AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 01/10/16


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:05 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (Trent Heidtke)
     2. 08:20 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (Charlie England)
     3. 08:54 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (Justin Jones)
     4. 09:36 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 09:48 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 09:55 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (Michael Lazarowicz)
     7. 10:08 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (William Mills)
     8. 10:35 AM - Re: Grounding Tabs (H. Marvin Haught Jr.)
     9. 02:38 PM - Re: Returned Mail: Re: Grounding Tabs (Michael Lazarowicz)
    10. 03:50 PM - Re: Grounding Tabs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Returned Mail: Re: Grounding Tabs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:05:39 AM PST US
    From: "Trent Heidtke" <theidtke@cox.net>
    Subject: Grounding Tabs
    Marvin, You might find a good explanation and tips in the Wiring For Smart People document included as a link here. http://www.meyette.us/aircraft_wiring12july2008.pdf I found it very useful when wiring my plane. If I did it/read it right, the answer to your question is to isolate the grounding buss and take a lead back to the main battery and/or battery buss. Just my two cents.. Trent From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H. Marvin Haught Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 2:57 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding Tabs Bob - I think you answered only half the question. Is it better to isolate the grounding buss, and run a dedicated ground back to the firewall ground, or mount the ground buss to the airframe, and not run a wire back to to the firewall ground? In a metal airplane. Are you more apt to have possible ground loops if you mount the buss to the airframe than you would isolating it from the airframe and running the ground wire back to the firewall ground? M. Haught On Jan 9, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: At 02:28 PM 1/9/2016, you wrote: Bob, When another =9Cgrounding bus=9D is used, like an avionics ground bus or a =9Cpanel=9D ground bus, is it necessary to isolate/isolate that ground bus from the =9Clocal=9D ground, or other metal frame on the aircraft, before it is connected to the common firewall ground? It seems to me that you should do that to eliminate other possibilities of ground loops. I'm going to clarify Z-15 in next revision . . . you're correct that running a ground from panel ground to firewall ground is redundant in a metal airplane. It doesn't hurt anything as long as all the potential victims (avionics and instruments) ground at the single point panel ground. No potentially antagonist loops are created by adding a wire to the firewall . . . it's just redundant. Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:20:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs
    From: Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
    There's probably some useful info there, but keep your salt shaker handy. Charlie On 1/10/2016 9:03 AM, Trent Heidtke wrote: > > Marvin, > > You might find a good explanation and tips in the Wiring For Smart > People document included as a link here. > http://www.meyette.us/aircraft_wiring12july2008.pdf > > I found it very useful when wiring my plane. If I did it/read it > right, the answer to your question is to isolate the grounding buss > and take a lead back to the main battery and/or battery buss. > > Just my two cents.. > > Trent > > *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *H. Marvin Haught > *Sent:* Saturday, January 09, 2016 2:57 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding Tabs > > Bob - I think you answered only half the question. Is it better to > isolate the grounding buss, and run a dedicated ground back to the > firewall ground, or mount the ground buss to the airframe, and not run > a wire back to to the firewall ground? In a metal airplane. Are you > more apt to have possible ground loops if you mount the buss to the > airframe than you would isolating it from the airframe and running the > ground wire back to the firewall ground? > > M. Haught > > On Jan 9, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com > <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> wrote: > > At 02:28 PM 1/9/2016, you wrote: > > Bob, > > When another grounding bus is used, like an avionics ground bus > or a panel ground bus, is it necessary to isolate/isolate that > ground bus from the local ground, or other metal frame on the > aircraft, before it is connected to the common firewall ground? > It seems to me that you should do that to eliminate other > possibilities of ground loops. > > > I'm going to clarify Z-15 in next revision . . . > you're correct that running a ground from > panel ground to firewall ground is redundant in a metal > airplane. It doesn't hurt anything as long as all > the potential victims (avionics and instruments) > ground at the single point panel ground. No > potentially antagonist loops are created by adding > a wire to the firewall . . . it's just redundant. > > > Bob . . . >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:54:44 AM PST US
    From: Justin Jones <jmjones2000@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs
    I think the can of worms was just reopened. There is some correct information in this document but there is a whole lot o f opinions. The document was written by Greg from the now-defunct Blue Mount ain Avionics. Bob has attempted to have an open discussion on some of the points that Greg has attempted to make, but from what I recall, Greg wasn't interested in th e discussion for one reason or another. I will let Bob elaborate. Just a few rhetorical questions about some of the points he made.... Why wou ld you want two batteries (or one 24v) and not two alternators? What if the b elt driving the alternator breaks or the bearing in the alternator causes it to fail? Or the alternator fails? Or the regulator fails... With an electri cally dependent engine, hack the clock as your airborne time is now limited. With a second alternator (perhaps driven from the vacuum pad) you now have a non-event and lower risk of an impending engine failure due to running out o f stored electrons. There are many more issues with the document that I won't go into, however s ome of the information is factually correct. Be careful out there. The Internet is full of potentially bad information. Justin > On Jan 10, 2016, at 07:03, Trent Heidtke <theidtke@cox.net> wrote: > > Marvin, > You might find a good explanation and tips in the Wiring For Smart People d ocument included as a link here. http://www.meyette.us/aircraft_wiring12ju ly2008.pdf > I found it very useful when wiring my plane. If I did it/read it right, t he answer to your question is to isolate the grounding buss and take a lead b ack to the main battery and/or battery buss. > Just my two cents.. > Trent > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H. Marvin Haught > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 2:57 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding Tabs > > Bob - I think you answered only half the question. Is it better to isola te the grounding buss, and run a dedicated ground back to the firewall groun d, or mount the ground buss to the airframe, and not run a wire back to to t he firewall ground? In a metal airplane. Are you more apt to have possible ground loops if you mount the buss to the airframe than you would isolating it from the airframe and running the ground wire back to the firewall groun d? > > M. Haught > > > On Jan 9, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelec tric.com> wrote: > > At 02:28 PM 1/9/2016, you wrote: > > Bob, > > When another =C2=93grounding bus=C2=94 is used, like an avionics ground bu s or a =C2=93panel=C2=94 ground bus, is it necessary to isolate/isolate that ground bus from the =C2=93local=C2=94 ground, or other metal frame on the a ircraft, before it is connected to the common firewall ground? It seems to m e that you should do that to eliminate other possibilities of ground loops. > > I'm going to clarify Z-15 in next revision . . . > you're correct that running a ground from > panel ground to firewall ground is redundant in a metal > airplane. It doesn't hurt anything as long as all > the potential victims (avionics and instruments) > ground at the single point panel ground. No > potentially antagonist loops are created by adding > a wire to the firewall . . . it's just redundant. > > > > Bob . . . >


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:36:51 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs
    At 03:57 PM 1/9/2016, you wrote: >Bob - I think you answered only half the question. Is it better to >isolate the grounding buss, and run a dedicated ground back to the >firewall ground, or mount the ground buss to the airframe, and not >run a wire back to to the firewall ground? In the metal airplane, grounding all panel mounted systems to panel structure is sufficient . . . no 'extension' wire to the firewall is useful . . . nor is it a potential 'loop hazard'. >In a metal airplane. Are you more apt to have possible ground loops >if you mount the buss to the airframe than you would isolating it >from the airframe and running the ground wire back to the firewall ground? No . . . the 'loop' exists when a potential antagonist (alternator, battery charging currents, flap motors, strobe supplies, etc) SHARES a grounding pathway with the low voltage signals of a potential victim (headphones, microphones, intercoms, remote compass sensors, etc). Tie all potential victims to ground at one place local to the panel . . . after that, signal integrity is no longer 'at risk' no matter how and where you ground all other things, Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:48:34 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Grounding Tabs
    At 09:03 AM 1/10/2016, you wrote: >Marvin, >You might find a good explanation and tips in >the Wiring For Smart People document included as >a link here.=C2 >=C2 ><http://www.meyette.us/aircraft_wiring12july2008.pdf>http://www.meyette.us/ aircraft_wiring12july2008.pdf >I found it very useful when wiring my >plane.=C2 If I did it/read it right, the answer >to your question is to isolate the grounding >buss and take a lead back to the main battery and/or battery buss. Approach that document with caution . . . it is fraught with error and unfounded assertions. See: http://tinyurl.com/qxvr6nx Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:55:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs
    From: Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330@gmail.com>
    Thanks so much for the link Trent. It was very helpful. I am starting to learn that some of this stuff is a lot of personal preference, but the basic rules are all the same. After all of this I will ground everything to a singe point (forest of tabs) that is directly connected to the Battery Ground, Firewall and engine ground strap. My only real issue was, because of the RV8 forward baggage location, is how to get all the grounds to the Brass bolt on the firewall and how large the connecting wire should be. A # 6 wire will do the trick. It is basically a all aircraft version of Bob's D-sub avionics grounding set up for the Avionics items. I would much rather have all the Tabs right on the back side of the firewall, but in the RV8 it just makes for a lot of extra long grounding wires routed in a inconvenient place. I will try and post some photos of my " final solution" Thanks again Mike On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Trent Heidtke <theidtke@cox.net> wrote: > Marvin, > > You might find a good explanation and tips in the Wiring For Smart People > document included as a link here. > http://www.meyette.us/aircraft_wiring12july2008.pdf > > I found it very useful when wiring my plane. If I did it/read it right, > the answer to your question is to isolate the grounding buss and take a > lead back to the main battery and/or battery buss. > > Just my two cents.. > > Trent > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *H. Marvin > Haught > *Sent:* Saturday, January 09, 2016 2:57 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding Tabs > > > Bob - I think you answered only half the question. Is it better to > isolate the grounding buss, and run a dedicated ground back to the firewa ll > ground, or mount the ground buss to the airframe, and not run a wire back > to to the firewall ground? In a metal airplane. Are you more apt to hav e > possible ground loops if you mount the buss to the airframe than you woul d > isolating it from the airframe and running the ground wire back to the > firewall ground? > > > M. Haught > > > On Jan 9, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > > At 02:28 PM 1/9/2016, you wrote: > > Bob, > > When another =9Cgrounding bus=9D is used, like an avionics gr ound bus or a > =9Cpanel=9D ground bus, is it necessary to isolate/isolate th at ground bus from > the =9Clocal=9D ground, or other metal frame on the aircraft, before it is > connected to the common firewall ground? It seems to me that you should do > that to eliminate other possibilities of ground loops. > > > I'm going to clarify Z-15 in next revision . . . > you're correct that running a ground from > panel ground to firewall ground is redundant in a metal > airplane. It doesn't hurt anything as long as all > the potential victims (avionics and instruments) > ground at the single point panel ground. No > potentially antagonist loops are created by adding > a wire to the firewall . . . it's just redundant. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:08:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs
    From: William Mills <wtrooper@gmail.com>
    V2VsbCBzYWlkIENoYXJsaWUuCgpEbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZQoKQmlsbAoKClNlbnQgdmlhIHRoZSBT YW1zdW5nIEdhbGF4eSBOb3Rlwq4gSUksIGFuIEFUJlQgNEcgTFRFIHNtYXJ0cGhvbmUKCjxkaXY+ LS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+RnJvbTogQ2hhcmxp ZSBFbmdsYW5kIDxjZWVuZ2xhbmQ3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5EYXRlOjAxLzEwLzIw MTYgIDc6MzAgQU0gIChHTVQtMDg6MDApIDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VG86IGFlcm9lbGVjdHJpYy1saXN0 QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5TdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxpc3Q6 IEdyb3VuZGluZyBUYWJzIDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+CjwvZGl2PlRoZXJlJ3MgcHJvYmFibHkgc29tZSB1 c2VmdWwgaW5mbyB0aGVyZSwgYnV0IGtlZXAgeW91ciBzYWx0IHNoYWtlciBoYW5keS4KCkNoYXJs aWUKCk9uIDEvMTAvMjAxNiA5OjAzIEFNLCBUcmVudCBIZWlkdGtlIHdyb3RlOgpNYXJ2aW4sCllv dSBtaWdodCBmaW5kIGEgZ29vZCBleHBsYW5hdGlvbiBhbmQgdGlwcyBpbiB0aGUgV2lyaW5nIEZv ciBTbWFydCBQZW9wbGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgaW5jbHVkZWQgYXMgYSBsaW5rIGhlcmUuICAgaHR0cDov L3d3dy5tZXlldHRlLnVzL2FpcmNyYWZ0X3dpcmluZzEyanVseTIwMDgucGRmCkkgZm91bmQgaXQg dmVyeSB1c2VmdWwgd2hlbiB3aXJpbmcgbXkgcGxhbmUuICBJZiBJIGRpZCBpdC9yZWFkIGl0IHJp Z2h0LCB0aGUgYW5zd2VyIHRvIHlvdXIgcXVlc3Rpb24gaXMgdG8gaXNvbGF0ZSB0aGUgZ3JvdW5k aW5nIGJ1c3MgYW5kIHRha2UgYSBsZWFkIGJhY2sgdG8gdGhlIG1haW4gYmF0dGVyeSBhbmQvb3Ig YmF0dGVyeSBidXNzLgpKdXN0IG15IHR3byBjZW50c+KApi4uClRyZW50CiAKRnJvbTogb3duZXIt YWVyb2VsZWN0cmljLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1hZXJv ZWxlY3RyaWMtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEguIE1hcnZp biBIYXVnaHQKU2VudDogU2F0dXJkYXksIEphbnVhcnkgMDksIDIwMTYgMjo1NyBQTQpUbzogYWVy b2VsZWN0cmljLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxp c3Q6IEdyb3VuZGluZyBUYWJzCiAKQm9iIC0gIEkgdGhpbmsgeW91IGFuc3dlcmVkIG9ubHkgaGFs ZiB0aGUgcXVlc3Rpb24uICBJcyBpdCBiZXR0ZXIgdG8gaXNvbGF0ZSB0aGUgZ3JvdW5kaW5nIGJ1 c3MsIGFuZCBydW4gYSBkZWRpY2F0ZWQgZ3JvdW5kIGJhY2sgdG8gdGhlIGZpcmV3YWxsIGdyb3Vu ZCwgb3IgbW91bnQgdGhlIGdyb3VuZCBidXNzIHRvIHRoZSBhaXJmcmFtZSwgYW5kIG5vdCBydW4g YSB3aXJlIGJhY2sgdG8gdG8gdGhlIGZpcmV3YWxsIGdyb3VuZD8gIEluIGEgbWV0YWwgYWlycGxh bmUuICBBcmUgeW91IG1vcmUgYXB0IHRvIGhhdmUgcG9zc2libGUgZ3JvdW5kIGxvb3BzIGlmIHlv dSBtb3VudCB0aGUgYnVzcyB0byB0aGUgYWlyZnJhbWUgdGhhbiB5b3Ugd291bGQgaXNvbGF0aW5n IGl0IGZyb20gdGhlIGFpcmZyYW1lIGFuZCBydW5uaW5nIHRoZSBncm91bmQgd2lyZSBiYWNrIHRv IHRoZSBmaXJld2FsbCBncm91bmQ/ICAKIApNLiBIYXVnaHQKIAogCk9uIEphbiA5LCAyMDE2LCBh dCAzOjE0IFBNLCBSb2JlcnQgTC4gTnVja29sbHMsIElJSSA8bnVja29sbHMuYm9iQGFlcm9lbGVj dHJpYy5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgogCkF0IDAyOjI4IFBNIDEvOS8yMDE2LCB5b3Ugd3JvdGU6CgpCb2Is CgpXaGVuIGFub3RoZXIgwpNncm91bmRpbmcgYnVzwpQgaXMgdXNlZCwgbGlrZSBhbiBhdmlvbmlj cyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBncm91bmQgYnVzIG9yIGEgwpNwYW5lbMKUIGdyb3VuZCBidXMs IGlzIGl0IG5lY2Vzc2FyeSB0byAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBpc29sYXRlL2lzb2xhdGUgdGhh dCBncm91bmQgYnVzIGZyb20gdGhlIMKTbG9jYWzClCBncm91bmQsIG9yIG90aGVyIG1ldGFsIGZy YW1lIG9uIHRoZSBhaXJjcmFmdCwgYmVmb3JlIGl0IGlzIGNvbm5lY3RlZCB0byB0aGUgY29tbW9u IGZpcmV3YWxsIGdyb3VuZD8gIEl0IHNlZW1zIHRvIG1lIHRoYXQgeW91IHNob3VsZCBkbyB0aGF0 IHRvIGVsaW1pbmF0ZSBvdGhlciBwb3NzaWJpbGl0aWVzIG9mIGdyb3VuZCBsb29wcy4KCiAgIEkn bSBnb2luZyB0byBjbGFyaWZ5IFotMTUgaW4gbmV4dCByZXZpc2lvbiAuIC4gLgogICB5b3UncmUg Y29ycmVjdCB0aGF0IHJ1bm5pbmcgYSBncm91bmQgZnJvbQogICBwYW5lbCBncm91bmQgdG8gZmly ZXdhbGwgZ3JvdW5kIGlzIHJlZHVuZGFudCBpbiBhIG1ldGFsCiAgIGFpcnBsYW5lLiBJdCBkb2Vz bid0IGh1cnQgYW55dGhpbmcgYXMgbG9uZyBhcyBhbGwKICAgdGhlIHBvdGVudGlhbCB2aWN0aW1z IChhdmlvbmljcyBhbmQgaW5zdHJ1bWVudHMpCiAgIGdyb3VuZCBhdCB0aGUgc2luZ2xlIHBvaW50 IHBhbmVsIGdyb3VuZC4gTm8KICAgcG90ZW50aWFsbHkgYW50YWdvbmlzdCBsb29wcyBhcmUgY3Jl YXRlZCBieSBhZGRpbmcKICAgYSB3aXJlIHRvIHRoZSBmaXJld2FsbCAuIC4gLiBpdCdzIGp1c3Qg cmVkdW5kYW50LgoKCgogIEJvYiAuIC4gLgogCgo


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:35:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs
    From: "H. Marvin Haught Jr. " <handainc@madisoncounty.net>
    Okay.....I think I finally understand. I was making it a lot more complex that it really is, at least for a metal airframe. The airframe itself is a good basic ground for all components as long as you have good grounding points for the firewall/airframe/engine, and good common airframe ground for panel components. So for wing tip mounted strobes, the airframe ground is sufficient? No need to run a ground wire back to the firewall ground to avoid interference? M. Haught On 1/10/2016 10:45 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 03:57 PM 1/9/2016, you wrote: >> Bob - I think you answered only half the question. Is it better to >> isolate the grounding buss, and run a dedicated ground back to the >> firewall ground, or mount the ground buss to the airframe, and not >> run a wire back to to the firewall ground? > > In the metal airplane, grounding all panel mounted > systems to panel structure is sufficient . . . no > 'extension' wire to the firewall is useful . . . nor > is it a potential 'loop hazard'. > >> In a metal airplane. Are you more apt to have possible ground loops >> if you mount the buss to the airframe than you would isolating it >> from the airframe and running the ground wire back to the firewall >> ground? > > No . . . the 'loop' exists when a potential > antagonist (alternator, battery charging > currents, flap motors, strobe supplies, etc) > SHARES a grounding pathway with the low voltage > signals of a potential victim (headphones, microphones, > intercoms, remote compass sensors, etc). > > Tie all potential victims to ground at one place > local to the panel . . . after that, signal integrity > is no longer 'at risk' no matter how and where > you ground all other things, > > Bob . . . > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:38:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Returned Mail: Re: Grounding Tabs
    From: Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330@gmail.com>
    I have read Bob's reply. It raises another question. If I were to use B&C forest of tabs to ground everything. Flap motor , P. Heat, strobes, interior lights and all the panel stuff like coms, audio panel etc. would that cause a ground loop. Should you ground those Items directly to the airframe instead of the tabs. I will re read the ground loop explanation aagin, but I think my confusion exists on what the path is. sorry I started this but I just want to get it correct Thanks Mike On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 1:00 PM, <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> wrote: > The following message from Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330@gmail.com> was > not authorized for entry in the Matronics Email Lists forum. > > Posts are only allowed from users with permission to post in the forum. > > > Visit this URL to register: http://forums.matronics.com//index.php > > From: Michael Lazarowicz <tllaz330@gmail.com> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs > **************************************** > > Thanks so much for the link Trent. It was very helpful. I am starting t o > learn that some of this stuff is a lot of personal preference, but the > basic rules are all the same. After all of this I will ground everything > to a singe point (forest of tabs) that is directly connected to the Batte ry > Ground, Firewall and engine ground strap. My only real issue was, becaus e > of the RV8 forward baggage location, is how to get all the grounds to the > Brass bolt on the firewall and how large the connecting wire should be. A > # 6 wire will do the trick. It is basically a all aircraft version of > Bob's D-sub avionics grounding set up for the Avionics items. I would > much rather have all the Tabs right on the back side of the firewall, but > in the RV8 it just makes for a lot of extra long grounding wires routed i n > a inconvenient place. > > I will try and post some photos of my " final solution" > > > Thanks again > > Mike > > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Trent Heidtke <theidtke@cox.net> wrote: > > > Marvin, > > > > You might find a good explanation and tips in the Wiring For Smart Peop le > > document included as a link here. > > http://www.meyette.us/aircraft_wiring12july2008.pdf > > > > I found it very useful when wiring my plane. If I did it/read it right , > > the answer to your question is to isolate the grounding buss and take a > > lead back to the main battery and/or battery buss. > > > > Just my two cents.. > > > > Trent > > > > > > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *H. Marvin > > Haught > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 09, 2016 2:57 PM > > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: Grounding Tabs > > > > > > > > Bob - I think you answered only half the question. Is it better to > > isolate the grounding buss, and run a dedicated ground back to the > firewall > > ground, or mount the ground buss to the airframe, and not run a wire ba ck > > to to the firewall ground? In a metal airplane. Are you more apt to > have > > possible ground loops if you mount the buss to the airframe than you > would > > isolating it from the airframe and running the ground wire back to the > > firewall ground? > > > > > > > > M. Haught > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > At 02:28 PM 1/9/2016, you wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > When another =9Cgrounding bus=9D is used, like an avionics ground bus or a > > =9Cpanel=9D ground bus, is it necessary to isolate/isolate that ground bus > from > > the =9Clocal=9D ground, or other metal frame on the aircraf t, before it is > > connected to the common firewall ground? It seems to me that you shoul d > do > > that to eliminate other possibilities of ground loops. > > > > > > I'm going to clarify Z-15 in next revision . . . > > you're correct that running a ground from > > panel ground to firewall ground is redundant in a metal > > airplane. It doesn't hurt anything as long as all > > the potential victims (avionics and instruments) > > ground at the single point panel ground. No > > potentially antagonist loops are created by adding > > a wire to the firewall . . . it's just redundant. > > > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:50:09 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Grounding Tabs
    At 12:22 PM 1/10/2016, you wrote: >Okay.....I think I finally understand. I was making it a lot more >complex that it really is, at least for a metal airframe. The >airframe itself is a good basic ground for all components as long as >you have good grounding points for the firewall/airframe/engine, and >good common airframe ground for panel components. So for wing tip >mounted strobes, the airframe ground is sufficient? No need to run >a ground wire back to the firewall ground to avoid interference? No Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:57:02 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Returned Mail: Re: Grounding Tabs
    At 04:35 PM 1/10/2016, you wrote: >I have read Bob's reply.=C2 It raises another >question.=C2 If I were to use B&C forest of tabs >to ground everything.=C2 Flap motor , P. >Heat,=C2 strobes, interior lights and all the >panel stuff like coms, audio panel etc.=C2 would that cause a ground loop. No . . . the "ideal" single point ground philosophy says take EVERYTHING to one place . . . except for the simplest of small airplanes, this is impractical. As shown in the Z-15 figures, collect all panel grounds (potential victims) to one place, all airframe grounds to firewall as practical . . . or ground locally as convenience dictates. For plastic airplanes, then -A- you DO gather airframe grounds to the firewall and -B- take an extension wire from the panel ground down to the firewall. Bob . . .




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