Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:56 AM - Re: electrical system master contactor (Bill Putney)
2. 10:07 AM - Re: electrical system master contactor (Bob Verwey)
3. 12:25 PM - Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane (Efraim Otero Leongomez)
4. 01:23 PM - Re: Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane (don van santen)
5. 01:49 PM - Re: electrical system planning (Jump4way)
6. 02:08 PM - Re: Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane (Kent or Jackie Ashton)
7. 02:10 PM - Re: Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane (user9253)
8. 10:23 PM - Unable to connect to aeroelectric (rayj)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: electrical system master contactor |
It depends on where your battery is. The Master Contractor should be
really close to the battery. The wire between the battery and the Master
has no protection and if that wire gets shorted there is nothing you can
do about it in flight. It will draw as much current as the battery can
supply and turn that into heat, read fire.
If you have your battery on the other side of the firewall and you use
something like a marine battery disconnect switch in the engine
compartment next to the battery you could extend the switch shaft into
the cockpit and put the knob where you can reach it. Another option
would be to rig a lever on a marine cutoff switch and use a cable pull
control in the cockpit to control the switch.
Remember that the Master <whatever you use> has to be capable of passing
engine starting current through it. That's probably the heaviest load
you have in the aircraft. Whatever you use has to be rated to at least
the current of the starter (when stalled) and anything else that is on
during startup. The switch you choose should also be designed to cut off
high currents under load. If you have a master bus short you want to be
able cut off the battery circuit without the switch exploding from the
plasma generated when it opens. That's why I suggested a marine battery
cutoff switch. It's a manual switch designed for the purpose.
Bill
On 8/19/15 22:35, Bob Verwey wrote:
> Thats the route i have gone
>
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2015, Bill Allen <billallensworld@gmail.com
> <mailto:billallensworld@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The master contactor pulls about 1.5 amps which is more than many
> components that "work for their living"
>
> Is there any reason why a heavy duty manual contactor could not be
> used instead of the traditional solenoid contactor, like this;
>
> http://tinyurl.com/nupw5xu
>
> Bill Allen
> LongEz160 N99BA FD51
> CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
>
> On 19 August 2015 at 15:00, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com');>>
> wrote:
>
> At 11:21 PM 8/18/2015, you wrote:
>
>> The battery contactor pulls nearly a full amp. Also it is
>> very easy to shed unneeded load by shutting the main down
>> and going with the "E" bus.
>
> Z-12 doesn't give you the option of running
> with the battery contactor open . . . Z13-8
> DID offer that mode . . . due to the limited
> output from the SD-8. Of course, it also offers
> a calculated plan-c for operating battery
> only.
>
> I once offered a Z-13/20 utilizing the
> SD-20 . . . kinda messy and I pulled it.
> I might do some asphalt-cogitation on another
> pass at it. In the mean time, Z-12 is
> exemplary of architectures flying on hundreds
> of TC aircraft of the production lines of
> Beech, Mooney, Piper et. als. . . . except
> their 'e-bus' is an (ugh!!) 'avionics-bus'.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *ist"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
> --
> Bill Allen
> LongEz160 N99BA FD51
> CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
>
> *ist"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *
>
>
> --
> Best...
> Bob Verwey
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: electrical system master contactor |
Hey Bill, I have the marine type and its about 1ft from the battery which
sits under the pilot seat.
On Thursday, August 20, 2015, Bill Putney <billp@wwpc.com> wrote:
> It depends on where your battery is. The Master Contractor should be
> really close to the battery. The wire between the battery and the Master
> has no protection and if that wire gets shorted there is nothing you can
do
> about it in flight. It will draw as much current as the battery can suppl
y
> and turn that into heat, read fire.
>
> If you have your battery on the other side of the firewall and you use
> something like a marine battery disconnect switch in the engine compartme
nt
> next to the battery you could extend the switch shaft into the cockpit an
d
> put the knob where you can reach it. Another option would be to rig a lev
er
> on a marine cutoff switch and use a cable pull control in the cockpit to
> control the switch.
>
> Remember that the Master <whatever you use> has to be capable of passing
> engine starting current through it. That's probably the heaviest load you
> have in the aircraft. Whatever you use has to be rated to at least the
> current of the starter (when stalled) and anything else that is on during
> startup. The switch you choose should also be designed to cut off high
> currents under load. If you have a master bus short you want to be able c
ut
> off the battery circuit without the switch exploding from the plasma
> generated when it opens. That's why I suggested a marine battery cutoff
> switch. It's a manual switch designed for the purpose.
>
> Bill
>
> On 8/19/15 22:35, Bob Verwey wrote:
>
> Thats the route i have gone
>
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2015, Bill Allen <
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','billallensworld@gmail.com');>
> billallensworld@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','billallensworld@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The master contactor pulls about 1.5 amps which is more than many
>> components that "work for their living"
>>
>> Is there any reason why a heavy duty manual contactor could not be used
>> instead of the traditional solenoid contactor, like this;
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/nupw5xu
>>
>> Bill Allen
>> LongEz160 N99BA FD51
>> CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
>>
>> On 19 August 2015 at 15:00, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> At 11:21 PM 8/18/2015, you wrote:
>>>
>>> The battery contactor pulls nearly a full amp. Also it is very easy to
>>> shed unneeded load by shutting=C3=82 the main down and going with the
"E" bus.
>>>
>>>
>>> Z-12 doesn't give you the option of running
>>> with the battery contactor open . . . Z13-8
>>> DID offer that mode . . . due to the limited
>>> output from the SD-8. Of course, it also offers
>>> a calculated plan-c for operating battery
>>> only.
>>>
>>> I once offered a Z-13/20 utilizing the
>>> SD-20 . . . kinda messy and I pulled it.
>>> I might do some asphalt-cogitation on another
>>> pass at it. In the mean time, Z-12 is
>>> exemplary of architectures flying on hundreds
>>> of TC aircraft of the production lines of
>>> Beech, Mooney, Piper et. als. . . . except
>>> their 'e-bus' is an (ugh!!) 'avionics-bus'.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-
List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com
/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bill Allen
>> LongEz160 N99BA FD51
>> CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-L
ist <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/
contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
> --
> Best...
> Bob Verwey
>
>
> *
>
===========
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Best...
Bob Verwey
Message 3
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| Subject: | Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane |
Dear All:
I have purchased and read Bob Nuckolls Aeroelectics book. I am a newbie in this
matter and want to instal an electrical system on my plane. It is a fisher Celbrity
powered by a Continental O200.
I bought a B&C Specialety BCh433 alternator which I plan to instal and get enough
power generation to charge my battery and power a Sandia STX transponder and
a flightline Fl760 Comms radio.
How do I go about constructing the Buss bar to hook my avionics up? I purchased
some brass sheet bars but do not have a clue as to how to mount them, drill them
and attach them to the firewall.
Any ideas? Pictures? Suggestions?
Thank you in advance for your input!
Cheers
Ephraim
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane |
B and C fuse holders make great "bus" bars.
On Aug 20, 2015 12:31 PM, "Efraim Otero Leongomez" <efraim.otero@gmail.com>
wrote:
> efraim.otero@gmail.com>
>
> Dear All:
> I have purchased and read Bob Nuckoll=99s Aeroelectics book. I am a
newbie
> in this matter and want to instal an electrical system on my plane. It is
a
> fisher Celbrity powered by a Continental O200.
>
> I bought a B&C Specialety BCh433 alternator which I plan to instal and ge
t
> enough power generation to charge my battery and power a Sandia STX
> transponder and a flightline Fl760 Comms radio.
>
> How do I go about constructing the Buss bar to hook my =9Cavionics
=9D up? I
> purchased some brass sheet bars but do not have a clue as to how to mount
> them, drill them and attach them to the firewall.
>
> Any ideas? Pictures? Suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance for your input!
> Cheers
> Ephraim
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: electrical system planning |
Thanks for the replies. I'll get to work seeing if there is a way to reduce the
EBUS load to something more manageable. Like original poster, If I reduce down
to only the items essential to keep the engine running, I'll be at 10amps so
that alone says that the SD8 alternator is not my best option. I also need to
get a handle on the total load required for each of the busses. If I can keep
that under the 20-30 amps that the backup alternators can provide then the decisions
seem more simplified.
[/quote]I once offered a Z-13/20 utilizing the
SD-20 . . . kinda messy and I pulled it.
I might do some asphalt-cogitation on another
pass at it.[/quote]
I would certainly be interested to see a Z-13/20 if you get the time to put it
together.
I like the idea of being able to load shed items by simply closing off the master
switch. It seems what I'm learning from reading these forums and Bob's book
that I could put items essential for flght (EFII primary coil, ECU 88, and primary
fuel pump) on the battery bus. The decisions come on what additional items
to put on the EBUS. I think the EBUS could be used as a place to power the
additional items that help assure a safe outcome of the flight such as GPS for
nagivation, One Comm, autopilot servos and EFIS. All of the other items could
be on the main buss such as Flaps, landing and nav lights, trim motors, transponder,
12V outlet, USB charging, Cabin lights, and secondary EFII Coil pump and
ECU). This plan would allow quickly load shedding everything on the main buss
in the event of a dual alternator failure. I think Z12 will allow this. Does
this plan sound reasonable or am I approaching this from the wrong angle?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446207#446207
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane |
The cheapest and easiest way, IMO, is to use a Cooper Bussman fuse block for ATC
blade fuses. Power comes to the block, then through the fuses to the various
systems. Many versions here
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/transportation/products/power_distribution/fuse_panels.html
When I have wanted an essential bus, I take the fuse block apart, cut the large
center conductor, solder on an extra mounting tab on the other end of it, and
get two buses out of it.
You can mount them on the panel or out-of-the-way.
-Kent
> On Aug 20, 2015, at 3:23 PM, Efraim Otero Leongomez <efraim.otero@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Dear All:
> I have purchased and read Bob Nuckolls Aeroelectics book. I am a newbie in this
matter and want to instal an electrical system on my plane. It is a fisher
Celbrity powered by a Continental O200.
>
> I bought a B&C Specialety BCh433 alternator which I plan to instal and get enough
power generation to charge my battery and power a Sandia STX transponder
and a flightline Fl760 Comms radio.
>
> How do I go about constructing the Buss bar to hook my avionics up? I purchased
some brass sheet bars but do not have a clue as to how to mount them, drill
them and attach them to the firewall.
>
> Any ideas? Pictures? Suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance for your input!
> Cheers
> Ephraim
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Building a buss bar for my wood and fabric biplane |
A fuse block will be less expensive and might be easier to install.
The type sold by B&C has the output terminals on the front, but they can be bent
backwards somewhat. It is not designed to be mounted on the instrument panel,
although it could be with some ingenuity.
http://www.bandc.biz/fuseholder12-slot.aspx
http://home.earthlink.net/~dswartzendruber/id13.html
The Bussman SERIES 15710 Looks like it is intended to be panel mounted.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446209#446209
Message 8
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| Subject: | Unable to connect to aeroelectric |
Just an FYI.
do not archive
At 00:18 on 8/21/15 I was not able to connect to www.aeroelectric.com
from the links below.
The message came back as unable to connect to server at www.aeroelectric.com
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)
On 08/19/2015 10:01 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 10:28 AM 8/19/2015, you wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The master contactor pulls about 1.5 amps which is more than many
>> components that "work for their living"
>
> Actually, the legacy beer-barrel contactors are
> not that power hungry.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/mpcgp3t
>
> http://tinyurl.com/k6bwdqo
>
>
>> Is there any reason why a heavy duty manual contactor could not be
>> used instead of the traditional solenoid contactor, like this;
>
> . . . but if you can place such a switch where it
> is easily reached with SHORT connections
> to the battery, that's good too. Took dual
> instruction in a Tri-Pacer about 1961 that
> with manual switches for both the starter
> and battery. But battery was under the seat
> and wire runs short.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
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