Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:43 AM - Alternator B-lead circuit protection (Dan Charrois)
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection (Jared Yates)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection (Rene)
4. 06:02 AM - Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection (C&K)
5. 06:24 AM - Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection (user9253)
6. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection (Tomhanaway)
7. 12:50 PM - Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection (ARGOLDMAN@aol.com)
8. 04:42 PM - Re: Ryan TCAD 9900B (Greenbacks, UnLtd.)
9. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Ryan TCAD 9900B (Ronald Cox)
10. 06:11 PM - 220vac diode? (John Burnaby)
11. 06:58 PM - Re: 220vac diode? (Bob McCallum)
12. 06:59 PM - Re: 220vac diode? (Ronald Cox)
13. 07:23 PM - Re: 220vac diode? (Charlie England)
14. 07:54 PM - Re: 220vac diode? (Bill Putney)
15. 08:03 PM - Re: 220vac diode? (Ronald Cox)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Alternator B-lead circuit protection |
Hi everyone. I have a quick question with regards to protecting alternator B-leads.
A lot of people do so with ANL fuses, yet I know some aircraft (like my C150) do
so with a circuit breaker. Of course, a disadvantage of the ANL is that if
it blew while on a trip, after fixing whatever caused the problem, a person would
have to source a new fuse which could result in the aircraft being grounded
waiting for one to be shipped (are ANL fuses that easy to find? I'm in Canada,
so my usual sources of parts are Aircraft Spruce, which doesn't seem to carry
them, or "chain" stores like Canadian Tire, which doesn't seem to either.
Though it does appear that Digikey carries them, so at least there is a source
here without having to go through the customs hassles of ordering from somewhere
like B&C). The natural advantage of a circuit breaker, of course, is that
it can be reset without replacing things once the problem is fixed.
But I don't like much the idea of bringing B-leads into the area behind the panel,
or even into the cockpit for that matter, and am unsure as to whether a circuit
breaker would cause more problems than it prevents due to nuisance trips.
I know it's not "conventionally" done, but is there any problem with locating
a B-lead circuit breaker under the cowling in the engine compartment if a person
were to go the circuit breaker route? After all, if a B-lead were to have
a current spike tripping the fuse or breaker, the cowling would likely have
to be pulled anyway to see what's going on.
Or is it better to just go the fuse route? And if so, any advantages of ANL over
MIDI style?
Thanks for any advice!
Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection |
My tool bag carries them! They are cheap enough and small enough to bring
a spare or two along, as to help mitigate that concern.
could result in the aircraft being grounded waiting for one to be shipped
> (are ANL fuses that easy to find? I'm in Canada, so my usual sources of
> parts are Aircraft Spruce, which doesn't seem to carry them, or "chain"
> stores like Canadian Tire, which doesn't seem to either.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Alternator B-lead circuit protection |
I used a CB mounted in the engine compartment.
I had a 60 amp alternator and went to a 70 amp alternator. I did not change
the CB (you see what is coming). On a long trip back East (from Utah), I
had the CB trip twice in flight. I did not think I could draw 60
amps......but I can. So when I got back I upgraded to a 70 amp CB.....no
trips since.
I have two batteries on board and on reduced load can go an entire flight
without the alternator.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Charrois
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 2:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator B-lead circuit protection
Hi everyone. I have a quick question with regards to protecting alternator
B-leads.
A lot of people do so with ANL fuses, yet I know some aircraft (like my
C150) do so with a circuit breaker. Of course, a disadvantage of the ANL is
that if it blew while on a trip, after fixing whatever caused the problem, a
person would have to source a new fuse which could result in the aircraft
being grounded waiting for one to be shipped (are ANL fuses that easy to
find? I'm in Canada, so my usual sources of parts are Aircraft Spruce,
which doesn't seem to carry them, or "chain" stores like Canadian Tire,
which doesn't seem to either. Though it does appear that Digikey carries
them, so at least there is a source here without having to go through the
customs hassles of ordering from somewhere like B&C). The natural advantage
of a circuit breaker, of course, is that it can be reset without replacing
things once the problem is fixed.
But I don't like much the idea of bringing B-leads into the area behind the
panel, or even into the cockpit for that matter, and am unsure as to whether
a circuit breaker would cause more problems than it prevents due to nuisance
trips. I know it's not "conventionally" done, but is there any problem with
locating a B-lead circuit breaker under the cowling in the engine
compartment if a person were to go the circuit breaker route? After all, if
a B-lead were to have a current spike tripping the fuse or breaker, the
cowling would likely have to be pulled anyway to see what's going on.
Or is it better to just go the fuse route? And if so, any advantages of ANL
over MIDI style?
Thanks for any advice!
Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection |
I've used a circuit breaker or maxi fuse with 40 amp alternators when
the battery is in the fuselage.
I would hesitate to use a C/B on the hot side of the FW since they are
likely more sensitive to the surrounding environment than fuses or an ANL.
Many automotive audio system vendors stock ANLs and they can always be
hotwired making them into essentially a fusable link.
Ken
On 07/08/2015 4:41 AM, Dan Charrois wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. I have a quick question with regards to protecting alternator B-leads.
>
> A lot of people do so with ANL fuses, yet I know some aircraft (like my C150)
do so with a circuit breaker. Of course, a disadvantage of the ANL is that if
it blew while on a trip, after fixing whatever caused the problem, a person
would have to source a new fuse which could result in the aircraft being grounded
waiting for one to be shipped (are ANL fuses that easy to find? I'm in Canada,
so my usual sources of parts are Aircraft Spruce, which doesn't seem to
carry them, or "chain" stores like Canadian Tire, which doesn't seem to either.
Though it does appear that Digikey carries them, so at least there is a source
here without having to go through the customs hassles of ordering from somewhere
like B&C). The natural advantage of a circuit breaker, of course, is that
it can be reset without replacing things once the problem is fixed.
>
> But I don't like much the idea of bringing B-leads into the area behind the panel,
or even into the cockpit for that matter, and am unsure as to whether a
circuit breaker would cause more problems than it prevents due to nuisance trips.
I know it's not "conventionally" done, but is there any problem with locating
a B-lead circuit breaker under the cowling in the engine compartment if a
person were to go the circuit breaker route? After all, if a B-lead were to
have a current spike tripping the fuse or breaker, the cowling would likely have
to be pulled anyway to see what's going on.
>
> Or is it better to just go the fuse route? And if so, any advantages of ANL
over MIDI style?
>
> Thanks for any advice!
>
> Dan
> ---
> Dan Charrois
> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
> Phone: 780-961-2213
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection |
If the ANL fuse is sized right and the terminals are kept tight, it should never
blow unless there is a bigger problem. There is less to go wrong with a fuse
compared to a circuit breaker. I would use a fuse located near the contactors.
The protective device does not have to be resetable for once in a lifetime event.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445669#445669
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection |
I agree that if a properly sized ANL fuse blows, you've probably got bigger problems.
However, I just carry a spare one in my kit
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 7, 2015, at 9:23 AM, user9253 <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> If the ANL fuse is sized right and the terminals are kept tight, it should never
blow unless there is a bigger problem. There is less to go wrong with a fuse
compared to a circuit breaker. I would use a fuse located near the contactors.
> The protective device does not have to be resetable for once in a lifetime event.
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445669#445669
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator B-lead circuit protection |
Uh- Yep
When discharged the battery will immediately take all of the available
alternator current if you have underrated the breaker, it will break.
The breaker, in any circuit should be sized to protect the wire, not the
deliverer of electrons nor those things that use them.
Rich
In a message dated 8/7/2015 8:03:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rene@felker.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rene" <rene@felker.com>
I used a CB mounted in the engine compartment.
I had a 60 amp alternator and went to a 70 amp alternator. I did not
change
the CB (you see what is coming). On a long trip back East (from Utah), I
had the CB trip twice in flight. I did not think I could draw 60
amps......but I can. So when I got back I upgraded to a 70 amp CB.....no
trips since.
I have two batteries on board and on reduced load can go an entire flight
without the alternator.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Charrois
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 2:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator B-lead circuit protection
Hi everyone. I have a quick question with regards to protecting alternator
B-leads.
A lot of people do so with ANL fuses, yet I know some aircraft (like my
C150) do so with a circuit breaker. Of course, a disadvantage of the ANL
is
that if it blew while on a trip, after fixing whatever caused the problem,
a
person would have to source a new fuse which could result in the aircraft
being grounded waiting for one to be shipped (are ANL fuses that easy to
find? I'm in Canada, so my usual sources of parts are Aircraft Spruce,
which doesn't seem to carry them, or "chain" stores like Canadian Tire,
which doesn't seem to either. Though it does appear that Digikey carries
them, so at least there is a source here without having to go through the
customs hassles of ordering from somewhere like B&C). The natural
advantage
of a circuit breaker, of course, is that it can be reset without replacing
things once the problem is fixed.
But I don't like much the idea of bringing B-leads into the area behind the
panel, or even into the cockpit for that matter, and am unsure as to
whether
a circuit breaker would cause more problems than it prevents due to
nuisance
trips. I know it's not "conventionally" done, but is there any problem
with
locating a B-lead circuit breaker under the cowling in the engine
compartment if a person were to go the circuit breaker route? After all,
if
a B-lead were to have a current spike tripping the fuse or breaker, the
cowling would likely have to be pulled anyway to see what's going on.
Or is it better to just go the fuse route? And if so, any advantages of
ANL
over MIDI style?
Thanks for any advice!
Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ryan TCAD 9900B |
I am searching for a wiring schematic for the Ryan TCAD 9900B.
Ryan was absorbed into Avidyne who has discontinued all support for the 9900B.
Ive got at least one or more faulty suppression diodes on the incoming grey code
lines
and a diagram would be helpful.
Thanks,
Angier Ames
N4ZQ
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ryan TCAD 9900B |
Angier,
A quick Google search turned this up, on 'Lectric Bob's site.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/TAS6XX_Install%20Manual_Rev04
_Oct05.pdf
Not a full schematic, but shows some detail you may or may not already have
.
Ron Cox
Glasair Super II F/T
*"Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the
state lives at the expense of everyone." - French statesman Frederic
Bastiat (1801-1850)*
On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Greenbacks, UnLtd. <n4zq@verizon.net> wrote
:
> n4zq@verizon.net>
>
> I am searching for a wiring schematic for the Ryan TCAD 9900B.
> Ryan was absorbed into Avidyne who has discontinued all support for the
> 9900B.
> I=99ve got at least one or more faulty suppression diodes on the in
coming
> grey code lines
> and a diagram would be helpful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Angier Ames
> N4ZQ
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 10
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I'm powering a device with two 220vac sources, one main and one backup. What
kind of diode, or other one-way device can I use to prevent backfeeding a
source wire when it should be off?
This project is taking place in Thailand that uses a neutral, 220 hot and a
ground wire in household wiring.
Thanks,
John
Message 11
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|
John;
Not quite sure what type of "device" you may be referring to, but this
sounds similar (or identical) to a backup generator situation for a house
service. The device "normally" used to make the changeover from one source
to the other is a transfer switch. Functionally it is basically a single
pole double throw relay with the coil attached to the "main" or "primary"
source. The primary source is also attached to the NO contact while the load
is connected to the moveable or common contact, and the secondary source is
connected to the NC contact.
Functionally while the primary source is live the relay is "closed" and
supplies the load form the primary source. Should the primary source be
lost, the relay drops out and connects the load to the secondary or backup
source through the NC contact. With this method you do lose power for a few
milliseconds during the transfer. Something to keep in mind if that would be
critical to your use. When the primary source is restored the relay picks up
and transfers the load back to the primary source. All automatically.
Not sure if this is what you're trying to achieve, but from your original
request it sounds like it is.
Diodes won't do what you're trying to accomplish because they are DC devices
and won't function in an AC circuit. If however your load is able to utilize
DC power then you could rectify the AC through diodes (rectifiers) and then
the paralleling of the sources through the diodes would work to prevent the
back-feeding of one source into the other.
Because you refer to household power I suspect that the relay/transfer
switch method described above is what you're after.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Burnaby
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 9:10 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 220vac diode?
I'm powering a device with two 220vac sources, one main and one backup. What
kind of diode, or other one-way device can I use to prevent backfeeding a
source wire when it should be off?
This project is taking place in Thailand that uses a neutral, 220 hot and a
ground wire in household wiring.
Thanks,
John
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 220vac diode? |
A diode won't work for AC, but something like a generator transfer switch
would probably work.
It's just a powered relay.
Ron Cox
On Aug 7, 2015 8:15 PM, "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impulse.net> wrote:
> I=99m powering a device with two 220vac sources, one main and one b
ackup.
> What kind of diode, or other one-way device can I use to prevent
> backfeeding a source wire when it should be off?
>
>
> This project is taking place in Thailand that uses a neutral, 220 hot and
> a ground wire in household wiring.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> *
>
===========
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 220vac diode? |
On 8/7/2015 8:10 PM, John Burnaby wrote:
>
> Im powering a device with two 220vac sources, one main and one
> backup. What kind of diode, or other one-way device can I use to
> prevent backfeeding a source wire when it should be off?
>
> This project is taking place in Thailand that uses a neutral, 220 hot
> and a ground wire in household wiring.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
If it's an AC device, diodes won't help.
For a single ended AC source/load, a double throw switch or relay would
work to select source A or source B.
A SPDT relay with the A pole NO and the B pole NC, with the 220 VAC coil
powered by A, would switch and power the load from A until A power is
lost. It would then 'drop out' to the NC (B) pole, powering the load from B.
Charlie
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 220vac diode? |
If it's two generators, the general procedure is to use synchronizing lights
(or some type of phasing meter). What you need to do is start the first gen
erator and close the output breaker (not closing it to the load but to the g
enerators bus of the transfer switch). Then start the second generator and a
djust the speed until the second generator is in phase and close its output
breaker. Both generators will stay in phase now on their own. You can paral
lel nearly as many generators as you like in this manor. Now you can flop th
e transfer switch to the generators. I did this every afternoon in Thailand d
uring the rainy season in the mid '60's.
If you are really talking about running a generator with the commercial main
s, DON'T DO IT!
That's called back feeding the grid and you can kill someone who thinks the l
ine is dead when in actuality you are feeding power to the commercial grid. T
his is illegal for good reason. There should always be a transfer switch bet
ween any generator power and the commercial mains that physically isolates t
wo with no possibility of one being tied to the other.
Bill
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 7, 2015, at 18:58, Ronald Cox <flyboyron@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A diode won't work for AC, but something like a generator transfer switch w
ould probably work.
> It's just a powered relay.
>
> Ron Cox
>
>> On Aug 7, 2015 8:15 PM, "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impulse.net> wrote:
>> I=99m powering a device with two 220vac sources, one main and one b
ackup. What kind of diode, or other one-way device can I use to prevent back
feeding a source wire when it should be off?
>>
>>
>>
>> This project is taking place in Thailand that uses a neutral, 220 hot and
a ground wire in household wiring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Li
st
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 220vac diode? |
I'm pretty sure he knows that he shouldn't back feed the mains, and is
trying to correctly prevent the situation your bringing up.
I believe he's trying to switch safely between, not parallel, two sources.
Ron Cox
On Friday, August 7, 2015, Bill Putney <billp@wwpc.com> wrote:
> If it's two generators, the general procedure is to use synchronizing
> lights (or some type of phasing meter). What you need to do is start the
> first generator and close the output breaker (not closing it to the load
> but to the generators bus of the transfer switch). Then start the second
> generator and adjust the speed until the second generator is in phase and
> close its output breaker. Both generators will stay in phase now on thei
r
> own. You can parallel nearly as many generators as you like in this manor
.
> Now you can flop the transfer switch to the generators. I did this every
> afternoon in Thailand during the rainy season in the mid '60's.
>
> If you are really talking about running a generator with the commercial
> mains, DON'T DO IT!
>
> That's called back feeding the grid and you can kill someone who thinks
> the line is dead when in actuality you are feeding power to the commercia
l
> grid. This is illegal for good reason. There should always be a transfer
> switch between any generator power and the commercial mains that physical
ly
> isolates two with no possibility of one being tied to the other.
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 7, 2015, at 18:58, Ronald Cox <flyboyron@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','flyboyron@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> A diode won't work for AC, but something like a generator transfer switch
> would probably work.
> It's just a powered relay.
>
> Ron Cox
> On Aug 7, 2015 8:15 PM, "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impulse.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jonlaury@impulse.net');>> wrote:
>
>> I=99m powering a device with two 220vac sources, one main and one
backup.
>> What kind of diode, or other one-way device can I use to prevent
>> backfeeding a source wire when it should be off?
>>
>>
>>
>> This project is taking place in Thailand that uses a neutral, 220 hot an
d
>> a ground wire in household wiring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-L
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