> better ideas or am I missing something?
>
> I had a similar problem a couple of years back. I would have to turn the
> master on and off several times to get power to the starter and
> electronics. Once the power came up it would run flawlessly until the next
> time I tried to start it.
>
> The problem turned out to be a bad, internal contact corrosion, master
> solenoid. I replaced it and the problem went away completely. After I
> replaced it I sent the defective unit to Bob N and he dissected it, took
> pictures, and posted on this forum. It is likely that you have a similar
> problem.
>
> Roger
>
> I'd probably vote with Roger. If you hear the master contactor 'clack'
> with its normal sound every time you flip the master switch, then the
> switch is almost certainly doing its job properly. The 'clack' means that
> the master switch is sending activation current to the contactor, and the
> solenoid in the contactor is moving the contacts together (the clack). That
> leaves the contacts themselves, assuming that you've checked all the
> connections, including ground side connections.
>
> Charlie
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
-Andre Gide
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor or master switch problem? |
My guess is the contactor is at fault. Once a contactor is energized, it does
not take as much current to hold it closed. If the master switch conducted enough
current to energize the contactor, then the switch should be able to hold
the contactor closed. But if you replace both, there is no guessing.
Also check the terminals on the fat wires, including the battery ground.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445525#445525
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Contactor or master switch problem? |
I'm with everyone else, and bet your problems are related to the contactor. I have
had numerous contractors fail over the years. This is the reason I decided
to go with the solid state master relay. Cost was higher but the weight is similar
and it works flawlessly so far. No more "click" means no more arcing and
worn out mechanical components. Solid state relays are known to last for millions
of cycles. More than we could ever do. The peace of mind alone is worth
the added cost. By the time you buy 2 contactors, you have paid for this unit.
I was worried at first that it would not charge the battery through the relay but
that proved to be no factor. It charges fine. So far, I am very happy with
it.
Rated at:
12.5V DC
300A continuous
500A (1sec) inrush
Seems robust enough so far.
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/44407/300A-Solid-State-Battery/
Data Sheet:
http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/44407.pdf
Justin
> On Aug 2, 2015, at 23:14, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> My guess is the contactor is at fault. Once a contactor is energized, it does
not take as much current to hold it closed. If the master switch conducted
enough current to energize the contactor, then the switch should be able to hold
the contactor closed. But if you replace both, there is no guessing.
> Also check the terminals on the fat wires, including the battery ground.
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445525#445525
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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