---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/23/15: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 09:50 AM - Fund Raiser Behind By 22% - Please Contribute Today! (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:59 AM - Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P (user9253) 2. 03:47 PM - Alternator Overvoltage (Ivan) 3. 04:18 PM - Re: Alternator Overvoltage (Jeff Luckey) 4. 04:18 PM - Re: Alternator Overvoltage (C&K) 5. 04:38 PM - Re: Alternator Overvoltage (Charlie England) 6. 05:36 PM - Re: Alternator Overvoltage (user9253) 7. 05:53 PM - Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P (sacha) 8. 06:58 PM - Re: Alternator Overvoltage (H. Ivan Haecker) 9. 08:37 PM - Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P (user9253) 10. 08:57 PM - Re: Alternator Overvoltage (user9253) 11. 08:57 PM - Re: Alternator Overvoltage (Charlie England) 12. 08:58 PM - Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P (user9253) 13. 09:22 PM - Re: Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P (Charlie England) 14. 11:48 PM - Intercom volume (Stuart Hutchison) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:24 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fund Raiser Behind By 22% - Please Contribute Today! Dear Listers, The percentage of members making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is currently behind last year by at this time by roughly 22%. Please take this opportunity to show your support for the Matronics Lists and Forums! 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Matt Dralle Email List and Forums Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:36 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P From: "user9253" The vast majority of electrical problems are caused by bad connections. Checking each connection in both the positive and negative side of the circuits will only cost your time. Take apart each connection, shine up the metal, apply a film of grease, and reassemble. Also tug hard on each terminal and check for corrosion between wires and crimped terminals. Switches can also have internal corrosion. Cycling them several times might clean the contacts. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=449967#449967 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:01 PM PST US From: Ivan Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Overvoltage On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any suggestions? Ivan Haecker ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:00 PM PST US From: Jeff Luckey Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Overvoltage Ivan, Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to bench te st the module?=C2- Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the trip p oint of your OVM.=C2- That's where I would start based upon your descript ion. -Jeff On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan wro te: On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently fu nctioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alterna tor off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit=C2- (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator , I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous p osts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My question s are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I h ave inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the al ternator is functioning because=C2- I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any suggestions? Ivan Haecker =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Overvoltage From: C&K Next thing I'd try is to see if the alternator is still outputting current and high voltage with the field disconnected to verify no internal field problem. Note that some of the Japanese alternators of that era were controlled with the regulator on the positive side of the field rather than on the negative side as per most alternators and most regulators. Ken On 23/11/2015 6:43 PM, Ivan wrote: > > On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any suggestions? > > Ivan Haecker > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Overvoltage From: Charlie England I'd find the proper hookup diagram for both the alternator that you have, and the regulator that you're using. There's at least an outside chance something isn't hooked up correctly, since it's a different model regulator. What voltage do you measure if you disable the OV module & leave the regulator in the circuit? On 11/23/2015 6:16 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: > Ivan, > > Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to > bench test the module? > > Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the > trip point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon your > description. > > -Jeff > > > On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan wrote: > > > > > > On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) > apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker > taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem > would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original > voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a > small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to > find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from > NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The > problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this > problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have > inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the > alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the > field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any > s.matronics.com/contribution" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp; -Matt > Dralle, List > Admin.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; > http://forums.sp; - List Contribution Web Site - > _; &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c================== > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:14 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Overvoltage From: "user9253" Does the field circuit breaker trip with the engine NOT running? If yes, then suspect the over voltage module or a wire shorted to ground. If it only trips with the engine running, does it trip at idle RPM? If it trips only at higher RPM, then the regulator is not working. It is unlikely that the alternator is at fault. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=450075#450075 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:37 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P From: "sacha" Hi Joe, thanks for that suggestion. I now know that the noise comes from the Alternator and not the Mags. I have a specific question: Regarding the ground connections my A&P did the following tests: - added a ground strap between the alternator and the engine crank case - added a ground strap between the (rear-mounted) battery and the airframe In neither case did the alternator whine disappear. Are these tests sufficient to prove that these connections are not the cause of the whine? Sacha Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=450077#450077 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Overvoltage From: "H. Ivan Haecker" Yes, I'm sure it the voltage regulator is wired correctly as I just checked Bob's Z-11 diagram. I have also checked the alternator with the ov module disconnected and the voltage regulator in the circuit. Still producing about 19 volts at 1000 rpm. I haven't tested the ov module trip point, but obviously without it in the circuit, the voltage is too high. If it is not the alternator, I just feel I must have a bad original voltage regulator and a bad new replacement. I don't know how to test a voltage regulator though. Ivan Haecker On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Charlie England wrote: > I'd find the proper hookup diagram for both the alternator that you have, > and the regulator that you're using. There's at least an outside chance > something isn't hooked up correctly, since it's a different model > regulator. What voltage do you measure if you disable the OV module & leave > the regulator in the circuit? > > On 11/23/2015 6:16 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: > > Ivan, > > Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to bench > test the module? > > Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the trip > point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon your description. > > -Jeff > > > On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan > wrote: > > > > On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently > functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the > alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur > whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator > had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from > a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage > regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by > previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. > My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, > or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I > believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with > the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any > s.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/connbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; http://forums.sp; > - List Contribution Web Site - > _; &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c================== > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:40 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P From: "user9253" > Are these tests sufficient to prove that these connections are not the cause of the whine? Probably. There is also the connection between the engine case and the airframe. And then there all of the connections on the positive side of the circuit. Pay particular attention to the alternator and voltage regulator. Also check all audio input circuits like mics and intercom and music input. Any audio circuit that gets amplified is vulnerable to noise. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=450080#450080 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:33 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Overvoltage From: "user9253" > Still producing about 19 volts at 1000 rpm. The problem is either the voltage regulator or its related circuit. Using the voltage regulator case (or regulator ground terminal) as a reference point (not the airframe or battery negative), measure the voltage on the regulator "sense" terminal. If that voltage is higher than 14.5 volts with the engine running, then the regulator is bad. If the voltage is not higher than 14.5, then there is a bad connection someplace. The alternator on-off switch or circuit breaker contacts or a wire terminal could be corroded. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=450081#450081 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Overvoltage From: Charlie England If you're seeing 19V on a regulated 14V system, then either the reg is bad or something isn't hooked up correctly. Most auto parts stores will test alternators and regulators for free these days (at least Autozone will). Just take the suspect reg to them & ask them to test it. You may need to tell them what 'car' it was installed on. :-) Just find a model that used that regulator & tell them that. BTW, I'd certainly pull the breakers or fuses on *all* electrical load items in the plane while doing your in-plane testing..... On 11/23/2015 8:57 PM, H. Ivan Haecker wrote: > Yes, I'm sure it the voltage regulator is wired correctly as I just > checked Bob's Z-11 diagram. I have also checked the alternator with > the ov module disconnected and the voltage regulator in the circuit. > Still producing about 19 volts at 1000 rpm. I haven't tested the ov > module trip point, but obviously without it in the circuit, the > voltage is too high. If it is not the alternator, I just feel I must > have a bad original voltage regulator and a bad new replacement. I > don't know how to test a voltage regulator though. > > Ivan Haecker > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Charlie England > wrote: > > I'd find the proper hookup diagram for both the alternator that > you have, and the regulator that you're using. There's at least an > outside chance something isn't hooked up correctly, since it's a > different model regulator. What voltage do you measure if you > disable the OV module & leave the regulator in the circuit? > > On 11/23/2015 6:16 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote: >> Ivan, >> >> Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way >> to bench test the module? >> >> Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine >> the trip point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon >> your description. >> >> -Jeff >> >> >> >> On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) >> apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit >> breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and >> checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was >> reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 >> Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid >> 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage >> regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as >> suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem >> reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this >> problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have >> inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe >> the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with >> the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any >> s.matronics.com/contribution >> " >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp; >> -Matt Dralle, List >> Admin.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; >> http://forums.sp; - List Contribution Web Site - >> _; &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:09 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P From: "user9253" Microphone jacks should be insulated from the airframe. The coax should be grounded at the avionics end only. -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=450083#450083 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Troubleshooting radio whine/noise on Cessna 182P From: Charlie England On November 23, 2015 10:35:44 PM CST, user9253 wrote: > >Microphone jacks should be insulated from the airframe. The coax >should be grounded at the avionics end only. > >-------- >Joe Gores > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=450083#450083 > > Careful; many circuits use the shield as the return for the signal. In that case, the shield must be 'grounded' at both ends. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:07 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intercom volume From: Stuart Hutchison Gday. Can someone please confirm whether the intercom signal (i.e. volume) is diluted by connecting other recording devices in parallel with the main intercom jacks? Id like to hardwire one or two sockets to connect multiple GoPro cameras to the intercom, but not if it will significantly degrade system performance. Cheers, Stu > On 24 Nov 2015, at 3:35 PM, user9253 wrote: > > > Microphone jacks should be insulated from the airframe. The coax should be grounded at the avionics end only. > > -------- > Joe Gores ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.