AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 10/20/15


Total Messages Posted: 3



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:15 AM - Re: Bouncing ammeter question (rayj)
     2. 04:51 AM - Re: Bouncing ammeter question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 06:03 AM - Re: US 240v to power EU 240v machine? (Bob McCallum)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:15:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Bouncing ammeter question
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    I don't recall the details, but there's something about old Cessnas and bouncing meters that Bob has written about on this list. Something about cumulative resistance from all the junctions in the circuits, if I recall correctly. I'm sure Bob will comment soon. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 10/19/2015 01:20 PM, Dennis A Glaeser wrote: > Bob, et.al., > > One of my students bought an AA-1 Yankee which has an interesting issue. > > The ammeter needle bounces constantly has done so since he bought it. > > Yesterday when flying I noticed that the backlighting on the LCD radio > display, and the instrument post lights flicker in time with the > bouncing needle (had to look close to see the flicker in the post > lights). No other symptoms that I have noticed. > > I figured it was a VR issue. He recently had a new VR installed, due to > a battery charging issue, and the bouncing is still there. The A&P did > voltage testing (dont know exactly what) and reported everything works > as expected (except for the bouncing needle). > > So my questions are: > > What can cause that? > > What can we look at for further diagnosis? > > Thanks, > > Dennis Glaeser > > > Nothing in this message is intended to constitute an electronic > signature unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in > this message. > > Confidentiality Note: This message is intended only for the person or > entity to which it is addressed. It may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, transmission, dissemination or other > use, or taking of any action in reliance upon this message by persons or > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you received this message in error, please contact the > sender and delete it from your computer. > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution >


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:51:41 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Bouncing ammeter question
    At 04:13 AM 10/20/2015, you wrote: > >I don't recall the details, but there's something about old Cessnas >and bouncing meters that Bob has written about on this >list. Something about cumulative resistance from all the junctions >in the circuits, if I recall correctly. I'm sure Bob will comment soon. > >Raymond Julian >Kettle River, MN Your system architecture and symptoms are typical of literally millions of examples of similar problems throughout the spectrum of vehicular DC power systems of which airplanes are a small portion. A COMMON THREAD that runs through these systems occurs when the regulator voltage sense line shares a path with alternator field current. This is typical of ALL three-wire regulators of which the 'ford' legacy devices are but one example. This condition is well known in architectures of this type and is often called the 'galloping ammeter'. In the older Cessnas, I recommend refurbishing everything from the bus bar to the regulator which would include breaker, alternator switch and wires. Doing any ONE thing might 'cure' the problem but it's the sum-total of environmentally driven resistance creep that finally stacks up to cause the instability. You may cure it with one replacement but only by replacing ALL will you get back to as-new condition. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternators/Know_Your_Charging_System.pdf Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:03:33 AM PST US
    From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: US 240v to power EU 240v machine?
    The higher the frequency the less iron is needed. This is one of the reason s that aircraft AC systems are generally 400 cycle. Due to the lower iron r equirement=2C all else being equal they're lighter. In today's modern effor ts for "cheap" construction=2C the iron content is likely to be the bare mi nimum. "Old" motors on the other hand may have way more than adequate iron content and may work just fine on the lower European frequency. Bob McC > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: US 240v to power EU 240v machine? > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > From: peter@sportingaero.com > Date: Mon=2C 19 Oct 2015 21:04:55 +0100 > ro.com> > > > Also depending on the iron content 60 cycle motors may tend to > overheat on 50 cycle. > > That's interesting=2C I bought a large 240v compressor when I lived in th e > US. Now trying to run it in the UK it keeps overheating and popping the > thermal cut-out. I guess a new motor is on the cards... > > Peter > > Do not archive > > > On 18/10/2015 23:53=2C Bob McCallum wrote: m2@sympatico.ca> > > > > The original question was for the "simplest" way to operate the UK devi ce on > > a North American power system. The "Simplest" way is what I described. No > > transformer is required. A 240 volt device is a 240 volt device no matt er > > which side of the ocean it resides on. In the UK (or Europe) 240 volt s ingle > > phase devices are connected between a "hot" line and a "neutral" (groun ded) > > line. In North America that same 240 volt single phase device would be > > connected between the two live line connections (L1=2C L2=2C as you've > > described) and not connected to the "neutral" (grounded) connection. In > > either case the actual "ground" (earth) connection would be made as usu al. > > > > My original description in no way suggested connecting together the two > > "line" connections creating a direct short as you seem to have interpre ted. > > Maybe I should have said "Connect your two North American 240 volt hot lines > > to the "line" and > > "neutral" RESPECTIVLY of the British plug and ground to ground of cours e and > > you're good > > to go" to make it clearer. > > > > If that British supply cord were cut open you would find a Brown conduc tor > > which you would connect to L1 of the North American system=2C a blue co nductor > > which you would connect to L2=2C and a green/yellow striped conductor w hich > > you would connect to ground. (green or bare in the American system). > > > > The transformer connections you describe are correct and would work=2C but the > > transformer is not necessary. Simply connect directly to the 240 lines plus > > ground. > > > > The only slight difference=2C as someone else pointed out=2C is frequen cy=2C which > > in North America is 60 Hertz and most of the rest of the planet 50 hert z. > > This will make a difference in the speed of motors which will be faster on > > 60 and slower on 50. Also depending on the iron content 60 cycle motors may > > tend to overheat on 50 cycle. > > > > Respectfully > > Bob McC > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Putney > >> Sent: Sunday=2C October 18=2C 2015 5:22 PM > >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: US 240v to power EU 240v machine? > >> > >> > >> Ouch! So=2C in the U.S. on single phase services=2C the usual arrangem ent is > >> 120V (L1) -neutral-120V (L2) and a separate protective ground that is > >> tied to neutral at the load panel. A 240V to 240V isolation transforme r > >> can be used to make the connection you need. On the U.S. side=2C L1 an d L2 > >> are connected to the transformer's primary and on the U.K. side connec t > >> one leg of the transformer to neutral and one leg to 240V hot. Pass th e > >> protective ground through. > >> > >> If you connect the L1 and L2 of the U.S. system together you will make a > >> lot of sparks and pop the circuit breaker! L1 and L2 are 2 120V legs > >> 180=BA out of phase. Don't connect them! > >> > >> For just a 150W device I think you'll find an "International Step-up > >> Transformer" is probably the simplest solution. Forget the U.S. 240V > >> circuit all together. For $35 on Amazon I don't think you can buy all > >> the connectors and stuff you need to build a solution for that price. > >> > >> http://www.amazon.com/Dynastar-Converter-Transformer-Lifetime-5-Year- > >> Warranty/dp/B00KAJ8KG2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1445203102&sr=8- > >> 6&keywords=international+transformer > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> On 10/18/15 13:09=2C Bob McCallum wrote: > >> <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> > >>> The plug you've pictured is actually "British Standard" not EU=2C but > > simply > >>> connect your two North American 240 volt hot lines to the "line" and > >>> "neutral" of the British plug and ground to ground of course and you' re > > good > >>> to go. (Ignore/don't connect=2C the North American neutral.) As someo ne > > else > >>> mentioned if this is a permanent conversion=2C cut off the British pl ug=2C > >>> attach a NEMA 6-15 North American plug http://tinyurl.com/nfrrzrx t he > >>> matching receptacle such as this http://tinyurl.com/pags86c =2C and y ou're > >>> set. > >>> > >>> If you don't wish to modify the existing plug=2C here's the matching > > British > >>> receptacle. http://tinyurl.com/qcqqd9p > >>> By the way the British plugs are internally fused @ 13 Amps so the > > concern > >>> for connecting to a North American dryer or stove circuit is minimal as > > long > >>> as you retain the existing plug. (you can actually see the fuse in yo ur > >>> photo) > >>> > >>> Bob McC > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > >>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > >>>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonlaury > >>>> Sent: Sunday=2C October 18=2C 2015 2:45 PM > >>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > >>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: US 240v to power EU 240v machine? > >>>> > > <jonlaury@impulse.net> > >>>> During the lull in aerolectric posts... > >>>> > >>>> What's the simplest way to use US 240v to power a EU 240v @ 150w > > machine. > >>> The EU > >>>> machine uses a single hot leg=2C neutral and ground through the plug in > > the > >>> picture > >>>> attached. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks=2C > >>>> John > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Read this topic online here: > >>>> > >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448050#448050 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Attachments: > >>>> > >>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc03159_small_173.jpg > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _- > >>>> > >> ======================= ===== > >>>> ===== > >>>> _- > >>>> > >> ======================= ===== > >>>> ===== > >>>> _- > >>>> > >> ======================= ===== > >>>> ===== > >>>> _- > >>>> > >> ======================= ===== > >>>> ===== > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _- > >> ======================= ===== > >> ===== > >> _- > >> ======================= ===== > >> ===== > >> _- > >> ======================= ===== > >> ===== > >> _- > >> ======================= ===== > >> ===== > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > >




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